Hello There. I Need Help.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Everyone has a long story, yet so many elements are the same.  I have long stood at the decision making crossroads and am so very stuck. I would appreciate any help in finding my path.

I am in my early 30s, and married my husband about two years ago. It was a whirlwind relationship, full of romance, exciting adventures in a city I was not enjoying living in, and promises of fullfilling my well-stated, deep-seated, life-long desires: marriage, two kids before I turned 35, a life filled with travel and interesting experiences.

We had sex 3 times on our 10 day honeymoon.  Not exactly what I was led to believe I would get.  We started having troubles shortly before we got married, mostly in planning the big wedding that he wanted, and yet I paid for and planned out, even though he had promised me that we were going to plan it jointly together.  (I wanted a small get together with immediate family and a few close friends).

Marriage has not at all been what I thought it would be. We live in his condo that he purchased long before he met me, and any attempt to look for a house together (also his idea), has turned into an exercise of every house I like he finds a reason to not like.  I ask him to find a house for us to look at since my picking skills are so bad, and he cannot find one house in the MLS that he wants to see.  We make about the same amount of money and can easily afford a house in our area.  Our realtor, who is a friend of mine, told me privately that my husband doesn't seem interested in buying a house. The only piece of furniture in the condo that is my own is a sewing desk he IKEA-hacked for me as a gift shortly after our wedding.  All my own furniture is in a storage unit with our textbooks, extra wedding gifts, etc that can't fit in the condo.  I feel reluctant to makeover or change his condo because it's legally not my property.  He has left a drain problem in the master bathroom to sit for over a year, and we have a bad spot on the kitchen ceiling from this.  I don't know why he is in such denial over this issue, and I refuse to call a plumber to bail him out of it.  He is unable to articulate what needs to be done for us to sell the condo.

Shortly after we got married, I realized that he would never initiate sex.  (He also only likes one position). I would wait weeks for him to initiate, alternated by weeks of me typically getting rejected because he was too tired or wanted to watch TV.  I was crushed.  I'm a very passionate person, and yet the one person who I was supposed to walk through life found whatever ball game more interesting than having sex with his new wife?  He will tell me that the sex we had was the best he's ever had, and that he misses it. I've told him it's only fair that he initiates every now and then, and that it's not fair to expect me to uphold that entire aspect of our relationship.

A few weeks after our first anniversary, I told him we either needed to figure our stuff out by our second anniversary or I was going to divorce him.  This led him to find a therapist, who by sheer luck is very good.  We have been seeing him for about 6 months now.  Sometimes if my husband and I have an argument or "something bad" happens, I will send our therapist an e-mail.  One time I asked if he could recommend a book to me, and he recommended the "Stop Walking On Eggshells" book, which I found really insightful and I saw a lot of my husband, and to my surprise, my dad, in the descriptions of BPD behavior and how it affects the people around them.  I also now believe that my husband's mother may have a personality disorder, based on some of her quirks and the few stories that my husband has shared with me about his youth.

It has been a few months now since I read that book, and I also picked up "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me", which I didn't find to be as helpful for me and confused me more than anything else.

He tends to split me as good most of the time, putting me on a pedestal.  I'm, in his words, "the most beautiful woman he's ever seen".  He has split me bad on a few occasions, which surprised me when I didn't understand what was going on.  I don't have any illusions that our relationship will ever go back to how it was when he was courting me.

He can drink heavily; I first thought that was the big issue in our marriage. I didn't realize that it was covering up something else.  Since therapy, he's gone from 3 bottles of wine a night to I'm not sure how much.  I know he is drinking much less but I am trying to own my own behavior and reactions (some days are better than others), so I try to not pay attention to his drinking as much.  Our typical night after work is he sits on the couch and watches TV and I either sit next to him bored or try to indulge in one of my hobbies such as knitting or sewing.  Lately I have not been feeling very creative and spend a lot of time on my iPad instead.  If I try to get us to do something else, if it's not what he is interested in, he will sulk and then make it out to be the worst thing we could have done.  Tonight I suggested we go see a movie I pick, which is rare. He had read some unflattering reviews and after the movie declared it the worst film of the year.  I had enjoyed the film and my feelings were hurt. I got upset with him and said that he could be really hurtful sometimes, to which he responded that he never intends to hurt me. I told him that despite what he intends, the hurt still is there. This exchange is getting pretty common.

He does have a tendency to drive recklessly.  He drives a big muscle car and can be aggressive on the road.  He has mocked me for getting scared in the car with him in the past, but this is one of the things that he is working on in therapy and I have seen improvement with this behavior in the car. I have told him repeatedly that if he wants to be a maniac on the road, he can do it when I am not in the car. If he insists on driving like a maniac with me in the car, I will drive myself to wherever we are going.

He hides his anger really well; if anything I'm the angry one in the relationship.  He believes anger is a "bad" emotion and tries to suppress it.  I suspect he actually does an amazing job of transferring his angry feelings to me, which I therefore express, in healthy and unhealthy ways.  I don't know how to stop this.  I was not an angry person before I got married. The few times I have seen him get angry, he will get within an inch of my face and yell in my face at the top of his lungs. He can be very passive aggressive. Even when I point it out to him or ask him about his feelings in that moment, it doesn't seem to help.

He has had a few dissociative espisodes since I've learned about BPD.  One such episode practically ruined a long-awaited trip to my hometown.  I desperately need a vacation, and I'm sad that I have to take one with him because I feel at this point I can't expect anything wonderful to remember will come out of being with him on the vacation, which is kind of the point (my love languages are physical affection and quality time, his are words of affection and acts of service).  Right now we have tickets to go to France in October, and I've been dragging my feet planning it because I feel it's not going to be the break I need.

