Annihilating abandonment panic-I think I'm the one w BPD and have lost him :'(

[Senra]

Yes I am aware ... last time this happened he clearly got upset abt something but the facts were wrong so I clarified them for him a hundred different ways through text but he can't absorb new info that way. In person/over the phone would be different I KNOW it would but when he shut down he won't answer his phone nor see me, it's soo effing frustrating bc it's stuff that could be so easily cleared up really! And he denies me access to do that UGGHHH. So yeah I guess I just need to wait it out...

[Senra]

And come up w a different plan for these shut-downs in the future bc they aren't working for us very well ... if he comes back  :'(

[C.Stein]

Senra,

You and I are a lot alike in this respect.  We feel a driving need to be heard and understood.  We feel the need to gain their understanding, to "make" them see what we see.  It's not necessarily about forcing them to agree with us but rather trying to "make" them see our point of view.  When they don't we get frustrated and we try to think of better more logical ways to have our voice heard.  At best this is pushy, controlling and aggressive, at its worst it is manipulative and abusive.  I think this is especially a problem for pwBPD  because their emotions are in such turmoil that they likely can't hear or understand anything we say.

The problem is our approach.  We are engaged in unidirectional communication, which is not communication at all.  We would have better success talking to a wall.  We can send a hundred texts and emails saying the same thing over and over again, rephrasing it in a hope to finally be heard, but it won't help because they are not receptive to our words and thoughts, particularly if being receptive involves them having to look inward.

Until they are ready to engage in bidirectional communication we should probably just take a deep breath and step back.

[Senra]

Yes, in my case it's the need for him to hear me so at least I know I've done everything I can. I KNOW if I was able to talk to him in-person that this wouldn't be happening (he's even indicated this before) but he shuts me out. I'm actually really good at validating the whole BPD dynamic when I've wrapped my mind around what's happening but unfortunately I took too long this time and the system shut down on me :/ So now I have to wait and focus on the irrationality that I won't ever hear from him again and that alleviates the panic if I can trust and believe that. Also once I hopefully hear from him then even if it's bad I also know from experience that it will give me something to work with bc he will be in a place to do that...

[Senra]

How I dealt w it last time was to just accept that he wanted to break up but at the same time I used logic and reason to express that if this really was the best decision then having a regulated conversation abt it together in person wasn't going to change that but that I already knew he was misunderstanding things so I wanted to make sure he was making an informed decision. And I would accept whatever that informed decision was also. That totally worked to start to shift things like immediately. But he was also in a place to hear that even if he had a ways to go from there...

[Senra]

I also find it helps to find ways to believe that they are lucky to have us, to see the situation the way others see it often as w us having the upper hand "Omg they won the lottery being w you they must be crazy" and like get to a place or back to a place where you feel like you have the upper hand bc you really do have so much to offer and etc, and then when you look at what they are doing, they just seem... silly and broken... and genuinely having a hard time... .instead of having all this power to annihilate us! It helps for me to see him as that I've wounded him unintentionally and now he's hiding and I have to wait for him to come back out so I can explain to him what I really meant... w me being the one w the power. Kind of like the way you think abt dealing w a strong-willed child, when you can be regulated and wise w your kids you won't engage in power struggles w them, you let them have their emotions and then you wait for them to regulate so they can listen to you. And you don't take it personally when they scream that they hate you and want to run away, you help them deal w their emotions when they are able to so that hopefully doesn't keep happening. But there isn't usu panic and fear in that dynamic bc it's easier to recognize that even an angry, hurt child w attachment issues really needs us and feels horribly vulnerable and knows on a level that you hold the power... I'm trying to use this analogy today to help me...

[Senra]

You have to get to a place where you believe you have the control, like a parent does, even though you can't really control your child really nor should you try, but you're the leader, you're in charge of how things go... I think that perspective can really help us feel better at least and obviously cause productive shifts hopefully...

