My saga continues...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi All,

I haven't been on these boards for a very long time. Thankfully. But, here I am again.

Context. Was with my ex for 7 years. Over the past three years, there would be random contact, always initiated by her. The conversation always led to how much we missed each other, how we would never find anyone who understands each other like we do, and blah blah blah. The conversations would always lead me to ask her what her intentions where. They always led to her just wanting to be close friends. I was in a relationship. So was she. I would tell her that what she was asking of me was too much and I didn't feel comfortable. That never went well.

My most current girlfriend left me mostly because these goings on hurt her. I accept my responsibility in that. I took it as a sign that I wasn't really happy with her anyways or that I wasn't ready to be in a relationship. The break up hasn't been that bad. My uBPD ex's boyfriend left her too. Not sure why. According to her, he just left out of the blue. Packed up his bags and moved to another continent.

Now. Here's where I'm at. After my last GF left, I had a few hard weeks. But, basically felt OK with everything. Was happy to be single. Excited about my work. With my BPD ex, she had sent me an email telling me she wanted some advice about work. I let it sit for a few weeks and then emailed her back with some advice. Wished her well. She freaked out on me. Telling me it was really weird that I did that. I told her OK, never mind, carry on. She called me a few days later and was a total mess. Telling me all this stuff about being so lost and not knowing what to do, what her meaning was on this planet, and on and on. She told me all this stuff about her childhood and how she was sorry she hurt me and that she didn't recognize it at the time but knew now that she drove me away. She hoped that she could see me.

Me, being the idiot that I clearly am, said, OK. Saw her for dinner when I was in town on business. We had a great time. Super fun. I was happy to see her. Nothing more than that. She seemed to be a mess. I was doing great. Gave her a big hug, pinched her cheek and told her I really enjoyed seeing her. That was that.

She emailed me the next day saying how great it was to see me. Wanted to do it again. Hoped we could go on a hike or do something together. I told her OK. But as I live out of town, would leave it to her to let me know what she was comfortable with and to invite me to do something and take the step. She invited me to go to a conference that she was helping host, one that I would have loved to be at. I told her that I didn't think that would be a good idea. She agreed. But, I told her I was down for anything else. Maybe plan to come down and go for a hike or dinner again. She invited me to New York for a weekend. I said OK. Organized the whole thing. Got tickets to some broadway shows, planned the couple of days together so that we would be busy. Then she went all squirlly on me. Kept telling me she didn't want me to do anything nice for her. Totally freaking out. I told her OK. She was the one who invited me and that I didn't have to do this. Was happy to just go to New York on my own. She said no. That we needed to have clear boundaries and just be friends. I said of course.

She arrived in New York. I was already there. She came into my room (I booked separate rooms for us) and she just started sobbing. All I did was ask her how she was (nothing heavy). Just hey, how you doing? Good to see you! She started sobbing her eyes out for an hour, telling me she didn't know who she was, what her meaning on the planet was and on and on. Told me she didn't want to talk about it anymore after an hour. Got her stuff and went to her room. We then spent the next two days together 14 hours a day doing stuff. Having fun. Nothing heavy. The last day together, I asked her if we could talk about where we were at and what we were doing. She freaked out. Cried to 5 minutes and left the room. Said she didn't want to talk about it. I said OK but that for me to move forward in any direction, I needed to have to a conversation at some point. She said no. Left. And then we hung out around Brooklyn for the day. She left New York. I stayed for business.