At our last appointment with our therapist, the therapist said he was surprised I hadn't taken action yet, and that we have emotionally been divorced for some time.  He also suggested, and we agreed, to divide up the sessions for a while, where we will meet with our therapist individually for a time.  He said that my recent anger was a defense for the true emotion I am feeling, which is most likely sadness and some fear, and that he actually thought my anger was the best defense I had and that he wasn't going to try to diffuse or deflect it at this time.

I am angry.  I am angry that my husband has wasted my time to have children. We have not had sex since his birthday in May.  I have a common condition that will make it challenging for me to get pregnant, and unless I have twins I won't get to reach my goal of having two children before 35.  I am angry and disappointed with myself that I have picked someone who is so similar to my father, who has such an unhealthy, unfair relationship with my mom.  I'm scared that if I divorce my husband, by the time I get enough therapy to get healthy it will be too late for me to have children.  I'm also scared that if I have children with my husband, that I won't have the skills to prevent the cycle of unhealthy, unhappy relationships from continuing.  I'm embarrassed that I'm "so smart", yet picked someone so inappropriate.

When I first found out about BPD, I thought that our relationship would have a chance if he continues to go to therapy, realizes the problems that he has and starts to build the awareness and skills he needs.  As we have been going to therapy, I have learned that he has an intense phobia of doctors, and can be very paranoid about going to doctors.  He will tell things to me, and when I suggest that he share them with our therapist will refuse to.  He has told me that he cannot lose me, and was stunned when I told him after an argument that culminated in him calling the police that the police recommended I divorce him.  He then claimed that calling the police was a bad idea on his part (you think?).

I don't know what to do.  On one hand, it seems like everything is pointing that this relationship is not going to ever turn into a real marriage and I need to cut my losses and get out.  On the other hand, I am afraid that getting divorced will just set myself up to repeat this same relationship again with another person, and if that is the case then my chances of having children will be better if I continue working on myself and working on the relationship. I want an actualized, healthy relationship but I know that, realistically, I don't think I would be able to have that with my husband. Maybe it is not possible for me to have it at all, with any person.

He can be very thoughtful and sweet. He makes coffee for me every morning even though he personally hates coffee, and he typically buys me flowers twice a month.  He noticed once that I like extra croutons in my Caesar salad and now when he makes salads, ensures I have extra croutons.  We are both good cooks and enjoy cooking together; our skills are complementary so we end up not clobbering each other over how things should be done.  He is well traveled and claims to enjoy traveling.

It's hard for me to see how much of my perception of the relationship is distorted and how much of what I'm feeling is my own.  I feel crazy more often than not these days, and I cry a great deal more than when I was single and feeling sorry for my singleness.  I know that if we were to get divorced that I could be happy on my own.  However, our therapist mentioned in our last appointment an article about Vicktor Frankl, on having a meaningful life is more important than a happy one.   I'm not sure if that means I should try to find the meaning in getting myself healthy and guiding my husband to a healthier path.

I know that my husband has already consulted with a lawyer; I have not yet.  I suspect a divorce with him would be very contentious and draining.

[Anise]

Everyone has a long story, yet so many elements are the same.  I have long stood at the decision making crossroads and am so very stuck. I would appreciate any help in finding my path.

I am in my early 30s, and married my husband about two years ago. It was a whirlwind relationship, full of romance, exciting adventures in a city I was not enjoying living in, and promises of fullfilling my well-stated, deep-seated, life-long desires: marriage, two kids before I turned 35, a life filled with travel and interesting experiences.

We had sex 3 times on our 10 day honeymoon.  Not exactly what I was led to believe I would get.  We started having troubles shortly before we got married, mostly in planning the big wedding that he wanted, and yet I paid for and planned out, even though he had promised me that we were going to plan it jointly together.  (I wanted a small get together with immediate family and a few close friends).

Marriage has not at all been what I thought it would be. We live in his condo that he purchased long before he met me, and any attempt to look for a house together (also his idea), has turned into an exercise of every house I like he finds a reason to not like.  I ask him to find a house for us to look at since my picking skills are so bad, and he cannot find one house in the MLS that he wants to see.  We make about the same amount of money and can easily afford a house in our area.  Our realtor, who is a friend of mine, told me privately that my husband doesn't seem interested in buying a house. The only piece of furniture in the condo that is my own is a sewing desk he IKEA-hacked for me as a gift shortly after our wedding.  All my own furniture is in a storage unit with our textbooks, extra wedding gifts, etc that can't fit in the condo.  I feel reluctant to makeover or change his condo because it's legally not my property.  He has left a drain problem in the master bathroom to sit for over a year, and we have a bad spot on the kitchen ceiling from this.  I don't know why he is in such denial over this issue, and I refuse to call a plumber to bail him out of it.  He is unable to articulate what needs to be done for us to sell the condo.

Shortly after we got married, I realized that he would never initiate sex.  (He also only likes one position). I would wait weeks for him to initiate, alternated by weeks of me typically getting rejected because he was too tired or wanted to watch TV.  I was crushed.  I'm a very passionate person, and yet the one person who I was supposed to walk through life found whatever ball game more interesting than having sex with his new wife?  He will tell me that the sex we had was the best he's ever had, and that he misses it. I've told him it's only fair that he initiates every now and then, and that it's not fair to expect me to uphold that entire aspect of our relationship.

