my BPD wife is insisting on divorce

[alexb3]

have been married for over 20 years with kids to mrs. BPD. i am the nicest guy and have stayed in the relatinship and suffered for her sake and the kids. great way out that she wants divorce. what will happen to her when she realizes i wasn't her problem. or will she?

[ForeverDad]

Frankly, the Blaming and Blame-Shifting are likely to continue.  Counseling with someone qualified to handle Personality Disorders is a crucial step. Clearly, over the course of 20 years, she really didn't listen to you.  One reason is that you're too emotionally close to her, she can't really hear you, her perceptions of the emotional baggage in the relationship gets in the way.  That's why trained professionals who stay out of the emotional dysregulation chaotic mix can sometimes get through.  Recovery from BPD is possible, but she has to really and truly want it.

Have you considered that she may be doing this for skewed PD reasonings?  She may sense that you're becoming informed of her core issues and try to abandon you before you can abandon her.  (Talk about self-sabotaging circular logic... .)  Or the kids may be getting older, she sees her parenting hold on you weakening and so she is trying to use leverage while she still has some.  Or she may feel she's getting older and is pondering rejecting you for newer relationships, the draw of honeymoon-like newness.

It is generally not good to put a name to her poor behavior patterns, labels indicating the problems are with her can trigger overreactions.  How intense is her Denial?  Recovery would take time and a lot of work, facing her Denial, mindfulness of her behavior patterns, ways to divert her rants and rages into more productive behaviors, etc.  A counselor or therapist is crucial.  Is she open to starting with marriage counseling and then splitting off into individual therapy?  It is very important that you both choose capable counselors, experienced, not gullible and not likely to be fooled, conned or manipulated.

Also, counseling for the children is highly recommended.  As with your own counselors, try to be sure they are experienced ones and not gullible to trumped up claims and allegations.  Be forewarned, your spouse is likely to choose ones who will agree with her version of reality, it's a way for the disordered parent to seek out 'negative advocates'.

If she is seeking divorce, then be aware she may be giving more than usual attention to posturing as a victim or target in order to get an advantage (custody, parenting, assets, debts, blaming, etc) in domestic court.  If she has contemplated or threatened making allegations in the past, then you are at high risk of facing false allegations in a separation or divorce.  Be aware and beware.

Frankly, if a person is determined to divorce, no judge will prevent that.  Yes, court may be glacially slow but it is there to oversee the unwinding of the relationship, not to fix it or the spouses.

It may not feel 'fair' but you need to protect yourself - now - just in case you do get outmaneuvered and sabotaged with allegations.  Do you have documentation that you are the one typically misbehaving?  (One thing we targets are at risk of is being "too fair" and we end up sabotaging ourselves and our future parenting.)

The above may not describe your exact situation.  People with PDs can suffer with the behavior patterns to varying degrees.  It may be only a little bad - or a lot bad.  Prepare yourself for the worst (high conflict divorce) while hoping it doesn't turn out that bad (lower conflict or perhaps even helpful counseling).

You do need a proactive, experienced, problem-solving family law attorney.  Get some confidential consultations - you have a right to confidentiality! - and compare the options and strategies proffered.  You most definitely need more than a typical forms-filing, hand-holding lawyer.

In the initial inexpensive consultations ask the lawyers if they're familiar with the strategies and solutions by William A Eddy. ( www.HighConflictInstitute.com )  He's a social worker, mediator, lawyer, lecturer, author of many books and co-author of Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a crucial separation/divorce handbook on this board.  If you are informed and reasonably prepared then you and the children will survive and probably prosper too.  It and many other essential/helpful books and articles are described on our Book and Article review boards.

[maxen]

hi alexb3   

i am the nicest guy

i absolutely believe you. if there are characteristics of people with BPD, there are characteristics of people with people with BPD. we're nice, reliable, long-suffering, and now we're here. whatever happens in your marriage you'll get good support and knowledgeable (unfortunately) advice on this board.

can you speak a little more about immediate circumstances? this may be pure BPDism (what Forever Dad says:

to abandon you before you can abandon her

was said almost verbatim by my wife during the Last Hour of our marriage) but was there a trigger? are there others who know what's up, family or friends? please keep posting alexb3!

[alexb3]

She has actually been begging, pleading for me to go into therapy and change myself. She categorically refuses any notion at all that she has an issue. She blames all her psychotic behaviours that I am so sick i drive her to insanity, but I am the one who has to change. i told her that there is nothing for me to change so she says she has to divorce me. To put it more succinctly, she feels that i am driving her crazy so she has to leave the relationship despite her professed love for me. The only other option is that she is crazy in her own right which she will never entertain. She has fallen out with her entire extended family rather than acknowledge she has an issue.

She went to a quack therapist who bought into her stories of abuse and was told she has to divorce me to avoid the abuse. That empowered her and with such backup I don't see how she can backtrack. I have a real fear that when she realizes she has divorced me and her problems remain she is in real danger of harming herself. She is still the mother of my kids.

[maxen]

She has actually been begging, pleading for me to go into therapy and change myself. She categorically refuses any notion at all that she has an issue. She blames all her psychotic behaviours that I am so sick i drive her to insanity, but I am the one who has to change.

