Married 26 years - I think my wife has BPD

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This is my first post.

I have been married 26 years to a woman I love dearly.  We have had a life together filled with many good memories and we raised two wonderful daughters.  My wife is smart, fun, spontaneous, witty, and engaging.  She is a natural leader and is always the life of the party.  To most of the people we know, we are a model couple. But there is another side of our life that only family and close friends see.  My wife is emotionally volatile and our relationship is not at all healthy.  She has not been diagnosed by a therapist, but I am certain she has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

Here is why I think she has BPD.  She has always been prone to mood swings where she is happy one moment and depressed a few minutes later.  She is quick to anger, where all seems to be well, then she suddenly she flies into a rage.  In public, she appears confident and in control, but in private, there is no filter and she often unpredictable.  Our arguments have almost always been at the end of the day or after we have been out of the house.  When she arrives home, I watch her exhale and see her shoulders drop as we go through the door.  It as though she has been holding her breath.  If she has had a bad day, I (or the children) become the target of all her built-up negative emotions.  It could start off as her complaining about a friend or it could be a direct verbal attack.  She has threatened divorce and suicide too many times to count, although never in front of the girls and she has never carried out a suicide threat.  She is impulsive and tends not think about the consequences of her actions.  Her overspending and lack of financial accountability has created family debt crises a number of times during our marriage.   Her need to be complimented, praised, thanked, or otherwise validated is never-ending.  She hates to be alone and has told me many times that she fears abandonment.  When are apart, she needs to be in regular contact.  That usually means email or text messages every few hours.  If I don’t respond in a timely manner, she often becomes demanding in subsequent messages. 

Here is the sad part:  I had never heard of BPD until three weeks ago.

I always felt there was something wrong with her emotionally, but there was also a voice inside me that said maybe she was right.  Her emotional outbursts included grains of truth that convinced me it was my fault or her feelings were justified.  And believe me when I say she is very convincing: she was on her high school debate team and has not lost her edge.  We have seen therapists off and on over the years – both couples and individual.  Not once was there any mention of BPD.  I have done Internet searches many times to understand her erratic behavior, but with no luck.  I found descriptions of Bipolar Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but neither seemed to fit her behavior pattern.  I did find information on depression and the psychology of adoption (my wife was adopted at birth) and they offered some help.

In May of this year (2015) we flew to New York City to attend our older daughter’s graduation from college.  After the festivities were over, we spent three days taking in the sights.  While at a restaurant with the family and a close friend, I said something that upset my wife and she unloaded on me like so many times before in what I now understand to be a classic BPD rage.

Here is usual ‘the pattern’ and what happened in New York City.

I say something that offends her.  It may be a misspoken word, opinion, an attempt at humor or insensitive comment.  It is not my intention to hurt her or create an uncomfortable situation, but sometimes it happens.  In these moments, like the flip of a switch, she becomes emotional and her hurt quickly becomes anger.  She raises her voice and speaks pointedly about how I am wrong or how my words hurt her.  She is completely emotional, completely in the moment and it is completely my fault.

When I see that she is upset, I usually back down from my position.  I take responsibility for my words and apologize.  I don’t want to create a scene, and also, I may indeed be in the wrong.  In that moment, I bury my feelings and work to defuse the situation.  But usually it does not end there.  She continues to talk about the pain she feels or argues that I am in the wrong.  Although I have backed down and apologized, she says that she does not believe I am sincere.  She then pulls up events of the past, things I said or did months or years ago to “prove” that she is genuinely wounded and is justified in making this scene.  I apologize even more, but to no avail.

As this all unfolds, I have a range of emotions.  First, I feel hurt because I am being verbally attacked.  I feel confused because there is a disconnect between my offense and her strong reaction.  If we are with others, I feel embarrassment that she is humiliating me and that she is embarrassing herself.  I feel bad for the others in the room, especially if it is a celebration or special occasion.  If it’s a party for a friend, I feel bad for that friend because now there is a cloud over the party.  Then I begin to feel anger.  But her hurt seem to be genuine and I sincerely want to give her the benefit of the doubt.  She is my wife and I love her.  I don’t want to believe she is being disingenuous or deceitful.  This mix of thoughts makes it even more confusing.