A few weeks after our first anniversary, I told him we either needed to figure our stuff out by our second anniversary or I was going to divorce him.  This led him to find a therapist, who by sheer luck is very good.  We have been seeing him for about 6 months now.  Sometimes if my husband and I have an argument or "something bad" happens, I will send our therapist an e-mail.  One time I asked if he could recommend a book to me, and he recommended the "Stop Walking On Eggshells" book, which I found really insightful and I saw a lot of my husband, and to my surprise, my dad, in the descriptions of BPD behavior and how it affects the people around them.  I also now believe that my husband's mother may have a personality disorder, based on some of her quirks and the few stories that my husband has shared with me about his youth.

It has been a few months now since I read that book, and I also picked up "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me", which I didn't find to be as helpful for me and confused me more than anything else.

He tends to split me as good most of the time, putting me on a pedestal.  I'm, in his words, "the most beautiful woman he's ever seen".  He has split me bad on a few occasions, which surprised me when I didn't understand what was going on.  I don't have any illusions that our relationship will ever go back to how it was when he was courting me.

He can drink heavily; I first thought that was the big issue in our marriage. I didn't realize that it was covering up something else.  Since therapy, he's gone from 3 bottles of wine a night to I'm not sure how much.  I know he is drinking much less but I am trying to own my own behavior and reactions (some days are better than others), so I try to not pay attention to his drinking as much.  Our typical night after work is he sits on the couch and watches TV and I either sit next to him bored or try to indulge in one of my hobbies such as knitting or sewing.  Lately I have not been feeling very creative and spend a lot of time on my iPad instead.  If I try to get us to do something else, if it's not what he is interested in, he will sulk and then make it out to be the worst thing we could have done.  Tonight I suggested we go see a movie I pick, which is rare. He had read some unflattering reviews and after the movie declared it the worst film of the year.  I had enjoyed the film and my feelings were hurt. I got upset with him and said that he could be really hurtful sometimes, to which he responded that he never intends to hurt me. I told him that despite what he intends, the hurt still is there. This exchange is getting pretty common.

He does have a tendency to drive recklessly.  He drives a big muscle car and can be aggressive on the road.  He has mocked me for getting scared in the car with him in the past, but this is one of the things that he is working on in therapy and I have seen improvement with this behavior in the car. I have told him repeatedly that if he wants to be a maniac on the road, he can do it when I am not in the car. If he insists on driving like a maniac with me in the car, I will drive myself to wherever we are going.

He hides his anger really well; if anything I'm the angry one in the relationship.  He believes anger is a "bad" emotion and tries to suppress it.  I suspect he actually does an amazing job of transferring his angry feelings to me, which I therefore express, in healthy and unhealthy ways.  I don't know how to stop this.  I was not an angry person before I got married. The few times I have seen him get angry, he will get within an inch of my face and yell in my face at the top of his lungs. He can be very passive aggressive. Even when I point it out to him or ask him about his feelings in that moment, it doesn't seem to help.

He has had a few dissociative espisodes since I've learned about BPD.  One such episode practically ruined a long-awaited trip to my hometown.  I desperately need a vacation, and I'm sad that I have to take one with him because I feel at this point I can't expect anything wonderful to remember will come out of being with him on the vacation, which is kind of the point (my love languages are physical affection and quality time, his are words of affection and acts of service).  Right now we have tickets to go to France in October, and I've been dragging my feet planning it because I feel it's not going to be the break I need.

At our last appointment with our therapist, the therapist said he was surprised I hadn't taken action yet, and that we have emotionally been divorced for some time.  He also suggested, and we agreed, to divide up the sessions for a while, where we will meet with our therapist individually for a time.  He said that my recent anger was a defense for the true emotion I am feeling, which is most likely sadness and some fear, and that he actually thought my anger was the best defense I had and that he wasn't going to try to diffuse or deflect it at this time.

I am angry.  I am angry that my husband has wasted my time to have children. We have not had sex since his birthday in May.  I have a common condition that will make it challenging for me to get pregnant, and unless I have twins I won't get to reach my goal of having two children before 35.  I am angry and disappointed with myself that I have picked someone who is so similar to my father, who has such an unhealthy, unfair relationship with my mom.  I'm scared that if I divorce my husband, by the time I get enough therapy to get healthy it will be too late for me to have children.  I'm also scared that if I have children with my husband, that I won't have the skills to prevent the cycle of unhealthy, unhappy relationships from continuing.  I'm embarrassed that I'm "so smart", yet picked someone so inappropriate.

When I first found out about BPD, I thought that our relationship would have a chance if he continues to go to therapy, realizes the problems that he has and starts to build the awareness and skills he needs.  As we have been going to therapy, I have learned that he has an intense phobia of doctors, and can be very paranoid about going to doctors.  He will tell things to me, and when I suggest that he share them with our therapist will refuse to.  He has told me that he cannot lose me, and was stunned when I told him after an argument that culminated in him calling the police that the police recommended I divorce him.  He then claimed that calling the police was a bad idea on his part (you think?).

I don't know what to do.  On one hand, it seems like everything is pointing that this relationship is not going to ever turn into a real marriage and I need to cut my losses and get out.  On the other hand, I am afraid that getting divorced will just set myself up to repeat this same relationship again with another person, and if that is the case then my chances of having children will be better if I continue working on myself and working on the relationship. I want an actualized, healthy relationship but I know that, realistically, I don't think I would be able to have that with my husband. Maybe it is not possible for me to have it at all, with any person.