I have a real fear that when she realizes she has divorced me and her problems remain she is in real danger of harming herself. She is still the mother of my kids.

the best thing for you to do is to turn your thinking to the protection of your children and yourself. this may be hard to do because of how recently (it sounds like) all this has occurred, and because of the many emotional horrors in the idea of splitting. but you can't try to conform your choices to what you think she might do. if she does have BPD (and the behaviors you describe are characteristic of BPD) it will be up to her and a therapist. you can play a role at most.

have you talked to a lawyer? this doesn't mean that you're going to divorce, but you must get professional advice. initial consultation may be free.

[livednlearned]

Hi alexb3,

Welcome to the site, and I'm glad you found it. Going through these relationships without peer support can be very isolating. It sounds like your wife has recently begun to talk about divorce, and that the psychologist might've added some fuel to this. I'm sorry to hear that someone who should be helping is actually creating more problems. Is your wife still seeing this counselor?

My ex talked about divorce for many years. Looking back, I think it was a way of expressing his emotional distress. I don't think he would have gone through with it. Although, it was also the beginning of much more disordered and abusive, demanding, and controlling behavior. Do you see your wife's behavior becoming more abusive?

How old are your kids? Are they doing ok?

[alexb3]

been going on about divorce seriously for 6 months now. a mediator sent us to separate therapists to try and settle things and completely backfired. my therapist thought i was crazy- for sticking it out in such an abusive relationship! My kids think we should get divorced becuase of all the tension in the home. Curiously, the two older one's were able to independently diagnose their mother with BPD- the younger ones think the usual - she's emotional and volatile but obviously I play her wrong and set her off. i don't think divorce is my choice anyway now. She seems gung ho and I'd be nuts to fight her about it at this stage. this past week I went through major mourning over the relationship and saw a clinical psychologist- the same one who diagnosed her with BPD, which helped a lot. It's so much easier than trying to explain it to people who think she'll wake up better one morning, problem solved!

[ForeverDad]

Is she okay with you being the primary parent for custody and parenting schedule?

[alexb3]

i haven't broached it. i doubt i would, as she would only use it to engage in a fight. she actually called dyfs on me for beating up the kids, who investigated and gave me the green light so i could use this if necessary. but do i want the expense and aggravation of a fight? the real question is are the kids in real danger around her? she has always invariably used me as the sole guilty party in her life, championing the cause of the kids. if she lost the kids in a court battle I'm almost certain there would only be one way out of her misery! even without that I'm still very unsure how she will react once she realizes what she has lost after a divorce!

[ForeverDad]

Would "live and let live" work, as far as her parenting is concerned?  Frankly, her example is not a good one.  And leaving her to choose her level of parenting and hence control over your parenting would be a bad strategy.  The more time spent with you as the stable, calm and exemplary parent, the better.  Browse some of the posts by members who grew up with an acting-out, controlling, raging parent.  They're adults now and still suffer from their childhood experiences.  Many report a passive parent who allowed himself or herself to be sidelined as a huge disappointment to them.  Yes, some of that is out of your control, but the point is to be a parent as much as you can, your children need you.  They need you to be at least a periodic refuge from the chaos and discord, and a practical example for firm boundaries and effective coping.

In addition, she may focus on you with you now while you're a nearby target, what happens in the years to come when you aren't available for target practice?  Yes, you may not get 99% time, you may not even get majority time but that doesn't mean you don't try to seek and strategize for the most time and responsibility of the children as possible.

This is not to say you have to 'stay' to protect the children.  No, in our high conflict cases it is often necessary to end the dysfunctional relationship.  A few decades ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives or at least a part of your lives to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that is - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

This reminds me of a scenario I often wrote in the past... .

It is so hard to know what is the absolute without a single doubt "right" thing to do.  No one can ever be 100% sure that there isn't something else we could have done or said better.  That is why I often say here, do your reasonable best.  Later, perhaps even years from now, when your daughter asks, ":)addy, did you fight for me?" you can answer, "Yes, I sure did, very hard, I did my [reasonable] best."  She won't really expect Superman who leaps tall buildings in a single bound, she just wants her Dad to be there for her, doing what he can.  And you are.

[livednlearned]

but do i want the expense and aggravation of a fight?

This is a common way of thinking at the beginning of divorce -- that we can control the level of conflict. The sad truth is that your wife is likely to escalate the conflict no matter what you do. People with BPD experience extreme rejection sensitivity in the best of times. And divorce is a very real type of abandonment. She may not understand how things work, and will be driven by fear regardless of what you do or say. If she has already called child protective services once, it is likely she will do it again or something like it. No one here wants to increase the conflict, and we do not want to harm our ex spouses. That's why it is best to focus on protecting you and the kids, and develop a strategy around that.

It is common, even when the BPD spouse agrees to something, for them to change their minds and obstruct the very same thing they agreed to.

The behaviors you experienced in the marriage will be present in the divorce. You know her best -- how is she likely going to respond?

