Anyone else's BPD do this?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Trying not to give too many details, but this has been a huge pattern for BPDh, and it really knocks me sideways: he'll get angry at me over something DURING sex, and just stop, and march out of the room. It's just super bizarre. It happened again, just last night.

Here is how last night's scenario panned out: He asked if we could make out(I asked for clarification if this meant "sex", to which he said "it might lead to sex"... .he has trouble with direct answers, obviously). While he was kissing me, I noticed he was sniffing a lot, and I know when he takes his Cialis(it's like Viagra), it gives him the sniffles. Now, his sex drive has taken a nosedive, and I feel he's depressed. He said he had taken one, and I asked him if he has to take one in order to get turned on, and if he still finds me attractive. This upset him that I even asked. He did reassure me(which he HATES doing, that he does find me attractive, and only took the Cialis because the doctor gave him samples).

We kept going, and during sex, he in a mean voice says "You obviously aren't enjoying this", and I replied, "I am, but I'm not always going to make Porno type noises". We've had this discussion that that's really just not ME. Sometimes I need to concentrate during, and that in no way means I'm not enjoying it. I enjoy playful sex, sex where you can communicate, quickie sex, all different sorts of sex, but it seems like HE has this one set idea, that all sex should look and sound like a Porno. After my statement, he got off me, and barged off.

This type of thing has happened A LOT. I've never had this with anyone else, and I'm at a loss as to how to deal with it? I mean, he acts this way outside of sex too, so it's not surprising, but I'm not quite as vulnerable as I am when we are having sex. It's gotten to the point I'm dreading having sex with him! Oh, and he likes to hurt me physically during sex, but lately he hasn't been doing that(he knows I don't like that). Why can't he just enjoy me the way I am? I've explained kindly, that real women aren't all as loud as porn stars(some are, some aren't), plus I have a daughter in the house.

How best to deal with this? I'm really hurt when he does this, and when I tried to address it with him, he went into his whole spiel: "too much damage has been done in our marriage", "we have a broken marriage". All negative stuff he knows I don't agree with. Sure we have issues, but I'm dealing with his BPD/NPD, and I manage to stay way more positive than him! It's a choice, and how you choose to look at things. It's perspective and outlook and effort to see the good.

I'm stumped on this one, and was halfway embarrassed to ask, but I figure I'm probably not alone in this... .

[Ceruleanblue]

Trying not to give too many details, but this has been a huge pattern for BPDh, and it really knocks me sideways: he'll get angry at me over something DURING sex, and just stop, and march out of the room. It's just super bizarre. It happened again, just last night.

Here is how last night's scenario panned out: He asked if we could make out(I asked for clarification if this meant "sex", to which he said "it might lead to sex"... .he has trouble with direct answers, obviously). While he was kissing me, I noticed he was sniffing a lot, and I know when he takes his Cialis(it's like Viagra), it gives him the sniffles. Now, his sex drive has taken a nosedive, and I feel he's depressed. He said he had taken one, and I asked him if he has to take one in order to get turned on, and if he still finds me attractive. This upset him that I even asked. He did reassure me(which he HATES doing, that he does find me attractive, and only took the Cialis because the doctor gave him samples).

We kept going, and during sex, he in a mean voice says "You obviously aren't enjoying this", and I replied, "I am, but I'm not always going to make Porno type noises". We've had this discussion that that's really just not ME. Sometimes I need to concentrate during, and that in no way means I'm not enjoying it. I enjoy playful sex, sex where you can communicate, quickie sex, all different sorts of sex, but it seems like HE has this one set idea, that all sex should look and sound like a Porno. After my statement, he got off me, and barged off.

This type of thing has happened A LOT. I've never had this with anyone else, and I'm at a loss as to how to deal with it? I mean, he acts this way outside of sex too, so it's not surprising, but I'm not quite as vulnerable as I am when we are having sex. It's gotten to the point I'm dreading having sex with him! Oh, and he likes to hurt me physically during sex, but lately he hasn't been doing that(he knows I don't like that). Why can't he just enjoy me the way I am? I've explained kindly, that real women aren't all as loud as porn stars(some are, some aren't), plus I have a daughter in the house.

How best to deal with this? I'm really hurt when he does this, and when I tried to address it with him, he went into his whole spiel: "too much damage has been done in our marriage", "we have a broken marriage". All negative stuff he knows I don't agree with. Sure we have issues, but I'm dealing with his BPD/NPD, and I manage to stay way more positive than him! It's a choice, and how you choose to look at things. It's perspective and outlook and effort to see the good.

I'm stumped on this one, and was halfway embarrassed to ask, but I figure I'm probably not alone in this... .

[Samuel S.]

You are right unfortunately. You are not alone with this issue with your BPD unfortunately. Indeed, it is another aspect of dealing with a BPD. He doesn't like really being close, whether it is for sex or not. Granted, guys like sex, but so do women. With a BPD guy, I can only suggest that while you both are not having sex, that you both talk not always about sex, but relating to one another and what matters to the both of you. If this is uncomfortable for him to do, therapy, individual and couple, would be the next step to take.

