Update on the progress

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Just an update on the progress.

Great meeting with the T. "She does that because it works; she'll do it until it stops working." -- with regard to me caving when she escalates, no boundaries, consequences, etc... .

Seeing the L tmw. Will draw up some plans, and perhaps a settlement offer. My leverage: I'm out of the house, and have a good job, and the joint account gets no more new money. Additionally, the house is a month to month lease. Will find out what's legal with regard to the joint account. I might not raid it, but my car needs some work, and there's a local fund raiser the stbx uBPDw will want to donate to. She finds out in roughly 12 days that the money has run out.

Progress: she's almost all packed up (at least she says so). She wants these financial forms filled out, and from what I can tell, they're from an out of state advisor/lawyer. She says financial advisor, but I'm thinking lawyer. I won't sign anything. I'll talk with the L before I meet with her. Voice recorder will be running (for protection, not for 'gotcha' moments).

She wants to go home. She's miserable and lonely. She's isolating herself, and she's thousands of miles away from her enablers back home.

Ion going to get my L to draft something quick (or draft it the following week). Just need something sweet enough to get her out.

Backup plan: hire movers to take my stuff to a new apartment, and leave her with s mostly empty place and no income. I don't want to do that, but she needs to go back home. If I can get her to sign, fine. If not I can pursue a default divorce.

I'm stressed, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Gomez

[gomez_addams]

Just an update on the progress.

Great meeting with the T. "She does that because it works; she'll do it until it stops working." -- with regard to me caving when she escalates, no boundaries, consequences, etc... .

Seeing the L tmw. Will draw up some plans, and perhaps a settlement offer. My leverage: I'm out of the house, and have a good job, and the joint account gets no more new money. Additionally, the house is a month to month lease. Will find out what's legal with regard to the joint account. I might not raid it, but my car needs some work, and there's a local fund raiser the stbx uBPDw will want to donate to. She finds out in roughly 12 days that the money has run out.

Progress: she's almost all packed up (at least she says so). She wants these financial forms filled out, and from what I can tell, they're from an out of state advisor/lawyer. She says financial advisor, but I'm thinking lawyer. I won't sign anything. I'll talk with the L before I meet with her. Voice recorder will be running (for protection, not for 'gotcha' moments).

She wants to go home. She's miserable and lonely. She's isolating herself, and she's thousands of miles away from her enablers back home.

Ion going to get my L to draft something quick (or draft it the following week). Just need something sweet enough to get her out.

Backup plan: hire movers to take my stuff to a new apartment, and leave her with s mostly empty place and no income. I don't want to do that, but she needs to go back home. If I can get her to sign, fine. If not I can pursue a default divorce.

I'm stressed, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Gomez

[gomez_addams]

Note: won't leave her destitute during or after the process. I will support if she stays to fight, but that support includes mainly rent/electric. My offer will be fair (based on several L's guess on spousal support, and 50/50 property split).

It's a short marriage, so at trial no alimony is possible... .But I don't feel like spending that much to continue the fight. I do intend to take away her ability to litigate. If she chooses to stay and get a job, I'll reduce my support accordingly. The goal -- get her to take money and run.

Gomez

ps -- how typical of a non that I feel the need to explain myself. LOL.

[GaGrl]

Make sure she doesn't get  a comfortable settlement check until she has signed all the divorce paperwork - wanting her to leave so quickly could tempt you to get ahead of yourself. Your L will guide you here.

Also, on the forms, just tell her you are working everything through your current state of residence, so won't be completing forms from out of state. You are correct... .that sounds like a lawyer, not a financial advisor.

[gomez_addams]

Make sure she doesn't get  a comfortable settlement check until she has signed all the divorce paperwork - wanting her to leave so quickly could tempt you to get ahead of yourself. Your L will guide you here.

Naturally.

Also, on the forms, just tell her you are working everything through your current state of residence, so won't be completing forms from out of state. You are correct... .that sounds like a lawyer, not a financial advisor.

Good call. She claims it's an out of state advisor, and there's s clue it might be. Shes requesting quarterly statements from investments... .That's pointless in this state. All that matters here is the start and end totals.

But she could have a local lawyer. She's very eager for me to fill out these forms.

I'll be careful.

Gomez

[ForeverDad]

Make sure she doesn't get  a comfortable settlement check until she has signed all the divorce paperwork - wanting her to leave so quickly could tempt you to get ahead of yourself. Your L will guide you here.

And I am inclined to add, "AND the paperwork is filed with the court and the judge has made it a court order."

Our natural 'non' inclination is to quickly gift away all our Leverage, reasonable people that we are.  However, when an acting-out PD could be involved, we can't expect reciprocation of our niceness.  So what Gagrl wrote definitely applies, make sure a substantial chunk of money or assets is held in escrow or wherever safe until the last of her obligations is completed or until the final decree, whichever is last.  Once your Leverage is gone, quite likely so is her willingness to cooperate.