[alexb3]

standard visitation of every other weekend with father plus two evenings a week will be something she will have no choice but to comply with, through court enforcement if necessary. Given her amazing communication skills i would have a hard time convincing a judge of her issues... .as one mediator summed it up, "okay, so she has BPD. now what do you have?" Hopeless! unless someone is familiar with BPD's severity it's a waste of time trying to explain when the affflicted appears so genuine and convincing! and the additional social pressure of trying to wrest children from their loving mother as a cruel, vengeful divorce maneuver will also not serve me in good stead. additionally, it was predicted by someone familiar with the situation that within 12 to 24 months she will gladly relinquish the kids to me!

[ForeverDad]

Are you willing to accept a 'standard' order for father to get 22-25% parenting time?  What will the children think if you accept a 'standard' order for father to get 22-25% parenting time?  It's one thing to have the court order it, but quite another to sit back and accept it or make a settlement for it.

Whether your spouse will eventually tire of actual parenting and let it go, it might happen, eventually.  But do you want to count on it?

I agree, a court often is unwilling to take the time to delve into the lives of each parent.  And yes, a diagnostic label means little if anything by itself to the court.  But... .if you get a qualified, perceptive, unbiased Custody Evaluator who does take the time and effort to assess/evaluate the spouses, the children, the behaviors and behavior patterns, then you may very well get a professional in your children's corner who will speak very well of you in the report to the court.

Over time we've come to see that it is the behaviors and behavior patterns that (eventually) get the court's attention.  When presenting your case to court, present all the poor behaviors but focus your time and attention what the court sees as more 'actionable' - the poor parenting behaviors - because the poor adult behaviors (with you) will take a back seat.

By the way, the CE and the court will agree with you that the children should have ongoing access to counseling.  If you want counseling for them and she doesn't, that will be a red flag to the CE.

[livednlearned]

I said the same thing about my ex when we divorced. He's a former trial attorney, and I thought there was no way I stood a chance in court against him. Talk about a smooth talker.

Don't talk yourself out of what you think is best for the kids based on how things will go in court. There are so many plays, tactics, strategies to each of our cases. The more you learn about how family law court works, the more options and approaches you will begin to see. If she is a smooth talking persuasive blamer, then maybe a deposition will work. BPD sufferers don't do well in depositions because of the whole feelings = facts thing. Yes, it costs more money. It can also be a very effective way to get the outcome you think is best for your kids.

And don't let a lawyer talk you out of 50/50 shared parenting. I think lawyers perpetuate the gender bias more than anyone else in family law court. Keep in mind that their goal is to lower your expectations so they can get you the outcome they believe they can get. If you think it's best for your kids to be with you 50/50, then go for that.

You're probably right that your wife will end up shirking her time, and you'll end up getting more time anyway. There is legal custody to think about, too. There are many ways for BPD ex spouses to obstruct, stonewall, and delay. You want to use the legal system as much as possible to give you decision-making where possible so you don't have to engage her. Ask for sole legal custody -- you might not get it. But you establish a record with the court that you knew this was going to be a sticking point, and you lawyer can stand up and say, "There has been a pattern of stonewalling, obstruction, and problematic decision-making with the kids during the marriage, and that pattern has continued after divorce. The parties have a child who needs xyz, and the opposing party cannot cooperate and do what's needed in the best interests of the child on this issue, this issue, and this issue. Therefore, we request sole legal custody."

I ended up with full custody and the court terminated visitation.

I learned that there are very serious limits to my ex's smooth-talking, persuasive and charismatic charms.

[alexb3]

dyfs just finished their assessment and concluded that both parents were fine and healthy with no danger to the kids, and basically we were both using the kids as pawns in our divorce. i do not know how she will react to such a conclusion given that her entire support body have bought into her abusive father story! definitely a concerning unknown. however, the fact that they did not pick on her BPD despite being informed that it was an issue, shows how good a show she can put on.

[rarsweet]

The thought of in 12-24 months the other parent will give up when they can't handle the kids doesn't really work with disturbed people. A lot of them don't really put work in with being with the kids. They can park them in front of a TV or with a babysitter, isolate them so they don't bring them to extracurricular activities, refuse therapy, etc. They just want the kids for their own needs and wants. Its like of course they would keep a job where they get to show up late, call in whenever they want, screw off all day, and still get paid.

[livednlearned]

The thought of in 12-24 months the other parent will give up when they can't handle the kids doesn't really work with disturbed people.

I think a few members here have experienced the other parent giving up -- mine did. When we were in an active custody battle, if he could not take S13 for whatever reason, he never tried to trade the time. He canceled at the last minute, never giving a reason. Or suddenly developed illnesses and had to bring S13 back to me. And then when he had to do a few things in order for visitation to be upheld, he didn't. At the moment, S13 doesn't see his dad.

I believe Matt's ex also unofficially started to give up more and more time.

The stress of parenting can be very triggering for pwBPD. I wonder if the differences have to do with the sub-types. My ex seemed to swing between the petulant/controlling (queen) subtype and the melancholic/masochistic (waif) type. I think when he was in waif mode, he found parenting to be too stressful.