Hi, it's been awhile since I've been here... I feel like the "sick" one now...

[Parents! Get help here!]

 :'(

Hi,

It has been quite awhile since I've popped on and in reading my last posts, I am flabbergasted that (1) nothing has changed for borderline daughter, but I am sicker, and (2)  excuse the French, but what the heck is wrong with ME that I can't stop believing I can somehow STILL help her?

In brief, borderline daughter is 24 almost 25.  Does not go to college anymore (tried a few, plus tech schools.  As soon as it gets just a bit "hard" she drops.  And not even ON TIME to get a refund; procrastinates until no refund of any amount is given.  Plus did not even return books (across the street!), thus, huge fees. Between what we originally saved up for her over the years and is lost, she is thousands of dollars in debt with student loans).  Hospital trips became so frequent she is banned from several in the area (has all the tools she needs after numerous stays, she says of course has NO tools).  Goes out of network and racks up huge medical bills.  Has doctor hopped to get diagnosed with some strange genetic disease I've never heard of and less than 1% of the population has, but SHE has it, although it ALWAYS shows up in early childhood but she says "oh, a LOT of people don't get diagnosed until their 20's.  Educate yourself, okay?"  Still does the bouts of suicide threats/cutting.  Still engaged (but he's getting annoyed, finally.  He's a high functioning Asperberger's so this relationship is very toxic.  However, he avoids confrontation and just forks over credit card when she's in trouble, which is a lot, but blows up about it later.  They both enable each other in different ways).

Since (and before) college began and ended, she cannot hold employment longer than 3-5 months.  She works, saves a bit to "tide her over," gets fired, lives on her small amount for a few months, repeat.  She is, seriously, on about her 13th job now at the age of 24.  And not ONE good reference can she get from ANY employer, because it's always on bad terms she quits or is fired, and it's always THEIR fault.  If it gets hard, or someone looks at her wrong, or even small constructive criticism from a supervisor or coworker, she's done.  Out the door.  She then lies around on her computer all day while fiancé goes to work early and comes home very tired, needing his "decompression" time but she's all over him after being alone all day.  They fight.  He holds things in then blows (verbally) "will you EVER get and KEEP a job?"  He believes all her aches and pains, and I don't know if this is just an Asperberger's personality, I sincerely have not had time to look up HIS condition as I'm so occupied with borderline daughter, mom with dementia, diabetic husband, sister going blind from glaucoma... .

Over time, I've done all I can do.  I've been to all her psychiatric appts, having seen her be on every med under the sun that doesn't "agree with her system/gives me headaches/makes me faint/gains weight," etc. that finally, she was put on monthly injections.  I see no improvement, although I should know I shouldn't expect all that much.  She is and always will be in this pattern.  I just always have such hope that * something * will click, like losing her fiance, car to where she has to "stoop" to public transportation,  something.  But intellectually I know as long as people around her "do stuff" for her, why should she do anything?  Her dad detached long ago so I find myself not being able to talk about her, much less admit I attended a psych appt. or anything.  I don't enable with money.  But to me, MY TIME is not so much about money, it's time away from my mom, my sister, my dog/home, etc.  It's the fact they've added a fourth blood pressure med to my mix.  It's the fact my stomach is always churning and I'm tired, and she's having a ball.  I had to detach from facebook (don't miss it, ) as her posts of all lies I couldn't tolerate and the "sympathy" her friends give her.

I feel bad her fiancé does not know, even after a couple years, of her amount of debt.  Her taxes will always be confiscated (and if they marry, so will his).  They did push back the wedding to 2016--"no money."  REALLY?  She even had the nerve to say "doesn't the bride's parents pay for daughter's weddings?"  Dad said "not these days, babe.  Especially when said parents worked 50-60 hour weeks for YEARS for college and it was just money thrown away."

I'm in therapy with two different doctors for myself for these issues and it's helping.  I know I'm codependent, an empath, a mother who has already buried a daughter so is overcompensating with the last one.  I know I'm on a road to stroke or heart attack.  I've even told her as much and as cool as can be, said "I don't care. What about ME?"

