Gearing up for court

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My ex wants to keep all communication to text or email which is what ive been wanting from the start. It really puts her at a disadvantage because she cant stick to the basics and facts and usually goes into her abusive behavior. I have been just ignoring a lot of her texts that were nonsense and abusive, should I respond and keep the dialog going to show how she co parents with me? I don't want to look like im arguing with her but I don't know if ignoring her is good either.

When I do respond I am always civil and keep to the facts and don't put emotion in it, that seems to enrage her more. I refuse to give her the conflict that she is after.

Would taking a parenting class help my case and show the judge that I am serious about getting primary custody of my daughter. I have raised my 11 year old son by myself so I don't really need the class but if it helps I will do it.

[Eco]

My ex wants to keep all communication to text or email which is what ive been wanting from the start. It really puts her at a disadvantage because she cant stick to the basics and facts and usually goes into her abusive behavior. I have been just ignoring a lot of her texts that were nonsense and abusive, should I respond and keep the dialog going to show how she co parents with me? I don't want to look like im arguing with her but I don't know if ignoring her is good either.

When I do respond I am always civil and keep to the facts and don't put emotion in it, that seems to enrage her more. I refuse to give her the conflict that she is after.

Would taking a parenting class help my case and show the judge that I am serious about getting primary custody of my daughter. I have raised my 11 year old son by myself so I don't really need the class but if it helps I will do it.

[JayApril]

I am in the same boat. I think parenting classes are a great idea. What I did was make my boundaries clear with my ex.

Only contact me through email

I will only contact him when LO is sick

I also make sure that I put the ball back into his court.

For instance, he has asked in the past if I needed anything. I responded "do not wait wait for me to ask for something. It will not happen. If you want to help out then help". Sometimes you have to push that ball back into their court so that they are compelled to make a conscious decision for themselves.  I think as parents we forget that part of their disorder inhibts them to a co-dependant state of mind. They often look to someone else to tell them what they should do, or to validate their decisions as good or bad. By pushing them to think independantly it allows them to show their true character more. Which is what you want in a court battle. Invite her to parenting classes with you. Therefore she has to make a choice, and prove she wants custody. Do not respond to abusive text, but document them all.

[Nope]

DH generally only responds to sentences that end with a question mark. And then only if they warrant a response. Mostly his ex just makes statements in her emails. Usually false statements looking for a fight. Those get ignored. If we are being court-minded, we look for physical evidence we can bring to court to show that those statements are false, but we don't bother telling her that. She doesn't care that what she's saying isn't true, she's just trying to get a reaction.

The thing you have to remember is that any reaction by you is perceived as an invitation to continue the behavior that got the reaction. Right now DH's ex feels like DH is ignoring her and giving her the silent treatment (because he has not reacted to her fight bait emails) so she has to try to ignore him and give him the silent treatment even more than what she thinks he's doing to her. Yay! NC! We keep sending BIFF emails that don't require any response. She keeps not responding. As far as I'm concerned, everybody is happy.   

[livednlearned]

Eco,

Has a lawyer talked to you about your goals, and outlined a strategy? That might help you focus your efforts.

Some people here over the years have talked about purposefully dysregulating their spouse in order to generate more documentation that they can use in court. I know you're not suggesting that, just wanted to point to it. My concern when people brought this up is the effect on the kids. Dysregulation tends to roll downhill, and your D is especially vulnerable because of her age. You're not trying to do that, but wondering whether to adjust tone in your emails or respond because it documents what is already going on. It can be a fine line trying to manage the fall out (if it can even be managed).

In court, my L could've sat there for months reading my ex's emails. Instead, what she did was to focus on a handful of things that supported the argument she was going to make. For example, my ex tended to send an excessive amount of emails. So L said, "Over the last several years, Mr. N/BPDx has sent more than 10,000 emails to my client, sometimes hundreds a day." Then she would give an example of the type of emails he sent. In the deposition, she read out every name he has called me and asked him to verify whether he had ever called me those names. She focused on this because my judge is an older Southern gentlemen type of guy and took a lot of offense to that kind of language.

In our hearings, anything that my L knew would rankle the judge got included as a way to support our goal.

It's hard to get all of this stuff organized -- there's so much to take in, and court is so opaque and lawyers are so expensive (plus no bedside manner). The more upfront effort you put into thinking about the goals and the strategy you think will work best, the more likely you'll increase the changes of a favorable outcome. It's tempting to focus on tactics because that's a lower-hanging fruit. But tactics that worked in my case might not be best for yours, and vice versa. Start with goals, then strategy, then tactics.

Also, the past hearings will start to really count. That was our strategy going forward from the first mediated order. Pointing out where N/BPDx was not able to follow the order. In my experience, that's what the court got really pissed about. Ask your L (even if only a consultation) what he or she knows about the judge. They should be tuned into that, otherwise they are hack lawyers who are just firing blanks in the dark.

[Eco]

DH generally only responds to sentences that end with a question mark. And then only if they warrant a response. Mostly his ex just makes statements in her emails. Usually false statements looking for a fight. Those get ignored. If we are being court-minded, we look for physical evidence we can bring to court to show that those statements are false, but we don't bother telling her that. She doesn't care that what she's saying isn't true, she's just trying to get a reaction.

I do the same thing, the ones I respond to are the ones that insinuate that im being neglectful to my daughter. The one that im not sure if I should respond to are the gas lighting and recreating the past. For instance, she recently claimed that I was late to the daycare for drop off when in fact I was early and waiting for her as normal, I have 2 witnesses and video to back that up but she wont let up on trying to make me believe that I was late.

