She Got Engaged, Now Things Change Again

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

... .after I was all settled in.

Not just to a new guy, but her affair partner. Last fall and winter, she was emotionally distant a lot and neglectful of S4 and D2. Since I'm the one to most likely alienate, I've been hyperviligant of myself to not do so. I can't help it if she auto-alienates: "no wonder there like you more than me," said as I was playing around with them last spring as we got out of the car on a school research trip for S4. She said this in front of them.

Her other Parentifying behaviors aside, it's been largely drama free. I get the sense that she barely looked at the custody stipulation I served her with, though she did focus on the child support at the end.

She introduced the kids to him right after she moved out last Feb. Within 3 months, it caused major emotional problems in that the kids didn't want to go home to her, and S4 was even being aggressive. I guessed and called her out on it, the response being, "I know I made a mistake," with about the same tone applicable to forgetting to pick up the dry cleaning (my subjective opinion, of course). She backed off for a little bit, but kept spending as much time as she could with all of them together.

I know that this is a tough situation if it were a "normal" remarriage. I've read some things out of Divorce Poison and Putting Children First, but what's talked about there doesn't really parallel this specific situation.

She's been overseas for the past 9 days, and I return the kids to her in two days, giving her one of my days of the 3-2-2-3 schedule. D2 only asked to call her mom once. We did and left a message. She called through facebook to her older brother on NYE, 3 days after she left. Sent me an email saying her phone didn't work. I refused her last minute Skype request. I told her we would be at her parents' house this past Sat, a good time to call, but she didn't. I found out a few days ago that she posted to facebook that she was engaged. Probably very romantic on NYE I imagine.

I haven't alienated the Homewrecker, even when my kids occasionally mention his name. Now what? Do I lie down completely like a dog now that he's family? Haven't met him yet, but it's inevitable soon. Her family throws big bd parties for the kids. This sickens me so much that if he starts coming, I may not. Of course, it's a huge step between engagement, living together, and marriage. Hijinks could ensue. She told me he noticed her anger issues early on. If she can keep them under enough control, and if he can deal with them, then more power to him. I did it for the better part of six years. Kids made it so much worse, and despite the fact that I know she loves them (even if a bit in an objectified manner), they are targets too.

Maybe I already know what I need to do:

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/schlepping-through-heartbreak/201009/joint-custody-your-ex-and-the-affair-partner

[Turkish]

... .after I was all settled in.

Not just to a new guy, but her affair partner. Last fall and winter, she was emotionally distant a lot and neglectful of S4 and D2. Since I'm the one to most likely alienate, I've been hyperviligant of myself to not do so. I can't help it if she auto-alienates: "no wonder there like you more than me," said as I was playing around with them last spring as we got out of the car on a school research trip for S4. She said this in front of them.

Her other Parentifying behaviors aside, it's been largely drama free. I get the sense that she barely looked at the custody stipulation I served her with, though she did focus on the child support at the end.

She introduced the kids to him right after she moved out last Feb. Within 3 months, it caused major emotional problems in that the kids didn't want to go home to her, and S4 was even being aggressive. I guessed and called her out on it, the response being, "I know I made a mistake," with about the same tone applicable to forgetting to pick up the dry cleaning (my subjective opinion, of course). She backed off for a little bit, but kept spending as much time as she could with all of them together.

I know that this is a tough situation if it were a "normal" remarriage. I've read some things out of Divorce Poison and Putting Children First, but what's talked about there doesn't really parallel this specific situation.

She's been overseas for the past 9 days, and I return the kids to her in two days, giving her one of my days of the 3-2-2-3 schedule. D2 only asked to call her mom once. We did and left a message. She called through facebook to her older brother on NYE, 3 days after she left. Sent me an email saying her phone didn't work. I refused her last minute Skype request. I told her we would be at her parents' house this past Sat, a good time to call, but she didn't. I found out a few days ago that she posted to facebook that she was engaged. Probably very romantic on NYE I imagine.

I haven't alienated the Homewrecker, even when my kids occasionally mention his name. Now what? Do I lie down completely like a dog now that he's family? Haven't met him yet, but it's inevitable soon. Her family throws big bd parties for the kids. This sickens me so much that if he starts coming, I may not. Of course, it's a huge step between engagement, living together, and marriage. Hijinks could ensue. She told me he noticed her anger issues early on. If she can keep them under enough control, and if he can deal with them, then more power to him. I did it for the better part of six years. Kids made it so much worse, and despite the fact that I know she loves them (even if a bit in an objectified manner), they are targets too.