[Senra]

The last/first time this happened in our rs, when I got to the place that I described where I was able to just accept where he was at, I had SO much confidence bc at that point I really just let go of the outcome which is really powerful, bc I believed that there was no way he would make a regulated decision to break up based on the correct information, I feel like I would feel like this again it's just that I have this abandonment trigger that is just awful that gets in the way during the uncertainty of this limbo period :/

[C.Stein]

Personally, I don't feel the need to be "in control", I am more concerned with being heard and understood.  I don't want to play conductor to her symphony of emotions ... .it serves no purpose.  If I were to engage her like this, I would simply be creating a duplicate of myself.  This is not what I want.  I always encouraged her to be independent in form and thought.  I have always felt it important in a relationship that each person maintain/keep their individuality.  It is dangerous ground IMO when a couple becomes a single entity at the cost of their own personal identity.  One body ... .one mind ... .etc... .

There were times when she looked to me to "direct" her feelings and emotions, but I refused to and instead tried my best to help her help herself.

[Senra]

Yes... except I don't mean necessarily control over the person but rather control over the dynamic bc that's always largely dependent on the way we feel abt it. If we feel like they have power over us it's going to have the power to inflict a lot of pain. If we believe we are in control of ourselves then we can control our perceptions and beliefs and feelings...

[Senra]

UPDATE: wow so my worst fear was confirmed last night, the anxiety and panic finally became too debiliating and something just felt so WRONG so I messaged him and he replied w almost the verbatim thing of what happened before in our rs that absolutely traumatized me "I just can't do this anymore... I'm sorry... there's nothing to figure out... I'm just not ready for a rs... I don't know what else to say, you've done nothing wrong, you've asked for nothing, it's me...

UGGGHHHHHH there aren't even words... luckily I happened to be near his house so I drove there and thank god he was there, he let me in and we talked and I cried and hyperventilate and asked a million questions and he felt bad and said he couldn't believe he was on this end of it this time that his ex-wife had done this to him so many times and he nvr understood how someone cld just shut down that way but that's what happened... so I ended up staying over and just having him hold me while I cried in bed which he was good abt doing and just lay there awake all night trying to make sense of it from what little he could identify abt his feelings...

It appears that he is in a dissociative state, just shut down, detached from basically all feelings although he said he does have feelings for me still but he's just detached from them although he doesn't feel "love" for me right now he said... he doesn't remember really anything over the past 2 wks (although I can clearly see the pattern and triggers and etc)... he said he just little by little started losing interest in having a rs, he couldn't tell me when (although looking back I can identify exactly how this happened now... )... he said it wasn't me that he lost interest in it was having the rs the way it was and he didn't know how to tell me so he was avoiding me (I knew it)... I said so it nvr occurred to you to identify when this started to happen and say. Need to take space, let's re-define things, etc? The only solution to you really seems to just throw everything away? And he's like yeah I don't know how to think like that I guess and/or have the words... ahhhhhhh!

So I've accepted that this is what it is that I can't make him do anything but what I dd do is give him an idea since he seemed to be struggling w a direction and I said no pressure it's just an idea since I know you still have feelings for me, maybe we cld just hang out nxt Mon night as always and not have to talk abt or process any of this stuff and see if that felt OK or not for both of us and if it did maybe we cld just leave the boundary there and that cld just be our rs for now and if not then that's OK too... I said try not to feel guilty for hurting me that won't help me or you and I will accept whatever our rs is or isn't going to be, it seems we "aren't together" right now and that's OK and you can take my suggestion or leave it but that's an example of a way to maybe try to find another alternative to the expectations and pressures of a "serious rs" since honestly both of us were reacting to that and each other... bc you didn't indicate that you were opposed to perhaps doing that ...

So I might post this question in a new thread but is there anything else I can do to ease this disassociation he's in, like I know that he was slowly detaching once we started becoming closer and then I reacted and I didn't realize what was happening until it was too late and then he reacted to me reacting... and I think that the actual "disocciation" came over the last wk especially and seemed to be probably prolonged by the stress/fear of having to have the conversation w me so I'm hoping that I eased at least some of his stress but is there anything else I can do, like I know I've read that you are "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" so wld it help to just maybe send him a text here and there just Gm have a good day or whatever, to maybe help w grounding him? Or should I just leave it be in his hands and trust that if he's willing and able to be in contact w me he will no matter what?

