I'm not able to talk with electronic barriers in place

[formflier]

So... .I had high hopes for today.  Yesterday during my trip there were some ok text exchanges.  Good news from a meeting with an attorney (long story) and in one of my texts I said I would like for us to find time to talk tomorrow and both get on same page with all that has been going on.

This morning in the midst of chaos of getting kids off to school she mentioned that she wanted to talk as well.  I told her it would be late morning/early afternoon and I should have information and thoughts together. 

Anyway (15 minutes ago)... .I go make a sandwich and ask her if she would like to come upstairs and talk.  That I was at the point of taking a break and it would work well for me to take a break.

She made a big deal about turning off the TV and asking me to "come here" and sit on couch with her.  OK... .fine... .I'll sit down there with her. 

We'll... .I start giving my update about lawyers and the fun stuff over there and she grabs her computer (laptop) an starts clicking away at the mousepad. 

I stopped talking... .waited 30 seconds or so while she clicked away.

"If you would like me to wait until you finish what you are doing I would be happy to wait... ."

she says  "No... I'm fine... ." (click click... keeps going... .entire time is staring at laptop screen)

I said "I'm not able to have a conversation with you while an electronic barrier is present... " 

I paused a bit... .there was no response.  So I got up and left the room.

5 minutes before I started this post she emailed me a triple bunk bed setup she found on craigslist.

Sigh... .yet she complains that we don't talk and I make decisions without her...

Thoughts?

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Thoughts... .

Do you expect her to have good and rational conversations with you as part of a decision making process about anything?

Has it gone that way often enough to give you any good reason to expect it to happen? (At least in your post-natural-disaster marriage with her)

[Daniell85]

Does she have a lot of nervous energy? Is that sort of multi tasking a common thing for her?

Aside from the annoyance factor, and the implication that what you have to share isn't important to her as bunk beds... ( which is hurtful   ) I  guess I would tell her that when she is available to talk, you have some things to share. I see zero reason to make yourself present to a situation where she is unwilling or unable to give you her attention.

[formflier]

Thoughts... .

Do you expect her to have good and rational conversations with you as part of a decision making process about anything?

Has it gone that way often enough to give you any good reason to expect it to happen? (At least in your post-natural-disaster marriage with her)

Yes... .that has happened enough that there is a chance... .although lately... .with stress going up... .move and all that... .the BPD weirdness has been coming back.

So... I'm all for trying... .

FF

[ct21218]

I do the same thing.  We were having a discussion last night and he pulled out his phone and started texting.  I stopped talking and walked away.  Same thing happens when out to dinner so now I encourage him to leave his phone in the car.

[sweetheart]

 I'm with GK on this ff, I so often feel that your expectations are just waaaay too high.

Your wife from your recent posts has been quite seriously dysregulated, linked to your move and the stress of all that goes with it. It all sounds really chaotic and stressful, your wife is clearly struggling.

Her priorities are not your priorities and vice versa, the bunk bed is where she's at and it sounds like that's what she would have been happy having a discussion with you about in that moment.

Sometimes looking to see where she's at in any given moment might help you find a more creative way 'in' to discussing other more important things. (There are no guarantees however.)

So perhaps being interested in what your wife was looking at on her laptop and letting go of your need to have 'that talk' at that particular time might have opened up more possibilities for you to start talking about other things.

She will always complain that you don't include her in things and that you don't talk, but that doesn't mean she wants you to. Therein lies the paradox of BPD.

If my h says he wants to talk, unless it's there and then, I would not bring it to his attention again. Why? Because as is so often the case for pwBPD that unless it is in that moment, it ceases to exist later on. He certainly isn't usually interested in 'my stuff' in any kind of reciprocal way, so I don't discuss it with him.

Remember that no matter how much we want our SO to interact with us in a way that fits within normal parameters, the reality is that they just can't. Your wife, like my husband is probably doing the best she can. It is up to us as the non to reframe our expectations accordingly.