Maybe I already know what I need to do:

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/schlepping-through-heartbreak/201009/joint-custody-your-ex-and-the-affair-partner

[Aussie JJ]

Turkish,

Argh, all I can say is it is horrible.  My son spends more time with her BF than me.  She plays like I am dumb and rubs it in my face.  Such a parasite. 

I have done two things that help me a huge amount.  I no longer tell him his mummy loves him.  That is her job, I don't think they love their kids Turkish.  I am sorry, someone who is unable to place the kids need for separation from these very issues and introduces them to the new BF so that they can feel good is placing their needs before the kids needs.  If anyone asks me I will never say my sons mother is a good mother.  She is a good person with a mental illness, how that effects her relationship with our son is for the professionals to decide.  Secondly for my son, I just go with, as long as your having fun it doesn't matter who it is with, as long as you feel safe. 

Remember BPD effects 'interpersonal relationships', kids are interpersonal.  She is getting validation from the kids, she isn't validating their feelings she is using them to feel good about herself.  End of the day, it is an abusive relationship, getting validation from an innocent child who is unable to understand while not giving any validation for the children's needs to be separated from these issues. 

Every time you feel like saying she does her best job.  Remind yourself she is neglecting and abusing your children by ignoring their needs. 

This is how I separate myself from it now. 


AJJ.

[livednlearned]

I haven't alienated the Homewrecker, even when my kids occasionally mention his name. Now what? Do I lie down completely like a dog now that he's family?

I don't think it's quite black or white like this, Turkish. You are understandably angry, and feel outrage. It feels like the two of them are kicking more sand in your face, a demeaning experience. More than likely, events will come up and you will have to check in with yourself at that moment to see how you feel. Like birthday parties, maybe you decide that this is her family, and the kids are attending a party with her side of the family, time to make that distinction. You may end up celebrating in your own way with the kids, a special tradition that doesn't involve that side of the family.

Or, you may decide you want to see what this guy is like, how he is with the kids. How he handles your ex. Some members on this board have found that the new partner helps stabilize things for the kids, and they get to a place where that is the most important thing.

It seems that you have to decide how involved in the extended family you want to be, because that puts you in difficult emotional situations over and over and over. More than many members here, you are still very involved in your ex's life. You often make this distinction, although sometimes I wonder if you minimize the anger you feel. It could be that your ex is not as "bad" as other BPD ex spouses on the boards, but like AussieJJ wrote, she is equally as invalidating.

Whatever you decide, it will probably not be a one-time thing where you never go to family events ever again. You will see how it feels when the time comes, and process this anger and come up with something that works for you.

Also, this:

She told me he noticed her anger issues early on.

He noticed her issues, yet proposed marriage anyway. He's in for a ride. 

[Turkish]

AJJ: i never told them that their mommy loves them. I was sick of lying so much when they'd ask "where's mommy?" Ok, that's melodramatic. It's part of the reason I stopped the nightly calls. It was bothering them. She told me a few months ago that she always told them what a great daddy I was, and how much I loved them. Part of this may be guilt, part of it may be approval seeking (triangulation), and part perhaps to see how I describe her to them. I used SET in an unfruitful attempt to say that while I appreciated it, she was telling them how to feel. I said if they're mad at me, then they're mad. If they love me than they do. If they miss me or not, then those are they're feelings, and that they need to feel them. As my mom used to tell me a lot, it was like talking to a brick wall. I'm glad you stopped. It's better for your son to validate however he feels, seperate from your feelings.

Though I have joint custody (and unofficially get them a little more), this whole thing pisses me off. Anyone but him and I really wouldn't care (I would still be vigilant though).

lnl: he has indeed done us a favor by stabilizing her, regardless of her neglect and parentfying behaviors. I'll decide about her family's events later, though those would only be our children's birthdays. One is coming up in 3 weeks. I had my secret squirrel check her FB profile,.and other than her older brother (BPD), none of the other siblngs or even her cousins liked her new status,.except for the two cousins who enabled her clubbing over a year ago. I never liked them anyway. I heard all sorts of gossip about almost everybody. It's a huge, tight-knight family (filled with cheaters). Am I focused too much on them? Maybe. Her mom still watches our kids. I can't cut everybody off cold turkey, but I can detach more. Blood in, blood out.

The kids are so young. They love the parties, but I'm more of the traveling, outdoorsey type. The  kids love that. I expect to be FOGed, as she does, but that takes two to engage. I'm sure she will tell the kids in the wrong way, as I really think she is invalidating. She may even ask me for advice. I think it may go worse with D2, who is extremely attached to me.

She gets back in two days. I have an appointment with the T on Monday, and I'm going out of town this weekend to spend time with a buddy so I won't see her at church. She only comes on her Sundays to bring the kids. My plan to not see her for a whole month is stymied because I promised her sister that I would bring the kids to her son's first bd party the following weekend. She is visiting from out of state. I'll update soon... .

