Is court cathartic or a waste of time and money?

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Is going to court cathartic or a waste of time and money? I'd be interested to hear how the final outcome in divorce with a BPDex left fellow boarders feeling? Satisfied, vindicated? Let down? relieved? distraught?

This is my situation. I'm taking my exBPDh to court this week to seek a financial resolution after months and months of obfuscation and refusal to negotiate. He has been dragging his feet after his initial enthusiasm for divorce so he could swan off with half our house and set up home with my replacement. Now we've inevitably hit the grim reality of financial settlement and the legal process that involves. I am not expecting to 'take him to the cleaners' - however appealing it sounds. But I hope to gain some personal satisfaction in having two highly intelligent lawyers represent my interests in a public arena and expose my ex as a liar, cheat and misanthropist.  I've  been subjected to years of BPDH heartache, controlling and bullying, and  even if the financial outcome is not as good as I might wish for I guess the truth is that I am hoping for some personal satisfaction.  Are my feelings valid or am I just being histrionic? What will I feel in a few days time I wonder?

Good to hear some reality checks... .

[toomanytears]

Is going to court cathartic or a waste of time and money? I'd be interested to hear how the final outcome in divorce with a BPDex left fellow boarders feeling? Satisfied, vindicated? Let down? relieved? distraught?

This is my situation. I'm taking my exBPDh to court this week to seek a financial resolution after months and months of obfuscation and refusal to negotiate. He has been dragging his feet after his initial enthusiasm for divorce so he could swan off with half our house and set up home with my replacement. Now we've inevitably hit the grim reality of financial settlement and the legal process that involves. I am not expecting to 'take him to the cleaners' - however appealing it sounds. But I hope to gain some personal satisfaction in having two highly intelligent lawyers represent my interests in a public arena and expose my ex as a liar, cheat and misanthropist.  I've  been subjected to years of BPDH heartache, controlling and bullying, and  even if the financial outcome is not as good as I might wish for I guess the truth is that I am hoping for some personal satisfaction.  Are my feelings valid or am I just being histrionic? What will I feel in a few days time I wonder?

Good to hear some reality checks... .

[maxen]

expose my ex as a liar, cheat and misanthropist.

we never got to court, thanks be to Zeus. however, in court your H would not be exposed as a misanthropist. a liar and a cheat perhaps, but not a misanthropist. your personal satisfaction will come from how well your Ls prove that he has violated the common law, not the moral law. your feelings are perfectly valid and it was a disappointment to me too that i wouldn't get to splay my wife's lies, infidelity, and sadism before the people of the state of new york. but as my L said, judges hear this all the time. it's another day at work for them.

how's your case? strong? are your Ls going after what they can win?

[whirlpoollife]

When it comes to division of assets, what the behaviors of the spouse are doesn't mean much in court.

They look at all the finance documents , income, property, marital vs non marital . I am in the middle of that now.

If we went as far as a trial, before the judge, I think it would still be assets only. I too was wishing his whole family could be in the courtroom so I would have a chance to speak of what their sibling is like behind closed doors.  That thought was a couple years ago,  now I don't care about it. 

My concern now is I don't want to spend tons on litigation but I don't want to gift it away just to be done.

If I have to spend money I'd rather give to my L vs h though.

[toomanytears]

thank you maxen and whirlpool

Yes I know the court won't be interested in the behavioural side of the divorce. It's assets only. However, my exBPDh has always dismissed the years I spent bringing up our kids as irrelevant (I just lay around all day doing nothing apparently).  I hope that the court will not agree to that view, and reflect my contribution to the marriage in our settlement.  My solicitor thinks it will and that I will come out with a better deal than my BPDh's proposal, which is minimal, but he has taken the precaution of employing a barrister to do the talking.  At the end of the day though it will depend on the judge and how s/he views our case. We might be unlucky.  Nonetheless the fact that these highly skilled and intelligent professionals are fighting my corner is satisfaction enough for me. My  exBPDh has spent years portraying himself as the White Knight when his behaviour has been the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing.  I have now employed my own two white knights, albeit mercenaries, and I think it will be worth every penny. This is my therapy for me and no one else. 