This last job she lost was the last straw for my husband.  He pulled strings, it was a good job, with health benefits, for someone with no college, it was a dream job.  Lasted 3 weeks.  That's when he knew for sure, it will always be a vicious cycle and he got out.  I'm working on it.  Sorry for rambling, it's been way to long since I've been here and I need to come on more, and I will.  Yesterday was hubby and my 26th anniversary, and not a peep from daughter except a text (in my spam folder) telling me she needs new windshield wipers and her defrost doesn't work and oh, how dangerous... . 

[Ohiomom89]

 :'(

Hi,

It has been quite awhile since I've popped on and in reading my last posts, I am flabbergasted that (1) nothing has changed for borderline daughter, but I am sicker, and (2)  excuse the French, but what the heck is wrong with ME that I can't stop believing I can somehow STILL help her?

In brief, borderline daughter is 24 almost 25.  Does not go to college anymore (tried a few, plus tech schools.  As soon as it gets just a bit "hard" she drops.  And not even ON TIME to get a refund; procrastinates until no refund of any amount is given.  Plus did not even return books (across the street!), thus, huge fees. Between what we originally saved up for her over the years and is lost, she is thousands of dollars in debt with student loans).  Hospital trips became so frequent she is banned from several in the area (has all the tools she needs after numerous stays, she says of course has NO tools).  Goes out of network and racks up huge medical bills.  Has doctor hopped to get diagnosed with some strange genetic disease I've never heard of and less than 1% of the population has, but SHE has it, although it ALWAYS shows up in early childhood but she says "oh, a LOT of people don't get diagnosed until their 20's.  Educate yourself, okay?"  Still does the bouts of suicide threats/cutting.  Still engaged (but he's getting annoyed, finally.  He's a high functioning Asperberger's so this relationship is very toxic.  However, he avoids confrontation and just forks over credit card when she's in trouble, which is a lot, but blows up about it later.  They both enable each other in different ways).

Since (and before) college began and ended, she cannot hold employment longer than 3-5 months.  She works, saves a bit to "tide her over," gets fired, lives on her small amount for a few months, repeat.  She is, seriously, on about her 13th job now at the age of 24.  And not ONE good reference can she get from ANY employer, because it's always on bad terms she quits or is fired, and it's always THEIR fault.  If it gets hard, or someone looks at her wrong, or even small constructive criticism from a supervisor or coworker, she's done.  Out the door.  She then lies around on her computer all day while fiancé goes to work early and comes home very tired, needing his "decompression" time but she's all over him after being alone all day.  They fight.  He holds things in then blows (verbally) "will you EVER get and KEEP a job?"  He believes all her aches and pains, and I don't know if this is just an Asperberger's personality, I sincerely have not had time to look up HIS condition as I'm so occupied with borderline daughter, mom with dementia, diabetic husband, sister going blind from glaucoma... .

Over time, I've done all I can do.  I've been to all her psychiatric appts, having seen her be on every med under the sun that doesn't "agree with her system/gives me headaches/makes me faint/gains weight," etc. that finally, she was put on monthly injections.  I see no improvement, although I should know I shouldn't expect all that much.  She is and always will be in this pattern.  I just always have such hope that * something * will click, like losing her fiance, car to where she has to "stoop" to public transportation,  something.  But intellectually I know as long as people around her "do stuff" for her, why should she do anything?  Her dad detached long ago so I find myself not being able to talk about her, much less admit I attended a psych appt. or anything.  I don't enable with money.  But to me, MY TIME is not so much about money, it's time away from my mom, my sister, my dog/home, etc.  It's the fact they've added a fourth blood pressure med to my mix.  It's the fact my stomach is always churning and I'm tired, and she's having a ball.  I had to detach from facebook (don't miss it, ) as her posts of all lies I couldn't tolerate and the "sympathy" her friends give her.