Sorry for the long post... .Couple days later, she asked me when I was in DC next. I told her this past week. She said great. Let's hang out. I said OK. Went out for dinner. Had a great time. She invited me back to her place and we talked until 2am. Had a great time. I went back to my hotel. Then, she asked me if we could hang out over the weekend (I didn't book a flight back at that point). I said sure. She told me that I could crash on her futon if I needed a place to say. I told her that was nice but that would rather stay at a hotel. We hung out the whole next day. Went for a hike. Went to a museum. And on and on. As she was driving me to the airport, I told her that I would like to have a conversation at some point about what we are doing, where we are going, and what the expectations were. She told me no. I told her that we could build a relationship together, that I wasn't really invested in any outcome, but couldn't do it alone. I needed to know what her expectations where and what mine where to negotiate a safe place. She told me that she just wanted to be friends but best friends. And that she didn't want to talk about it any further. I told her that I couldn't really be the kind of best friend she was looking for. That it was too hard for me. That hanging out all the time and spending days and days together and organizing trips together was not really sustainable for me. At some point, either her or I would be in another relationship and that would have to shift everything. And given all this, if she wanted a sustainable friendship and that was truly all she wanted, that I could offer her a friendship but that I couldn't be her best friend. I couldn't hang out with her all the time. I couldn't go on trips with her all the time, that my investment would be to establish a good long term friendship and that would mean having a phone call every few weeks, having lunch or coffee to catch up when I was in town. That I felt comfortable with that.

She didn't like that. She wants to be best friends. She wants a close, emotionally close, best friendship. She wants to do trips together and hang out all the time when I'm in town. That's what she wants. But she doesn't want to talk about it. And then flipped out at me that I wanted to talk about. Told me she felt ambushed by my talking about what makes sense for me.

It sucks. Now I feel like a complete idiot. We ended up talking last night for 2 hours. She kept telling me what she wanted and I kept trying to explain that I couldn't do that but kept trying to reiterate what I was comfortable doing. If she wanted to work towards re-establishing a relationship and spending time to do that, I could do that. If she wanted to be friends, I could do that and what my boundaries around that would be. She wanted a middle ground. Where we were super close and best friends. And that's what we would work towards.

I just can't do it. I really can't. I guess I still love this person. I can't be best friends with her. It would kill me. Completely destroy me. I don't want to see her in love with someone else. I don't want to hear about her dating escapades. Why would I want that. I don't get it.

What she did tell me was that we could be best friends for a year or two and then see if we are still single and see where we are at. But that the main pre-condition for us being together was being best friends for a prolonged period of time. But that there are no guarantees.

[willy45]

Hi All,

I haven't been on these boards for a very long time. Thankfully. But, here I am again.

Context. Was with my ex for 7 years. Over the past three years, there would be random contact, always initiated by her. The conversation always led to how much we missed each other, how we would never find anyone who understands each other like we do, and blah blah blah. The conversations would always lead me to ask her what her intentions where. They always led to her just wanting to be close friends. I was in a relationship. So was she. I would tell her that what she was asking of me was too much and I didn't feel comfortable. That never went well.

My most current girlfriend left me mostly because these goings on hurt her. I accept my responsibility in that. I took it as a sign that I wasn't really happy with her anyways or that I wasn't ready to be in a relationship. The break up hasn't been that bad. My uBPD ex's boyfriend left her too. Not sure why. According to her, he just left out of the blue. Packed up his bags and moved to another continent.

Now. Here's where I'm at. After my last GF left, I had a few hard weeks. But, basically felt OK with everything. Was happy to be single. Excited about my work. With my BPD ex, she had sent me an email telling me she wanted some advice about work. I let it sit for a few weeks and then emailed her back with some advice. Wished her well. She freaked out on me. Telling me it was really weird that I did that. I told her OK, never mind, carry on. She called me a few days later and was a total mess. Telling me all this stuff about being so lost and not knowing what to do, what her meaning was on this planet, and on and on. She told me all this stuff about her childhood and how she was sorry she hurt me and that she didn't recognize it at the time but knew now that she drove me away. She hoped that she could see me.

Me, being the idiot that I clearly am, said, OK. Saw her for dinner when I was in town on business. We had a great time. Super fun. I was happy to see her. Nothing more than that. She seemed to be a mess. I was doing great. Gave her a big hug, pinched her cheek and told her I really enjoyed seeing her. That was that.