Wish me luck!

[ForeverDad]

Some members here had 'gifted' their ex more than they should have and remarked years later that they wish they would have not been so lax or giving about seeking data, money, splitting of marital assets, parenting, whatever it was.  Often the reason they gave for why they gave in too easily was they just wanted to end the agony and get away from it all but then regretted it later when they were negatively impacted, financially, in parenting or other aspects.

So if you're feeling such temptations - we all did - try to (1) picture yourself 5 years from now and looking back wishing what you would have done differently or (2) imagine you giving advice to a friend or even a stranger who is in exactly the same situation you're in, what would that advice be?  The difference is that right now you're deep in the emotional impact of your situation/dilemma and the easy way out probably isn't the best way out.

[livednlearned]

My L told me early in the process that there is no such thing as getting your "day in court." The emotional release of being validated after these relationships is long hard work that you do with a therapist. Judges and lawyers aren't in the business of giving you that, although they can certainly make a difference in the financial road ahead. 

There is often no winning, and even if you "win" it comes with so many losses over a lifetime how could it ever repair the damage. It can take time to process court outcomes too. Many times I sat and listened to the judge explain 1+1 = 2 to me, very patronizing, seeming as though it was all going downhill, only to have him rule in my favor. Then he would wrap things up and I wouldn't be able to fully understand what the implications were until standing outside with my L. Sometimes, it took days for things to sink in. And then you enter the motion for that ruling, another day in court. And if your L writes it up one way or another, you may see things in black and white, something hits you that you didn't quite get while sitting in court, and suddenly it feels strange to have intimate details of your life handled like this, in a court document.

Once, the court finally made N/BPDx give me the title to my car. I got to the DMV and discovered he had given me the title to his car.   So much for winning.

Once, the judge gave me full custody, but nothing changed materially for me or S13. I only felt I had "won" when I was able to fill out forms for a new psychiatrist for S13, and again when applying to a new charter school. Something so normal, but a big win.

Once, when the judge terminated visitation, I actually cried in court. No more father in my son's life, such a mixed bag of emotions I still don't know what to make of it.

And when the house refi finally went through, I didn't feel a thing. What was to feel? Not paying legal fees does not have a feeling.

No court, no lawyer, no ex husband, no member here can validate the years you spent raising the kids. No one can unsay the mean abusive insults he said to you.

You get to feel that you've won when you move on, start a new life, look in the mirror and feel good about who you are, what you went through, who you've become. Winning is walking in the door to your home and not feeling dread, that's my definition.

When kids are not involved, court is just about ending the contract and divvying things up. The emotional stuff is ours to sort through.

[DreamFlyer99]

When kids are not involved, court is just about ending the contract and divvying things up. The emotional stuff is ours to sort through.

Great way to sum this up. My uBPDh also has been very dismissive about the years I spent raising kids and taking care of him and the home, even though we were in agreement that I wouldn't work outside the home so I COULD raise kids etc. etc. Now that I've left the home suddenly he's got the grown kids asking when i'm getting a job (i'm on disability for a chronic pain and fatigue syndrome) and calling it "his" money.

It's been hard for me to feel like i'm just swallowing the horrid stuff my h put me through in the interest of me moving forward. But at the end of the day what really matters? The fact that we ARE moving forward into our own lives. The legalities are just about following the rules that are set up to follow.

It's hard to know the story he's told our adult kids, our neighbors, even the pastor at the church we used to attend. I get a bad acid thing in my throat when I think about it. But in the end I will have the biggest prize, my freedom from his demands and head games. Better than any day in court.

[toomanytears]

My L told me early in the process that there is no such thing as getting your "day in court." The emotional release of being validated after these relationships is long hard work that you do with a therapist. Judges and lawyers aren't in the business of giving you that, although they can certainly make a difference in the financial road ahead.  

... .The emotional stuff is ours to sort through.