He can be very thoughtful and sweet. He makes coffee for me every morning even though he personally hates coffee, and he typically buys me flowers twice a month.  He noticed once that I like extra croutons in my Caesar salad and now when he makes salads, ensures I have extra croutons.  We are both good cooks and enjoy cooking together; our skills are complementary so we end up not clobbering each other over how things should be done.  He is well traveled and claims to enjoy traveling.

It's hard for me to see how much of my perception of the relationship is distorted and how much of what I'm feeling is my own.  I feel crazy more often than not these days, and I cry a great deal more than when I was single and feeling sorry for my singleness.  I know that if we were to get divorced that I could be happy on my own.  However, our therapist mentioned in our last appointment an article about Vicktor Frankl, on having a meaningful life is more important than a happy one.   I'm not sure if that means I should try to find the meaning in getting myself healthy and guiding my husband to a healthier path.

I know that my husband has already consulted with a lawyer; I have not yet.  I suspect a divorce with him would be very contentious and draining.

[OnceConfused]

Vicktor Frankl, on having a meaningful life is more important than a happy one

Happiness is not or cannot be something we seek, happiness is solely a result of what we do.

When we do something CONGRUENT with our goals in life, we will feel a sense of accomplishment , a sense of satisfaction and thus a sense of happiness.

THe questions then become :

What is the purpose of my life here on earth? for example, for me is to lead a life of fulfillment, of taking care of my children, of being who I can be. How do I be the person who I can be ? BY living a simpler life, by continuing learning new things (dancing, yoga), by changing my old paradigm. WHen I defined my purpose, then I was able to leave xBPDgf since she was constantly in a crisis mode, pulling me in all kinds of directions. It was not the simple life that I want.

Good luck

[once removed]

hey anise, and

youre right, many members and their relationships have a lot in common. i hope it helps to know that you are not alone in this, and im glad you found us.

obviously, it would be inappropriate for us to tell you what to do or not do with regard to deciding on your relationship, but we can, and will, listen, relate, support you, and help inform your decision. i would also recommend starting with the links directly to the right on choosing a path. further down the road, we have a staying board that can provide tools to improve your marriage, a leaving board with coping tools and lessons, as well as a legal board, so we will be here for every step in your journey, whatever you decide.

im really sorry to hear youre feeling so down as well as angry, we tend to lose a lot of ourselves and our peace of mind in these relationships. they take a real toll  . would you say therapy has made overall improvements? its good that its helped his behavior in the car, your safety is valuable, and also good for you for setting a boundary with regard to driving yourself if need be. have you also considered seeing a therapist separately?

[JQ]

Hello Anise   

Welcome to the group     I'm glad you found the group as Onceconfused has said and as they said here we won't judge, but listen, give you a cyber hug   when needed. We have been or are in the same situation that you're in. It sounds as if you're already learning what you can about the world of BPD with reading a couple of books. As Once Removed said, there are references here as well. If you want to shoot someone a personal message for a question or to clarify something or whatever, you can send them a PVT message too ... .I was here for a couple of weeks before I found that one ... . 

I found it interesting that you have discovered that in your search for answers in regards to your husbands BPD you learned that you're father is as well. In my search for answers of my exBPDgf I have found that my mother is BPD & most likely my younger sister is as well. I learned that I am and it might sound that you like others here are codependent as a result of us growing up in the household that we did  ... .it was a learned behavior in the case of BPD & codependency. I've had to do a lot of introspection as to why I was attracted to her and I found that the book, "The Human Magnet Syndrome" help me understand how two people who are opposites can attract each other.

Your story isn't that much different then most of ours as you have read. I found it interesting that your therapist said you had been emotionally divorced for some time. I found that a good way to describe my divorce before it actually happened. I was married to her for 15 years, it should of lasted less then half that but I'm the type of person that would rather die trying, "at anything" then roll over and give up, "regardless of the situation". Then I had my relationship with my current exBPDgf that has been a roller coaster crazy train from the start. Only when she came to me to try to understand why she was behaving the way she was with her two kids did she tell me she was BPD. I had no idea what that was & in the process of trying to learn what I could about BPD I found this sight which has been very educational. And why past relationship were the way they were.

You said "I know that my husband has already consulted with a lawyer; I have not yet.  I suspect a divorce with him would be very contentious and draining". I would ask a question, Is not getting a divorce going to be any less contentious & draining?"  I've asked myself that question with my ex-wife so many times & that drive in me to continue won out until I couldn't do it anymore. Now with my exBPDgf I ask myself the following questions.  Is this the relationship I want 10 months from now much less 10 years from now. I"m just north of 50 BTW.  Is the relationship mutually respectful, full of loving, caring, friendship? Is she a good example to her kids? What would her kids learn from a relationship with me? Because in the end, they learn how to be in a relationship from their parents. I guess that's why I have chosen or attracted to someone who has BPD without really knowing why until I got her and like you started reading different books. I learned from my parents ... .not real good examples if I say so myself.

I've learned that a lifetime with someone who has BPD is going to mean a lifetime of therapy for not only her but with me so that I can vent my frustration and my stress & keep my sanity. So that I can continue to learn this new language of BPD. Triangulation, projection, painted black & white, push / pull, etc. I have to continue to hone my skills not to trigger her by something I say or do. I have to continue to validate her concerns because if I don't she becomes more frustrated which leads to anxiety, which leads to her raging out of control which doesn't lead to anything good after that. So then i have to ask myself is this the life I want ... .yes I love her and I've asked myself why so many times. My first exBPDgf was batsh!t crazy ... .and I decided after a couple of years no matter how good the sex was it wasn't worth my mental health of trying to wonder what I was going to come home to each and everyday.  What I find funny is that sex with my first exBPDgf 30 years ago was off the charts, but batsh!t crazy. My first wife seem to be more stable but sex was far & few between ... .FAR BETWEEN.  Then second wife was the same as first wife and I only had sex with her on my honeymoon once in two weeks? IT WAS FAR & FEW BETWEEN for the next 15 years and pretty much non-existent the last 5 years. Now the 2nd exBPDgf is like the first BPDgf ... .WOW off the charts!  But like the first one she has major BPD issues that I struggle with now that I'm much more educated about the behavioral issues. Do I stay or do I go?