Right now DH's ex feels like DH is ignoring her and giving her the silent treatment (because he has not reacted to her fight bait emails) so she has to try to ignore him and give him the silent treatment even more than what she thinks he's doing to her. Yay! NC! We keep sending BIFF emails that don't require any response. She keeps not responding. As far as I'm concerned, everybody is happy.   grin

the steps we have to go to for peace

Has a lawyer talked to you about your goals, and outlined a strategy? That might help you focus your efforts.

I haven't touched base with him in 6 months because I haven't had the funds to get started yet. Im almost to that point of calling him to get things rolling, I may touch base with him next week to get advice on this.

Some people here over the years have talked about purposefully dysregulating their spouse in order to generate more documentation that they can use in court. I know you're not suggesting that, just wanted to point to it. My concern when people brought this up is the effect on the kids. Dysregulation tends to roll downhill, and your D is especially vulnerable because of her age

I will be honest, That has crossed my mind a few times and I know which buttons to push to make her go off but I don't feel that its a right thing to do morally. The main reason I bite my tongue so much with my ex is so the kids don't get blasted more then they already do, I can leave they cant. That's where a lot of my frustration and anger towards my ex comes from right now, she holds her kids hostage, when my ex gets made at me the first person that pays the price is my daughter.

 

In court, my L could've sat there for months reading my ex's emails. Instead, what she did was to focus on a handful of things that supported the argument she was going to make.

Thats the same way we are going into court, the theme is how my ex has and is currently trying to keep me out of my daughters life since my daughter was born. I have had to claw and fight for anything and everything concerning my daughter. also we want to show how my ex will not co parent and wont share parenting with me, does not include me in major decisions like she is supposed to. she cannot be fair or compromising if it involves me and its all her way or no way even at the expense or my daughters best interest. I have shown time and time again that I am fair and do make compromises and try and co parent with my ex.

The bright and obvious picture is this, My ex treats my daughter like property ( kind of like a car ) and she sees me as someone wanting to borrow her property ( how dare I) to my ex I should have been happy to get my daughter when my ex felt like letting me have her for a few hrs here and there, And what really set my ex off was the fact that I took her to court to make her let me get my daughter. My ex will not let that go, to my ex im some pain in the butt trying to get her property ( my daughter ) and I just need to go away.

I feel more and more everyday that my ex is a narcissistic sociopath, the way she goes about getting her agenda met is chilling.

No empathy whatsoever , will use anyone or anything as a tool to get what she wants even if it destroys that person.  when my ex was pregnant with her second child ( about 2 years before I met her ) she fell and broke her leg, she has no family or support because she ran most of them off.  she couldn't work to pay her bills so she got this couple to adopt her baby on the condition that they pay all her bills, right before the baby was due she convinced the couple that the baby had down syndrome so they would back out and not adopt. I learned this from the father later on.

Also, the past hearings will start to really count. That was our strategy going forward from the first mediated order. Pointing out where N/BPDx was not able to follow the order. In my experience, that's what the court got really pissed about. Ask your L (even if only a consultation) what he or she knows about the judge. They should be tuned into that, otherwise they are hack lawyers who are just firing blanks in the dark.

WE plan on showing that as well, the same behavior from the start of the first order is going on now. It hasn't gotten better but worse, some courts like to see a cooling off period after a order but if anything its heated up on her end and will get worse if nothing is done. My lawyer knows the judges very well and actually has dinner with one of them. Ive been to court two times and ive seen 2 different judges, first time was the temp order and the judge threatened to charge my ex with contempt because she kept arguing with him. My exs pro bono lawyer actually told her to shut up as the judge barked " DO YOU WANT TO GO TO JAIL? ". The second time was the final order and that judge let my ex ramble on and avoid and dodge all my ex lawyers questions while on the stand, in the end the judge denied all my exs demands. I had a horrible lawyer for those two times, she was brand new and didn't want to fight for me and didn't include 80 % of my evidence. The right up was done poorly and left to many areas of grey and put me in a bad position, I had never been through court like that before so I had no clue. I was only allowed to see my daughter for 2 hrs a week so I was just thankful to get standard visitation, I didn't have the long term in sight and I regret that now.

[ForeverDad]

It is difficult, at least at first, to convince the court that the multitude of seemingly inconsequential incidents, obstructions and delays - mostly ignored by courts - does indicate a substantive problem that the court must address when making decisions.  Frankly, my conclusion has been that courts generally consider each each incident separately rather than together.  When that is done then lots of smaller incidents (that don't rise to the level of substantive child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment) are reduced to near zero - and the ex manages to keep flying underneath the court's radar.

That's where documenting a pervasive pattern is so crucial.  Whether the court will accept it, well, each time may be a crap shoot, that probably depends on the history of the case and the judge, but the longer this has been coming back to court the stronger your case that the patterns need to be addressed.  So, whatever you think the outcome might be, do try to get the patterns documented by the court, that way they can be referenced in the future and you may be able to convince the court that the recurring incidents and issues are more serious than they appear on the surface.

Of course, mention all the poor behaviors but keep in mind that courts give more weight to poor parenting behaviors than poor adult behaviors, such as ex's behavior with you, so give more emphasis to the parenting behaviors.  Also highlight how the children are (1) adversely impacted by ex's behaviors and (2) positively impacted by your stability and practical solutions.