BPDD and Money

[mom2bpd]

Well my BPDD has done it again. First of all she ask or should I say demanded that we pay our GD8s insurance each month. We agree and paid every month but April because she forgot about it. Now she's wanting us to makeup that payment by paying her twice this month. To top it off she has let another student loan I consigned many years ago go into default. So on top of paying child's insurance we are now going to have to pay 2 student loan payments each month... .even one month of this is 450! Since I just found out through the lender about the 2nd student loan payment I want to tell her no to making up the insurance payment for April. We can't afford to pay this much and then she wants more. My struggle is how to tell her using SET.

Here's my attempt so please comment;

I know it is expensive to have a child today. I understand how stressful this can be. However we just found out that we will need to make a second student loan payment so we will need to use the April insurance payment for that to get the loan payment up to date.

All comments are welcome and I forgot to mention she just returned from an out of state vacation and can't pay her bills! We only get along so we are not cut out of our GDs life.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[madmom]

I will give it a try---

I know that you are worried about the insurance payment for ---, I would be also, insurance for ---is very important to have. We love her and you so much and only want the best and I know that we agreed to pay the insurance each month, but I just found out that there is a second student loan in default that payment is being demanded on and I can't afford all of the payments. I am planning to pay for the student loan payments, and I am hoping you can find a way to take over the insurance payments. I am sorry, I imagine you are feeling angry, disappointed and frustrated with I am feeling that way also. This is the best solution I can come up with right now. 

This is probably too many words, but its the best I can think of right now.

By the way, we have gone through the same issues with money with my daughter.  For us though, we were giving her the money for the insurance, but she wasn't making the payments, but telling us she was---then she had no insurance and couldn't qualify to get it for several months which was very scary.  She could never manage money and there were always issues. We had to set up boundaries about what we would and wouldn't pay for. It was really tough letting her fail when she came to us because she didn't have rent money and things like that and we had to say no. Luckily for us, when she needed to replace her car and couldn't get a loan for it, we negotiated a deal.   We would sign for the loan, but in return she would have to come each week when she got paid and pay bills etc.  with us.  She gets a certain agreed upon amount of cash each week for food, gas, and "fun" money, and the rest she puts in her checking account to pay bills.  Together we worked out a budget for each week, she pays me her money for things like savings, Christmas club, vacation, taxes, health insurance etc. and I keep it for her in an account she doesn't have access to.  The agreed upon consequence for failing to follow this agreement is, she loses the car for the week---she gets a do over on the following Monday.  The car is in our name, so she can't say much and I told her I would have the police come and get it if she didn't voluntarily follow the rules. (The sheriff is a good family friend, so she knows it can and will happen this way)  She tried it once, giving all of her week's earnings to a low life friend so she could bail low life's child out of jail. So goodbye car.  There was plenty of screaming, crying, threats, on her part, but her dad and I kept calm and stuck to the boundaries we had set.  We did tell her the days and times of the week that we were available to take and/or pick her up from work. Between us and friends she was able to make it work and the good news is she hated it and hasn't tried it again.  The even better news is she is so proud of herself for having money in the bank and able to take care of her needs.  (She doesn't live with us)  My hope is that she is learning new skills and someday, when we are all ready, she will be able to manage much better on her own.  However, I am happy to help her with this responsibility as long as she needs it.  Through therapy, we learned that she has to find a way to ask for help when she needs it.  She finally recognized that money is a real problem area for her, and that she needed to set up a nontraditional way of solving the problem.  I am very proud of her and our relationship is so much better now.   I hope this helps.  I am sorry this post is so long.

[Butterflygirl]

Greetings! I know a lot about BPD and money. I could own my own home if it were not for my Borderline son. I not only had to support him as a single parent growing up, and to treat his disorder, in order to avoid taking him in to my apartment I pay his rent. Lately my frustrations have gotten out of control. When this happens I turn to all the tools I learned from the self-help community. Then I turn to the Bible where it reminds me that I can't take my treasures to heaven. But what about life in the meantime. LOL. What helps me the most is acceptance. Over the years I have studied this. It started when I read page 449 in the book of Alcoholics Anonymous. "Nothing happens by accident . . ." Then affirmations like the serenity prayer. Then my own prayers and affirmations. Every day is different. After working through some issues yesterday to day is a good day. So hang in there. You are not alone.

My affirmation for today: Painful emotions have a life span. They come and go like the waves. May I get help learning how to swim. Thank you God [Higher Power]

[thefixermom]

Butterflygirl,  similar things help me.  Sometimes I will listen to youtube videos as I drift off to sleep (they have everything on there!) and I choose ones that bring me to a place of peace, forgiveness, acceptance and love.  I'm reminded, too, that it is our relationships we take from this existence to the next and not all our goodies.  I would like to have a nice vacation now and then, though!

[MammaMia]

When the financial demands of our BPD children start to compromise our ability to pay our own bills and our health, it is time to look at other options.