I was so lucky that I was given an unexpected lifeline. My ex's lawyer said I cd have the contents of the house. Weird because I had never considered that our rather eclectic collection would be brought up in the hesitations . It wasn't worth a huge amount in resale value. I guess it's a bone the barristers throw wives asa distraction knowing they have sentimental attachments. Phew!  I knew that thus gift wd save me so much stress and heartache so I took it. I probably lost out financially in other ways. But the fact that I did not have to negotiate with my ex over 31 years of stuff - some of it very precious emotionally - was a huge plus. I wd never have to interact, negotiate or speak to him ever again. The ow would not be able interact with anything I had brought to the marriage. Our kids would eventually have familiar things from their family home and not hers. (my ex had already given away some of my daughter's toys to the replacement's child).  As soon as the documents were signed my ex had second thoughts and reneged. Goal posts moving, true to form, his barrister said he'd want some of the contents after all. I checked with my lawyer and he confirmed there was no going back. It was indeed mine. I am very happy. The emotional stuff was sorted. The rest is up to me now. I won't have regrets. No point. I'm free and I can go forward.

[maxen]

My ex's lawyer said I cd have the contents of the house. I guess it's a bone they throw wives knowing they have sentimental attachments.

it's interesting, the things lawyers think they pick up on. my L said that offering to leave the opposite party's retirement account untouched is a good gambit, whatever else is in it. i can't say it clinched the deal, but that was part of my offer and my w took it. that bid wouldn't have occurred to me.

[toomanytears]

My ex's lawyer said I cd have the contents of the house. I guess it's a bone they throw wives knowing they have sentimental attachments.

it's interesting, the things lawyers think they pick up on. my L said that offering to leave the opposite party's retirement account untouched is a good gambit, whatever else is in it. i can't say it clinched the deal, but that was part of my offer and my w took it. that bid wouldn't have occurred to me.

I guess they've seen it all before. It's guesswork though. My ex's lawyer did not know how much my ex valued his library of academic books.  He remembered about that too late... .

[ForeverDad]

My ex's lawyer said I cd have the contents of the house. I guess it's a bone they throw wives knowing they have sentimental attachments.

it's interesting, the things lawyers think they pick up on. my L said that offering to leave the opposite party's retirement account untouched is a good gambit, whatever else is in it. i can't say it clinched the deal, but that was part of my offer and my w took it. that bid wouldn't have occurred to me.

I guess they've seen it all before. It's guesswork though. My ex's lawyer did not know how much my ex valued his library of academic books.  He remembered about that too late... .

Then hold onto them or put them in storage, at least for a while.  They may be a bit of 'leverage' you could use if there are any delays or complications in getting the last of it final.

[toomanytears]

My ex's lawyer said I cd have the contents of the house. I guess it's a bone they throw wives knowing they have sentimental attachments.

it's interesting, the things lawyers think they pick up on. my L said that offering to leave the opposite party's retirement account untouched is a good gambit, whatever else is in it. i can't say it clinched the deal, but that was part of my offer and my w took it. that bid wouldn't have occurred to me.

I guess they've seen it all before. It's guesswork though. My ex's lawyer did not know how much my ex valued his library of academic books.  He remembered about that too late... .

Then hold onto them or put them in storage, at least for a while.  They may be a bit of 'leverage' you could use if there are any delays or complications in getting the last of it final.

Well I've given some of them away to a very dear mutual friend and that felt rather good... .

[scraps66]

Anti-climatic, melodramatic.  A whole lot of time and money spent for the results I got and in the time period of four years running.  The results were disproportionate to the amount of money outlaid.  The court was almost, and continues to be, ineffective and/or incompetent in dealing with situations properly. 

Seven years from the DOS, I still don't feel there is anything I can have properly addressed by going back to court.  The number of trivial yet obvious mistakes made by court, or by an attorney opportunistically taking advantage of the court's ineptness, just has me "distraught."

[toomanytears]

Anti-climatic, melodramatic.  A whole lot of time and money spent for the results I got and in the time period of four years running.  The results were disproportionate to the amount of money outlaid.  The court was almost, and continues to be, ineffective and/or incompetent in dealing with situations properly. 

Seven years from the DOS, I still don't feel there is anything I can have properly addressed by going back to court.  The number of trivial yet obvious mistakes made by court, or by an attorney opportunistically taking advantage of the court's ineptness, just has me "distraught."

