Am I suffering from Stockholm syndrome?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I was reading a few posts about how us non's have a difficult time getting/staying away from our PD partners. It made me think of Stockholm syndrome, and when I read an article on that I was surprised by the similarities between it and our situation. So several questions come up:

1. How come there isn't more exposure to the role of Stockholm syndrome in the non/PD relationship?

2. Given that I (and others) have had years and years of "training" to be loyal to our captors/lovers, what can we do to "untrain" ourselves?

3. Has there been any study into this phenomenon and its applicability to the non/PD relationship?

Any insights are welcome.

[TheRealJongoBong]

I was reading a few posts about how us non's have a difficult time getting/staying away from our PD partners. It made me think of Stockholm syndrome, and when I read an article on that I was surprised by the similarities between it and our situation. So several questions come up:

1. How come there isn't more exposure to the role of Stockholm syndrome in the non/PD relationship?

2. Given that I (and others) have had years and years of "training" to be loyal to our captors/lovers, what can we do to "untrain" ourselves?

3. Has there been any study into this phenomenon and its applicability to the non/PD relationship?

Any insights are welcome.

[JQ]

Hey Jongo,

It's a complicated thing ... .I would read "The Human Magnet Syndrome" you can find in the library that explains pretty well why we as non aka codependents are strangely attracted to s/o who have BPD.

The definition of the stockholm syndrome is ... .

"Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors."

It deals with the psychological damaged that happens when people are taken as hostages against their will. We choose for different reasons to volunteer to be with a BPD because at anytime in the relationship we can walk away whether that is one day or 20 years into the relationship, unlike someone who is captured and kept against their will in handcuffs, cages or lock rooms.

For a non, chances are you're a codependent ... .this behavior is learned at an early age for different reasons but you are a care giver, a perfectionist, a knight in armor or the white hat cowboy ... .or so I've learned through some of my own therapy. I was the oldest of 5, dad was absent raging alcoholic, mother is a BPD. She more then likely developed her behavior from her father who was a WWII POW in Germany for 2 yrs and saw & suffered horrible things. He suffered from what is now referred to as PTSD but no one knew and no one sought out therapy because it was a sign of weakness. Her mother was a very dominant woman and was more then likely a BPD herself.

I digress, so father was absent raging alcoholic, mother was a BPD that raged & exhibited crazy things like rearranging kitchen cabinets 2-3 times a month so we never really knew where the plates or the food would be. I learned behavior was to protect my younger siblings from the crazy train or the alcoholic tyrant. Nothing I did was ever good enough and my parents would constantly show disappointment. So I worked hard at everything to become a perfectionist to my detriment but even when I would show a trophy for winning the approval or 'good job" would still never come. I would ride in on my horse with my white cowboy hat to save a sibling & or protect them in my suit of armor. Years of this behavior became ingrained and it's who I am or was. I want to help others, protect others, give others a helping hand. What can I do to help you. I will sacrifice my health both mental & physical to help you. I will over extend myself if you call and say I need help.

In the world of someone who has BPD, they are truly damaged people to the core. They will need therapy on a weekly basis for what will probably be for their rest of their life. They are mentally exhausting and draining for the well seasoned & trained professional. It is not uncommon for someone with BPD to have several therapist over a period of time. Sometimes it's the BPD who wants the change and sometime its' the therapist who needs the change because they no longer can be in a productive professional relationship with them.

So in answer to your question, if you read the book you will see that we ride in on our horse sporting our big white Stetson with our shield and sword at the ready to help the poor defenseless BPD who tells us of a horrible story of a ex-husband / exboyfriend who has done them wrong. We listen and are sympathetic and our nature of protector wants to protect them from the ex who shows up at the house trying to get his stereo or tv and she causes some argument but we see him as the antagonizer so we step in to rescue the poor defenseless damsel in trouble. The BPD/codependent are at the very opposites in the behavioral personality spectrum and we truly attract each other.

www.humanmagnetsyndrome.com   The main thesis of this book is that codependents and pathological narcissists are naturally attracted to each other because of their opposite but compatible personality types.  Codependents typically lose themselves in relationships in which they provide the lion’s share of love, respect and care to others while neglecting to obtain the same for themselves.  Conversely, narcissists fall deeply in love with selfless caretakers (codependents) who satisfy their emotional and personal needs with no demands of reciprocity.  As partners, they create a dysfunctionally compatible relationship.  The same magnetic force that brought them together also“ bonds them into a long-term and persistent relationship.