I know you have this arbitrary age of 35 set for having 2 kids, etc. and you have your reasons ... .but life events can be adjusted ... .that really isn't that old. And if your life isn't in a stable environment how do you expect to bring two kids into it? And I've known more then one woman to have a child without the other half ... .there are a lot of single parents out there both male & female. Jus saying     Life choices I guess.

Like your's my exBPDgf can be thoughtful, kind ... .but something triggers her and lookout all that before is for nothing    You mentioned the drinking which is a coping mechanism that they have good or bad. My exBPDgf is very intelligent & when she goes to social gatherings or dinner meetings she doesn't drink because she knows through experience & her therapist that nothing good happens when she does. She become overly friendly if you know what I mean. She has learned only to drink when she is in the confines of her home or out with a girl friend. Once she starts it loosens her inhibitions and that sex you talked about is off the charts. But in the morning their is amazing amount of guilt so i've learned not to encourage it & actually limit it when we are together.

I've learned that her 3 yr old toddler learned BPD behavior is a result of her childhood & the abuse she suffered at the hands of her older brother & sister.  She is emotionally stunted unable to cope with a lot of issues and this is a defense mechanism she learned to cope. It started long before I was part of the picture. As you have learned like I have you can't control it either and you sure as hell can't cure it ... .she's been in & out of therapy for decades and will be for probably the rest of her life. SO like you I have to ask myself the question ... .is this what I want for the rest of my life ... .the weekly or biweekly visits to the therapist office, continuing to hone new BPD communications skills & learn new BPD terminology? Do I want to watch everything I say & everything I do to learn what does and doesn't trigger her into deregulation, that leads to anxiety that leads to raging. OR do i want to a relationship that is mutually respectful, loving, caring, friendship that I can have that umbrella drink, traveling, enjoying the years I have left on this planet because for no fault of your own you can be taking off of it. All good questions that I ask myself everyday ... .

You like the rest of us are NOT crazy! You feel deeply with your emotions! You care with all of your heart & want what we want! But iike the rest of us you didn't sign up for any of this. And for the record ... .I'm with Once Removed ... .I'm not sure I agree with your therapist on the teachings of  Vicktor Frankl.  You only get this one very short life to live the way you want too ... .You deserve to be HAPPY!  In whatever ways or means to get there. For example, exBPDgf just texted me, "I checked my mail and thought you had sent me a card." Back story, I have been the only bf that has ever sent her love/miss you/thinking of you cards on a regular basis. She has kept everyone in a file and showed me. So she moved recently & told me she was't going to give me the new address because she didn't want me showing up and "surprising her" & her current bf. But if you want to send me a card to the old address it would be forwarded." I told her that I would not send her any more cards until I received her new address & her current bf is out of the picture, it's not fair to me to give me a false sense of a relationship. It was a boundary I put in place.  So I'm not sending any cards. I texted back, " I take it someone sent you a card then?" with no response in 30 minutes ... .this is part of the triangulation process, the recycle process, setting the stage to come back into my life when she paints the current bf totally black. Events like this can cause you to think that you're the one that is crazy ... .but trust me ... .you like the rest of us are trying to learn about BPD and the craziness that comes with it.

Please come back as often as you need to for virtual hugs    to bounce ideas like you have off of us. to vent to someone who can relate to you and your circumstances, knows what you're going through, has been there & got the crazy train shirt autograph!      The one thing I've learned is that you'll need to keep your sense of humor, it'll help more then you realize right now. 

JQ

[Anise]

Thank you for your thoughtful and caring responses.

I don't think therapy has helped the relationship; my husband will vehemently claim that he is doing therapy for me because he thinks I enjoy it.  I've told him that no, I don't want to go therapy but I want a healthy relationship and I want us to get along.  I do think therapy has helped my self knowledge and self awareness.  I think my husband is too defensive and scared to be completely honest in therapy, and I think this really limits how much progress we can make.  I have told our therapist that I don't think I have the skills I need to successfully handle the relationship anymore; I'm getting much too bitter and resentful and have a hard time not criticizing my husband at this point.  Who wants to be around that?

My husband has a tendency of taking things said in therapy to extremes. One of the problems we discussed in therapy was that I've asked him multiple times to take care of himself - he claims he wants to be the happy old couple on the park bench and I said we can't have that if he doesn't take steps to ensure he gets there. He gained over 30 lbs since we got married, and while the weight gain didn't bother how much I was attracted to him, he started snoring terribly at night and I would be unable to sleep in the condo at all because it was so loud.  So after over a year of pleading he finally had a sleep study done and is mad at me now that he has "very mild" sleep apnea and there is going to be a CPAP machine installed at the house.  During this time he also has been losing weight, because he claims that's what I want (I asked that he take care of himself).  So all he eats most days is a salad for lunch, and my pleading to get him to eat something more balanced or exercise is all for naught.  To be fair his weight loss has helped the snoring at night significantly.