Agree with both adjectives.  There was no fairness or justice involved. It was all rough and ready back of the envelope stuff. The judge allowed my ex's barrister to say mean things about our marriage which still ring in my ears. That hurt but it brought home to me the vagaries of the court and I realised I had the best deal given the circs and bailed out before any more money was wasted.  I am still going over what I'd  have done differently or got my solicitor to do differently and I can't see how the outcome could have been better.  We forced my ex to disclose some finances which we may or may not eventually get half of. I keep all the house contents so I don't have to negotiate with him at all over them. The rest is split in half which is the law anyway.  A very small gain but one I can live with so long as I don't have to liaise with my ex anymore.

[Rubies]

I did not have an attorney, I had advisors and I have legal experience in family advocacy.  Court is not the place for venting emotions.  I did not even read the 3 inch thick divorce BPD dropped on me, neither did the judge.   After 17 years of lies, abuse, financial and medical neglect of my children and myself, divorce court is the place for legal redress to seek protection from a BPD.  That's something we never had "in the relationship."

I do not have to "give" anything.  Anything he wants he can pay his lawyer to try to get.   His lies were easy to prove, what I missed the judge caught.  His lawyer stumbled back a few times, surprise, he lied to her too!  Judge spanked his lawyer in the courtroom.   It cost me time, filing and copy fees.  I did not have to say, "BPD or Psych Eval"  or create any emo drama.  Let the BPDs do that for the judge. 

You flip the OFF switch to the emotional stuff, flip the OFF switch to the BPD with NC.   Stand on the other side of the room and pretend you're advocating for someone else if you can't advocate for yourself very well.  Do this for your children and your inner child.   You are now legal opponents, your goal is to negotiate the best possible deal allowed by the state for the wellbeing of your children and yourself.   The BPD will lie and weasel to get more than is legally allowed for themselves, skate the edges of orders, show disregard for the best interest of the children.  Your job is to make sure the judge sees this.

Too many people quickly give up everything because all they want is out.  A couple of years down the road they realize how foolish that choice was.   

[toomanytears]

I did not have an attorney, I had advisors and I have legal experience in family advocacy.  Court is not the place for venting emotions.  I did not even read the 3 inch thick divorce BPD dropped on me, neither did the judge.   After 17 years of lies, abuse, financial and medical neglect of my children and myself, divorce court is the place for legal redress to seek protection from a BPD.  That's something we never had "in the relationship."

I do not have to "give" anything.  Anything he wants he can pay his lawyer to try to get.   His lies were easy to prove, what I missed the judge caught.  His lawyer stumbled back a few times, surprise, he lied to her too!  Judge spanked his lawyer in the courtroom.   It cost me time, filing and copy fees.  I did not have to say, "BPD or Psych Eval"  or create any emo drama.  Let the BPDs do that for the judge.  

You flip the OFF switch to the emotional stuff, flip the OFF switch to the BPD with NC.   Stand on the other side of the room and pretend you're advocating for someone else if you can't advocate for yourself very well.  :)o this for your children and your inner child.   You are now legal opponents, your goal is to negotiate the best possible deal allowed by the state for the wellbeing of your children and yourself.   The BPD will lie and weasel to get more than is legally allowed for themselves, skate the edges of orders, show disregard for the best interest of the children.  Your job is to make sure the judge sees this.

Too many people quickly give up everything because all they want is out.  A couple of years down the road they realize how foolish that choice was.  

Interesting to hear your views Rubies. I had researched as much as I could and I had good lawyers but nothing prepared me for how quick and dirty court was. I guess if I'd been able to sit in on a few cases before mine it would have been less of a shock. My lawyers were disappointed in the judge who made faces as she looked through my papers and did not 'spank' the ex's lawyer for his unpleasant comments about our marriage which were irrelevant and inappropriate. We could have gone on to the next round and it might have been a better outcome with a different judge but not by a vast amount once legal fees were taken off. Nonetheless I wish I could dial back time to that day and have another shot. I know so much more now... .or perhaps I only think I do. No doubt like many other BPDs my ex can twist and turn in the most unpredictable ways... .