Hope this helps ... .has with me ... .I've learned to say no and set boundaries

JQ

[TheRealJongoBong]

It's true, I definitely had the caretaker thing going strong in me. I was the youngest of 5 kids with a mother who only wants to deal with the good things in life and an unavailable father who only had interactions with us when it suited him. Our family started imploding fairly soon and I remember wanting to get sick or injured just to pull as back together again. I became a pleaser because it seemed the only way to get attention from my parents. Imagine that psyche as bait for a BP/NP.

Setting boundaries is huge in these relationships, and setting them early is best.  I also find that giving little or no response when the boundaries are tested helps as my uBPD/NPD wife gets no reinforcement to her "button pushing" hunt. Of course it requires paying attention all the time, but I find I have to do that all the time anyway to avoid being blindsided by her.

Thanks for the book reference. I plan to add it to my reading list.

In reference to Stockholm syndrome and how it works here, it seems to me that the continuous push/pull from this kind of relationship is more reinforcing to bondong to another individual than the less intense pull of a "traditional" relationship. Of course I'm kind of talking out of my b*** because I've never actually been in a non-non relationship.

[Sunfl0wer]

Have you read up on "trauma bond?" (I cant find the links atm... .srry)

I was shocked to read this somewhere around here.  Made complete sense to me.

What do you think?

[TheRealJongoBong]

Have you read up on "trauma bond?" (I cant find the links atm... .srry)

I was shocked to read this somewhere around here.  Made complete sense to me.

What do you think?

Sun, there's links to trauma bonding all over and you're right it does seem like the correct description. You get to the point in these relationships where everything is revolving around the BPD. It's like they're playing ping pong and you are the ball. Most of the links also say or infer that the only way out is NC. This is really hard for me because it seems like it's impossible to even find the door much less even open it. After my last episode of my uNPD wife demanding a divorce and then completely reversing herself the next day I found that there was no way I would be able to initiate a separation myself unless my situation became really really uncomfortable. My partner's wacky ways have raised my pain threshold to the point that the crazy is just normal.

[Sunfl0wer]

Sun, there's links to trauma bonding all over and you're right it does seem like the correct description. You get to the point in these relationships where everything is revolving around the BPD. It's like they're playing ping pong and you are the ball. Most of the links also say or infer that the only way out is NC. This is really hard for me because it seems like it's impossible to even find the door much less even open it. After my last episode of my uNPD wife demanding a divorce and then completely reversing herself the next day I found that there was no way I would be able to initiate a separation myself unless my situation became really really uncomfortable. My partner's wacky ways have raised my pain threshold to the point that the crazy is just normal.[/quote]

Sun, there's links to trauma bonding all over and you're right it does seem like the correct description.

I really like this site that I found:

www.healing-arts.org/healing_trauma_therapy/traumabonding-traumaticbonds.htm#therapeutic_protocol

Quotes from above link:

A bond between two or more people that finds its root in trauma. Note that a trauma, which activates this type of bond, does not need to be one with intense physical pain. Neglect, degrees of betrayal, as well as physical pain are also activating events for a trauma bond [Carnes, 1997].

A trauma bond is evidenced in any relationship wherein the connection defies logic and is very hard to break. The components necessary for a trauma bond to form are a power differential, intermittent good/bad treatment, and high arousal and bonding periods.

You get to the point in these relationships where everything is revolving around the BPD. It's like they're playing ping pong and you are the ball. Most of the links also say or infer that the only way out is NC.

I am sorry as I do not know if there is hope of healing a trauma bond while in the r/s.  It did not occur to me that my r/s was a form of trauma bond until after we were not together anymore.

This is really hard for me because it seems like it's impossible to even find the door much less even open it.