[GaGrl]

Of course she's eager to have you complete the forms... .that tells her how much she can ask for!  This all sounds quite secretive and underhanded.  At the least, she's asking for financial/investing advice on $$$ that are imaginary for her at this point.

So... .if she has no in-state lawyer, who has made no request for disclosure of finances... .Gomez Adams completes no forms.

[livednlearned]

It's hard to act like you're divorced when you're technically still married, especially when you are going through the messy emotional detachment stage.

You are at the contract negotiation stage, and it's important to think like you are divorced. If that doesn't feel clear (because of the laws or whatnot), then it's best to only comply with requests that your lawyer approves. If you can't reach your lawyer, or don't want to spend the money to ask, then the answer is, "my L has not counseled me to send documents."

That's why there is the discovery phase with interrogatories and depositions. To deal with this very thing. It's a whole part of the process designed to help protect you while the contract ends.

My L would often say, "Blame it on me." In the beginning of my divorce, I would use her as a shield and it was really helpful. She didn't mind taking my ex's nerf bullets in the back. That's partly what we pay them for, to be the target.

[gomez_addams]

Note: had some posting issues... .Sorry if this posts several times.

Met with the L today.

Came up with a solid number on what property division would look like. Also took a look at what judges are awarding re: spousal support lately for marriages under seven years (with no kids). Basically came up with a settlement number that makes it tough for an opposing lawyer to advocate for a fight.

And it delays my plans, but doesn't kill them.

Plan A: offer her the settlement with screenshots of balances/debts on date of marriage and today. Offer her a generous (but less than she's spending) temp support if she buys a ticket and leaves. Obviously worded more tactfully than that. She wants to give documents to whomever is advising her, and this is a good deal for a rational person in her position. And it doesn't ruin me.

Plan B: she realizes the paycheck no longer goes to the joint account in under two weeks. Make reasonable use of the joint account, but don't raid it. If she leaves, the joint account is hers until she gets her own. Offer still stands.

Plan C: end of the month, movers come and take my stuff to a permanent place. My own bed. Air conditioning. My own fridge. Wandering the house on Saturday in my underwear. Double check the rules on terminating the lease and providing her the same support I offered previously. That support is awesome at mom's house. It's horrible out on the economy here. It's not bad on the economy back home. Offer still stands.

This eliminates the oft cited, "... .But you said" argument that I get guilted into. Allows me to be consistent throughout, even if I have to go to Plan C. If she does things really irrationally (stay and fight for her entitlements) I can reduce the offer by my estimated court costs and probably be in the same range after all is said and done.

The focus is on speed/time. I can make more money, but not more time. Additionally, no matter how she escalates, the offer never rises. I DEARMAN things she can do with that kind of filthy lucre. I probably won't use the phrase 'filthy lucre'... .

Feeling very good right now, mostly because of taking action, rather than incessant brainstorming and worrying.

Gomez

[GaGrl]

Talk to your L about how long each offer will be in effect. That is, "this offer is withdrawn if we do not hear from you by... ." Otherwise, she can keep you hanging through Plan C and then claim that she wants Plan A. And you can say, "No... .that offer was withdrawn as of this date."

[livednlearned]

Having a plan doesn't necessarily minimize her drama, but it can really minimize the reaction to her drama. Good that you have three plans in place.

Similar to what Gagrl was saying, it's always good to have some contingent consequences in these offers, because open-ended offers will get worked and worked and worked and exploited by someone with a PD.

So offer A stands until day/date. At which point it is off the table and only offer B and C stand.

My guess is that you have some deadlines worked into your deal because you are motivated to have her move out -- it's more the explicit nature of the consequences that can help move things along and avoid the circular arguments or exploitation of loopholes. That last one, the loopholes, really took me to the mat. Even if it did not benefit him, even if it made no sense, even if it was irrational to everyone in the room, N/BPDx would hammer on a loophole like his life depended on it. Even when there were no obvious gains to him, he felt the need to pound hard on whatever issue it was and win.

Your wife may not be as hell-bent as mine was, but reading what others have experienced here suggests that there is something about the stress of negotiations and divorce that brings out some of the most irrational difficult behavior.

[ForeverDad]

My ex was very entitled with our son, to the point that the custody evaluator's initial report observed in the conclusion, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."  By then there had been many 'unsubstantiated' allegations, she had adamantly fought to block me from son's therapists, provided no information to the court, etc.  It made no visible impact on the court.  Yes, every 2-3 years I fought in court for improvements and almost grudgingly got them as baby steps fixes, but until the last time the court never really "called it like it is" and even then it was muted.

What I'm saying is that dealing with court - as glacially slow as it is and as minimalistic approach as it takes - is often better than the stbEx, especially when children are involved.  However, don't ignore seeking a settlement that is not too unfair, just realize that with longer marriages or with children reaching a settlement is often closer to the endgame than the beginning.  Generally we work both angles, settlement attempts (the carrot) side by side with court process (the stick).  Together they work far better than separately.

[gomez_addams]

Thanks, everyone.

I see her tomorrow. Let's hope I can move her closer to buying a ticket home.



Gomez