If this scene takes place with family or friends, then all other conversation has stopped.  People are weighing their options whether to go or stay.  Then suddenly she seems to realize that everything is going sideways and she enters what I call ‘damage control mode’.  She announces out loud that everything is fine, that she is actually not upset or angry, but I needed to be “called out”.  She says that this is not the first time I have offended in this way, but this was “the last straw” and she “had to say something”.  She seeks out those individuals who remain upset (by her behavior) and personally counsels them.  She puts her arm around them.  She tells them again how everything is fine, that she is not upset or angry, that I was wrong and needed to be called out, that we love each other and this is normal in a marriage relationship.  She then diverts everyone’s attentions by enthusiastically suggesting a new activity (“Who wants ice cream?”).  To her credit, these attempts to smooth things over with the group are usually successful.

So, following the pattern, she remains upset with me for the rest of the day.  At some point, I am ‘put on notice’.  It is sort of like probation.  She is ‘watching’ me to make sure I don’t ‘offend’ again.  She will make comments such as:  “I can’t believe you said that earlier” or “You’re lucky that I tell you what is on my mind.  Most wives keep it inside, and then just leave their husbands.” 

Further discussion on the topic afterward takes one of several routes.  If there is still tension the next day, I often bring it up and apologize again to smooth things over.  I do this even if I believe I was in the right from the start.  This usually invites further condemnation from her.  She continues to justify her behavior and take no ownership.  Actually getting her to acknowledge any wrongdoing in these situations, much less apologize, is almost impossible.  Sometimes there will be no further discussion at all.  On very rare occasion, the next day, she will give a short apology and change the topic.  It might be something like: “Oh, sorry about yesterday.  I’ve been tired lately.”  End of conversation until the next time I offend.

This story has played itself out hundreds of time over our marriage.  She is upset by something I say or do; she becomes angry; she makes a scene; she claims I am responsible; I take partial or full ownership and apologize; she is the victim; she remains hurt; I am put on ‘notice’; she is the center of attention; she is in control.

Back to the New York City story.

My wife’s outburst at the restaurant in NYC killed the positive energy of graduation week for our daughter.  Our last two days there were painful as my wife worked furiously on damage control with the girls and our close friend.  Because the trip was a celebration of our daughter’s milestone in life, the focus of the entire week should have been on her. Instead it became all about my wife.  She needed to have the spotlight and she got it.  After we returned home, we were both still upset over what happened and were barely talking. 

Frustrated once again, I decided to do so more Internet searches.  I Googled searched: “Why does my wife need so much validation?” and “Why does my wife yell at me?”  Then I Googled “Why is my wife so emotional?”  An article came up that talked about women who are “emotional bullies.”  There was mention of a mental illness called Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), so I did further searches and that is when I found it: the diagnostic criteria for BPD.  A rush of emotion came over me.  Here was the most accurate description of my wife’s behavior and personality that I had ever seen.  And there was actually name for it: Borderline Personality Disorder.  VALIDATION!  I am actually not crazy after all.  The DSM-V Borderline Personality Disorder diagnostic criteria includes 9 symptoms and I know for sure my wife has at least 7 of them, and maybe all 9.

That was three weeks ago. Since then, I have read everything I can find about BPD on the Internet and downloaded the book “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me” (I’m about half way through right now).  BPD is a ‘spectrum’ disorder and I think my wife falls on the ‘high functioning’ end of the spectrum.  This means that her disorder is usually not visible to those outside of her family and close friends.  I am willing to bet that, if shown the diagnostic criteria, all of those closest to her (including our daughters) would agree that she has this illness.  Others in the family may confirm it as well.

I can’t believe I was in the dark so long!

Prior to three weeks ago, before my Eureka moment, I worked hard over many years to modify my behavior so I could become a better husband, father and person.   I tried to avoid comments and topics that were hurtful to my wife.  I tried to be sensitive to her needs.  I tried to go at the root of what made her upset and address those issues that were mine.  When your wife is yelling at you about something, it is generally not helpful to assume she is crazy and do nothing.  I watched my brother do that for years with his wife and it got him nowhere.  He is now divorced.