He recently mentioned that he was thinking about running a half marathon at the end of the year, and asked if I would be interested in doing something like that with him.  We both used to run recreationally before we met each other and since moving to this city 4 years ago I have not kept up with it.  I told him that I would run a half with him but that I need 6 months to prepare and so he would need to decide soon if that is what he wants to do.  We have different ways of training but I'm a tiny bit hopeful that it might help bring us together.

My parents have an extremely unhealthy relationship, it's mellowed out some since they have gotten older but my dad still pretty much gets everything he wants and convinced my mom to not work so she can stay at home with him, even though they really don't have any shared pasttimes or hobbies.

My husband's mom is an OCD neat freak (cleans and cares for their 5000 sq foot mansion by herself and it's always ready to show off to people).  My husband will claim that he had a perfect, happy, childhood, but once told me (in a drunk stupor) that his mom would throw their toys away if they were left out.  This made me really sad because what kind of mom does that? That just seems like very hurtful behavior; from a child's perspective, the person who you are supposed to trust, who is supposed to love and care for you unconditionally, is taking your toys and discarding them.  I suspect his mom split him black and his brother white, because his younger brother is the clear favorite of the parents and was definitely given more financial help in life.

I feel like he has a sad story but he doesn't seem like he wants to get help, and there is nothing I can do about that.  Sometimes I think maybe if I am nice to him and stay long enough that he will feel safe and comfortable to take therapy seriously, but I also think that is more likely a silly fantasy on my part.

I have already discussed my goal for having children with our therapist, and even though it's hard for me to come to terms with I know that it's probably better the way things are.  If we had tried and were unable to have children, that would be something I could process and deal with.  That he doesn't even want to try is what hurts the most.  I spent most of the first year of our marriage getting rejected by him, and after that I figured out that he will never approach or initiate sex with me. Maybe at this point now I am putting off vibes that he shouldn't approach me, but he doesn't seem to care either way.

He was in a grumpy and sulky mood today, so I ended up going out this evening to go dancing with friends (I dance tango socially for fun and there are often social events where people get together and dance).  He was passed out on the couch when I got home.

[forestfortrees]

I am sorry. This sounds really difficult. I can tell that seeing the good in your H is quite the challenge, especially as things don't change, and you can't force them to happen.

Control of intimacy is pretty common issue identified by spouses of BPD folk. I really wanted a second child more than anything, but many obstacles, including complete lack of intimacy precluded that. That was so hard for me. I finally realized one day that "I can't make you love me and I can't make you happy" after trying to address so many of the continual complaints. I began to exercise more regularly, and took care of myself in a way that was fulfilling and healthy.

I love being a dad. In the aftermath of the relationship and divorce - (5+ yrs of challenges and 1 yr post divorce), I am grateful number 2 didn't come along. Maybe some day. We weren't in a positive place for that to happen, and it would have complicated this situation even more. I thought I'd marry someone who'd want many kids.

The therapist can only do so much as well. I bet most of the them wish they could just rant at the obstinate one and say, "quit being a <adj here>, and quit doing 'xy&z' and start doing 'ab&c' -- and I don't want to hear anything next time except how 'xy&z and ab&c' are improving". But they can't - they have to listen, emote, relate, sympathize so they can maintain the trust and honest buy-in of the other party.

I wish you the best. We (I) can't tell you how to traverse this tough and critical road. If you have objective friends or family close to you, unbiased perspective will prove priceless.

[JQ]

Anise,

Unless your BPD husband wants to go to therapy & WANTS to get help, anything you say or do to try to force the issue isn't going to work. He'll rage against you projecting all types of reasons why he isn't going to go because of you. Your therapy like mine helped me do a lot of self evaluation, a lot of introspection and I understand things, see things a little clearer then before. It's hard once you get to the point you're at to continue the path you're walking on ... .I was at the same point when my ex-wife told me in counseling, "I'm not the person you married, I am the person you married, but it's not who I am. I was the person you wanted me to be, not the person I really was." I really didn't know how to process that. So for 15 years she pretended to be someone else? SO with that I knew it was time for us to part ways & enjoy life once again, to find a person like minded that wanted to enjoy laughter and joy and life itself.

As you've learned there were problems before you show up in the picture and probably the root cause for his BPD. His mother's ability to throw his toys out was simply wrong on every level ... .she was wealthy and money was obvious no problem to replace toys. Trying to teach a child to pick up after themselves by doing that is setting the child up for failure. I find your comments about your parents interesting. In 22 years my dad & step mom were married before my dad past at the age of 48 I only saw them kiss twice, one at the wedding & the second was 20 years later when she was on heavy meds.  They were not the example of how a couple should be so I've had to learn on my own. It's funny,  they were never an affectionate couple ... .but me? I'm very passionate, intimate and desire affection and want a partner with the same level of desire, passion. I'm never going to settle again ... .I'm to the point in my life that like you I'm more self aware, and desire so much more of what I've been missing who isn't afraid to initiate sex and be receptive to my advances.

You've giving me a great idea to get out more then I have been. I live in the SW and before I came here I learned to Salsa dance and there is always Salsa music playing somewhere ... .so thank you for that idea    I've been bicycling a lot and was hit by a car a week ago today ... .I was lucky, 1/2 second more and we wouldn't be having this conversation so apparently it wasn't my day ... .I still have things to do like Salsa dance.    I'm like a cat with 9 lives with 4 or 5 to go ... .I've lost track.    The bike is out of the shop, I bought a new helmet today and I'm hoping my body will allow me to at least do a short ride tomorrow.   

