She left, again. Is it?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello, first post.  

We had been in a long distance relationship for about 2 years, and it took 1 year of those two until we actually met in person. We broke up (for good, it seems) a month ago, the last time we met.

Now, I wont say I didn't do anything wrong because, granted, I did. She did not like porn, requested me to not watch it anymore and I would keep my word for a month or two at max, until she would find out I still watched it, leave and I'd beg her to reconsider.

It took me a while to realize how she always knew what I talked about with my friends, what I had read or watched or what I was doing: she got a hold of my passwords - Facebook, Google, Microsoft's. Which she would eventually use against me, saying I kept telling my friends she was crazy (the opposite, in fact, was true, I did talk about our relationship and seek advice from a couple of friends, they would tell me to leave, that she was childish and I would stay silent or defend her and take all the blame). She would block me if it took me more than 2 or 3 minutes to answer a text, only to come back hours or days after as if nothing happenned, and certain that my excuses were nothing but lies (I would be far from the phone or didn't hear it or the battery was dead) and I cant count how many times that happenned - blocking and coming back, break ups and rebounds, the fights.

We met again a month ago. We were already sort of separated, but she wanted to experiment a fetish she found out I had. She said that that was all it was, we were not together and she was interested in another guy she met in college. I would try to convince her to stay with me one more time, but it didn't work.

When I was going to class and she was at my house, she texted me a pic of a folder with certain images and called me a retard (I dont know how, since I had my notebook with me at the time and I have no such folder, neither had downloaded anything), said it was over and she couldnt wait to go back to the guy she was seeing. After that she would stay locked in her room and not talk to me for days - except for one night, when we ended up sleeping together but it went back to 'normal' the next day.

I should say that a couple of days after she came to visit, a keylogger showed up on my computer (coincidence?).

A couple of weeks later, I could not resist and e-maild her, saying how much I missed her, together with some lyrics I wrote for her. She laughed, asked if I still existed, said she was with someone else and was HAPPY AS F**K, told me to suck a d**k and forget her.

Some part of me still hopes she'll come back, that once she is done with my replacement (and I hope it happens fast), she'll text me again. I talked to my psychiatrist (I was diagnosed with depression) about my suspicions and he said I was on the right track, that by what I had told him, he also thought she had BPD. Now I ask myself that if I didnt make so many mistakes, if I didnt give her such a reason, we'd still be together or if it would happen anyway, if there's anything I could do. I miss everything about her, her voice, her hair, her body, her smile. It pains me to think she's in bed with someone else.

I dont know, this ended up more as a rant than anything.

Thanks.

[Forteventur]

Hello, first post.  

We had been in a long distance relationship for about 2 years, and it took 1 year of those two until we actually met in person. We broke up (for good, it seems) a month ago, the last time we met.

Now, I wont say I didn't do anything wrong because, granted, I did. She did not like porn, requested me to not watch it anymore and I would keep my word for a month or two at max, until she would find out I still watched it, leave and I'd beg her to reconsider.

It took me a while to realize how she always knew what I talked about with my friends, what I had read or watched or what I was doing: she got a hold of my passwords - Facebook, Google, Microsoft's. Which she would eventually use against me, saying I kept telling my friends she was crazy (the opposite, in fact, was true, I did talk about our relationship and seek advice from a couple of friends, they would tell me to leave, that she was childish and I would stay silent or defend her and take all the blame). She would block me if it took me more than 2 or 3 minutes to answer a text, only to come back hours or days after as if nothing happenned, and certain that my excuses were nothing but lies (I would be far from the phone or didn't hear it or the battery was dead) and I cant count how many times that happenned - blocking and coming back, break ups and rebounds, the fights.

We met again a month ago. We were already sort of separated, but she wanted to experiment a fetish she found out I had. She said that that was all it was, we were not together and she was interested in another guy she met in college. I would try to convince her to stay with me one more time, but it didn't work.

When I was going to class and she was at my house, she texted me a pic of a folder with certain images and called me a retard (I dont know how, since I had my notebook with me at the time and I have no such folder, neither had downloaded anything), said it was over and she couldnt wait to go back to the guy she was seeing. After that she would stay locked in her room and not talk to me for days - except for one night, when we ended up sleeping together but it went back to 'normal' the next day.

I should say that a couple of days after she came to visit, a keylogger showed up on my computer (coincidence?).

A couple of weeks later, I could not resist and e-maild her, saying how much I missed her, together with some lyrics I wrote for her. She laughed, asked if I still existed, said she was with someone else and was HAPPY AS F**K, told me to suck a d**k and forget her.