I feel bad her fiancé does not know, even after a couple years, of her amount of debt.  Her taxes will always be confiscated (and if they marry, so will his).  They did push back the wedding to 2016--"no money."  REALLY?  She even had the nerve to say "doesn't the bride's parents pay for daughter's weddings?"  Dad said "not these days, babe.  Especially when said parents worked 50-60 hour weeks for YEARS for college and it was just money thrown away."

I'm in therapy with two different doctors for myself for these issues and it's helping.  I know I'm codependent, an empath, a mother who has already buried a daughter so is overcompensating with the last one.  I know I'm on a road to stroke or heart attack.  I've even told her as much and as cool as can be, said "I don't care. What about ME?"

This last job she lost was the last straw for my husband.  He pulled strings, it was a good job, with health benefits, for someone with no college, it was a dream job.  Lasted 3 weeks.  That's when he knew for sure, it will always be a vicious cycle and he got out.  I'm working on it.  Sorry for rambling, it's been way to long since I've been here and I need to come on more, and I will.  Yesterday was hubby and my 26th anniversary, and not a peep from daughter except a text (in my spam folder) telling me she needs new windshield wipers and her defrost doesn't work and oh, how dangerous... . 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Mike-X]

I am sorry for all that you are going through. I haven't followed your posts. What have you tried to do to help her with her BPD? Has she seen a specialist?

[meantcorn34]

What an awful load to bear! My heart goes out to you. Please take care of yourself. You have nothing to give if you keep making yourself sick. The only thing I can share is my experience. I had to allow my son to be responsible for his mental health - or lack of. He makes and keeps his own appointments. He will ask for a ride sometimes, but that's it. I have found that me dragging him there was of no use as it was what I wanted not what he wanted.


I am responsible for my own mental and physical health. So, when your daughter doesn't seem  to care when you tell her the impact she is having on your health, YOU care about you. I believe our children will find someone else to meet their needs when we are gone, and that we can safely pull back some now. My T tells me to let my son learn to manage on his own while I am alive and able to help him. It has been surprising how much he does on his own - not necessarily the way I want, but good enough.  It makes for much less conflict between us and less stress on me. Natural consequences truly are the best teacher.

You can still be a loving parent with a close relationship with your daughter if you step back and allow her to own her life experiences and choices. Don't block her experiencing the consequences of her poor choices. It's the way we all learn.

Please take good care of yourself. The world needs a happy, healthy you. There are way too many martyrs all ready.

I wish you peace.

[lbjnltx]

Hello Ohiomom 

Good to see you back though I am sorry that you are suffering so much.  Our stress levels do affect our physical health... not just mental and emotional well being.

I read this statement once... .don't know who wrote it and I keep it in the back of my mind... ."when we care more than our disordered loved one we set ourselves up for suffering"

You continue to fret and worry while she continues to get by and carry on. 

She is making it one day at a time.  Who knows when she will want better and make changes.  It is possible for this to happen at any time.  Can you take a step back and let her fully own it... .not just not interfere with the natural consequences... .mentally give it to her too?

I wonder if you might find this information helpful:

Radical Acceptance for Family Members

When I find myself thinking and speaking the terms "always" and "never" it is signal to  me that I am in emotional mind... .these are black and white terms.  I can get in wisemind when I make the effort to and this helps me radically accept the current situation and see the temporary nature of it.  If you need help with defining and understanding wisemind please click on this link to the Wisemind Workshop.

We are here to help Ohiomom.  With support, encouragement, understanding and skills we can all ease our suffering and heal ourselves, our relationships and help our children.

Change begins with self.   


lbj

[tristesse]

hi Ohiomom

Your daughter sounds just like mine, they could almost be the same person.

I Want to ask you, does she suffer with other illnesses? Is there more than just the BPD going on with her? She just sounds so much like my own DD, that I had to ask.