[cosmonaut]

So I might post this question in a new thread but is there anything else I can do to ease this disassociation he's in, like I know that he was slowly detaching once we started becoming closer and then I reacted and I didn't realize what was happening until it was too late and then he reacted to me reacting... and I think that the actual "disocciation" came over the last wk especially and seemed to be probably prolonged by the stress/fear of having to have the conversation w me so I'm hoping that I eased at least some of his stress but is there anything else I can do, like I know I've read that you are "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" so wld it help to just maybe send him a text here and there just Gm have a good day or whatever, to maybe help w grounding him? Or should I just leave it be in his hands and trust that if he's willing and able to be in contact w me he will no matter what?

It's an extremely painful experience when we lose someone we love, especially when there was once tremendous closeness.  When we have our own scars it can indeed be traumatic.  I'm so sorry you're going through this.  I went through similar and I know how awful and agonizing this is.

As to what you should do, I think it's time to let go.  I know that's the last thing you want to do right now - it was for me too - but it is the best, most loving thing you can do.  It was a real gift that your ex has given you in seeing you again and spending time with you.  He clearly cares very deeply for you, and this is likely something that is terribly difficult for him too.  Now you can give him a similar gift by letting him go.  The problem is that the relationship has become dysfunctional, and it is causing suffering for both of you.  This isn't really anyone's fault.  Not yours.  Not his.  It's simply a result of the relationship dynamics that have developed, and his disorder is playing a part in that, but it is only part of a larger story.

pwBPD have many special needs in relationships.  It is a very difficult task for anyone to be able to meet these needs, especially when we have our own issues.  One of the hardest, most bitter lessons I've learned in life is that two people can love one another deeply, but still not be able to make a relationship work.  With a relationship involving BPD this is unusually true, which is why so many of these relationships fail.  The truth is that your ex is likely making the best decision for himself and his wellbeing.  Ultimately, this is in your best interest too.  There is nothing healthy about being in a relationship where our deepest fears, anxieties, and pains are being triggered.  It sounds like this was true for both of you.  It was for me and my ex too.  It took me a long time to realize this, but it has been a critical insight.

Only by separating can both of you begin to address and repair these issues.  If your ex can find the strength to avoid jumping into a new relationship and once again repeating the dysfunction, there is genuine hope for his recovery.  It is to his credit that he realizes something is wrong.  This is also your chance to begin to address these deep anxieties that you are feeling.  Rushing into a new relationship would similarly deny you this opportunity.  I have come to see that we are often more similar to our loved one with BPD than we initially realize.

Posting here and working with a therapist would be a wonderful way to grieve the loss of this person you love, and to begin the process of healing.  You don't have to do this alone.  I've walked a similar path to yours.  I suffer from bipolar disorder and it has only been recently that I've reflected on how much that impacted my ex, just as her disorder impacted me.  For now, respect your ex's wishes and let him go.  Allow him the space he needs to confront his issues in his own way.  I know you want to help fix him, but fixing isn't an act of love.  We don't fix those we love, we accept them and nurture them.  We allow them to find their own answers about themselves and to develop in their own way.  That also took me a long time to realize.  I spent so much time trying to fix my ex.  I meant it as an act of love, but it only caused her further harm, and it significantly widened the growing gulf between us.  Your ex has BPD.  He is not his disorder, but the disorder is a part of him.  This is the way it is.  We have to accept this.  Whether we choose to be in a relationship with them or not, they have special needs.  If your ex wishes to not have contact for a while, give him that.  He needs it.  He wouldn't be asking otherwise.

You are grieving now and that is completely normal.  It's necessary.  You have suffered one of the most significant losses we can experience in life.  Keep posting here and let the members comfort and support you.  If you have some friends or family that can support you, turn to them as well.  You will get through this, the pain will subside, and you will make some very important discoveries about yourself.  I know from personal experience.  It will just take some time.