Some part of me still hopes she'll come back, that once she is done with my replacement (and I hope it happens fast), she'll text me again. I talked to my psychiatrist (I was diagnosed with depression) about my suspicions and he said I was on the right track, that by what I had told him, he also thought she had BPD. Now I ask myself that if I didnt make so many mistakes, if I didnt give her such a reason, we'd still be together or if it would happen anyway, if there's anything I could do. I miss everything about her, her voice, her hair, her body, her smile. It pains me to think she's in bed with someone else.

I dont know, this ended up more as a rant than anything.

Thanks.

[once removed]

hey forteventur and

im glad you found us. i suspect many members can relate to your story; i know i can, particularly when it comes to feeling like my every move was monitored on my computer or cell phone. this was something i was entirely uncomfortable with, and would henceforth not tolerate... .i thought that was my attitude during my relationship, but its not a boundary that i lived up to. healthy boundaries can make for healthy relationships. with a person that struggles with boundaries, as people with BPD do, and some of us here do, flimsy boundaries can be fraught with peril for both parties.

BOUNDARIES - Living our values

i understand asking ourselves the what ifs. may i ask what you enjoy about this relationship?

[Forteventur]

hey forteventur and

im glad you found us. i suspect many members can relate to your story; i know i can, particularly when it comes to feeling like my every move was monitored on my computer or cell phone. this was something i was entirely uncomfortable with, and would henceforth not tolerate... .i thought that was my attitude during my relationship, but its not a boundary that i lived up to. healthy boundaries can make for healthy relationships. with a person that struggles with boundaries, as people with BPD do, and some of us here do, flimsy boundaries can be fraught with peril for both parties.

BOUNDARIES - Living our values

i understand asking ourselves the what ifs. may i ask what you enjoy about this relationship?

Hey, thanks!

Enjoyed, I guess, haven't heard from her since.

I was also a bit uncomfortable with the surveillance, but I felt guilty and didn't want to set a boundary as to not cause a conflict (she would automatically assume I was hiding things, my thoughts were), so even after I found out I still let her do it, or even gave her my passwords.

Idk, I was hooked on her. She was my first girlfriend, and all I wanted was to convince her that I truly wanted to be with her, and also wanted to experience again the times in which she was so caring - our relationship began circa the time I was very depressed, and she did me wonders. Sometimes I think I'll never find someone as interesting as her, with whom I'd reach the same level of 'intimacy' and intensity.

Now most of what I have are regrets and thoughts reaching from longing to jealousy. :l

[unicorn2014]

Hi Fortventur and welcome to BPD family.   

I just noticed you said she was your first girlfriend. I am very sorry for that. Do you know if she had many boyfriends before you?

I'm glad you are seeing a psychiatrist. Do you think the fact that you are suffering from depression might have had a say in you picking a girl with BPD for your first girlfriend? Depression can be really hard to bear. Did you find her supportive at first?

Again, I'm sorry you went through that, it sounds really difficult. There is actually a workshop or lesson on here about being depressed. Perhaps a moderator can link to it if you're interested, I don't exactly remember where it is.

Also, LDR are hard. I've been in one for 3 years with no end in sight and its very difficult. A LDR with a wBPD is very hard even for someone like me who's already been married once and has a child. You picked a very difficult relationship for your first.   

[Forteventur]

Hi Fortventur and welcome to BPD family.   

I just noticed you said she was your first girlfriend. I am very sorry for that. Do you know if she had many boyfriends before you?

I'm glad you are seeing a psychiatrist. Do you think the fact that you are suffering from depression might have had a say in you picking a girl with BPD for your first girlfriend? Depression can be really hard to bear. Did you find her supportive at first?

Again, I'm sorry you went through that, it sounds really difficult. There is actually a workshop or lesson on here about being depressed. Perhaps a moderator can link to it if you're interested, I don't exactly remember where it is.

Also, LDR are hard. I've been in one for 3 years with no end in sight and its very difficult. A LDR with a wBPD is very hard even for someone like me who's already been married once and has a child. You picked a very difficult relationship for your first.   

Hi, thanks. 

I believe she did, yeah. I know she had a couple for sure, and she once mentioned she wasnt used to "being with the same person for a long time" (and that was months ago).

Maybe she wasn't supportive directly, but knowing I had someone that seemed to want me was good enough.

Then after some months she began saying I was useless, I was stupid for going to therapy and taking meds, she didn't love me anymore, that she never thought being away from me would make her feel so much better, and, during our last argument, saying that I "should kill myself, like, NOW", etc. - and I believed/thought I deserved being treated that way, still hoping that I could do something to show her I really cared.

