at the end of my rope about finances

[adventurer]

uBPD wife this morning identified one of our major relationship problems as money.  She hasn't worked in 10 years and has done nothing regarding my many pleas to please help us with finances.  We have no kids and she has zero other responsibilities.

So I asked her how we could solve the money issue and she told me that the solution would be for me to stop making her feel like a burden and financial drain.

I am beyond frustrated.  I actually had a glimmer of hope that she would mention at least LOOKING for some part-time work or something.  Nope.  Apparently, as long as I don't make her feel bad, the fact that we are living paycheck-to-paycheck and have nothing for emergencies or for our new roof we will be needing is meaningless to her.

I think I need to move to the leaving board, I don't see any way out of this.

[gomez_addams]

uBPD wife this morning identified one of our major relationship problems as money.  She hasn't worked in 10 years and has done nothing regarding my many pleas to please help us with finances.  We have no kids and she has zero other responsibilities.

So I asked her how we could solve the money issue and she told me that the solution would be for me to stop making her feel like a burden and financial drain.

I am beyond frustrated.  I actually had a glimmer of hope that she would mention at least LOOKING for some part-time work or something.  Nope.  Apparently, as long as I don't make her feel bad, the fact that we are living paycheck-to-paycheck and have nothing for emergencies or for our new roof we will be needing is meaningless to her.

I think I need to move to the leaving board, I don't see any way out of this.

We're not in horrible shape, but similar enough that I think I can weigh in.

We've been married three years.  She worked a few months, then quit because of anxiety.  Our "emergency/future house" fund is a little more than her college debt.  She pays barely over the minimum on her debt, because "it doesn't feel like a real marriage" and doesn't want to use my money to pay it off.

Over the past six months (since I've been on this board, and gotten a therapist for myself that understands BPD) I've been more assertive and proactive with finances.  I set up allotments from my paycheck to go to long-term savings and the IRA.  The past two years I was taking money out of long-term savings to fund the IRA, but now that's all handled before the money hits the checking account.

Perhaps having her get her own checking account, and allotting her some money might be a good idea, if you could pull it off.  That's the next step for the uBPDw and I.  If she wants more than the allotment, she can pick up work.  But I'm figuring a few months from now she won't have access to the primary checking account, and that will eliminate some of the irresponsible spending.

I have a shorter timeline than most, as I'm planning on leaving my job in the next year or two to go back to school full-time.  I need to be strict with the budget -- but attempts to get her to help me end in "make a budget yourself, you don't love me, there's no point in us working on anything together" and "God will provide for us, everything will be okay, I'll pick up a job in a year or two when you're in college, God will provide."

So I made a budget, and I'm going to force her to stick with it. 

Gomez

[felix22]

Yeah, it sounds cut & dry, in a way. The person I'm interacting with, keeps talking about work, but nothing ever manifests. After ten years, and no work, I think you can reasonably say that your person isn't going to. Best of luck with whatever decision you make. 

[an0ught]

Hi adventurer,

uBPD wife this morning identified one of our major relationship problems as money.  She hasn't worked in 10 years and has done nothing regarding my many pleas to please help us with finances.  We have no kids and she has zero other responsibilities.

So I asked her how we could solve the money issue and she told me that the solution would be for me to stop making her feel like a burden and financial drain.

since she is not coming up with a rational plan have you considered establishing strict boundaries? The fact that you are considering breaking up over this puts you in a very strong position when it comes establishing a financial boundary.

Her spending actions will have immediate consequences on her ability for future spending actions and may even motivate her to work.

Perhaps having her get her own checking account, and allotting her some money might be a good idea, if you could pull it off.  That's the next step for the uBPDw and I.  If she wants more than the allotment, she can pick up work.  But I'm figuring a few months from now she won't have access to the primary checking account, and that will eliminate some of the irresponsible spending.

[... .]

So I made a budget, and I'm going to force her to stick with it.  

The less it feels like she has some control and not you controlling her the better it will be accepted. Not that it will be liked initially and there won't be any silly games.

Hitting financial rock bottom is not fun. It is worth keeping an eye open for credit related events.

[adventurer]

since she is not coming up with a rational plan have you considered establishing strict boundaries? The fact that you are considering breaking up over this puts you in a very strong position when it comes establishing a financial boundary.

Thanks for the response.  We have started couples counseling - she is really acting up regarding it, trying to start fights and giving me silent treatment - but is still agreeing to go with me.  I am hoping that we can negotiate exactly this with the help of an outside party, some sort of financial boundary that is workable for the both of us and can help reduce stress and resentment on my part.