She emailed me the next day saying how great it was to see me. Wanted to do it again. Hoped we could go on a hike or do something together. I told her OK. But as I live out of town, would leave it to her to let me know what she was comfortable with and to invite me to do something and take the step. She invited me to go to a conference that she was helping host, one that I would have loved to be at. I told her that I didn't think that would be a good idea. She agreed. But, I told her I was down for anything else. Maybe plan to come down and go for a hike or dinner again. She invited me to New York for a weekend. I said OK. Organized the whole thing. Got tickets to some broadway shows, planned the couple of days together so that we would be busy. Then she went all squirlly on me. Kept telling me she didn't want me to do anything nice for her. Totally freaking out. I told her OK. She was the one who invited me and that I didn't have to do this. Was happy to just go to New York on my own. She said no. That we needed to have clear boundaries and just be friends. I said of course.

She arrived in New York. I was already there. She came into my room (I booked separate rooms for us) and she just started sobbing. All I did was ask her how she was (nothing heavy). Just hey, how you doing? Good to see you! She started sobbing her eyes out for an hour, telling me she didn't know who she was, what her meaning on the planet was and on and on. Told me she didn't want to talk about it anymore after an hour. Got her stuff and went to her room. We then spent the next two days together 14 hours a day doing stuff. Having fun. Nothing heavy. The last day together, I asked her if we could talk about where we were at and what we were doing. She freaked out. Cried to 5 minutes and left the room. Said she didn't want to talk about it. I said OK but that for me to move forward in any direction, I needed to have to a conversation at some point. She said no. Left. And then we hung out around Brooklyn for the day. She left New York. I stayed for business.

Sorry for the long post... .Couple days later, she asked me when I was in DC next. I told her this past week. She said great. Let's hang out. I said OK. Went out for dinner. Had a great time. She invited me back to her place and we talked until 2am. Had a great time. I went back to my hotel. Then, she asked me if we could hang out over the weekend (I didn't book a flight back at that point). I said sure. She told me that I could crash on her futon if I needed a place to say. I told her that was nice but that would rather stay at a hotel. We hung out the whole next day. Went for a hike. Went to a museum. And on and on. As she was driving me to the airport, I told her that I would like to have a conversation at some point about what we are doing, where we are going, and what the expectations were. She told me no. I told her that we could build a relationship together, that I wasn't really invested in any outcome, but couldn't do it alone. I needed to know what her expectations where and what mine where to negotiate a safe place. She told me that she just wanted to be friends but best friends. And that she didn't want to talk about it any further. I told her that I couldn't really be the kind of best friend she was looking for. That it was too hard for me. That hanging out all the time and spending days and days together and organizing trips together was not really sustainable for me. At some point, either her or I would be in another relationship and that would have to shift everything. And given all this, if she wanted a sustainable friendship and that was truly all she wanted, that I could offer her a friendship but that I couldn't be her best friend. I couldn't hang out with her all the time. I couldn't go on trips with her all the time, that my investment would be to establish a good long term friendship and that would mean having a phone call every few weeks, having lunch or coffee to catch up when I was in town. That I felt comfortable with that.

She didn't like that. She wants to be best friends. She wants a close, emotionally close, best friendship. She wants to do trips together and hang out all the time when I'm in town. That's what she wants. But she doesn't want to talk about it. And then flipped out at me that I wanted to talk about. Told me she felt ambushed by my talking about what makes sense for me.

It sucks. Now I feel like a complete idiot. We ended up talking last night for 2 hours. She kept telling me what she wanted and I kept trying to explain that I couldn't do that but kept trying to reiterate what I was comfortable doing. If she wanted to work towards re-establishing a relationship and spending time to do that, I could do that. If she wanted to be friends, I could do that and what my boundaries around that would be. She wanted a middle ground. Where we were super close and best friends. And that's what we would work towards.

I just can't do it. I really can't. I guess I still love this person. I can't be best friends with her. It would kill me. Completely destroy me. I don't want to see her in love with someone else. I don't want to hear about her dating escapades. Why would I want that. I don't get it.