In addition, I worked hard to protect the children, especially when they were young.  Dozens of times, after her rages, I counseled them and explained her behavior as best as I could.  If her attack was directed at me and there was a grain of truth to her argument, I took ownership of that part.  I did not always defend her to them.  I told them many times that I did not agree with their mother’s behavior, but I loved her and asked them to be patient.  I made it my policy not to speak poorly of her in front of the children.  I never wanted to poison their relationship with her as I have seen happen with friends and relatives with disastrous results.

Make no mistake about it, I have always believed my wife’s outbursts or rage were absolutely wrong for all the reasons I have said.  Yet it has gone on for so long, for so many years.  For her, this behavior has become an ingrained habit and has gotten no better with age or maturity.  Earlier in our marriage, I thought she would grow out of it; I thought she would mature, but she has not.  I fear that I have enabled her all these years and that we may be codependent.

So, I am stuck: I am not okay with her behavior, but not yet willing to leave her.  Why not get a divorce?  For these reasons:

1.   I still love her.  We have a lot in common and actually have fun together most of the time.

2.   I see her as a tormented soul who doesn’t comprehend how she is hurting those closest to her; I have suspected for years that something was wrong mentally or emotionally; and I have believed that I was the only one in her life who could help her to heal.

3.   My own fear of everything that a divorce would bring: an untangling of our lives that would be a painful process taking many years since we have interwoven finances including trusts, investments, houses, and storage units filled with stuff from a life spent together.

4.   Loneliness: my own fear growing old without a companion.  As dysfunctional as we are, I like being around her most of the time.

At this point I want to stay together and try to figure it out.

I have not told anyone about what I have learned, so have been alone in my thoughts.  I have a close relationship with both of my daughters and my brother, but I have not spoken to any of them about this.  So I am in a dilemma.  I need to find someone to talk to (for my own sanity), but using family or close friends as counsel is not recommended by the BPD websites I have visited.  If my wife learns about it (and she would most likely learn about it), then she would not see it as an effort to help her.  Rather she would see it as me going ‘behind her back’, a conspiracy against her which will only intensify her feelings of rejection, abandonment and self-loathing.  Furthermore, the prevailing advice is that I should not even tell her in private that I think she has the disorder for many of the same reasons.   If she already has low self-esteem and her ‘normal’ is to expect rejection by everyone, and then her husband tells her he thinks she has a mental illness, it will increase her irrational fears and undermine my efforts to get her into treatment.

So the questions I am asking myself are:

1.   How can I tell my wife that I think she has BPD?

2.   How do I get my wife into treatment?

3.   Are we codependent?

4.   Is there hope for us?

Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated.  Thank you for reading my story.

   

Best regards,

Lost in Asia

[LostinAsia]

This is my first post.

I have been married 26 years to a woman I love dearly.  We have had a life together filled with many good memories and we raised two wonderful daughters.  My wife is smart, fun, spontaneous, witty, and engaging.  She is a natural leader and is always the life of the party.  To most of the people we know, we are a model couple. But there is another side of our life that only family and close friends see.  My wife is emotionally volatile and our relationship is not at all healthy.  She has not been diagnosed by a therapist, but I am certain she has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

Here is why I think she has BPD.  She has always been prone to mood swings where she is happy one moment and depressed a few minutes later.  She is quick to anger, where all seems to be well, then she suddenly she flies into a rage.  In public, she appears confident and in control, but in private, there is no filter and she often unpredictable.  Our arguments have almost always been at the end of the day or after we have been out of the house.  When she arrives home, I watch her exhale and see her shoulders drop as we go through the door.  It as though she has been holding her breath.  If she has had a bad day, I (or the children) become the target of all her built-up negative emotions.  It could start off as her complaining about a friend or it could be a direct verbal attack.  She has threatened divorce and suicide too many times to count, although never in front of the girls and she has never carried out a suicide threat.  She is impulsive and tends not think about the consequences of her actions.  Her overspending and lack of financial accountability has created family debt crises a number of times during our marriage.   Her need to be complimented, praised, thanked, or otherwise validated is never-ending.  She hates to be alone and has told me many times that she fears abandonment.  When are apart, she needs to be in regular contact.  That usually means email or text messages every few hours.  If I don’t respond in a timely manner, she often becomes demanding in subsequent messages. 

Here is the sad part:  I had never heard of BPD until three weeks ago.