During the last time we met, by the way, she would check my phone and my computer, tho I wasnt allowed to do the same, of course. I knew she had been talking with someone, even when sitting or in bed right beside me, and I felt awful because of it - I mean, she even bragged about it/him when we had that argument

She seemed the most interesting girl I had ever met and the first in a very long time that seemed interested - I had no idea she had BPD before our relationship began, so I dont know if it was really me "picking" her tho

[once removed]

i understand forteventur.

relationships are frequently great teachers in our life. we make many mistakes, date many people that are just short of being the right fit but ultimately incompatible. they shape us, and can teach us what we want out of a partner, and what we want to give a partner.

continuously sacrificing our values to appease someone elses issues tends to be a very shaky foundation on which to build a relationship. setting a boundary might have caused a conflict in this case - a healthy relationship is one in which your partner respects your boundaries. as you can see, avoiding the conflict ultimately did not lessen or make it go away. apart from that, its good to set firm boundaries early on, they are much harder on both parties to set later.

this was your first relationship, and a very intense one. its completely understandable that not everything went perfectly, it never does. the experience has a great deal to teach you though. there is a lot of self blame and what ifs in your post (also understandable). so i would ask, what do you want out of a partner, and what can you give to a partner?

Characteristics of Healthy Relationships

[Forteventur]

this was your first relationship, and a very intense one. its completely understandable that not everything went perfectly, it never does. the experience has a great deal to teach you though. there is a lot of self blame and what ifs in your post (also understandable). so i would ask, what do you want out of a partner, and what can you give to a partner?

Characteristics of Healthy Relationships

Yeah. I could have been more respectful to what she requested and actually do what I said I would, perhaps it could prevent many things - and I blame myself for that.

I want what I believe everyone does, someone interesting, loving, with whom I can talk to about absolutely anything. Id want to share everything good that I could with the person I love. :i

[once removed]

i think those things are desirable in both a partner and a relationship, forteventur.

on the subject of "blame" we may be speaking of two different things. it sounds as though you believe that to make a relationship last, that a person should cave to demands and unrealistic expectations and appease them, that such a dynamic is normal. it may not be uncommon, but its not a healthy dynamic. if a person walks into your life intent on changing you or controlling you, thats entirely on them. its their personality, their fears, need to control, whatever, but thats not your responsibility.

its important that we take ownership of our role in our relationships, yes. it facilitates growth. thats very different than blaming ourselves for being unable to live up to unrealistic expectations that we were uncomfortable with to begin with.

for example, youre not the first couple where one partner monitors all the activity of the other partner. some people figure whats the harm, i dont have anything to hide, and if i dont agree it will look like i do. this is usually a no win situation. the kind of person that is that insecure, lacks healthy boundaries of their own, doesnt respect yours, etc, typically cannot be appeased. they will inevitably find "something" that "confirms" their suspicions.

this was also an unfair situation as you mention. you werent entitled to monitor her. thats a red flag. it says "youre not allowed to hide anything, but i am allowed to hide everything."

human beings need their privacy. good healthy relationships include it. good healthy partners respect it. your gut told you this wasnt right. one mistake(s) most of us made, was often not listening to our guts.

the thing about most of these relationships is that they began and remained very intense. quite often, we mistake intensity for intimacy. i know i have many times. this being your first relationship, it can create an impression that that familiar intensity is what relationships are supposed to be. intimacy is generally best built slowly, over time. it involves trust, which is also built slowly, over time. not by forfeiting your privacy.

[Forteventur]

Yeah, my psychiatrist said that even if I hadn't done what I did (or if I had stopped the first time), she would find something else, anything, to be a reason to fight and break up, but I feel too guilty to even put my head around that,  .

I believed I was the one at fault, due to the things I did/she found, so I wouldnt complain about it - I was the one with something to "hide", not her.

Definitely one of the things I miss is that intensity, that thing that made a relationship with her look way more "interesting" compared to a regular, healthy, "boring" relationship.