[Senra]

Thank you for your response... what makes this so devastatingly heatbreaking is how subtley this happened over such a shirt period of time and how easily preventable it would have been on my end. It feels like it's ripping my guts out. I'm not even sure he has BPD, he really doesn't have any of the other symptoms besides this disocciation piece. I can pinpoint exactly where I could have shifted this extremely easily, had I known that he was going to react like this. He says it's never happened to him before so it's not a pattern in any rs's, although. Suspect bc this rs became very close very fast and that worked bc it was a hidden rs but when we came out we had different sets of expectations/abilities apparently and had I have known that, if I had communicated instead of being passive-aggressive thinking it was safe to do w him bc NOTHING ever indicated THIS would be something that would trigger him, this could have been avoided. It would not have been a big deal for me at all. That's why this is so hard, it's such a shock. There was no communication period/period of trying to work it out and even identifying that it was a problem on his end. He simply started become a little more detached and distant and I overreacted a couple of different times, nothing even significant, but obviously significant enough for him. I can see how it was a combination of a cpl different subtle things it wasn't like a consytant pattern of strife abd dysfunction. I have never been so sure of something being so healthy before. I'm just reeling.

I took all the pressure off and said it doesn't have to be anything you don't want it to right now, why can't that be enough if he comes out of this state? I'm also not trying to fix him but I would like the feeling that I did everything in my power to make sure he has whatever tools available to fix himself and for the environment to be right. I want more than anything for him to want me back so that's why I asked abt the grounding thing but I suppose that is selfish of me, at the same time I feel like if he wasn't in this disocciative state he wouldn't feel this extreme abt ending the rs, he still has feelings for me... .idk :'((

It's bothering me again the fact that he might not read the couple of messages I sent after we left this morning bc I feel again like I want to feel like I've done everything to convey info and he can do what he wants w it, but I feel so out-of-control not being able to get the information across :// It feels so unfair, the whole thing, I feel cheated and betrayed by this person that went together w me into this vulnerable place and never wavered from his intentions as far as his feelings for me... .but I will let him go now bc I suppose it is the right thing do, which is causing me to feel even more devastated... at least if there was some contact I'd have something... this feels like it's going to be a complete cutoff and it's killing me... .I felt so safe w him to be open and vulnerable, I made him my whole world but I did it so mindfully and calculatedly, I wanted to... I relied on him to "save" me I suppose, but it's not that I CAN'T be alone, I just don't want to be :'(( I've been single for long periods of time looking for that right connection, I don't just date just to not be alone... .nothing has ever felt more right in my life than this had...

[Senra]

I forgot to add that another piece is that this was the most intense, closest connection he's ever had w anyone, so the backlash was equally as intense I suppose when the dynamic was triggered even if it was subtle... .:'(

[Senra]

How do you go from being consistent abt talking abt the future, set in stone so-to-speak, to this? I have so many other questions for him that I wish I had asked and may never get the chance now  I did leave some stuff at his place so once I need that I will need to contact him anyway... also he said something abt feeling like it's not right to cut someone out of your life entirely bc I had said please tell me if you never want to see or hear from me again and he said that... although if you just slowly fade away you can still do that essentially :'((

[Senra]

It was the strangest feeling in the world to sit w this man that I loved, that was my best friend, my comfort for everything, he took everything away all the time anything bad that I felt... and to have him be there but not really there anymore... it was terrifying. He could do nothing for me anymore. Ironically the thing that triggered the actual dissociation (there were things that had been making him more vulnerable up to that point), but the thing that seemed to do it was me plunging into despair one day abt not feeling like a priority to anyone and him asking what he could do to help and me saying nothing clearly you cant... :'(( Ugh that could have been so easily avoided! So easy! It was just the perfect storm of everything but I feel like if he hadn't of had the stomach flu that Mon we would have seen each other, connected and that never would have happened that wk. All I would have had to do was understand his need for distance and not make him feel inadequate or put pressure/expectations on him... so easily solveable wowggggg

[C.Stein]

Senra,

I too am having a very hard time dealing with regrets.  Even though I logically know it is over, emotionally I can't seem to find a way to detach.

I'm tired of feeling this way as I am sure you are.