Stay positive ... .things will get better ... .they always do ... .you've come to a cross roads in your life and in front of you are more then one path you can choose from to go down. I've learned in my life it's better to choose which path you go down then to only have the one path your forced to go down.

JQ

[Anise]

Control of intimacy is pretty common issue identified by spouses of BPD folk. I really wanted a second child more than anything, but many obstacles, including complete lack of intimacy precluded that. That was so hard for me. I finally realized one day that "I can't make you love me and I can't make you happy" after trying to address so many of the continual complaints. I began to exercise more regularly, and took care of myself in a way that was fulfilling and healthy.

This is so true!  Our therapist mentioned in a session a month or so ago that if our subconscious is reminded of our parent when we view our spouse, that we don't want to have sex with the spouse, because being intimate with a parent is icky.  I'm still trying to understand this and how it relates to my husband not wanting to be intimate with me.

JQ, it does sound like we have a lot in common!  My parents were also not affectionate when I was growing up, and the only time I remember my dad telling me I was beautiful was on my wedding day.  But I consider myself to be very affectionate and passionate.  My dad is a retired Marine, and home life when he was around was very regimented.  Looking back I don't have many happy memories involving my childhood.  The more I think about it the more I think I was a survivor of "benign neglect": all my physical needs were taken care of, to the detriment of my social and emotional needs.  Thankfully I don't feel I have difficulty making friends these days.  The one nice thing my parents fostered was a love of reading and education and I'm the only member of my extended family (on my dad's side, my mom's side is all out-of-country) who has a Master's degree.  I believe this helped my critical thinking skills.  I used to have a lot of angst towards my parents but over time I realize that they did the best they could with what they were given and some of the sacrifices they made for me do make me believe that in their own way they loved me a tremendous deal (I'm an only child).

I'm glad that I've inspired you to take up salsa dancing again!  I hope you enjoy it as much as you remember!  I'm sorry to hear about your bicycle accident; I used to race with my alma mater's cycling club and since moving here have been too scared to take up road cycling again.  The city I live in is one of the worst in the country for cyclists and once you see how people drive you don't want to be on the road on a bicycle.  I've looked into some cycling clubs but when I watch them ride I feel they aren't the most safe in a peloton (too close to the curb, 3 abreast, etc).   I'm very glad that you were not hurt and I hope you enjoy your bicycle ride today!

I am trying to self care but it does get difficult some times.  I typically go tango dancing at least one night a week (for two classes, and sometimes I go to an event), and I also knit and sew.  I have plans to meet up with a girlfriend tomorrow night to knit, and I have a couple sewing projects that have been simmering on the back burner.  It's hard for me to get enough sleep, and that's what I feel I really need the most.

[JQ]

Good Morning/Evening Anise,

I found your comment interesting, "Our therapist mentioned in a session a month or so ago that if our subconscious is reminded of our parent when we view our spouse, that we don't want to have sex with the spouse, because being intimate with a parent is icky.  I'm still trying to understand this and how it relates to my husband not wanting to be intimate with me."  So it's been said that women want a husband that reminds them of their father ... .so what does that say about that theory?  but I can see the logic behind the theory ... .things that make you go hmmmm ... .I need a glass or two or wine & get Freudian with that thought.

Your right it does sound like we have a lot in common from our childhood to extracurricular activities. BTW, thank you for your sacrifice & your fathers service to our country. I can imagine being the daughter of a Marine life was anything but easy & very regimental. It reminds me of a movie call, "The Great Santini" it's about a Marine father interaction with his family & son and the regimental dysfunctional life they had. Looking back at my childhood which I've had to do more then once, like you I don't have a lot of happy moments. My mother was constantly doing batsh!t crazy things and constantly negative and I couldn't wait to leave the house ... .which for the record I left for the military less then 2 weeks after my 18 birthday. And it seems that history does repeat itself  ... .we (you & I) have or had found a s/o that reminded us of our parent in some sort of warped way. Perhaps we did it unconsciously not really knowing what we do now. It's been said, "those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat the past." I would like to think that these past 2-3 years has been my practical in a Master's in changing the past going forward in the future.    I hope that came out right. Like you, I find it very easy to be social in any environment & make friends. Perhaps it's the way we were raised ... .as you put it "benign neglect" ... .ahhh we could really get Freudian over a couple of glasses of wine and debate nature or nurture.

I had to smile about the city you live in & it being one of the worse to ride in. The city I live in is usually rated one of the top 10 to ride with hundreds of miles of road trails along with mountain trails with one of our road paths that is 55-mile, car-free!   I just moved here and I'm told that there are a lot of bike clubs to support different levels of skill. The weather also supports year round riding with awesome views & community support for riders. The bike is out of the shop, I have a new helmet, I'm debating if my body is ready. I ended up with a few scratches & bruises and tweaked my back, pulled muscles from my hip flexor to my traps ... .but I think a short ride might be in what I need.

I know all to well about self care and how much of a challenge it can be at times. I've been told more then once that I have to make myself a priority ... .I need to recharge my batteries, center myself, get some sleep.  I remember a few years ago my flight surgeon told me about melatonin to help me fall asleep when I was flying long flights and my circadian rhythm was anything but normal. It's not a drug but Melatonin is a natural hormone made by the pineal gland, a small gland in the brain. Melatonin helps control your sleep and wake cycles & I was told as you get older you produce less or your circadian rhythm is confused due to your schedule or stress that a supplement might help get back on track & help you get better sleep. Again, it's not a drug because the military wouldn't have allowed me to take a drug and get in the plane. Hell I wasn't even allowed to take a aspirin without my flight surgeon knowing about it.  I had to experiment with the dose depending on the stress level or the flight schedule and found that for me 15-40mg taken about an hour before i wanted to go to sleep helped me fall asleep and stay asleep. Within a couple of weeks of starting this supplement I was getting some much needed sleep. It's an idea   ... .do you're own research  

It's Monday so have a great week!