I can not detach from my daughter either, I have tried and tried, but the truth is, I am really all she has in this world. I am the only person in her life that even cares a whit about her anymore. I used to struggle with the need to detach, I used to pray to God to just release me from the hell that she causes. I no longer do that.

I have learned to NOT react, I will NOT engage in battle anymore. She still rages and it still upsets me, but I refuse to respond or react, except and unless her little boy is the focus of the rage, I will step in and deflect the blows ( so to speak ) from him.

I have no advice to give you that will make much of a difference, so I will just say this. Your feelings are valid and true, the way you love your daughter is selfless and that is not wrong. She may never be better, that is just a cold hard fact, so instead of concentrating on helping her, concentrate on how to help yourself deal with her. Once you figure out how not to react, your life will start to get better, little by little.

TAKE CARE OF YOUR MY FRIEND.

[rationalmind]

Hi Ohiomom,

I'm so sorry you are going through this.  I have been told that letting our BPD children face "natural consequences" is the only way they can improve--so losing jobs, relationships, etc are natural consequences and better if we are not involved in them.  It is so hard to do this. I watched extended family deal with an undiagnosed BPD child who was enabled and never held down a legal job--now in 40's is on the run from the law despite folks thinking he was getting better.  Not saying every outcome is like this, I think a lot of BPDs do get significantly better in their 30s and 40s (at least regarding impulsivity and self harm, the black and white thinking is harder to overcome).  My DD just turned 18 and had the choice between staying at home with our full support while attending an outpatient rehab program and chose to move out ten days ago because she can't live without marijuana (she at least finally admits she has a drug problem).  I'm not quite sure how she is surviving--right now couch surfing and god knows what else but she has no money, no job, no driver's license or car (probably a good thing).  I believe that she will find others to help her and will need to burn through those relationships.  We are moving cross country in two months and she knows she can't come with unless she meets our expectations for treatment.  But she is finally taking responsibility for herself after several years.  Yes I do fear she will fall back into hard drugs, end up on the street, etc.  But I've actually come to peace that this is the best for her--if she wants my help she knows what to do, but she has to live her own life and learn from her own choices.  I used to wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat panicking.  I'm starting to have some peace about this.  I think your DD has shown some positive traits. She is in a committed relationship, has tried to find jobs, and does seek care for her condition even though she may not accept everything.  I'm only early in this process but am thinking that validation and emotional support when asked are important but you have to take care of yourself first or you will in the end not be able to help her or be healthy for your family.  Best wishes to you

[thefixermom]

My D38 would happily allow me to be her appointment maker, chauffeur, cook, dishwasher, therapist (listen to all her stories), punching bag, bill payer, grocery shopper, excuse maker, telephone answerer, bedmaker, laundromat, and on and on, if I let her.  We have been in the pits before and I remember how ill it made my husband and I to be so filled with worry, enmeshment and rescuing.  It's difficult to detach and preserve one's well being.  I started telling myself it was better to have one well person and one sick person than to have two sick people.  I think perhaps your husband is setting a good example for you to follow.  I'm sure he misses the real you, the vibrant and happy you and he probably feels a bit alone and may be detaching from you, too, for his well being.  If that's the case (may not be), I hope you will start joining him and rebuild his confidence and trust in you. I did that in my marriage after years of my husband's longsuffering with my worry, guilt, sacrifice and countless sleepless nights and fun times that I denied us because of my overwhelming worry and care for my D. 

[Ohiomom89]

Thank you ALL so much.  I just spent a couple of pretty good hours with DD at her apartment.  She seems very happy and not much in a hurry to find yet another job (put in one application the past 2 weeks).  As has been the pattern, she will get one when she's down to her last dollar.

You have all made very valid points and gave great tips.  After trying everything under the sun (and several times over), we found the detaching part somewhat easier (comes in spurts) in the past couple of years that she has had her boyfriend and lives with him.  She is not really "seeking care" of her own will, unfortunately; it's a condition of OURS that she keep up with therapy and thus, we will keep her on our health insurance.  She signed a waiver to give us access to her medical records and talk to the therapists (have not called in awhile though, so getting better at that).  Most of feedback has been she is "quiet, obviously looking around room for distraction, will only speak up when she vehemently disagrees with something, she doesn't think she has any problems--it's other people who are stupid and she has no time for that, wants to be validated for all her many medical issues, deflects blame always to others."