I always felt there was something wrong with her emotionally, but there was also a voice inside me that said maybe she was right.  Her emotional outbursts included grains of truth that convinced me it was my fault or her feelings were justified.  And believe me when I say she is very convincing: she was on her high school debate team and has not lost her edge.  We have seen therapists off and on over the years – both couples and individual.  Not once was there any mention of BPD.  I have done Internet searches many times to understand her erratic behavior, but with no luck.  I found descriptions of Bipolar Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but neither seemed to fit her behavior pattern.  I did find information on depression and the psychology of adoption (my wife was adopted at birth) and they offered some help.

In May of this year (2015) we flew to New York City to attend our older daughter’s graduation from college.  After the festivities were over, we spent three days taking in the sights.  While at a restaurant with the family and a close friend, I said something that upset my wife and she unloaded on me like so many times before in what I now understand to be a classic BPD rage.

Here is usual ‘the pattern’ and what happened in New York City.

I say something that offends her.  It may be a misspoken word, opinion, an attempt at humor or insensitive comment.  It is not my intention to hurt her or create an uncomfortable situation, but sometimes it happens.  In these moments, like the flip of a switch, she becomes emotional and her hurt quickly becomes anger.  She raises her voice and speaks pointedly about how I am wrong or how my words hurt her.  She is completely emotional, completely in the moment and it is completely my fault.

When I see that she is upset, I usually back down from my position.  I take responsibility for my words and apologize.  I don’t want to create a scene, and also, I may indeed be in the wrong.  In that moment, I bury my feelings and work to defuse the situation.  But usually it does not end there.  She continues to talk about the pain she feels or argues that I am in the wrong.  Although I have backed down and apologized, she says that she does not believe I am sincere.  She then pulls up events of the past, things I said or did months or years ago to “prove” that she is genuinely wounded and is justified in making this scene.  I apologize even more, but to no avail.

As this all unfolds, I have a range of emotions.  First, I feel hurt because I am being verbally attacked.  I feel confused because there is a disconnect between my offense and her strong reaction.  If we are with others, I feel embarrassment that she is humiliating me and that she is embarrassing herself.  I feel bad for the others in the room, especially if it is a celebration or special occasion.  If it’s a party for a friend, I feel bad for that friend because now there is a cloud over the party.  Then I begin to feel anger.  But her hurt seem to be genuine and I sincerely want to give her the benefit of the doubt.  She is my wife and I love her.  I don’t want to believe she is being disingenuous or deceitful.  This mix of thoughts makes it even more confusing.

If this scene takes place with family or friends, then all other conversation has stopped.  People are weighing their options whether to go or stay.  Then suddenly she seems to realize that everything is going sideways and she enters what I call ‘damage control mode’.  She announces out loud that everything is fine, that she is actually not upset or angry, but I needed to be “called out”.  She says that this is not the first time I have offended in this way, but this was “the last straw” and she “had to say something”.  She seeks out those individuals who remain upset (by her behavior) and personally counsels them.  She puts her arm around them.  She tells them again how everything is fine, that she is not upset or angry, that I was wrong and needed to be called out, that we love each other and this is normal in a marriage relationship.  She then diverts everyone’s attentions by enthusiastically suggesting a new activity (“Who wants ice cream?”).  To her credit, these attempts to smooth things over with the group are usually successful.

So, following the pattern, she remains upset with me for the rest of the day.  At some point, I am ‘put on notice’.  It is sort of like probation.  She is ‘watching’ me to make sure I don’t ‘offend’ again.  She will make comments such as:  “I can’t believe you said that earlier” or “You’re lucky that I tell you what is on my mind.  Most wives keep it inside, and then just leave their husbands.” 

Further discussion on the topic afterward takes one of several routes.  If there is still tension the next day, I often bring it up and apologize again to smooth things over.  I do this even if I believe I was in the right from the start.  This usually invites further condemnation from her.  She continues to justify her behavior and take no ownership.  Actually getting her to acknowledge any wrongdoing in these situations, much less apologize, is almost impossible.  Sometimes there will be no further discussion at all.  On very rare occasion, the next day, she will give a short apology and change the topic.  It might be something like: “Oh, sorry about yesterday.  I’ve been tired lately.”  End of conversation until the next time I offend.