We had an interesting talk last night where my wife told me I just don't appreciate how physically sick she's been and put too much pressure and expectations on her. That she's been sick ever since adolescence and that's just who she is. I calmly pointed out that she was able to work and support herself just fine for all of those years until we were married, no matter how sick she was. She tried to make more excuses but ended up having an emotional breakdown and I just held her while she cried for 2 hours.

I am going to hit the wall soon from mental/emotional exhaustion because of the work necessary to remain calm, detatched and working all of the tools to manage my interactions with her, but I do have a day to myself this weekend to read, relax, see friends and hopefully recharge my batteries.

[Waddams]

So I asked her how we could solve the money issue and she told me that the solution would be for me to stop making her feel like a burden and financial drain.

We had an interesting talk last night where my wife told me I just don't appreciate how physically sick she's been and put too much pressure and expectations on her. That she's been sick ever since adolescence and that's just who she is. I calmly pointed out that she was able to work and support herself just fine for all of those years until we were married, no matter how sick she was. She tried to make more excuses but ended up having an emotional breakdown and I just held her while she cried for 2 hours.

Yup, it's not about the reality of the need for financial security and responsibility.  It's only about her feelings, and her anger when you don't respect her feelings.  Regardless of how irrational and at odds with reality her feelings are.

I won't say you need to divorce, but you are allowed to enact strict financial boundaries.  I went through something similar with my ex-wife.  She was running up debt, trying to keep it secret, refused to work, refused to stop over spending, etc.  I ended up turning off the credit cards, closing joint accounts, etc. and put her on an allowance, and when it was spent, she was out of cash until next pay day.  I was instantly financially abusing her, controlling her through money, etc.  Our marriage counselor was in disbelief at her reaction to being held accountable for herself financially.  By that point I was so far beyond sympathy for her that I just rolled my eyes and told her tough sh!t. 

There is no reasoning with the unreasonable.  You only end up with a bruised forehead from beating your head against the brick wall.  You can only set your boundaries needed for your own well being, hold to them, and detach from her reactions.

[an0ught]

since she is not coming up with a rational plan have you considered establishing strict boundaries? The fact that you are considering breaking up over this puts you in a very strong position when it comes establishing a financial boundary.

Thanks for the response.  We have started couples counseling - she is really acting up regarding it, trying to start fights and giving me silent treatment - but is still agreeing to go with me.  I am hoping that we can negotiate exactly this with the help of an outside party, some sort of financial boundary that is workable for the both of us and can help reduce stress and resentment on my part.

Possibly you can negotiate something with outside help. That would a good basis for a boundary and she may remember *after* cooling down that there was an agreement. Won't help you in the moment. Very likely you will still have a boundary that allows you to protect your side as she simply can't help herself sticking consistently to any deal. It will get better over time but initially she will behave like a drug addict. Please read up on boundaries. The sooner you establish clean boundaries and she encounters them the sooner her nonsense decreases.

[adventurer]

I just finished comforting her for an hour while she cried and vented.  Two days of tears because of me restating for the umpteenth time that I need her help with the bills.  She is having major abandonment fears because of my willingness to walk.

She was crying and told me she needed to know she could count on me (ie not leave her).  What do I do in this situation?  I think she is basically using tears to manipulate me into giving up on her finding a job.  If she can count on me no matter what, I won't walk out if she continues to sit on her butt.

I just told her I will always love her and support her no matter what, and that if I can count on her, she can count on me.  I lost my cool for a second when she said I don't show her that my love and support is solid, but turned it back around to validation.

[OnceConfused]

1, what does she do all day long while you are at work?

2. Set a clear budget with her so she can see why you need her to work , then stay firm on the budget.

3. You can begin with her, by saying

I really need your help. I think our financial situation has created some serious stress for me and ultimately to our relationship. Can you help me ? (then just stay silence and let her say whatever - I am sure she will try to re-direct the conv to GUILT , and you must bring back to the issue at hand - finance)

[Silveron]

Wait until she starts getting credit cards...  My wife ran up a ton of debt, I gave her close to probably 10k to help her.  I thought she would appreciate me helping her when she came to me.  Nope.  Two months later as I would open her credit card statements in the mail to make sure she was still on track, she would start yelling at me for opening her mail.  So I stopped helping her budget her money.  Needless to say she ran up those cards again and collections call every night.

I refuse to help her anymore, I literally pay all the bills and even though she works the money she earns is spent on herself.  She's lucky to even make it to the next paycheck.  She demanded her 'half' of the tax return last month so she could find an apartment.  I quickly jumped on that idea.  Well, $2k was spent on herself.  No apartment, no credit card payments.  I should've known...

Remember these BPDs have the emotional being of a teenager.  Their sense of responsibility in all facets are totally out of whack.

It's beyond frustrating.