With my BPDw, she told me some 9 years ago that she considers herself as a daughter during sex. Thus, this has been a major turn off for me. Yes, we are 17 years apart; however, this has never been an issue in the past.

In your situation and in mine and with other nonBPDs relating to BPDs, it is difficult for them to truly relate. "Sometimes when we touch, the honesty is too much" is a lyric which is so very true for them.

I empathize for you and for all of us nonBPDs who have to deal with BPDs dealing with intimacy, both sexual and otherwise. It truly is hard to communicate with them, because they can't or refuse to be close.

[Notwendy]

I think sex is very tough for men with poor senses of self. I think there is "performance anxiety" even for the strongest egos out there. It has been explained to me that, well, if we aren't in the mood, it isn't obvious. To a man, well it's obvious if something isn't working. I think ED is emotionally difficult for even the strongest of marriages, but imagine this along with shame.

BPD is on a spectrum, and you know that no two men will act alike. But there are some similarities. The toughest years for me were a few years after we were married, my H got very angry at me. If I look back it was probably due to me being pregnant and just not feeling up to the action as much. He didn't connect this to the pregnancy, and I assumed he did. To him, it was the worst of rejections. I had no idea what was happening. I was painted black, especially in the bedroom where he would either ignore me, or I would have sex with him just to keep him from raging at me.

When I asked him to explain why- of course again, I assumed he would know why he was treating me like this, but in the long run, I realize that his answers were so all over the place, some of them strange, that he would say what came to mind, anything, except reveal his deep feelings of rejection. So, I got all kinds of hurtful things such as I didn't do this or that, some of it from porn.

But I never knew he even wanted these things. I don't think I deprived him of what I considered to be a good sex life. He was talking stuff I never imagined doing. I don't watch porn. Nobody I dated ever spoke about these things. I had not even heard of anyone doing them.

He claimed being married to me was "depriving " him of these experiences. That was a horrible feeling for me, but honestly, if this is how he saw being married to me as deprivation, then I would rather he have left and found someone else who wanted to do them too. I thought about it, and realized I had to be true to myself and only do things in the bedroom that I was comfortable with. But I did struggle with the idea, more than I should have as it was painful to think he was trapped in an unhappy marriage. I, on the other hand, had not ever been unhappy with him in the bedroom either emotionally or physically. Now, the emotional impact of his criticism changed that for me emotionally and for me, the two are so linked that I no longer enjoyed any of it.  

Once he did get angry at me in the middle of things because I said something that he took as a criticism or thought I was ordering him around. I meant none of those things. Then, when I tried to explain, I got the usual " well you should have said it this way or that way.

We are older now, and he did get some of those pills. I don't mind that he did. We are middle age and neither of us are bunny rabbits in the bedroom. He was ashamed to tell me. I felt sad that this man can be intimate physically but could not talk to me about this. I would bet that for your husband, admitting he took Cialis would feel demoralizing.

We have made a lot of progress in our relationship, but I think the time where he rejected me and said that he would not be happy with me because of the things I would not do has been the hardest for me to deal with. I feel robbed of that sense of security one has when we can love someone wholeheartedly. I think he too has realized that what happened took something away from us. It makes us both sad but it is the best I can do for now.

He says he is happy with me now and doesn't feel the need to do more than what we do. However, it is difficult for me to forget that and believe him.

[formflier]

 Focus on the rules:  They word during sex as well.  For communicating, remember, less is more.  

Trying not to give too many details,

         Don't worry about it, just lay it out there, we are all adults and this disorder is an "intimate" one.  

   He asked if we could make out(I asked for clarification if this meant "sex", to which he said "it might lead to sex", he has trouble with direct answers, obviously).  

         Remember:  Less is more.  Perhaps instead of driving for specifics, stay playful.  "What does making out mean?  I need details"   

  and I asked him if he has to take one in order to get turned on, and if he still finds me attractive.   

         This seems provocative to me.  During sex doesn't seem to be the time to get into those details.    Remember:  Less is more  

 We kept going, and during sex, he in a mean voice says "You obviously aren't enjoying this", and I replied, "I am, but I'm not always going to make Porno type noises".

         JADE alert.  What would have happened if instead you had playfully said "Make me enjoy it" or "I'll give you a report card later, " or anything other than to directly address and explain it.  

 We've had this discussion that that's really just not ME. Sometimes I need to concentrate during, and that in no way means I'm not enjoying it.  

         Keep having the discussion and remind him that you need lots of practice!  

  but it seems like HE has this one set idea, that all sex should look and sound like a Porno. After my statement, he got off me, and barged off.  

         It's good that you know what he likes.  Very simple, you don't have to figure it out.  And notice, he barged off after the statement.  It pushed him over the edge.  You were in control here.  If the future you will be in control as well, think about ways to nudge him towards a better place.  

 This type of thing has happened A LOT. I've never had this with anyone else, and I'm at a loss as to how to deal with it?  

         Just like the rest of the BPD stuff, follow the rules.  No JADE.  Let him have his reality, you have yours.  Don't sell your version and don't buy his.  