Is the pwBPD employed?  If not, are they eligible for disability?  There are programs to help those in financial difficulty pay or reduce their student loans.  Have you checked into this?  If you are paying rent, and basically financing two households with no help from your child, it is time to say... .ENOUGH!

Services are available, as are resources to help those with mental illness find employment and housing. 

It may be worthwhile to check local agencies for the criteria. 

As parents, we deserve to enjoy what we have worked so hard for all our lives without feeling guilty.

[Butterflygirl]

If you are paying rent, and basically financing two households with no help from your child, it is time to say... .ENOUGH!

I agree up to a point. And sometimes I do say "enough," other times I pretend I am being charitable. Only God knows the fine line between codependency and charity. Thank you for the good advice. Below I have some previous thoughts on the matter.

From an earlier post of mine:

"On Monday he asked for money for groceries and gas. You might wonder why I support him. He does work when he can. He has  been arrested seven times for disturbing the peace and often he gets and job and then is let go when they check his past. Since he was 14 he has had a rare skin disorder. Cysts break out all over his body. Thirty at a time. It took ten years to get a diagnosis. When the cysts get infected he lances them or goes in the hospital for surgery. Until Obama Care we had no one to help. Now he is getting treated for up to 35 cysts at a time on his head. They are giving him Humira which killed my daughter so I am not sure it is worth the cure. He was a teacher and they told him that the students complained that he was unsightly. He does some paralegal work at home. When his treatment takes hold we are looking forward to employment. Meanwhile I help sometimes and sometimes I say enough.

[MammaMia]

Butterflygirl

Every one of our children are different and every set of circumstances varies. As parents, we have to do what we believe in our hearts is best, and not every case of necessity is black or white.  There are often complications like serious medical issues that must be considered along with BPD.

I am not a huge advocate of disability, but in some cases it is the only answer when we can no longer afford to support family members who are ill.  

Help is available for those who qualify and want it.

[Butterflygirl]

Every one of our children are different and every set of circumstances varies. As parents, we have to do what we believe in our hearts is best, and not every case of necessity is black or white.  There are often complications like serious medical issues that must be considered along with BPD.

Thank you for your support and wise words.

I want to clarify something. I am codependent with my son. I understand codependency and made a lot of progress since I was first diagnosed in 1982. So I am not really in denial, I am just stuck when it comes to application. So I came here not only to learn and grow, but to find someone else who is stuck when it comes to financially supporting our grown children. Since I have been on this board I have gained more courage to enforce boundaries, but my decision to support my son still stands no matter how bad it looks for me. Some boards insist that one be in complete recovery to post. If that is true here let me know. I have made progress and I think it has a lot to do with feeling accountable to those of you who are a few steps ahead. I am going to put this same post on my ongoing thread. Best wishes to all.

[mom2bpd]

Thanks to all for your insights and comments about your own BPD and money issues.  I agree that each circumstance is different and we only help our BPDD because we adore our GD. We try to keep peace with her for that reason only. She has a job but it's not a high paying job and we all know that BPD and money don't mix. I live for the day that she can't use our GD to beg for money. Good luck and I pray for each of parent that has to live with this awful disease and it's ramifications.

[Kate4queen]

It's easy for other people to say 'just stop paying for them' but its not so easy when its your child. My BPD son has a form of cerebral palsy which has meant many surgeries throughout his life and we've had many battles to get him to go to physical therapy and keep doctor appointments, which he refused to do anymore at 16.

Even after he walked out and told us we were the worst parents ever, etc etc we still offered to pay for him to finish community college, gave him a small allowance and let him stay in his brother's apartment which we pay the rent on. A lot of people told us we shouldn't do any of that but we didn't feel able to walk away from him completely.

But, we did set some limits about what financial help we were prepared to give him.

1. If we gave him $ like his allowance, it was money we could afford to do without and we didn't expect an accounting of what he spent it on.

2. We refused to co-sign any loans for him.

3. We offered to pay for him to finish community college but not for any of the wild schemes he wanted us to finance.

4. We set his allowance on a sliding scale over 2 years and gave him an end date.

All these things were hard to do but you know what? After a lot of screaming and ranting which we also refused to get involved in, he actually got a job and got his own loan and has remained employed for the last year (fingers crossed). His allowance finished last month so at this point all we pay for is the apartment, which will be on us for one more year until his brother goes off to university.

I just wanted to give you an example of how you might detach a little at a time in a way that makes sense to you and feels comfortable for your conscience. Our way isn't going to be your way but you might be surprised about what your son will manage to do for himself if you step back at bit.