[cosmonaut]

In Ernest Hemingway's novel The Sun Also Rises, one of the characters explained how he went from very wealthy to bankrupt saying, "It happened slowly and then suddenly".  I think that the failure of a BPD relationship is quite similar.  There is far more going on behind the scenes than we initially realize.  There is, of course, always the risk when we discuss here that we are overly projecting our own experiences on someone else's relationship.  Every relationship is unique.  There are, however, some patterns that are noticeable across many, many stories here.  One is that there is building resentment and dysfunction that has built up slowly over the relationship before it all falls apart.  Slowly and then suddenly.

Please try to not blame yourself for the relationship failing.  This isn't your fault.  It's not like that.  This is the result of two people who were not as compatible as they had hoped to be.  That does not mean that you and your ex did not love one another.  Those are not mutually exclusive at all.  This is hard to understand because it goes so against what we are all raised to believe about love - that love can conquer all.  In relationships involving BPD, however, this is not the case.  The disorder can not be loved away.  It can only be dealt with on it's own terms.  And that is very hard to do.  BPD relationships are always hard.  Always.  There is never a time when the non-BPD partner can settle into the relationship and cease to be the emotional foundation.  When we have our own insecurities and mental health issues, this is a nearly impossible task.  Can you see, however, that this isn't anyone's fault?  Not yours and not his. pwBPD are just fundamentally different.  They can't be an equal partner in the relationship.  There will be times when they will withdraw, act out, behave impulsively, cling, rage, and so on.  That is part and parcel of the disorder.  It is unreasonable to expect them to be able to do otherwise.  They have a very real and very serious condition.  We couldn't expect a partner with cystic fibrosis to run a marathon, right?  It's the same with a partner with BPD.  We can't expect them to rise above their disorder just because we want them to.  So, please try and not blame yourself for this.  BPD is simply one of life's tragedies just the same as getting cancer or being blind.

It may seem that if you could have just not said this or had done that things would have been different.  Unfortunately, the underlying dysfunction would still be there.  He would still be feeling the need to withdraw which is immensely painful for you.  You would still feel the need to fix things and pull him back.  He would then feel further ashamed.  Can you see that it is these sort of dynamics that are in play here.  As this goes on, resentments build and the bond between you two becomes increasingly strained.  Emotional distance builds and further resentment and hurt is the result in both partners.  It may seem like you should be able to talk through this with your partner.  This is not, however, accepting the disorder.  There are deep subconscious reasons that your partner is behaving the way that he does, and much of his actions in response are highly impulsive.  He is not planning this, and it is very likely not at all what he wants.  I have no reason to doubt that my ex was completely sincere in her claims until the very end that she loved me and the last thing she wanted was to break up.  I believe her.  I think she wanted things to work out just as much as I did.  It just couldn't.  I couldn't provide the emotional stability that she required and she couldn't provide the availability I so wanted.  We were making each other miserable, even though that was the opposite of what each of us wanted.  The only way to heal was for us to separate and I see that now.

I too wanted so badly to contact my ex.  I still do wish I could speak with her.  She was my best friend too, and I've never felt as close to anyone in my life.  She is immensely special to me, and I love her dearly.  What has always stopped me is my love for her.  I know that contacting her will only be triggering for her.  It wouldn't be the happy reunion I envision.  She needs to heal and she has a lot of work to do on herself before she will be able to have a stable relationship.  I do too.  So, I don't contact her.  I hope that you will be able to find that too.  :)o it out of love.  It is a gift you are giving him.

Keep posting, Senra.  I know this is tremendously difficult and these are terrible things to hear.  It may be too early to process all of this.  I understand that.  It took me about two years to get to this point, and I know I'm not done yet.  Take your time and allow yourself to grieve.  This is a tragic loss.  Let him go, because you love him.  This is an act of true love.

[Senra]

The thing is, if we had had a conversation after we came out of our rs abt what each of us wanted/expected, I would have totally been OK w him needing the detachment and distance he did. It was BECAUSE the conversation wasn't had, and neither of us communicated to each other the subtle stuff that was happening/building until this incident where it happened in a split second. I never had chased him at all or asked for anything from him in reaction to his distance, but I think he must have sensed my growing unhappiness w the situation and this was triggering as he knew/felt he wasn't going to be able to give me what I needed... this would have been such an easy conversation to have though... it breaks my heart... if only I had known it would have such a devastating impact, I thought our rs could withstand this it seemed so connected and loving... I trusted it to provide a holding environment for something like this or I would have taken responsibility instead of being passive-aggressive looking for my needs to be met that way and him feeling inadequate probably or unable/unwilling and feeling he was failing/ashamed... .