I can understand this feeling.  I was not able to bring myself to end the r/s.  My partner was quite high functioning in many respects. I still believe that he is genuinely a good person that has some awesome and amazing personality features and is a good fit for me in many ways.  I had a really hard time grasping for a rationale to end things.

After my last episode of my uNPD wife demanding a divorce and then completely reversing herself the next day I found that there was no way I would be able to initiate a separation myself unless my situation became really really uncomfortable. My partner's wacky ways have raised my pain threshold to the point that the crazy is just normal.

I can understand learning a new tolerance for dysfunction and a new definition for “normal.”

So…

I have said that I could not bring myself to end the r/s in any way.  My determination and commitment had been so strongly related to strengthening/repairing and continuing the r/s.  It felt like every cell in my being had been conditioned for years of preserving this r/s.

However, when I began to see that he was "out for himself" vs committed to a "family" that is when my focus shifted toward myself, my safety, and the safety of my son.  As I was aware that my BF was triggered by me and behaving independently irrationally, I became more aware in building boundaries to protect us.(meaning my son and I)  I felt that he no longer was invested or aware of any sense of “Us,” rather, began behaving very much to his own favor on all matters.  The natural consequence of my building boundaries and enforcing them was that BF was continually triggered by his own reactions…until he choose that he could not withstand it anymore.  He made the decision to leave, and he followed through.

All during this, I had made the decision to not try to influence him.

To allow things to play out in whatever manner they would.

To be true to myself, uphold and respect my values and boundaries, just to see where that would lead this r/s.  (vs try to manipulate “fixing” things as usual)

_{I should clarify that BF was primarily emotionally abusive, not physical.  Above, I am speaking of emotional safety mostly.  (However, I did fear that his poor emotional decisions would impact us inadvertently in a physical way.)}

So, in the end I learned:  If I am true to myself, my values, and interests of self protection…  then BF has no real place in this.  I cannot both be “myself” and also be in a marriage with BF as the two are proving to not be compatible and the result is that he cannot withstand much less than the mirror stage of his narcissism traits... .and the natural result=separation in some form.

You are in a tough position!

[michel71]

This is a great post with wonderful insight and comments. I can't add much except to say that I analyzed the relationship using Stockholm and trauma bonding and almost everything else I could to gain clarity . At the end of the day it really doesn't matter though. BPD is BPD is BPD and it always wins. For me the hard part was radical acceptance. I was learning about BPD, trying to apply what I learned but I still didn't want to accept that I COULDN'T effectuate change in her in some way. I am a Christian but I started to read some Buddhist books. The whole letting go and letting things happen in their normal course was comforting, but I still had to accept my situation for what it was: married to an uBPD. And this is her. IT won't get better. I can't make it better. Hell I can't even talk to her most of the time without a misinterpretation of what I said.

[Sunfl0wer]

This is a great post with wonderful insight and comments. I can't add much except to say that I analyzed the relationship using Stockholm and trauma bonding and almost everything else I could to gain clarity . At the end of the day it really doesn't matter though. BPD is BPD is BPD and it always wins. For me the hard part was radical acceptance. I was learning about BPD, trying to apply what I learned but I still didn't want to accept that I COULDN'T effectuate change in her in some way. I am a Christian but I started to read some Buddhist books. The whole letting go and letting things happen in their normal course was comforting, but I still had to accept my situation for what it was: married to an uBPD. And this is her. IT won't get better. I can't make it better. Hell I can't even talk to her most of the time without a misinterpretation of what I said.

Hi Michel71!

Yes, RA is hugely helpful!  Really having RA means to accept vs try to elicit change in the person.

The “IT” you are referring to sounds like her?

IT won't get better. I can't make it better.

If you are referring to her, then yes, RA is accepting that your pwBPD is who they are and they will not magically process and understand things from your view or your angle just because you spoke the words the right way at some moment in time.

Or was the “IT” you are referring to the r/s?

I know the “staying board” is not the painted picture of the r/s we likely originally dreamed, however, I do believe that some over there have actually experienced “things getting better.”