My husband is SO fed up with her but bless his heart, he is so patient with me and if I go on a rant, he'll say "let's now talk about what WE are going to do this weekend" or whatever.  He listens to a point if it's something major (never really is) like a cutting episode or supposed overdose of pills but he just says, ah, like she did before... .reminding me that she's repeatedly done these threatening things and it has always been "fine."  We do want her to suffer her own consequences as we know, intellectually, that by NOT letting her learn, we are not helping her, only stunting her growth.  We grow from experience and mistakes.  But my excuse was always "yeah, a person with a normal thinking pattern learns from mistakes.  She is DISORDERED.  We HAVE to intervene!"  But time after time after time, it's been proven when she HAS to do something, she can and does.  Oh, she will yell, say we don't love her, go on silent treatment spells (never long), etc.  But all crises always blow over.

Today's visit I did notice a lot of times she would try to steer a conversation back to therapy and how she was "grossly Misdiagnosed" and now believes she "just has Generalized Anxiety Disorder."  As Tristesse asked, does she have other disorders with the BPD?  Yes, anxiety.  That's all, officially, and the BPD.  Now according to HER, she's had: agoraphobia (went 2 weeks without leaving apartment until I asked her to a movie and she was out the door pronto), Massive Depressive Disorder (which she "snaps" in and out of according to HER schedule and that's not how it works... .), Bi-Polar, Binge Eating Disorder (it was her way to explain a 25 lb gain, it had nothing to do with her and bf ordering two large pizzas every night at 10 pm then going to bed), this new bone disease thing that less than 1% of the population has, Heart Disease, a brain tumor, migraines, knee disorders (floating patellas, whatever that is, ), Appendix pain (checked out 4 times by 4 hospitals, no issues), and I could go on. I don't understand how/why she posts all this on facebook, too.  Well, sympathy, I guess?    When I was on FB I would see her posts and shudder; then I would get sad, because I'd look up her high school friends and some are married, they all graduated college and are moving on with their lives.  I longed for the time my D would be old enough to come visit me, maybe take ME to lunch, attend her college graduation, help plan her wedding to the right man (her fiancé, unfortunately, is NOT it--it's the first guy she's ever even dated then she pushed for "engagement" fast and SHE proposed).  I've had to let go of a lot of hopes/dreams and that is/was hard.

Anyway, it's been a long time since I've read some of my BPD reference material and also, surfed this site so I need to do that again.  It's pretty easy to get slowly "sucked in" and ten steps forward, twenty steps back.  But I like what one poster said, it's better to have one well person and one sick person than to have two sick people.  I know I'm no good to anybody if I let myself go.  I have a son as well (younger than D who is in college and has been on the Dean's List 6 semesters in a row now, so maybe I've done something right... .), my husband, a sick mom & sister who need me to stay well... .and my bestie, a year old Cavalier spaniel that brightens up every day and forces me to get out and walk, etc.   

[thefixermom]

Are you sure you don't have my daughter and husband?  hehe, just having a light moment at the familiarity and predictability.  Your hubby sounds like a true gem, as is mine... .not perfect but as close as I think we can get in this world.  It's funny, too, how we will take turns getting week.  My husband was the strong one for so many years and recently, now that I'm feeling strong and centered and doing well overall with my daughter, I have noticed him get weak a time or two with her and he will look at me knowingly and say, "God is showing me what you felt when you were struggling with this!"  And he is her stepdad... .she was 19 when we married... .  so I'm pretty impressed with him for caring so much.

I'm proud of you, Ohiomom89.   Keep on keeping on as they say and take as best care of yourself as you can. And pray, if you are so inclined.   xoxo