[formflier]

She will always complain that you don't include her in things and that you don't talk, but that doesn't mean she wants you to. Therein lies the paradox of BPD.

This is the crux of my frustration... .

FF

[sweetheart]

She will always complain that you don't include her in things and that you don't talk, but that doesn't mean she wants you to. Therein lies the paradox of BPD.

This is the crux of my frustration... .

FF

I know ff I can hear it in your posts.

I wonder what it might look like if you tried letting go of this for a while. Can you do that and see if it lessens your frustration ?

[maxsterling]

I understand your frustration - this happens in my r/s all the time.  And in my case, there is a double standard, too.  Suppose she wants to talk to me while I am doing the dishes, or obviously doing something else.  She doesn't ask for my attention, she just talks, and gets mad if I don't drop what I am doing.  And given the nature of BPD, that means 80% of the things she wants to talk about are not immediate concerns, things I can solve, or things anyone can solve.  End result is she needs my attention frequently, and if I don't have time to give it, she's mad. 

On the flip side, if we are to go out to dinner, on a "date", or anywhere as a couple, she's constantly on her phone.  Facebook, typing a long winded email or text message, or watching some kind of video.  Does it irritate me?  Yes.  Not so much because she is doing something else when we are supposed to spend time together, but because if I was to be equally inattentive, I can expect a rage. 

On that token, I think you need to ask yourself if expecting your wife to unplug when you are talking is a reasonable boundary.  I don't think my wife is capable.  Perhaps your wife isn't, either.  I'd talk to her anyway, and leave it up to her to listen.  Maybe first remind her that it is important before you start talking.  Pointing out to her that you will only talk if she closes her computer will be interpreted by her as you trying to control her.  Perhaps if she misses something important that you have to say, she will learn on her that next time she needs to have fewer distractions.

[formflier]

  Perhaps if she misses something important that you have to say, she will learn on her that next time she needs to have fewer distractions.

Now... .that is funny... .   

She has missed things before... .it's even been pointed out to her in counseling that she has a responsibility to be an active listener... .to pay attention... .yet... .the stuff she missed by multi-tasking was my fault... .

FF

[formflier]

 

If she wants to feel controlled... she can.

I "fess up" that it's my issue... .and that it's up to her.  I'll be happy to talk to her... .or she can work on her phone... computer... .whatever.

If no response... .I walk away.

Like many things... .this seems to have gotten worse with stress... .moving... .all that stuff...

FF

[maxsterling]

  Perhaps if she misses something important that you have to say, she will learn on her that next time she needs to have fewer distractions.

Now... .that is funny... .   

She has missed things before... .it's even been pointed out to her in counseling that she has a responsibility to be an active listener... .to pay attention... .yet... .the stuff she missed by multi-tasking was my fault... .

FF

Oh, for sure.  Or she will claim you never told her.  Crazymaking.

My wife is an addict.  She no longer uses street drugs, but CLEARLY she can't sit still with her own brain.  She's addicted to facebook, texting, and forcing socialization.  I've been diagnosed ADHD.  I have an extreme difficulty focusing on just one thing at a time. 

Yet I know my limitations.  I don't blame others if I miss something.  And my wife has come to recognize that her constantly scrolling through facebook is rude.  She came to that conclusion without me having to say anything at all. 

If your wife doesn't want to listen, that's her problem.  And if you don't want to talk while she is not paying attention, that's your decision, and perhaps a wise one.  Where I see the trouble starting is if you are constantly reminding her of the boundary- which she will interpret as a threat.  When my wife is distracted, I just don't even try to initiate a conversation unless it is urgent.  I'm good at solving problems myself without her input

[formflier]

 

Part of the reason that I invited her upstairs to talk... .is that she would hopefully not bring anything with her.  Plus... no TV in the room.

She declined and wanted me to sit on the couch... .seemed very friendly... .turned off TV (I thought that was a good sign).

So... perhaps I should try to get some consistency in how I ask or respond to her invitations to talk.

My guess is that until sometime past the holidays... .she will be tense and easily worked up.