JQ

[rotiroti]

Anise, I want to join the other members in welcoming you here! I can tell by your writing that you are a very thoughful and caring person. I am sorry that you are having a difficult time, but commend you for actively seeking help (therapy) and for sharing your story here.

The other posters have shared some excellent advice! I want to recommend you a book that is akin to 'Stop walking on Eggshells'. It's titled: "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life" and is filled with many useful tools like the ones you'll find on this site and also in SWoE. It'll help you set boundaries (you say your husband is good at projecting his anger onto you, the tools will help you reflect them back isntead of absorbing!) and also to analyze your role in your relationship.

Have a beautiful week!

[Anise]

Thank you all again for your kind words and support.  You've helped me feel I am not alone in this struggle, and your insights have shed light on my situation in a way I could not find on my own.

I'm still working through the Logotherapy book, and at my appointment last week, my therapist brought up a concept that he thought fit what I am experiencing, called "Positive Disintegration".  I'll have to pick up some of the other books that have been recommended here soon.

I'm still focusing on self care; JQ, I picked up some melatonin and have been taking that at night.  I'm not sure I am sleeping more but I am not laying awake for hours at night anymore, so I am getting some peace from that. Thank you for the recommendation!  I hope you had some nice bike rides last week!

Last week before my dance class, he didn't want to have dinner with me. In the past I would have just gone hungry before my class, but this time I said that I would leave early so I had time to get something to eat. I never would have thought of that as a boundary in the past but it's sad and funny now that I tell myself it's not OK to go hungry because he's "not ready" for a meal.

It's a little silly, but I've been editing my makeup "stuff" and am working on wearing some every day, if only because it makes me feel more feminine. I typically don't wear all that much anyway, but I found a great tinted moisturizer that brings some life back to my skin and this weekend a makeup artist suggested purchasing a lipcolor that I wouldn't have picked on my own, but the color brings out my eyes in a nice way.

He's been nicer to me recently, I'm not sure how long it will last this time.  He bought flowers for me last week (typically happens twice a month), and left a nice card in my work notebook for me to find. The other day he wanted to take a nap with me after work and spent the whole time cuddling up to me, which has never happened before.  Of course, over the weekend he also woke me up in the morning by turning on the TV after I spent the night on the couch. I spent the night on the couch because he kicked me out of the bed when he came up after he himself passed out on the couch.  I was so angry and frustrated with his rudeness I went up to his office, unplugged the TV there, brought the TV back down to the living room with me and asked him what was wrong with watching TV in his office if I was sleeping in the living room. "I didn't realize the TV would wake you up. . . "

I'm so relieved he is off to Vegas for his fantasy football draft this weekend. Every year it's a nice break, but this year I'm especially looking forward to the time by myself.  I bought a bunch of bath/spa products and am looking forward to relaxing and focusing on self care.

[JQ]

Anise,

YOU are not alone here ... .EVER!  We all need a helping hand every once in awhile ... .you're no different. I'm very happy & excited for you that you're doing a lot of self care and moving forward with other things. As far as the melatonin, it sounds as if it's working to some degree with you not laying awake for hours. That's one of the things it does for me. But I had to find the right amount for me ... .I think I told you that I started out with 3mgs, ... .then went to 5mgs then finally to 10mgs ... .with all the things that I had on my plate I finally took 5 X 10mgs and that seemed to really help me slow down, get drowsy, calm down making it better to fall asleep and stay asleep for the most part. You might have to see what works for you. I'm really glad it helped    And if a little make up & lip color helps you feel a little more feminine ... .then it isn't silly. You keep doing what makes you feel good & happy at the same time    You go get as much spa/bath products as you want ... .I have found it's really the small things in life that help center myself and put a smile on my face. After I returned from the desert the simple thing of taking a hot shower as long as I want centers me the first thing in the morning or in the evening if needed.  It's something small, it's doesn't cost a lot of money, relaxes me, and brings a smile to my face. I love a good long hot shower ... .it just relaxes me to a point ... .it's a simple pleasure in my life that I won't deny myself and it seems that the simple thing of taking a spa/bath does the same for you. Great minds think alike.

You've also set some boundaries ... .the tv issue is a good start. Remember, they have the behavior of a 3 year old ... .his response of "I didn't realize the TV would wake you up" sounds just like something a 3 year old would say doesn't it? You almost have to laugh ... .but you set the boundary ... .see if he sticks to it and determine a consequence if he pushes the boundary ... .what ever you think might work.

Vegas for a fantasy football league? Really? I never knew something like that even happened, wait ... .I think I just seen a commercial on tv for something like that.  I mean I like football but ... .hey everyone has their thing I guess. It give you much needed "me time" to recharge your batteries recenter. Enjoy ... .relax ... .grab a bottle of wine ... .some relaxing music of choice ... .

JQ

[JQ]

.

[Anise]

Well, he came back and things are rocky again.

He told me tonight that he didn't want to have a baby with me.  This is unacceptable to me, so I am going to find a lawyer this week and file.

I guess I will be moving over to the leaving board now.

Thank you all for your help and support. 

[once removed]

im really sorry to hear this anise  .

we will be there for you on the leaving board.