Reviewing Stockholm and trauma bonding was quite helpful to me.  If we think of our partners as simply "a person with BPD," and not simply a person, we can easily partake in dysfunctional thinking and paint them black, thus objectifying them, thus avoiding the great potential of self reflecting and self growth on our part.

The lessons and articles around here are of great help in this regard.  I have read, and believe, that the greatest growth comes when we do not simply paint “the other” person as “the problem” however, we look inward and evaluate our reasons and responses with the person to see what drew us to this type of r/s in the first place.  Our life…after all…is all about us, our perception, our experience.  Often, simply labeling “that person has issues” can actually hinder our own growth.

I genuinely hope that you are finding yourself in a good place in your healing journey!

[TheRealJongoBong]

I really like this site that I found:

www.healing-arts.org/healing_trauma_therapy/traumabonding-traumaticbonds.htm#therapeutic_protocol

Sun, thanks for this reference. The therapeutic protocol was very helpful for me, especially the section on making a list of what you love and don't love about your partner. I did this exercise silently yesterday and it really sunk in that there's not much that I really love about her. Sure, she can be a wonderful woman at times but mostly she's just kind of mean and manipulative. I'll give an example here. We've been having this ping pong match lately about going on a vacation/getting a divorce.  Over the course of 3 days she managed to want to get a divorce, then saying no I don't want one, then saying yes I do. When I tried to get a definitive answer about this I mostly just got evasion. "No, I don't want a divorce but we need to get the house painted so we can sell it." "The sooner we can get this over with the better it will be for me" "I'm glad you want to go on vacation with me" "I don't want a divorce but I'm going to anyway". 

All this to me is just crass manipulation, trying to keep me on edge. However since I stopped buying into most of it a while back its mostly just a side show.  It's like I'm in a quantum relationship where I'm both married and divorced at the same time!

RA is the only way to go in relationships like these. Getting pulled into the chaos of these people's only reinforces the trauma bond, and the trauma bond is virtually the only thing which keeps us together. It's also interesting that the BP is attracted to and always reinforces this trauma bonding process. I can see with my wife that, given how her parents are, the only way she could have thought she was receiving love when she was young was to act out this way. I can also see how I was prone to falling for it too, because of the way I would accept virtually anything as love.

[OnceConfused]

I made a list of + and - about the XBPDGF and our r.s. It really helped clarifying my mind about what I needed to. My - was longer than the + list. With that list, I began my exit strategy and then I pulled the trigger first before she can dump me.

Remember if you are the one that files the divorce then you are telling your mind that you are in charge of your destiny. If you let her file the divorce first then you are letting her control your destiny, you then become a victim and not a victor.  Since I initiated the leaving, I was able to walk away without a question about what ifs, coulds, and shoulds. My mind was clear and I felt free and strong.

[nonbpdis-m]

They know that we are going to feel like the bad guy afterwards  and we always do, that is why they keep on doing it... .No come-uppance.  When you do finally say 'ok I'm sorry I upset you' you validate their rage.  I feel tremendous guilt and I haven't even done anything! I'm in the middle of a rage marathon now they usually last 3 days its SOO mentally draining I'm glad I'm in work to be honest.  I always feel bad but the truth is they usually upset themselves but word it to sound like you've hurt them.  Stockholm Syndrome is definitely why I've gone back so many times which ties in with guilt in case they have an extreme meltdown in the aftermath which leaves us feeling responsible for them even though they are fully grown adults just like us.

[Surg_Bear]

I made a list of + and - about the XBPDGF and our r.s. It really helped clarifying my mind about what I needed to. My - was longer than the + list. With that list, I began my exit strategy and then I pulled the trigger first before she can dump me.

Remember if you are the one that files the divorce then you are telling your mind that you are in charge of your destiny. If you let her file the divorce first then you are letting her control your destiny, you then become a victim and not a victor.  Since I initiated the leaving, I was able to walk away without a question about what ifs, coulds, and shoulds. My mind was clear and I felt free and strong.

I disagree with the notion that you can only be the victor if you do the leaving.  Being left by a BPD can be MORE of a win- you never have to deal with the fall-out of having given them their worst fear- abandonment.