Once holidays and move are over... .hopefully things will calm.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

She will always complain that you don't include her in things and that you don't talk, but that doesn't mean she wants you to. Therein lies the paradox of BPD.

This is the crux of my frustration... .

Radical acceptance, my friend.

And that is my point. You WANT her to behave in a way she's not very likely to (at least while under stress).

The more you can accept that it isn't likely to happen... .the less frustrated you will be... .and the more likely you are to pick ways of dealing with her that are less frustrating for both you and for her.

You are in the position of having to take the lead, be more emotionally mature, and work around her poor behavior. You don't HAVE to do this, but if you let her lead, it isn't gonna be in a good direction, and you know it.

[formflier]

 

Your thoughts on the offering of a choice... .let her decide.

We can talk... .or... .you can work on your computer... .your choice.

To me... that sounds better than... "I will only talk to you if you xyz... "  sort of same effect... but it sounds better.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Well, that situation--she made a big deal of shutting the TV off to talk to you... .then minutes later started messing with her computer while you were talking... .

It sounds very clear to me that she was messing with you / putting you in your place / playing games.

Walking out at that point without a word would feel right to me, 'tho I might not have thought of it at the time.

Do you really think she wanted any "choice" from you then?

[SurfNTurf]

GreyKitty and MaxS make a lot of sense in this thread, to me at least.

FF, my husb does the same to me. We will be eating breakfast on a weekend morning, lingering over coffee, and he pulls up his phone/tablet and starts playing games while talking to me. What? Is he 15 again? At that point, I stop talking and leave the room. Not in a huff, just he has made his choice clear. The last time he did this, he said, "What? I'm just playing a game" and I said, "You wouldn't have done that when we were dating, why would you do it now? I can see you need some time to yourself, so I'm giving it to you. Let me know when you are available." Then I did my own thing.  I have to rinse/repeat this once in awhile. He can now get through a few conversations without pulling up the electronics, but it's always a boundary test.

[formflier]

 

Does he let you know when he is available?

FF

[Daniell85]

This has been a common tactic from my boyfriend to agree to talk, then to refuse to do so if the subject was one he was "hot" about.

If the subject was about the disability, and since she has been really verbally rude to you about your theoretical lack of a reason to get disability, ie, you are just lazy and trying to pull one over on people, actual progress towards getting disbility may be triggering her and invalidating her belief that you are not really disabled. It makes her look like a jerk instead.

If this is a common tactic she uses, the only way i ever found to get around it was to wait months sometimes to get a discussion. 

Even then it has been nearly impossible. All i am finding is its less wear and tear to just walk away on a lot of things. Not fair, it feels. Its been part of letting go of the dream that my boyfriend is going to be a healthy partner for me.

[formflier]

If the subject was about the disability, and since she has been really verbally rude to you about your theoretical lack of a reason to get disability, ie, you are just lazy and trying to pull one over on people, actual progress towards getting disbility may be triggering her and invalidating her belief that you are not really disabled. It makes her look like a jerk instead.

Even weirder... .to explain my story a bit better.  I've had disability for several years now.  This is not new.  I'm rated at 90% disabled by the VA.  It's a bit complex... .very different from social security disability.  

Basically... .through a series of examinations, tests and things... .the VA has determined that I lost 90% of my "pre-service" ability during my time in service.  Unfortunately for me... .I tend to agree with them.  It is... what it is.

After my last rating decision... .where they denied parasthesia (loss of feeling in my hands)... .my VA doctor (I get great medical care from the VA!) did further testing.

They determined that what I actually have was early state CTS (Carpal Tunnel Syndrome).  That is why I wear the ridiculous splints that I put on my arms before I go to bed.  

Anyway... .putting in a new disability claim with the VA is a bit of a paperwork nightmare.  But that is what I did.  Submitted my new evidence so that the VA can "rate" my CTS.  There are a couple of existing disabilities that I believe the medical evidence shows (and my feelings confirm) have gotten worse.  Arthritis (confirmed by X-rays) in some joints.  