What she did tell me was that we could be best friends for a year or two and then see if we are still single and see where we are at. But that the main pre-condition for us being together was being best friends for a prolonged period of time. But that there are no guarantees.

[AwakenedOne]

  "What she did tell me was that we could be best friends for a year or two and then see if we are still single and see where we are at. But that the main pre-condition for us being together was being best friends for a prolonged period of time. But that there are no guarantees."



Hi Willy,

You love her. Nothing to be ashamed of for that. Still I hope you find a way out of this to avoid more heartache. She's got you now cast as the BFF or gay male friend or something like that.

If she's not purposely stringing you along, it's being done subconsciously. I have been told BS like that above quote before from a gf ex. I have read the same several times here also at this site by the pwBPD. Don't believe that man. The odds of this working out like you want are the same odds of you winning the lottery. Run bro, Run. Save your soul. It's a push pull going on here right? She needs to see you, you express interest and then she pushes you away then the cycle repeats and will do so for the next two years. Run man. I say this out of caring.

[Trog]

Although this hasnt happened to me, my ex would collect people and was very disappointed that her exes wouldn't stay as best friends. She didn't have any intention of getting back with them. She just wanted them in her pockets for later if needed.

Stop thinking about her, her story, her needs. Just think about you.

She has rejected your offer to be friends on your terms. That is unacceptable and a bit weird! Walk away.

[jhkbuzz]

Post b/u my ex also wanted some sort of gray, undefined "friendship", even though she said repeatedly as we were breaking up that she didn't rule out a r/s for us in the future.  I said the same. But being in the "gray" undefined zone was too painful for me after a few weeks, so I initiated a (texting) conversation about where things stood... .shared what I was thinking and asked her to do the same.  She responded that she didn't think adult r/s needed "rules" (what the heck?  where did that come from?  no one mentioned "rules"!) I asked her a clarifying question about "rules" because I was confused by that comment - but then she dropped out of the conversation without a word. We haven't spoken since.

I don't regret it at all.  It would have been the gray zone FOREVER. She seemed incapable of honest, adult communication.  It was frustrating and sad but I'm glad I'm out of it.

[myself]

Willy, maybe she's just being honest with you? That she wants to be close but not TOO close? That makes sense. Coming through what so many of us have with our exes, it can be easy to look at their later actions as if there's some ulterior motives at work (and very often there are), but sometimes it just is what it is. She may be sincerely reaching out and doing the best she can. What YOU need from a friendship with her is just as important as what she needs, and if the two of you don't match up, don't get in any deeper or more painfully. Continue being real with her, and yourself most of all. A friendship (or possible r/s) might work with her, might not. Good luck.

[willy45]

Thanks all. Yeah. I feel pretty stupid.

She just sent me a huge long email about how she is just trying to survive, how there is strife in every part of her life, how she is getting therapy to figure out her fatal flaw and how she feels like there is a catastrophe at every turn. She is a complete mess.

I knew this before. Guess was hopeful that was not the case. She's worst now than she was when I was with her. Despite all this, I'm loads better than when I was with her. Instead of being happy for me, she's jealous and tells me to stop talking about my life, that I talk about money and my work 'a lot'. Yet, its OK for her to talk about her work for hours non stop

If this is a friendship, its going to be very one sided. What would a relationship look like... .Terrible.

I told her I was not going to be her best friend, was not going to go on trips with her, was not going to organize my work travel around her. No way man. For 1-2 years? Why? Doesn't make sense.

[Inside]

I just can't do it. I really can't. I guess I still love this person. I can't be best friends with her. It would kill me. Completely destroy me. I don't want to see her in love with someone else. I don't want to hear about her dating escapades. Why would I want that. I don't get it. 

... .after seven recycles with my uBPDgf I’d concluded the same … and it’s why I finally walked out. 

