Am I just being charmed back in or can she actually change?

[chada]

Hi All,

First time posting on the boards - have been reading for the past few weeks and it has been an immense help. Thanks to all of you for being here.

A bit of background, had been with my GF for about 2.5 years - not a diagnosed BPD but exhibits all the traits (the splitting, projection, intense anger etc). Her mum has been diagnosed with a PD and has been in T and on meds in the past. Has a history of family problems during her childhood. Her parents are in the process of going through a divorce atm.

We have broken up/recycled once before (when she threathened to self hurt, told me that she had done so in the past and then told me that she had made all that up to get her way) but got back together a couple of months later.

For the last few months we have been long distance as she has had to move back home due to visa issues.

Increasingly, she had become incredibly insecure. She was constantly wanting assurance of where I was and who I was with. She would become jealous if I spent significant time with family/friends and needed me to call her from work everyday for a significant amount of time, which you can imagine was difficult for my boss to understand.  She would not let me speak to a friend who was a girl and I havent spoken to this friend for months now, which I feel quite bad about.

She was in a constant state of projection, blaming me for everything she was upset at, including the most trivial things. There was the constant name calling, curses and some really hurtful things.   - she always says it because of the horrible things I have done to her.

I genuinely feel I cant have an open and honest conversation with her about any of the things we need to talk about. She will either react really harshly and bring certain past issues up or simply refuse to talk to me if she doesnt like what she is hearing (hang up and not come back for a while). I was always apologising for things I didnt feel sorry for and would always back down from any disagreements, even if I felt otherwise. I am probably at fault here because I didnt enforce my boundaries, but I was always so afraid of the ramifications that I took whatever she threw at me.

Eventually this put a strain on me and I cracked. I told her why I feel our relationship isnt working and effectively cut her off (went more or less NC for the last 3/4 weeks).

We've had a couple of emails back/forth where she seems surprisingly logical and willing to work on the issues we have in our relationship  - we have had disagreements on family (she doesnt get along with my sister and thinks I am too attached to her), money (saving/spending etc) and her possesiveness.  She says that because I simply cut her off we never got a chance to discuss all of these issues. I'm not sure if she feels we can genuinely address these or whether she is just saying these things to charm me in.

I have gone back to her asking her if she will consider therapy, because there is no way that we could work together without her being able to. What worries me is that I am not sure whether she could change even if she did get therapy.

As I have mentioned we have been more or less NC for the last few weeks bar 2 emails, but I today emailed back saying I would speak to her on the weekend. Not sure this is the right decision.

I am quite confused... .

[Meadowslark]

Hey Chada, welcome aboard! 

It's not easy to be in a relationship with a BPD whether it be romantic or familial. They all read out of the same playbook - push/pull, splitting, irrationality, rages, lack of personal responsibility, emotional immaturity... . It's crazy to think that all these people, who don't know each other, behave in the same manners.

While I don't know you or her personally, I'd be suspicious if my ex acted irrationally during our relationship and when we broke up, suddenly became logical and rational. She's blaming you for "not fixing/being able to discuss" the problems in the relationship when you earlier explained that you tried to bring up issues, but she would ignore you, not speak or rage.

Do you believe she can change and not act out this way while in a relationship? Obviously she's able to control herself to some degree - she's showing you right now. But where was that control while in the relationship?

BPDs are very charming - they use lures to bring people close to them (pulling), use them to fill their own needs and then become overwhelmed when relationships progress to being more intimate. That is what triggers the push, the devaluation, the rages. But they fear being abandoned, so after the push comes the pull and the cycle repeats.

I'm not telling you what to do, just several   pop up in your description of your relationship with this girl. She's blaming you for things  that are not your fault (saying, "you broke it off before we could discuss things" [which is a lie, because you tried]), she was possessive of you and your time, she used threats to control your behaviors... .

Do you really want a relationship with this person? Honestly, her response to you screams "lure", like the light an angler fish uses to catch prey. Suddenly she's logical, suddenly she's "willing" to work on things, but still blaming you for things she is responsible for in the same breath. Just my 2c!

[felix22]

All of what you've described sounds frustrating, for sure. The thing that gets me though, is this:

"we have had disagreements on family (she doesnt get along with my sister and thinks I am too attached to her)".