Adding a few extra issues to a claim that you are putting in is not much extra work.  So, I took the opportunity of claiming CTS to do some housecleaning on my other issues.

Doubtful my rating with rise to 100%.  If it does... .I can still work.  

My wife has read about this, I've explained this to her.  VA representatives have explained this to her.  When she is "normal" she can do a decent job of explaining it.

When she is worked up... .sky is the limit.  I have been in a room with her and VA medical people where she argued with them about what a drug was... and what it was for.  "xyz is not used to treat abc in my husband"... ."it is prescribed to him because he has (she said sleep issues... .I have never taken "sleep medication"... .never)

VA person" Ma'am... .the record shows that your husband is prescribed xyz because he has condition abc"  "Xyz is not used to treat sleep"

She claimed the VA didn't know what they were doing.  I'm scratching my head... .

VA person laid out years of experience and professional qualifications and explained to my wife that she was wrong.  Wife got even more agitated... but hushed.

So... .all this to say (sorry it's a bit of a long story)... .that this is not new issue... .and she has completely conjured up the story of my desires with disability... .buddies advising me (I don't talk to buddies about this... .I read the US code that the VA operates under and ask questions of my American Legion rep).

I would get it if this was a "new" fear... .that things would get weird... .

Sigh...

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Do you want, need, or trust your wife as a medical advocate for you with the VA?

[formflier]

Do you want, need, or trust your wife as a medical advocate for you with the VA?

No... this was ancient history story... she hasn't been with me to an appointment or even known about most appointments for well over a year.

Too much of a crap shoot.  When she is regulated she can be a big help... .but the negatives outweigh the positives.

FF

[SurfNTurf]

HI FF - You asked a few posts above if my husb ever let me know if he was available to interact. Yes and No. No in the sense he doesn't in the format/context that "normal" people would do (I know... ."normal" is just a cycle on a washing machine... .) He doesn't say, "Hey lets grab a coffee and go out on the patio."

Yes, in the context he puts the electronics down, says, "Are you busy?" Then before waiting for an answer, starts talking. I'd prefer he talk and interact than hide behind the electronics, so no matter what I'm doing at the time - dishes, making the bed, getting ready for work - I give him my full attention. Some might say he's being manipulative, but I've known him long enough to know it isn't manipulation on his part, it's just how he is.

It is very frustrating, for sure.

It sounds also like your frustration level is maxed out too, b/c your wife isn't available and you're frustrated by the VA.

I work for the VA, I'm a nurse for our local VA hospital. As frustrating, annoying, and seemingly a ridiculous way to live, you just need to keep at them. The squeaky wheel and all... .Could your carpal tunnel have started with duties in the service? Could a neuropathy be related to a diabetes caused by exposure to Agent Orange?

[formflier]

I work for the VA, I'm a nurse for our local VA hospital. As frustrating, annoying, and seemingly a ridiculous way to live, you just need to keep at them. The squeaky wheel and all... .Could your carpal tunnel have started with duties in the service? Could a neuropathy be related to a diabetes caused by exposure to Agent Orange?

Hey... .thank you for the work at the VA!  As I've moved around I've been served by a couple different VA hospitals.  I've always found their care to be top notch.  Anytime I have an issue... .I send one of those private messages to my primary care doctor.  His nurse reads it... .my concerns are handled very quickly. 

i fully expect (and hope) that we've finally nailed down the carpal tunnel thing.   The issues started when I was in service and are fully documented, although misdiagnosed.  The initial thought was that degeneration in my neck was pinching nerves while I slept (in certain positions) and causing my hands and arms to fall asleep.  The pain would wake me. 

A tenacious VA doctor kept after it... .ruled out several things and then testing and wearing the splints confirmed CTS.  VA prescribed the splints.  Now just waiting for the "compensation and pension" guys to formally rule on the issue.

No agent orange exposure... luckily.  Unfortunately I was in several fires and that has contributed to some of my issues... .still not as bad as the agent orange guys.

FF