The odds of this working out like you want are the same odds of you winning the lottery. Run bro, Run. Save your soul. It's a push pull going on here right? She needs to see you, you express interest and then she pushes you away then the cycle repeats and will do so for the next two years.

... .I think it’s better described as “Pull-Push” - and agree with AwakenedOne…  They know they can’t handle sustainable love or honorable relationships, so attempt to bounce between them in a perpetual ‘makeup love roulette.’  It’s as close to love as they get... .

Although this hasn't happened to me, my ex would collect people and was very disappointed that her exes wouldn't stay as best friends. She didn't have any intention of getting back with them. She just wanted them in her pockets for later if needed. …  She has rejected your offer to be friends on your terms. That is unacceptable and a bit weird! Walk away.

My BPx definitely maintained a stable of “Dear Friends” that would “blow through town” having to bring her flowers, gifts, or take her out for dinner, drinks or dancing... .  Of course she “had no romantic desires for them(!)” thus I was to be ‘just fine’ with such rhondavous…  Strange though how she and I instantly ended up in bed with no prior plans or intentions… 

PwBPD are unstable, untrustworthy and unreliable -- and it can rub off on us.  Move on; she’s not, nor never will be capable of living up to your standards, so don’t let you yourself drop to hers.  They are an investment in tragedy

[DreamGirl]

It's hard to detach from someone after a relationship. It just is. They are our everyday phone call. The person you wake up thinking about and the one whose face you see as you drift off to sleep.

She wants to have that comfort but without the relationship. It will work for her because you're a good guy who loves and cares about her and it feels good to be loved and cared for. It's quenching that loneliness and abandonment fear. I've been there and it kinda, sorta sucks.

I also think you are really in tune to knowing that it won't work for you. If she does find someone else and you are placed on a back burner, it will hurt a lot. A "best friend" understands when you get ditched for a new love interest. We're happy for our friend. We help babysit kids and listen to the endless gushing.

It doesn't work when we're secretly hoping that someone will have a revelation and love us back. It's OK that you say that. "I want more".

You're just not in a place to be her friend.  

[patientandclear]

Wow Willy. I played out a very similar story line, down to traveling to other cities together. My ex similarly wanted an intense close friendship with many attributes of a partnership, but no acknowledgement of that, and no commitment and no accountability. I can say you're right. It's too painful.

My ex started seeing someone else eventually after developing an ever-deepening connection with me. He seemed to think he could keep both going indefinitely. It was super painful and I had to pull way way back. That in turn hurt him and he basically told me to have a nice life. Yes he changed his mind 4 months later when he broke up with the other woman. But by then I'd broken free of the addiction at least partially, and with help from amazing friends including one from here, was able to say I didn't want to go back in unless things were really different. We shall see.

[Suzn]

Healthy friends don't expect you to be at their beck and call. Nor do they attempt to control future conversations by being dismissive of what's going on in your life. Is she friend material at all?

If she is working with a therapist it's probably best she work through that alone, whether she does or not is up to her. Just sayin... .it's an assumption on my part but still, her T probably wouldn't think it's a good idea to be paling around with her ex while trying to work through therapy.

I was wondering what would happen if you had decided to continue to be friends if 2 out of 3 times she wanted to make plans you already had plans. How well would that have gone over? It may be irrelevant now however something to ponder for future friendships.

[willy45]

Hey All,

Thanks. You have been super helpful. I'm feeling a lot better now.

I'm very clear now on what I can and can't do. Sent her an email thanking her for talking despite knowing how hard it is and that my wires got crossed (my fault!) and that I now have a clear picture of what this is and what this about. Told her I would adjust accordingly and to take care.

She sent me an email back apologizing for how confusing it all is and that she wasn't using me as a crutch (I never mentioned that) and how she considers me one of her closest friends and genuinely misses spending time with me and going on adventures with me. She then apologized for 'everything', whatever that means.

I sent her an email back saying that she was very clear with me, that it was me who got my wires crossed, that they were uncrossed and that I have adjusted.