This story has played itself out hundreds of time over our marriage.  She is upset by something I say or do; she becomes angry; she makes a scene; she claims I am responsible; I take partial or full ownership and apologize; she is the victim; she remains hurt; I am put on ‘notice’; she is the center of attention; she is in control.

Back to the New York City story.

My wife’s outburst at the restaurant in NYC killed the positive energy of graduation week for our daughter.  Our last two days there were painful as my wife worked furiously on damage control with the girls and our close friend.  Because the trip was a celebration of our daughter’s milestone in life, the focus of the entire week should have been on her. Instead it became all about my wife.  She needed to have the spotlight and she got it.  After we returned home, we were both still upset over what happened and were barely talking. 

Frustrated once again, I decided to do so more Internet searches.  I Googled searched: “Why does my wife need so much validation?” and “Why does my wife yell at me?”  Then I Googled “Why is my wife so emotional?”  An article came up that talked about women who are “emotional bullies.”  There was mention of a mental illness called Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), so I did further searches and that is when I found it: the diagnostic criteria for BPD.  A rush of emotion came over me.  Here was the most accurate description of my wife’s behavior and personality that I had ever seen.  And there was actually name for it: Borderline Personality Disorder.  VALIDATION!  I am actually not crazy after all.  The DSM-V Borderline Personality Disorder diagnostic criteria includes 9 symptoms and I know for sure my wife has at least 7 of them, and maybe all 9.

That was three weeks ago. Since then, I have read everything I can find about BPD on the Internet and downloaded the book “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me” (I’m about half way through right now).  BPD is a ‘spectrum’ disorder and I think my wife falls on the ‘high functioning’ end of the spectrum.  This means that her disorder is usually not visible to those outside of her family and close friends.  I am willing to bet that, if shown the diagnostic criteria, all of those closest to her (including our daughters) would agree that she has this illness.  Others in the family may confirm it as well.

I can’t believe I was in the dark so long!

Prior to three weeks ago, before my Eureka moment, I worked hard over many years to modify my behavior so I could become a better husband, father and person.   I tried to avoid comments and topics that were hurtful to my wife.  I tried to be sensitive to her needs.  I tried to go at the root of what made her upset and address those issues that were mine.  When your wife is yelling at you about something, it is generally not helpful to assume she is crazy and do nothing.  I watched my brother do that for years with his wife and it got him nowhere.  He is now divorced.

In addition, I worked hard to protect the children, especially when they were young.  Dozens of times, after her rages, I counseled them and explained her behavior as best as I could.  If her attack was directed at me and there was a grain of truth to her argument, I took ownership of that part.  I did not always defend her to them.  I told them many times that I did not agree with their mother’s behavior, but I loved her and asked them to be patient.  I made it my policy not to speak poorly of her in front of the children.  I never wanted to poison their relationship with her as I have seen happen with friends and relatives with disastrous results.

Make no mistake about it, I have always believed my wife’s outbursts or rage were absolutely wrong for all the reasons I have said.  Yet it has gone on for so long, for so many years.  For her, this behavior has become an ingrained habit and has gotten no better with age or maturity.  Earlier in our marriage, I thought she would grow out of it; I thought she would mature, but she has not.  I fear that I have enabled her all these years and that we may be codependent.

So, I am stuck: I am not okay with her behavior, but not yet willing to leave her.  Why not get a divorce?  For these reasons:

1.   I still love her.  We have a lot in common and actually have fun together most of the time.

2.   I see her as a tormented soul who doesn’t comprehend how she is hurting those closest to her; I have suspected for years that something was wrong mentally or emotionally; and I have believed that I was the only one in her life who could help her to heal.

3.   My own fear of everything that a divorce would bring: an untangling of our lives that would be a painful process taking many years since we have interwoven finances including trusts, investments, houses, and storage units filled with stuff from a life spent together.

4.   Loneliness: my own fear growing old without a companion.  As dysfunctional as we are, I like being around her most of the time.

At this point I want to stay together and try to figure it out.