[scraps66]

Agree with both adjectives.  There was no fairness or justice involved. It was all rough and ready back of the envelope stuff. The judge allowed my ex's barrister to say mean things about our marriage which still ring in my ears. That hurt but it brought home to me the vagaries of the court and I realised I had the best deal given the circs and bailed out before any more money was wasted.  I am still going over what I'd  have done differently or got my solicitor to do differently and I can't see how the outcome could have been better.  We forced my ex to disclose some finances which we may or may not eventually get half of. I keep all the house contents so I don't have to negotiate with him at all over them. The rest is split in half which is the law anyway.  A very small gain but one I can live with so long as I don't have to liaise with my ex anymore. [/quote]
This brings back memories.  My equitable distribution/settlement consisted of 19 months of time and 3 conferences between my L, the Master, and ex as she was pro se.  In all this time ex produced NO financial records, no 401k, no bank statements, nothing.  How does this happen?  During this period she would entertain no offers for settlement, claimed to not even receive them.

One of the many criteria to be used in determining equitable distribution is the "financial fitness" of each parent.  Essentially how are your finances at the time of settlement.  My ex had nothing when we started our very short 47 month union.  And to my knowledge she had nothing and no means of saving cash.  We had a house that I bought with a $65k down payment so this was going to be my settlement, getting the house. 

Low and behold and out of the blue, ex announces that she is buying a house and that I could move back into the marital residence.  She had apparently in the process inherited some money which she kept concealed as she and her bf lived in the martial residence that I was paying for!  So this information was never presented during equitable distribution.  What this gave ex was an extremely unfair advantage with her finances and the way the settlement was determined.  Simply, it was a matter of, "he makes double what she makes so we're splitting it down the middle."  It then took me forcing my L to go to trial to actually close the case.  That took more than two months to simply get a trial date.  The Master, though making deplorable progress in reaching a settlement, was reluctant to let the case go to trial.  The Master also gave ex every opportunity to the end to produce her financial records to actually do the settlement properly.  It went to trial, and we settled before the judge even heard the case.  I negotiated for about a $6k loss in the terms of the deal from what was on the table.  Just to reach settlement.

My point, in terms of what gets split up and how much is to be split up - make sure that all the chips are out on the table and there are no unknowns because what is not known may in fact end up being something significant to consider in the proceedings.       

[Rubies]

I don't find BPDs to be unpredictable at all.  On the contrary, they are very predictable.  You have it, they want it, they will lie, cheat and steal to get it and they don't take No for an answer not even from a judge.  Document and put it in front of the judge.

There are vast resources here on learning the predictability of BPDs.

What I know about getting around the courthouse and legal system, if you cannot afford the best attorney to look out for your best interest, you're better off doing the work yourself.    A couple of divorce attorneys with an unfocused fighting couple will get most of the community assets, the judge will never have a clue what's really going on.

There was a lot I let slide, I let his attorney know I knew what he was not disclosing.  If she wanted the judge more pissed than what he already was, we could play full court Hard Ball.  If that's what she wanted, we could open those big can o' worms.  Nobody is going to be completely happy with the settlement,  nobody is going to be happy with long drawn out divorce trial but the lawyers.  The goal is the judge's signature on divorce, custody and division of property in the shortest time possible.  Protect my daughter, myself and my share of community property.  Have nothing more to do with BPD BS.

[whirlpoollife]

This is a decision I am going to face soon on the division of assets. Beside marital assets, h wants cash. He tried it as equitable distribution, then to alimony , now as spousal support. My L now tells me yea he's entitled to support on my one time capital gain just as I would be entitled to more support if he had an increase in income.  I asked , a year and a half in seperation ?  yep you are still married.  That's why h stalled the divorce.  ( so did my L)   To wait till I had the gain.  My L said I will pay for a trial and his fees , with an unknown outcome, or pay h.     So much not  only am I up agaisnt h I am up against my L. 

Divorce master doesn't care at all except to collect his fees and manipulate a quick settlement.

Scraps , on your ex's inheritance, where did it come from, was there a capital gain on it? Tax forms will show it if you could get your hands on it. If there is a capital gain, you get something from it.