What makes a person feel free and strong after a break-up has more to do with who they are as a person inside, and how they are coping with the loss.  I do not think there should be a race to be the dumper before becoming the dumped.  There is seed for profound personal growth in both- being the dumper, as well as the dumped.  What a person does with that seed is far more important than seeing it as black and white as a contest to be won.

I think this is true of all major life events - positive and negative.  Whether the event enriches our life and makes us a bigger, better person because of the event depends mostly on who we are coming in, how we process the life event, and who we are after we leave the event.

Sometimes the greatest action is inaction. 

Being dumped by a pwBPD may turn out to be the single greatest event in a person's life. 

I'm not sure it is positive, or even useful to use the line of reasoning that "it is better to dump, than to be dumped." 

Surg_Bear

[michel71]

This is a great post with wonderful insight and comments. I can't add much except to say that I analyzed the relationship using Stockholm and trauma bonding and almost everything else I could to gain clarity . At the end of the day it really doesn't matter though. BPD is BPD is BPD and it always wins. For me the hard part was radical acceptance. I was learning about BPD, trying to apply what I learned but I still didn't want to accept that I COULDN'T effectuate change in her in some way. I am a Christian but I started to read some Buddhist books. The whole letting go and letting things happen in their normal course was comforting, but I still had to accept my situation for what it was: married to an uBPD. And this is her. IT won't get better. I can't make it better. Hell I can't even talk to her most of the time without a misinterpretation of what I said.

Hi Michel71!

Yes, RA is hugely helpful!  Really having RA means to accept vs try to elicit change in the person.

The “IT” you are referring to sounds like her?

IT won't get better. I can't make it better.

If you are referring to her, then yes, RA is accepting that your pwBPD is who they are and they will not magically process and understand things from your view or your angle just because you spoke the words the right way at some moment in time.

Or was the “IT” you are referring to the r/s?

I know the “staying board” is not the painted picture of the r/s we likely originally dreamed, however, I do believe that some over there have actually experienced “things getting better.”

Reviewing Stockholm and trauma bonding was quite helpful to me.  If we think of our partners as simply "a person with BPD," and not simply a person, we can easily partake in dysfunctional thinking and paint them black, thus objectifying them, thus avoiding the great potential of self reflecting and self growth on our part.

The lessons and articles around here are of great help in this regard.  I have read, and believe, that the greatest growth comes when we do not simply paint “the other” person as “the problem” however, we look inward and evaluate our reasons and responses with the person to see what drew us to this type of r/s in the first place.  Our life…after all…is all about us, our perception, our experience.  Often, simply labeling “that person has issues” can actually hinder our own growth.

I genuinely hope that you are finding yourself in a good place in your healing journey!

LOL. Sorry I meant "IT" as in the situation or relationship. I would never dehumanize my wife that much. She has been abusive but it is just because she is so disordered. Not giving her a pass. Just seeing her as a human being with mental illness.

[OnceConfused]

surg-bear:

Sometimes the greatest action is inaction

. If the above strategy is your way, then I respect it. It might have worked well for you but for me, I found life needs actions. I chose to live in destitute while I went though engineering school. The results of which are that I now live very comfortably. Furthermore,  You mention about the seeds inside each of us, well I also believe we each have the seeds of good and bad inside but the main thing is that  we have to choose what seed to water. Don't you agree with that?.  WE cannot be inactive and hope the right seed will grow. THe 2nd law of thermodynamics states that if left uncontrolled, things will go toward chaos and the universe will go asunder. If nothing is done, our house would be a mess, our yard would become a jungle.

If I were inactive and continued the status quo, letting xBPDgf abused me and called my children, b*tches, then your theory of inactivity suggests that I should be very happy right now, marrying to the xBPDgf. I beg to differ. I am very happy now not to worry about my mate stabbing me on the back. I sincerely believe my happiness cannot be achieved with the xBPDgf, just like the story of many poster here.

If inactivity theory works, then folks do not have to join this board for support , because the next day their BPDso will automatically be a perfect mate. I should not sacrifice many things in my youth to get a degree, because inactivity will magically bring me my financial stability. I don't think that would be the case.