I think that is the line I need to keep using and slowly back away from the door.

I know what she wants. She doesn't. She wants to have a boyfriend in me who isn't a boyfriend. She wants to be close to me (text 3 times a day, plan trips together, have me work my schedule around her when I'm in town), she wants to seduce me super close to the edge of being in a relationship and push me away if it ever gets too close. I get it now. The push pull. I see it for what it is. And I'm not interested.

Maybe she'll sort her ___ out with a therapist. Maybe not. She's seeing an art therapist. Maybe that will work. Who knows. All she told me is that they spend 20 minutes talking and then she paints stuff. The last thing she did was paint what she thought her mind was like (star in the background with black chaos in front) and what she would like to have her mind be like (blue). So, whenever she is about to go off the edge, she is supposed to meditate on the blue. That's where she's at. Meditating on blue. Will that kind of thing help her out. I'm sure it will. Will she be able to figure out what's wrong with her? I have no idea. All I know is that I can't afford to wait around and find out. Really. What the heck.

Backing slowly away... .

[HappyNihilist]

  Welcome back, willy. I remember you.

I'm sorry you've been having a confusing time with your ex. The BPD push/pull behavior is painful and difficult. 

You sound like you're handling this well. You know what's going on -- even though she doesn't -- and you know it's not something you want, need, or are comfortable with.

I'm very clear now on what I can and can't do.

I know what she wants. She doesn't. She wants to have a boyfriend in me who isn't a boyfriend. She wants to be close to me (text 3 times a day, plan trips together, have me work my schedule around her when I'm in town), she wants to seduce me super close to the edge of being in a relationship and push me away if it ever gets too close. I get it now. The push pull. I see it for what it is. And I'm not interested.

A.J. Mahari, a recovered BPD, has an article on push/pull behavior (full article here) that I found helpful. It's a little wordy (as per her style), but here's a paraphrased excerpt that I think really gets to the heart of it--

The reason a borderline engages in push/pull behavior is simple -- intimacy in youth was what so hurt, damaged, and wounded. The distortion that the person in the here and now is going to "get them" leads the borderline to "act out" (push away) after pulling you in -- and the entire thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't blame you for not being interested in that. Being kept on the precipice of intimacy is unsustainable... .it wears on the heart and soul. You deserve true intimacy, and you realize that your exgf can't give that to you.

Maybe she'll sort her ___ out with a therapist. Maybe not.

Will she be able to figure out what's wrong with her? I have no idea. All I know is that I can't afford to wait around and find out.

This is all truth. 

I'm going to ask, though... .why do you feel the need to "slowly" back away?

[Infared]

Although this hasnt happened to me, my ex would collect people and was very disappointed that her exes wouldn't stay as best friends. She didn't have any intention of getting back with them. She just wanted them in her pockets for later if needed.

Stop thinking about her, her story, her needs. Just think about you.

She has rejected your offer to be friends on your terms. That is unacceptable and a bit weird! Walk away.

I agree completely. Take care of and love YOU. Move away from her self-involved (psycho) drama where you are a personal attendant on her terms. I see nothing but tons of pain there for you.

[patientandclear]

I know what she wants. She doesn't. She wants to have a boyfriend in me who isn't a boyfriend. She wants to be close to me (text 3 times a day, plan trips together, have me work my schedule around her when I'm in town), she wants to seduce me super close to the edge of being in a relationship and push me away if it ever gets too close. I get it now. The push pull. I see it for what it is. And I'm not interested.

Applause, Willy.  That is what she wants.  I'm glad for you that you are clear you do not want it.

Being kept on the precipice of intimacy is unsustainable... .it wears on the heart and soul.

And Nihilist, this is the best statement of the painful state I hovered in for about 18 months I have ever heard.  "Being kept on the precipice of intimacy."  Thank you.

[GuiltHaunted]

Hi Willy,

It's nice to read from you again, thank you for keep updating. It's always interesting to read how the stories progress.