People that start inserting their take on one's family, S*U*C*K! What right does she have to say that you are too close to your sister? It's your sister, not hers! I would not even argue with her about that subject. It's none of her business, or anyone else's, except for you and your family's. If you end up with this neurotic leech, I hope that you don't ever let her mess up your relationship with your family!

It's difficult, I know, I'm in the same situation. They'll never stop blindsiding us with their complete lack of logic and sanity. We are the only one's who can look out for ourselves though; whether that means leaving, or enforcing our boundaries/deciding what we will not accept from these people.

[chada]

Thanks Meadow and Felix for your replies.

You both raise some very good points - its true that the push/pull behavior is there and it has always been. There have been so many times when she has told me 'I want out', not spoken to me for a period and then come back. And these should have served as red flags, in addition to all the other things. And if she wasn't able to control herself before , why would she able to now?

Felix, your mention about family is right on. She has put some strain on the relationship between me and my sister and that's not healthy. She has numerous explanations about this (my sister was not as receptive to her, my sister has ruined things so we cant have a nice family etc) but this should still not sabotage my relationship with my sister.

Realistically, I have reached that stage where I think I don't want to continue with this and hence me cutting it off. But I am incredibly attached to this girl and it is quite difficult to do this now. I know this will take its toll on her and I worry a lot about whether she will cope, get on with what she needs to do etc.

I know when I speak to her tomorrow I have to be firm about my decision - I guess I will provide you folks with an update tomorrow.

Thanks

[EaglesJuju]

Hi Chada, 

Welcome aboard.

I am sorry that you are going through this.    I understand how difficult it is to cope with jealous or insecure behaviors. 

Abandonment issues are very common with people with BPD (pwBPD).  The distance between you and her most likely triggers her abandonment fears. PwBPD tend to react to perceived abandonment or rejection with anger or projection.

BPD behaviors can be hurtful, confusing, and frustrating. It can be hard to have an open conversation about serious things with a pwBPD.  I had a very hard time communicating with my pwBPD for a long time. I felt like I was banging my head against a wall. I continued to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results.  I kept triggering my pwBPD by the way I was communication. Then I learned about communication techniques. They not only helped me be able to articulate and discuss my feelings and needs, they helped my pwBPD feel more comfortable to open up.

Many times pwBPD are hypersensitive to anything that they perceive as negative or criticism. As a result, there is a tendency for pwBPD to engage in maladaptive coping mechanisms such as avoidance, shutting down, dissociating, withdraw, and isolation.

Here is an article that really helped me out. Take a look.

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

Do you feel like you will be able to address your issues with her behavior?

[Lucky Jim]

We have broken up/recycled once before (when she threathened to self hurt, told me that she had done so in the past and then told me that she had made all that up to get her way)

Hey Chada, Threatening self-harm in order to manipulate you, needless to say, is a big red flag  and typical for a pwBPD.  I am quite familiar with this type of BPD behavior.  Pretending to hurt oneself in order to get attention -- crying wolf -- is a symptom of a disordered personality.       I was quite naive about this tactic, but of course at that time had never heard about BPD.  For you, it's different.  Suggest you tread carefully and keep good boundaries until you figure out what to do.

LuckyJim

[downwhim]

Chada,/

It is so common that they blame others and it is all your fault. Remember you have a choice to reclaim your life. That is what many of us on here are trying to do.

Her issues are hers alone. Be strong. The only thing that kept me clear is N?C. I had to do it for my own sanity. I was either going to explode on him which would have gotten me nowhere or stay as far away as possible and learn, ready and detach. I chose the later... . you need to do what is best for you. She obviously needs a lot of help.

[Svarl1]

Hi Chada,

You are clearly very attached to this girl or you wouldn't be agonising so deeply.

But ask yourself, is this any way to live?

The sudden improvement of behaviour reminds me of my partner after I once left her after months of violence and derogatory speech.

After going back the verbal abuse restarted but the violence stopped because she knows I would leave for good.

If you were to continue your rs then one way to encourage good behaviour is to have a zero tolerance policy: the moment she gets unreasonable then you're out the door.

But this will be very stressful for you both.

1. She will push your boundaries beginning very gradually,  like the thin end of a wedge.

2. If she uses threats against herself or a 3rd party it may be very hard to  resist.

3. If you were to have a child together that will be another way to manipulate you and you will end up sacrificing your own welfare to try and protect the child.