I have not told anyone about what I have learned, so have been alone in my thoughts.  I have a close relationship with both of my daughters and my brother, but I have not spoken to any of them about this.  So I am in a dilemma.  I need to find someone to talk to (for my own sanity), but using family or close friends as counsel is not recommended by the BPD websites I have visited.  If my wife learns about it (and she would most likely learn about it), then she would not see it as an effort to help her.  Rather she would see it as me going ‘behind her back’, a conspiracy against her which will only intensify her feelings of rejection, abandonment and self-loathing.  Furthermore, the prevailing advice is that I should not even tell her in private that I think she has the disorder for many of the same reasons.   If she already has low self-esteem and her ‘normal’ is to expect rejection by everyone, and then her husband tells her he thinks she has a mental illness, it will increase her irrational fears and undermine my efforts to get her into treatment.

So the questions I am asking myself are:

1.   How can I tell my wife that I think she has BPD?

2.   How do I get my wife into treatment?

3.   Are we codependent?

4.   Is there hope for us?

Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated.  Thank you for reading my story.

   

Best regards,

Lost in Asia

[Thread]

I'm sorry you are going through this hard time. But welcome and I'm glad you found this site!

Your story resonates with me so much. But I figured something was wrong within a year of our courtship and 4 years of my own theory to have a therapist (third one, one his one mine and we moved so a new one of mine) brought it to my attention. I heavily educated myself and there it was! I heavily study psychology in college and I'm like where was this! Why is borderline not discussed, so many people suffer from this and it's real and I've experienced to a handful of times!

The answer to you question, my handful of times have been with significant others. And yes, I do believe unhealthy boundaries and codependent issues are part of my issues. I definitely attract what I used to call "the artistic personality." If they were an artist or not.

It is not recommended you tell your wife she has BPD. Telling someone they are disordered rarely is taken well and with someone with BPD any criticism or not criticism becomes negative regardless of your real intent. With my husband I will compliment him and when our friends leave he will get into t with me about how he doesn't even want to begin to discuss what had just happened. So what I'm trying to say is there is not really a good way to tell a BPD they have BPD. You essentially are calling them crazy.

Treatment for me, was pulling teeth. He refused and refused. Everything was my fault. The first time I had to make an ultimatum. And again we were going "for me." When we moved back to my home town, his escalations and rages worsened. He refused to work. It was rough. He was very emotionally abusive and I was terrified he would harm himself. We separated for a year. We got back together and I didn't know exactly what BPD was. If I did I wiouldnt have returned, but like the pros you discussed I feel similar and only 5 years in. He promised to be in therapy when he returned. 6 months later I had to give him an ultimatum. He does now, but for me, and it's not helping. He is on a waiting list for DBT therapy (check that out - because unfortunate marriage counseling and traditional therapy will not help your wife).

Hope. I use this word a lot for being incredibly hopeless. We've invested so much money and time in therapy and only the smallest changes. But also big setbacks. They are manipulative and heck and I'm sure his therapist is confused as well. He's probably like which one is telling the truth. Because my h BPD is so stable acting, kind, meek... .Bull$hit. He is the most angry and resentful and bitter person who can't last a day without emotionally abusing or demeaning me. I get strong he verbally batters I get weak he puffs up in validation that I am the crazy one, then on my hard times he tells me how awful it is to be with me. There's no winning. But you've been going at this for 26 years. Me 4, no kids. I worry about my cat when he rages because he knows I love her so much. I see he resents that too.

Hope is in you. I can't answer that question. I sickly have it still and I honesty also have none whatsoever, and not having it is more so like this is my lot in life or I don't think there are sane people in the world and i don't want to date more to find out this crazy is Better than others.

Sorry again that you are in this battle  

[rotiroti]

"1.   How can I tell my wife that I think she has BPD?

2.   How do I get my wife into treatment?

3.   Are we codependent?

4.   Is there hope for us?"

These are not absolutes nor are they one-size-fits all answers. Just what I've gathered during my time here. By the way, "Stop Walking on Eggshells" is also a great resource. I would recommend it in addition to the one you're currently reading.


1. You can't. She has to want it on her own.

2. See #1, if you do get her in with an ultimatum, she will go into therapy "for you"

3. Perhaps inadvertently, 26 years is a long time not to be. Fear of being lonely might be worth looking into, it was certainly a trait that had me committed to a r/s with a pwBPD for a while.