I am still in NC with my ex for 13 months now, and thank you for your input when I was doubting if that was the right way to go.

[willy45]

Hello Everyone I haven't heard from for a while!

Thank you so much for your thoughts and replies! Feels like old friends by now, eh?

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised but I laid down my boundaries on Sunday night. Thanked her for talking to me even though I know it is very difficult for her to do that. Told her I had heard her and was adjusting my expectations and dialed everything back in. Told her I was good and thanked her. I guess that made her panic. She sent me an email telling me she was sorry for being so ambiguous and that she was just very confused and wanted to take baby steps with me. She then asked me to talk again yesterday (odd for someone who the day before had a fit at just the thought of talking). I told her I would be happy to talk if she liked but that I really didn't feel the need. I had the clarity I needed about everything and happy to be there for her as a friend but that I needed to dial everything back in terms of intimacy, time together, time invested, etc. She then emailed me back telling me she loved me too but was very scared. So, we talked.

I told her that I loved her very much too but that she was clearly struggling and seemed to be taking on the challenge of sorting out her life and that I agreed with her that it would likely take a long time. She still didn't understand why I couldn't hang out all the time, regardless. I told her that spending long periods of time with her made me fall in love with her all over again and that I didn't want to do that. I told her that the kind of intimacy we shared (not physical... .more intimacy in terms of the way we talk to each other, the way we spend time together, the way we touch each other) was something that I only reserve for my partner. Even though I don't have one right now, it is still a sacred thing to me and that I was not willing to share that with her or with anyone unless they were my partner. I told her my door was open should she get herself onto stable ground but that there was nothing I could do to help her get there. I told her I was all good. I wasn't mad at her. We spent some time together. We learned that we still love each other very much. And I learned that she is still deeply troubled and struggling. I told her we can stay in touch but any face to face time would be limited to a lunch or a movie. Nothing over a couple of hours and only once for each time I'm in town (which is about once a month). I told her that we could re-evaluate in a few months to see if that was working or not. She told me that she didn't want to loose me. I told her to not worry. I wasn't going anywhere but that I readjusted myself, my expectations, saw things very clearly, didn't need her or anyone for that matter in my life romantically and that I was going to hold off on getting in another relationship until someone comes along that adds to my life in a substantial and rewarding way.

It was actually a good talk. A lot of what I learned in these forums about validating and boundary setting totally worked. I set my boundary. Was very firm. She tried to talk me out of it but it was very clear that I was not going to budge. So, she agreed. Seemed happy about it all. And that was that.

I feel on much firmer ground. Nice to know that I can find my balance in all this. Maybe this time it won't put me into a tailspin... .But, at the end of the day, this past experience has shown me that I am much more capable of identifying when things aren't Ok with me and sticking to my guns about it.

Thanks again everyone. Really. So much... .

[GuiltHaunted]

I think if I was to meet my ex for dinner once pr. month, it would keep me stuck and closed off from meeting another potential partner. Are you worried if this arrangement would keep you stuck too?

Also, what's in it for you? Are you going away from these meeting with a sense of enrichment? Or is this for her, so she doesn't feel the sense of abandonment?

To old friends... .!  

[willy45]

Yes and no and yes.

Yes I am worried it will keep me stuck.

No. I don't leave feeling enriched. I feel drained as all h$ll.

And yes. It is likely because I don't want her to feel abandoned. Or, maybe, I get easily sucked in to her seduction that is probably more driven by her fear of abandonment than anything tobdo with me. And no... .I'm not saying I'm not responsible for taking the bait. I am. I guess I'm still susceptible.

Thanks for the questions! Good to probe a bit for sure! 

[downwhim]

Willy,

Yes, what would happen if you started dating. Basically I think she is saying you could be BBf's for 2 years but if she found someone else in those two years all bets would be off. She is a user. Move on. See her for what she is. When you try and have an adult conversation she is really unavailable and not listening. Pull the plug... .