[Senra]

*I mean when we came out w our rs

[Senra]

I did not see this as a BPD thing AT ALL AT ALL AT ALL until perhaps now... he had dissociated before but nothing related where I could have predicted this. He was consistent, loving, giving emotionally, he just started seeming a little more detached... if I had been looking at this as BPD this would not have happened :/// I was in a horribly abusive BPD rs for yrs and this was not it but I was also used to how to deal w the dynamic, but there really WAS no dynamic until this :'((

[Senra]

I didn't even NEED to react the way I did, in fact I did it BECAUSE I felt so safe and there was never any indication ever that he would be this reactive. I had the skills to be different, if I had known. Omggggg :'(

And C Stein, this is only the first day I hope to God this doesn't last long and I can let go... I'm letting myself feel the feelings of loss and regret and devastation and anxiety and panic no matter how painful, going through our memories and the ways this was going to impact my life now (in every way, since everything I said, did, thought, saw was somehow colored by thoughts of him. I used to spend a lot of time meditating almost abt how amazing this rs was and how lucky I was that I had finally found what I was looking for... how safe and loved he made me feel... thats one of the hardest parts of this ://////

[Senra]

I felt like I had this amazing gift, I had won the lottery, it felt so stable and peaceful and proetcetdd

[cosmonaut]

I didn't know anything at all about BPD until after we had broken up either.  There is no doubt that you were flying blind;  that's true of most of us here.  I understand this only compounds out thoughts of "what if" and "if only".  I'm still not sure, at least in my own relationship, that it would have been enough however.  It's easy to believe that this incredible connection can carry the relationship.  But you have also said that there was a growing unhappiness you had about the situation.  Would this have really been different if you could have talked about it?  My ex and I numerous times discussed her withdrawing and silent treatments, and I tried to be as patient and understanding as I could be.  I would patiently go 2-3 weeks sometimes without seeing her or talking with her except for maybe a few brief texts.  I was very careful to not blame her or criticize her.  But I also was deeply hurt by it.  I felt like a terrible boyfriend and I struggled to figure out what I was doing that was so wrong.  It took a heavy toll on me and that only increased my need to fix the situation and get things back on track.  Which only increased my ex's feelings of shame and defectiveness about the situation.  Thus, the problem was compounded.  On and on it goes.  The best way to deal with a withdrawing pwBPD is to allow them the space they need, to gently assure them of your availability and emotional safety when they are ready to return, to be as loving and blameless when they reengage.  That is very hard to do for anyone.  Keeping that up over a lifetime is extraordinary.  When we have our own emotional struggles, this becomes a near impossible task.  The only way this can really work is for both parties to correct the underlying issues that are resulting in the dysfunction.  :)oes that help to see how these sorts of situations can't simply be talked through?  That they can't be loved away?  The path to stability has to pass through the healing of these core issues.

[Senra]

It doesn't really help bc I'm extremely familiar w BPD, and this was completely hidden. His "withdrawing" and increasing detachment was so subtle it just looked like what typical guys do sometimes and/or bc of hectic busy lives, and there was no silent treatment in general, we did talk abt that somewhat actually but I had never come out and directly said anything until it built up and I became reactive and even then it really wasn't even that bad, it was more of a general feeling of despair bc I felt not prioritized and abandoned and that clearly he seemed to be saying there was nothing he cld do... this was a sentence. Not an ongoing verbal altercation. I know how sensitive BPDS are though (I don't even know if he has it!) and in rerospect he must have really wanted a rs and thought he could handle it but decided he couldn't and this must have triggered so much shame and fear of failure in him that I never detected AT ALL. When I say hidden I mean hidden. This is beyond shocking to me. I do feel like if we had had a conversation abt this subject that it would have increased my awareness of SOMETHING and I would have known exactly what to do w it. That's what is so frustrating. I feel like this was so easily avoidable, not like most BPD stuff where it is all this dysfunctional really messy entrenched patterns.