4.  It depends on how you define 'hope.' I see posts on the "Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner" section where they people have tolerable lives. There was a post where users were asked to numerically rate their life on a scale of 0-10. 0 being normal/fulfilling and 10+ being living hell. At the best I saw lots of 2-3's and 8+'s on the worst. I would personally rather be single (with the risk of being lonely; an issue i can work on) then be committed and unhappy.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey LiA, Welcome.  You have come to a great place.  Agree w/rotiroti. SWOE is an excellent resource.  Concerning your questions, I also echo rotiroti and will add my two cents:

1.  This message should come from a professional.  Coming from you, it will be poorly received.

2.  You can lead a horse to water but you can't make her drink.  Even if your W sees a T, it is doubtful that she will stick with it for more than a few visits.

3.  In my view, most of us Nons have codependent tendencies, because almost by definition you have to be a caretaker in order to be in a long-term r/s with a pwBPD.

4.  As your doctor or lawyer might say, "It depends . . . ."

LuckyJim

[goateeki]

LostInAsia, first, I'm really sorry to hear about this.  I had a 19 year marriage with similar experiences.  Except there was no fun... .

I can be pretty strident about these things.  Mine was diagnosed with BPD and something called Complex PTSD (I'm not even sure if that's an actual thing -- these two diagnoses were mentioned in passing during MC by a clumsy marriage counselor who was communicating directly with her therapist). 

Anyhow, your life doesn't have to be like this and there are a lot of women in the world. So, to your questions:

3.   Are we codependent? I'd ask you to consider that you are. When this feature was finally broken in me, it was like I was alive for the first time.  Consider that maybe you shouldn't have to spend any time at all writing about your marriage on a board like this.  There is another way to live.

4.   Is there hope for us? Consider that maybe there is not, unless you want to continue to compromise with life.

This isn't a run message.  I'm not in your marriage and maybe 95% of the time your wife is awesome and 5% of the time she's unbearable.  A threat of suicide is not something any human being should have to deal with.  If you ended it, you would likely not grow old alone.  Just consider these things, OK?  It's really hard to remain objective and fact-based when you first start down this road.  It might end up in a great place with the two of you together.  But just remember that everything you said in your post is real, and they're facts, and reality is the best teacher.   

Again, not a run message. You seem like a really smart guy and obviously you care about this person.  Just try to remain objective and know that you're not trapped in something from which there is no means of egress.

[Dobzhansky]

Lost in Asia -

Your story is SO SIMILAR to mine, you need only change a few numbers slightly to have them match exactly.  29 years together and three daughters.

I am also fence-sitting and struggling with the questions you have as well.

I have 3 daughters, two of whom are still at home.  All three have "divorced" themselves from their mother.  I do enjoy being with her and have fun much of the time, though she has completely closed down on me.  It has been a "sexless" marriage (no intimacy of any kind - she seems unable) for about 3 years. 

We are both teachers and have enjoyed working in the same school building.

She sprang a surprise last spring.  Apparently she had been secretly courting teaching positions in a neighboring state close to her parent's house.  She asked 6 staff members for letters of recommendation in early Spring (and asked them to not say anything).  My girls and I found out mid-summer last year when the call to offer her the job rang in the house.  She pretended this was an amazing opportunity that been handed down from God.  Reasons?:  "You are done and don't need me anymore.  I am tired and don't want to do mommy things.  I want to do auntie things."

I found out about her lies when I returned to work in August and staff asked me how the job search had gone.  She has been gone a year now - move to a place near her parents and brothers.  We have not seen her in 6 months.  She has failed to contact the girls in any way apart from things that are the most superficial:  good job in school, have fun at prom, congratulations on passing the driving test.  Nothing any more meaningful than that and only through texts.

She and I call once / week and talk about nuts and bolts stuff.  No "I love you" ever.  No "I miss you".  I see why now that I have researched on this site.  I receive much praise for stepping up to the plate and managing things here.  I have greatly lowered my expectations.   I find myself fence-sitting for reasons very similar to your own.

I am in the house and have the kids.  She is in an apartment - but seems to think she will be able to pre-qualify for a loan and buy a place of her own.  I suggest there is a deep and profound need for a great deal of counseling before we sign a mortgage together, but this seems to be a minor consideration.