[mom2bpd]

We have set many limits with our BPDD. We consigned loans many years ago before realizing she had issues, so she knows to never ask for that again. Our problem is that she uses our GD to get us to pay for what she should be paying for. She even tells our GD that we must not care about her or we would pay for whatever mom decides we should. GD is old enough now to understand better so I'm letting her know that children are your responsibility when u have them and that includes paying their expenses. Our BPDD didn't grow up seeing us mooch off her grandparents but she just doesn't want the responsibility. So the way I handle her is by telling her the full cost of paying for HER student loans and GDs insurance so when she ask for more I can declare we don't have it. I'm trying to put into her head also that when we retire we'll be on a fixed income so can't afford  others expenses.  Preparing for the future ... .or trying to.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[madmom]

Nice post, Kate, you gave excellent examples of ways you are helping and not enabling.   I agree each of our children are unique, so how we have to deal with them is unique also.  It sounds like you made reasonable boundaries and you and your child respected them.  Thank you for the inspiration

[mom2bpd]

My latest dilemma with our BPDD concerns money that our GDs family sends to her at our address for her birthday. Our BPDD thinks that whatever money the family sends it should be hers even though she gets money from us every month to pay for our GDs insurance. So last time the father sent her money I kept the money and told our BPDD that I used it to help pay her insurance. Besides paying her insurance we buy her clothes all the time. Our BPDD tells our GD that I spent the money on something I wanted! When I asked my therapist she said there is a reason they don't send the money to her mother so if u want to be nice about it split the money with BPDD. What should I do? The only thing that BPDD will not be triggered by is me giving her all the money. We r not talking about lots of money but under $100... .less than we pay in 1 month for her insurance. Why r they so triggered by money and want it all to themselves?

[MammaMia]

mom2BPD

I wonder if money represents power. It can enable pwBPD to buy and do things for themselves that temporarily fills their emotional void and boosts their self-esteem.

On the other hand, does your BPDd receive child support from her ex?  If not, she may feel entitled to the money, even though it is clearly intended to be spent on your grandchild.

Personally, all I know is that my BPDs has struggled to understand the value of money most of his adult life. He had to stop using a checkbook because he was unable to log-in and track deposits and expenditures, which resulted in many, many overdrafts. 

[Butterflygirl]

I wonder if money represents power. It can enable pwBPD to buy and do things for themselves that temporarily fills their emotional void and boosts their self-esteem.

This is so so true. In addition, my son is addicted to my money because I used it to bribe him as a child. I would give him money to get him out of the house so I could be alone. I used it to buy his love. I used it to push him away.

We also lived in a poor neighborhood and he was bused to an affluent part of town. All his school friends had rich parents and my son envied them. I would get calls from parents asking me to keep my son away from their child because he did not have an allowance and their kids were sharing their money with him. They did not like this. But my son wanted to have the things his friends had and to this day having money actually represents the ability to keep up with his friends, looking good, having fun, having a loving parents, and most of all being able to fit in. Power stuff money.

So he got addicted to all that money and the things it represents to him and now he can't let it go.

I have explained all this to him and he is still in denial. No matter how broke he is, even for food, he makes it to the thrift store to spend a few dollars on some "thing" that gives him a quick fix. Taking the money away has not helped. He just started shop lifting. I pray every day that he will come out of  denial and get treatment. When he was 12 I could force him to go to therapy. Now I am powerless.

But I am an optimistic and I will never give up hope. Sometimes the hope gets lost, but I find it again with God's help.

[madmom]

mom2BPD--I had a thought, that may be a compromise, although one that your daughter probably won't like---why not start a savings account for your GD with the money  and keep adding to it when the family sends money for a "college fund" for GD.  Of course, your daughter's name can't be on the account, but it sounds like she isn't able to handle money, so at least your GD might have some money for her future, when she wants and needs to make a life of her own.

[js friend]

mom2BPD--I had a thought, that may be a compromise, although one that your daughter probably won't like---why not start a savings account for your GD with the money  and keep adding to it when the family sends money for a "college fund" for GD.  Of course, your daughter's name can't be on the account, but it sounds like she isn't able to handle money, so at least your GD might have some money for her future, when she wants and needs to make a life of her own.

... .I have one for my GC where the money has to stay in to mature for so many years.I picked it especially so that way my dd cant quibble over it as.I didnt want to take the chance of her asking for it as she spends money like water and has a serious shopping addiction buying daily from online sites to make herself feel better.(I actually read about shopping addictions and it said that the act of actually purchasing something online sends out endorphin hormones into the system to give a buzz and overtime this hormone can become addictive) but of course that doesnt apply to her and she is in denial.

And as my dd20 has very many Npd traits she of course has to look the part that she has it all together, is successful and doing very well compared to her many of her old school friends who are working and just about getting by to put themselves through college or uni.She doesnt want to work that hard and has said so.

She doesnt want to have to work her way to the top.I think she is just looking for a rich man to take care of her.  Shes just terrible with money but claims to be a good saver. I think her intentions are there but she is too impulsive and is no good with money but wont admit it. What gets me with my dd is at least if you are gonna look good let your children look good too. Buy them the right sized clothes, and shoes for their ages and always  make sure you have enough money to feed them! :'(.