[adventurer]

I'm fortunate in that my wife is not that large of a spender and is not too impulsive with it.  There is just a lot of small stuff that adds up.  She is especially fond of alternative medicine (chiropractor, acupuncture, Chinese herbs).

As far as what she does all day, it is mostly reading political blogs online and spending a lot of time on facebook.

[Dutched]

Adventurer, just seen this older topic

I just posted about finances on the staying board.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=274576.0;all

My comment is copied from an older topic and might be of any help

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=232471.0

Please try to rationalize matters

#Gather your bank statements / credit card info, bills etc over the last 12-24 months!

#Use Excel; per month incoming and outgoing (house/insurances/car/cloths (per family member, etc)

#Print it and back it up by statements, etc.

#Prepare your “case” well, handle it as a normal business meeting

Create a nice atmosphere! As even when you will calmly “confront” her, be prepared for distraction (I don’t believe it / you made a mistake / you bought that / etc.). All the twists as you write.

So:

# Ask questions (!)

Do not question her 2 pairs of shoes per month (get it? ) only the TOTAL of cloths.

DO ask how can WE change spending on X (so it will be HER idea(!), but guard your boundaries!

# Make notes of her ideas and immediately adjust your printed copy! Immediately!

Indeed as she is confronted with facts, prepare for upheaval, deflecting, not taking responsibility.

AHA, responsibility, now were are getting some where!

You, in a direct and firm way must set the boundaries, as you proved she has a hole in her hand (similar of the hole in the bucket from Harry Bellafonte )

# You prepared a 2nd sheet (SURPRISE) well balanced! So YOUR idea!

AND prepare on that

Monthly transfer of an amount to a savings account (future/car/unplanned events). You decide!

# Compare both and “discuss” briefly, then adjust the amounts (you thought X, she X1, but you can live with it, or stick to your X)

Now, this far, do NOT allow any details to distract you.

2nd bank account for daily living costs only. THAT will be the account for her to manage! Tell her, and tell her to stay away from the “main account” unless discussed!

# You retreat and finalize!

# Check every bank statement, etc.!

Make her see that you check it (if asked why, for “us” for our family, our future).Let her see that you are in control, your boundary will not be violated!

# Stick to it and once a month create a nice atmosphere in order to talk about the progress (yes, emphasize the positive, as pwBPD are prone to receive compliments, like an 4 yr. old).

# set mutual goals, summarize each subject AND make notes for the next month.

[adventurer]

Thanks Dutched.

Last month I actually started an excel spreadsheet and I am tracking every penny by some fairly narrow categories to hopefully build a rational basis for discussion just as you suggest.

[milesperhour]

Yeah, it sounds cut & dry, in a way. The person I'm interacting with, keeps talking about work, but nothing ever manifests. After ten years, and no work, I think you can reasonably say that your person isn't going to. Best of luck with whatever decision you make. 

Hey Adventurer,

Your topic is really a question of "How do we motivate unemployed pwBPD?"  I know, right? Does anybody have a suggestion? 

My H has not worked in nine years, self medicates, and does nothing, I mean nothing, around the house.  We have no savings, no retirement, no means of education for our kids, no vacations, etc. (And this is my fault, he says, since I am such a horrible money manager, and he would do a much better job of it.)  I am grateful and content with just having a place to sleep and food to eat, but it is just so unfair that I have to work so hard while he lays around.  I do not feel that I deserve for my life to be fair; nobody else's is fair.  But I would like to hear some suggestions, please.   

Some old posts regarding laziness that I found somewhat helpful / can relate to:

"One thing that seems to help occasionally (keep in mind that I've pretty much given up on consistent domestic particpation) is to ask my H to do one very specific task that has a definite deadline (i.e. take garbage to curb on Friday morning) that sort of request seems to get me the best results."

"I found that when we started going to couples counseling together, and he started hearing the opinion of someone else, not friend or family, he took her opinion more seriousely."

"I give him a list at the beginning of the week with all small things I need him to help with such as, cleaning out the cupboards, hanging a picture etc... .He does them at his own pace so, he doesn't feel like I am controlling him by making him do something right then and there ... .When there is a big job, I always get another male family or friend member to help him so, there is no choice but to get it done and then he sees the other male not complaining about it."

"My latest tactic is to just pretend that I am living without him.  If he were not here, I would be doing everything myself anyway.  So, since I am already doing everything myself, fantasizing that I am doing it for me and my kids, and not for him in any way, is very empowering."

"I clean some of her stuff just because I cannot stand the unsanitary enviroment. But I try not to do her stuff."

"I'm sure I'll get slammed but I gave up trying to get my BP spouse to do anything.  I just do it. It's not perfect ... .but it's what I did and that's all I can do."