She laments that the girls do not contact her.  I try to smooth things codependantly, but would have her realize she is the adult and needs to be the parent, not the friend.  It is her place to reach out and make herself available.  I have a tendency to be the "smoother" in an effort to keep her exploding and ending the relationship, but less so because I don't want it to end.  It is more important in my mind to enable girls and I to stay in the house (much cheaper than rent and we are able to keep the 70-pound dog).  I realize selling the house and striking out on my own would "isolate" my wife from my girls and I - we would be able to say "No!" and even prevent her access to our living arrangements.

She has asked me to send one or both girls to her by plane.  I told her I would talk to them to see how the felt about it.  Both girls were strongly against the idea.  Even if I were to go along.  The girls have said they would be ok with her coming to where we live.  Mental health professionals have supported this idea.  The girls also resist going to visit at Christmas.

A long reply at best - I wanted you to be able to see you are definitely not alone.  This is a great site.  I have only been a member about a week and have already learned a ton of stuff which has brought peace to me and my girls as they further understand none of this is their fault, the nature of their mother's (possible) illness, and what the future may hold.

Good luck!

[Perez]

LostInAsia,

I was married 23 years when I found out, and like you it was a revelation to see my relationship with my wife described so perfectly.  The signs were all there from the beginning of our relationship, I just did not see them.

My marriage was maybe 80% good the first ten years and then has deteriorated over time as my wife became more and more erratic, demanding, and confrontational.  I have done all the mitigation strategies that you described to keep the marriage going. 

Now that you are armed with information, one of the difficult decisions to make is how to set boundaries for your wife's behavior.  I determined to calmly explain to my wife that I would no longer tolerate her yelling, emotional abuse, etc.  I also would stop apologizing simply to get her off her BPD tantrum.  I would simply walk out whenever that behavior was present.  For the most part, that is exactly what I did as she continuously tested the boundary. 

The results are mixed.  I feel much better about myself, have far more energy (amazing what no more 2:00 AM fights can do for your energy level).  Most importantly, I have more time and energy for the  kids and can be more open on what they have to deal with from their mother. 

On the other hand, the marriage is in a complete shambles now , only kept together by the need to bring up the kids.  We sleep in separate rooms, communicate only when necessary, and she constantly seeks ways to be vindictive and provoke me.

So at least in my case, knowing was great, but is only the first step in a long, PAINFUL process.

[OnceConfused]

Lost in Asia:

Identifying her problems is a big 1st step. Unfortunately, knowledge without action leads to nowhere.

where do you want to be? and what do you want her to be?

[Lucky Jim]

Perez: You have described my marriage to a "T."  Problem is, at least for me, when you get to the last stage you mention, which I regard as "disengagement," it's not much of a marriage anymore.  I went through all the same steps.  Towards the end, I got to the point where I was no longer willing to share my feelings and emotions with my W, with the exception of anger, which is a weird place to be in a r/s.  It was pathetic, like strangers living together.

Like you, I stayed because we have kids.  I tried to provide a stabilizing influence for our children to counteract my W's turmoil and rages.  Eventually it all came unglued.  Now we're divorced and I'm much happier now that I'm no longer living w/my BPDxW.

LuckyJim

[Surg_Bear]

I'm sorry you have been dealing with this- in the dark, so to speak - for so long.

I can relate- 25 years together with my wife.  Two daughters.

1.  Do not tell her she has BPD.  Even if she does meet criteria- you will never live it down- YOU GAVE HER BPD (if you tell her so)

2.  Is there hope?  Only you can answer that question.

Read and learn as much as you can.  Use this site and the lessons here.  Come here and post- everyday.  See how some members are doing it right.  See how others are struggling.

Decide inside your core of who you are- is hope enough?  Hope is all you'll have- unless your wife jumps on the non-existent bandwagon, does years and years of core-focused therapy and realizes one of the very rare cures.  Then, hope MIGHT become actually and truly realized.  Can you live with "just" hope?

If hope is not enough, then learn what you can from "Undecided" and move yourself to "Leaving" and learn from lessons there.  Be careful not to get to overwhelmed by the venom that exists about BPD on the internet, and here, too.

I wish you the very best in coming to terms with this difficult situation.  If it helps in anyway, I know EXACTLY what you've been experiencing, and you are a good man for having lasted as long as you have.  Keep it up, Brother.

Love,

Surg_Bear