Best of well out in my opinion, but good luck whatever you decide.

[chada]

Thank you all for your replies - they shed a lot of perspective, especially since all of you have had experience with pwBPDs before.

Eagles, thanks very much for the information on communication techniques. I have been reading up on them and hope to try apply some of them when I speak to her next. I have never really tried these before so it is hard for me to say whether they will help her control her rages, emotions better but will try tomorrow.

Jim - yes, the self harm episode was a big red flag and I somehow chose to ingore it and get back together.   As you suggest, the only way for her to realise that this isnt acceptable is through me enforcing rigid boundaries.

Whim and Svarl thank you for your words of reassurance. Its this feeling of 'is this the right way to live', can I keep this up for long that prompted me to leave. And the sudden improvement is sometimes genuinely scaring me - if she can consiously switch so suddenly then is she just saying what I want to hear? If so, she will fall right back to her old ways once I go back to her.

As you both say, I need to do whats best for me. Currently my mindset points me to leaving and walking away from this. I am going to speak to her tomorrow and hopefully I will keep firm through this.

Once again, thanks very much to all of you for your advise and insights. I will let you know how it goes tomorrow.

[chada]

So a brief update:

Spoke to her for a fair bit today, she seemed very willing to hear things out and see my side of things. She acknowledges that she has not been open to conversation and so on and how that has hurt our relationship.

She thinks we can work on our problems together - she is willing to go for therapy, and I am willing to go for some myself. We have spoken about the issues like family etc with her seeming to understand how her earlier mindset was not healthy.

We have left it fairly amicably at the moment, without any pressure.

Now it is just for me to think about whether the behaviour we had today where we were really open with each other or whether this was just a way to get me to talk and that she will be back to her old way in a bit. 

Needless to say, I'm still pretty confused about it

[felix22]

Yep, let's see how long she will go to therapy for. I've been where you are at, I think. The point where you still question if this s*h*I*t is real or not. If you are going to stick with it, for the sex, or whatever else, love, etc., as I have done, be prepared. I would find some boundary that you want, or need and stick to it, even if it's not totally necessary. Just to give you a place to stand firm. For example, if she talks about your sister in a negative way, you will leave. Or, anything else. To show her that you aren't someone to be toyed with.

God, if you stay with her, for sure use a condom. Or, get your tubes tied. Cause, you're walking on thin ice, no doubt.

Also, if you're feisty and deal with anger issues, as I do, the best thing that helped me/helps me, is leaving once it gets hot. Hanging up the phone before arguments escalate. Walking out the door, before the crud hits the fan. A good habit. My BPD ex tried to explain to me, how bad that was; leaving. My therapist disagreed and supported walking away. People really can get hurt in these situations, so get ready to walk out.

Better yet, if you are this early in... .why make the same mistakes that we have all made and stay in it, until you feel the burden of a heavy weight? I was a bit lonely before I started seeing my BPD ex. Looking back, I realize that what I interpreted as being lonely, was actually a feeling of being 'without weight' on my shoulders. It was a difficult lightness. Yet, in contrast, it was better than the burden of being in relation with her.

[chada]

Hi Felix,

Firstly, apologies for my delayed response - I have been largely cut off from the internet due to travel.

Yes, I need to come to terms with whether to stick with it or not and whether this is real. And if I do I will need to enforce my boundaries pretty strictly.

I am going to be speaking my counsellor today about my thoughts - regarding the anger issues, I agree leaving is probably a sensible thing to do. I never used to do this - initially I used to get pretty fiesty and then it got to the stage where I wouldnt say anything or react at all - none of which are healthy. I guess it comes back to the boundaries piece and her getting that angry is not something I should tolerate.

Logically, you are right - if I am this early in and I stand to lose more in the long run then I should get out now. Its just coming to terms with that emotionally which is what I need to do.

I have some heavy thinking up ahead but thank you all for all your replies and support so far. I will let you know what my counsellor says and what I end up deciding I guess... .

[felix22]

Yeah, I hear you. The logic and the emotion are two completely different facets. It's hard to get them to line up. I feel the same way. Glad you are going to see a counselor! That should be a relief. Have a good day.