How to validate without alienating?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My question feels simple but the answer seems to be a minefield. My situation is different than many here as I am a father with custody. My dilemma lies in my children coming to me confused and trying to describe their mothers abuse and confusing behavior. I've tried to explain to them without labeling their mother as what she is but no matter how I put it she screams PAS. My 15 year old daughter claims to hate her mother and doesn't want to visit her but goes to shield her 10 year old brother as she puts it. Over the holidays they stood up to their mother and when she got verbally abusive they confronted her with her behavior. (Thank heaven no violence ). All they got back was denial and blame shifting back to me. After the kids came home the smear campaign kicked back into high gear and now I feel like I have possibly made the kids not like her.

The main question is how do you tell your children whom you know are on the right track not to worry about it. I don't want them growing up to think this behavior is normal and I  don't want to have to defend myself, possibly in court.

[lost not dead]

My question feels simple but the answer seems to be a minefield. My situation is different than many here as I am a father with custody. My dilemma lies in my children coming to me confused and trying to describe their mothers abuse and confusing behavior. I've tried to explain to them without labeling their mother as what she is but no matter how I put it she screams PAS. My 15 year old daughter claims to hate her mother and doesn't want to visit her but goes to shield her 10 year old brother as she puts it. Over the holidays they stood up to their mother and when she got verbally abusive they confronted her with her behavior. (Thank heaven no violence ). All they got back was denial and blame shifting back to me. After the kids came home the smear campaign kicked back into high gear and now I feel like I have possibly made the kids not like her.

The main question is how do you tell your children whom you know are on the right track not to worry about it. I don't want them growing up to think this behavior is normal and I  don't want to have to defend myself, possibly in court.

[SlyQQ]

Sought have been in same situation sent them along to a therapist to talk about the problems with there mum they can say what they want be understood an no direct repercussions for you

[Turkish]

lnd,

How much custody do you have? Are you giving your exW more than is stated in the stipulation?

That you are concerned about you engaging in PAS is valid, especially if it comes to court. There is nothing wrong with validating your children's feelings, however, especially those of D15 who is approaching adulthood. You don't have to tell her that she has to love her mother, for instance, just because she's her mother, or even imply it. How read up are you on the validation techniques here? They tend to work on anybody, not just pwBPD.

[Nope]

I've found a good T is the best approach. They can tell the T what they thought was confusing and what they are feeling and the T can openly agree with their perceptions. So then there is a professional third party with no reason to alienate their mom whom is saying that their mom's behavior is not normal. So the kids get the healthy messages and you aren't blamed.

I went in to my SD11's session a few weeks ago to help her start the conversation. Her mom had really upset her and she came to DH annd I about it. So in front of the T I brought up what she told me about it and the T did a great job of talking to her about how some parents have certain problems within themselves that make it so they can't be there for their kids because they are too stuck feeling their own feelings.

[livednlearned]

After the kids came home the smear campaign kicked back into high gear and now I feel like I have possibly made the kids not like her.

The main question is how do you tell your children whom you know are on the right track not to worry about it. I don't want them growing up to think this behavior is normal and I  don't want to have to defend myself, possibly in court.

There is a really, really good chance that your kids don't like your ex because she is verbally abusive and mentally ill, not because you validate them. Validating how they feel is not going to make them feel something they don't feel, it's going to make them feel that you get how they feel. What are you saying to your kids when they talk about what happens at mom's? Maybe we can help see if there are some phrases that will validate them without adding fuel to their anger. Also, 15 can be a really hard time for girls. Your D has the added challenges of a parent who is mentally ill. She may need some help sorting through grief and other difficult feelings under that anger -- usually anger is a secondary emotion. If we don't deal with that when we're young, it snowballs and creates all kinds of problems in intimate relationships later in life.

I'm guessing when you say that you don't want to defend yourself, you mean to false allegations of parental alienation? It's probably worth documenting everything that happens. Keep a journal about how your kids seem after they've been at their moms, the smear campaign.

There are also some good resources about parental alienation, including an article about the legal definitions for it. And then consult with an attorney -- you don't have to retain one, just pay $100-$200 for 30 min to ask what you can do to protect yourself. Dealing with Parental Alienation: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331467#msg1331467

Therapy for the kids is a great idea. If your ex won't agree, you can contact the school counselor or family counselor and ask them for recommendations in the community, and then just take the kids. I have never heard of a case here where a judge disagrees with therapy for kids, even when both parents are supposed to be involved. If your D15 decides she doesn't want to go to her mom's, and you take her to see a T about that, it will be hard to prove that there is any PA going on.

Also, it's telling that your D feels so protective of her little brother. In my family, it was as though my brother and I were pitted against each, which is apparently common in families with PDs. Your D is allying with her brother, and that's a good sign.