[once removed]

so, may i ask what it is you did?

unbeknownst to me, my ex was accessing the email attached to my facebook. she read a flirty (it was more than flirty) message sent by me to someone she was already jealous of.

on one hand i can sit here and point out that nothing would have come of it. i certainly wouldnt have acted on it, and neither would the girl i sent it to. was it inappropriate? definitely, and i regretted sending it for multiple reasons. was it crossing my own values? yeah, it was.

at the same time i cant accept someone reading my messages. any message i had sent her might have been interpreted as flirty. thats not to let myself off the hook. its to point out how twisted and unhealthy our relationship was. it also helps me understand what she really went through for the duration of our relationship, especially after that. what our relationship went through as a result, where the disorder played a role in that. it was something that came up later multiple times, in multiple ways.

most importantly, i examined that dynamic having realized that at this point, im the only one i can change. i value loyalty. i consider myself a loyal person. i wasnt being very loyal when i sent that message, it was counter to my values. i also value my privacy, and i demand respect for it from any partner. i remained in the relationship even after it had, several times, been completely disrespected. all of that is only in my power to change.

so what im really asking you here, when i ask what it is you did, is less what you did, and why?

[Forteventur]

I mentioned in my first post, but, yeah, she had a problem with pornography.

After the first time she found it, I promised to stop but would only keep my word for a couple of weeks or a month or so, sometimes the content would get worse (too much info, Ik), despite knowing that it would only lead me into trouble.

At one point she said she hated me for it and was disgusted, then said she hadn't felt so aroused in a long time, then went back to being disgusted, and so on, until I guess she got tired of it.

After she said she cheated on me/had met this guy, I asked if it was true, and she said that what I did/used to do was the same thing.

Why I did it, knowing it would only get me in trouble and knowing that it's pretty much an unhealthy thing to do? I dont know, maybe I was addicted, maybe I lacked self-control, discipline. That's what I mean by saying I should've respected her requests more, that's my biggest regret - having had many opportunities and still messing up.

I recognize that those were my main mistakes.

She also used to read my conversations on fb (even before I consented to it, heh). I'd usually seek advice or talk to one friend or another after we had a fight. Conversations she would later use against me (she would claim that I used to call her crazy, but the opposite was true: everyone I talked to would say that, and I would always take the blame and stay with her).

[once removed]

i apologize, i had read that, but failed to make the connection.

pornography in relationships is an issue to unravel, saying absolutely nothing about what a given person believes about it. everyone has different perspectives. ultimately yours, pertinent to your values, is what matters. if you believe pornography isnt harmful to a relationship, or doesnt have to be (im not suggesting you do) then its what you believe, and you should seek a partner with similar values. if you dont believe that but try to convince yourself you do, youll be fooling yourself. if you dont believe that but do it anyway, youre going to feel shame, which could feed it. this was your first relationship, i assume you are young, but regardless, some of this confusion over pornography, the fact that  pornography complicated your relationship, those things are pretty common problems, so please dont beat yourself up, but you are definitely asking yourself the right questions. itd be very worth exploring these things with a therapist.

a person that reads your conversations, especially without your permission has no respect for your privacy. by the same token, your relationship deserves privacy. its usually best to resolve relationship issues amongst yourselves. if you need to vent, try one or two trusted friends, preferably people not close to her, whos opinion wont be overly effected when it comes to your partner. sometimes, someone who will refrain from giving their opinion.

i want to strongly recommend the book called boundaries by dr. henry cloud and dr. john townsend. it taught me some of the best lessons ive ever learned.

[Forteventur]

Talked to my psychiatrist and a friend in common (with whom she doesnt talk to anymore) who knew her for longer than I did, and found out somethings about her behavior or things she would say prior to our relationship (as in some level of promiscuity/risky behavior? which I thought she was exaggerating when she told me something similar), which have gotten me to wonder if she cheated on me more times than with this guy.

My doctor said I'm probably dead to her by now, but I still expect to be painted white again or regain contact someday in the future, idk.

Yes, she found it to be unhealthy to our r/s, and by having failed to keep my word/fully commit, I feel guilty.

It would be easier, though, to deal with the break up/guilt had she invent a reason instead of me giving her one so easily. :~

And thanks, I'll check the book.   

[Forteventur]

She made contact. Apparently a "friend" whom I talked to told her that I asked about her, and she sent me an e-mail telling me to stop bothering people and get over it.

Stupidly, I replied, and she said I was making excuses to act as a victim, as always. I replied saying I wasn't the only one to make mistakes and said we know how its going to end, to which she said 'even if it ends tomorrow, it was worth it to cheat on you'.

I asked if she was proud of that, to be answered with 'you cant stand i'm happy without you' and 'you'll be alone the rest of your life' (and, of course, mentioning her sex life with him and how she has done more to him than ever did for me, devaluing the one we had).

I gave up, I'm sorry for her, she must be ill. I dont want to believe anyone 'healthy' or 'sane' would say these things and feel such pleasure in hurting, crushing who they once said to love/loved them.