[milo1967]

I've gone through the same experience. Very very hard. I'm sorry.

"She introduced the kids to him right after she moved out last Feb. Within 3 months, it caused major emotional problems in that the kids didn't want to go home to her, and S4 was even being aggressive."

My XW moved in with her Homewrecker last January, several months before our divorce was final. I've gone through a year of hell, with my son refusing to go there, hating the other man, being aggressive, the whole thing. I'm glad to say that things have settled down in the last month or so. I don't know what brought about the change. It is unlikely their BPD mother has changed, so maybe her new man has? In any case, again, always remember: never talk negatively about their mom even if she does about you. (She tells our children I am a horrible father. I just ask my kids, ":)o you believe that's true?" Of course they say no, and I leave it at that.)

Again, so sorry you're experiencing this. You're not alone and I do hope your situation improves.

[ForeverDad]

Well, if you do meet up with him, realize that he may be the you of six years ago, somewhat clueless of the ramifications of it all.  If he ever pulls you to the side and invites your comments, it's probably not good to say "don't have kids" since he may blurt it out to her at some later time.  However, you could say "if you ever have children you will face what I faced and it sure wasn't fun, simple or cheap."

Some would say, don't tell him anything, he won't listen and it could boomerang on you.  But if that time ever comes, use your best judgement whether to say something or not.

[Turkish]

Well, if you do meet up with him, realize that he may be the you of six years ago, somewhat clueless of the ramifications of it all.  If he ever pulls you to the side and invites your comments, it's probably not good to say "don't have kids" since he may blurt it out to her at some later time.  However, you could say "if you ever have children you will face what I faced and it sure wasn't fun, simple or cheap."

Some would say, don't tell him anything, he won't listen and it could boomerang on you.  But if that time ever comes, use your best judgement whether to say something or not.

She fixed herself to never have kids after D2. It's irreversible. She turns 33 soon. He's 25 (barely), and will never have kids of his own as long as he is with her.

She emailed me today asking to talk, preferably without the kids and in person. I know she wants to tell me she got engaged. I'm still playing dumb, since the email was written firstly to update me on D2's potty training, based upon my email pass-down to her yesterday.

Someone here advised me to not meet, and play disinterested (what I call the "Joe Carver Attitude": bland, boring, disinterested). I think I might email back, "if you want to meet to tell me about the kids' new step-dad, then a face-to-face isn't necessary. Good luck with that."

She still looks up to me in some weird way, and I do keep taking lead on kid-related things, strangely. I feel I'm being triangulated in a subtle way. The thing now is to all but divorce myself from her family, since I don't feel I can sit there at family functions with him, even for the big parties that her family throws for the kids. Any other guy? Sure, why not. Life goes on. What she's doing is unprecedented in her very large family, even with multiple cheaters. I won't be part of it, nor part of the FOG that they do to each other. She tried to get me to bring the kids to her family's house when she was gone for 11 days so her mom could take the kids out. I said we'd be traveling, going to see my family and friends, which we did. I'm not responsible for someone else's feelings. Not her, not her mom (whom I like, and my Ex says that her mom still loves me, which I think is true). I did stop by three afternoons to spend time there over the 11 days, however. The kids do like their uncles and grandma.

[pessim-optimist]

I can understand your anger Turkish and the heartbreak that goes along with the situation... .

We are dealing with a different situation but similar in that the ex that has destroyed the family many years ago and has persistently worked to alienate the kids (and succeeded with one) is now getting remarried.

So, the husband-to-be is now also going to be the grandpa to the 1.5 yo grandson that my husband will most likely never get to meet... .

This is all still very fresh and you are raw. Give yourself some time to feel your feelings and to work through them before you make long term decisions.

Not that it will somehow become easy with time. But you will gain perspective and you will be dealing with everything from a more centered place.

The thing now is to all but divorce myself from her family, since I don't feel I can sit there at family functions with him, even for the big parties that her family throws for the kids. Any other guy? Sure, why not. Life goes on.

I completely understand if you opt to not be at the b-day party that's coming up. You may even choose to not be at any party the new guy will be at in the future. It doesn't mean that you need to "all but divorce yourself" from her side of the family that likes you, though. There will be other opportunities for your kids to enjoy having you and their grandparents/uncles together... .

And you know what? BPD is unpredictable. She may break up with him before they get married. Or they may go ahead with the marriage and that will not last. You just never know.

Take it a day at a time and make decisions that allow you to keep your dignity in the short run, decisions that you will not regret in the long run. All the best, Turkish - it's not an easy situation.