  Why can't he just enjoy me the way I am? I've explained kindly, that real women aren't all as loud as porn stars(some are, some aren't), plus I have a daughter in the house.  

         Why can't you enjoy him the way he is?  Even better, let him worry about his enjoyment, you worry about yours.  Take baby steps towards each other during sex to "do it their way".  

 and when I tried to address it with him

         Stop trying to address it with him.  There is lots here YOU are in control of.  It will change the dynamic and force him to come along (yeah, I went there, )  

  It's a choice, and how you choose to look at things. It's perspective and outlook and effort to see the good.    

         Yep, let him look at it his way, you look at it your way.          

FF

[flourdust]

Without knowing anything at all about any baggage around sex or related issues you guys may be having, this is the moment where I cringed:

I asked him if he has to take one in order to get turned on, and if he still finds me attractive.

I think having to take an ED pill is already kind of a wound to one's masculinity, and your questions really strike to the core of the male ego. Hell, I don't think you'd need to be BPD to feel invalidated by that.

[formflier]

Without knowing anything at all about any baggage around sex or related issues you guys may be having, this is the moment where I cringed:  

I asked him if he has to take one in order to get turned on, and if he still finds me attractive.

         I think having to take an ED pill is already kind of a wound to one's masculinity, and your questions really strike to the core of the male ego. Hell, I don't think you'd need to be BPD to feel invalidated by that.

         Exactly! 

[Notwendy]

I would agree not to make anything out of that Cialis pill and it isn't personal to you. I think one good effect of it is that it reduces performance anxiety. That's tough enough as it is without BPD.

From what I know about it, it doesn't work on its own. The man has to have some sort of "turn on" along with it, so if it works, assume he is turned on.

I was hesitant about the idea. For one, I am menopausal and the idea of having the clock reversed for a man and not me caused me to feel anxious!

But that didn't happen. What I have found is that, feelings like anxiety or performance anxiety can affect a man's ability to function. And if that happens it leads to more anxiety. So if the main effect is less anxiety, then that is a good thing.

I think that episodic ED is a normal thing that can happen, but it can feel very demoralizing to a man. I don't think we women quite know how that feels. Better to say as little as possible about the Cialis. I don't think having to take it has anything to do with a man's masculinity, but I think it is hard for men to see that over time, hormone levels diminish as much as it is for us.

My guess as to what is going on with your H is that underneath his behavior is a very insecure man who is likely to be so anxious that he is dysregulating in the bedroom. The Cialis might make a change for the better.

Did you mention he is taking medication? Some medications also have a negative effect on sexual function and he may be concerned about that. The Cialis might help with that too.

[Ceruleanblue]

Okay, I left out a lot of the backstory, that I think will cast a different light altogether about what I said to him about the Cialis. When BPDh and I first started dating, he was super concerned about his ED. I'd never been with anyone with  it, and to me, it wasn't a worry. I was very understanding, and frankly, I didn't find it to be an issue. For a while, he took the Cialis, but when he'd forget, he performed the same. He's always able to  get his erection back, and his losing it isn't a big deal to me. It's a functionality issue, not a desire issue. We've talked about it quite a bit, and I was just surprised he took a pill out of the blue. I don't care if he takes them or not, I was just worried if he'd lost his desire for me.

Plus, for the last three years, he hasn't taken any Cialis, which was why I was surprised that he did. Coupled with his depression, and lack of sex drive, was more worrying to me. I wondered if his desire for me was gone, and what his goal was with the Cialis. I don't care if he takes it or not, and he knows I'm very accepting of his ED. I know he was sensitive about it, but I think my downplaying it made him feel much better. So much better in fact that before he left me last year, he was talking about wanting to screw other women.

And yeah, we had an agreement about porn before we got married. My first marriage of 19 years, I feel was helped towards ruination by my ex's doing porn. He'd have rather watched porn than have sex with me. I also caught a guy I was dating doing it, and yet I felt we weren't having nearly enough sex. After BPDh and I  reconciled, he was telling me how much he missed porn, and that he wanted to have sex with an Asian woman, have a threesome, and get into BDSM. We tried BDSM, but he took it too far, and he then lost interest.  For someone with ED, he sure seems to only be embarrassed about it with me. I mean, he couldn't wait to have sex with someone nasty just a couple weeks after he left me last year. That still hurts.

Formflier: I do know what BPDh likes during sex, but I am no longer willing to be hurt physically during sex, which is what really turns him on. He also likes me to act like a porn star, and I'm no longer willing to act like someone I'm not. NO ONE else has ever been unhappy with me sexually, in fact quite the opposite. BPDh is the least sexually experienced I've been with, and yet he's the most demanding, and difficult to please. He's also sexually selfish. I've tried flirting with him, and keeping it light, but he thinks sex has to be super serious, and one way, HIS way. I don't trust him enough to play wrestle during sex, and I learned the hard way that he takes BDSM too far. He now says he's fine with never having a threesome, or sex with an Asian woman, but he sure is missing out on all that WE could have.

I really don't want to control our sex lives, I just want it to be mutually satisfying, and for him to stop getting mad during sex, and for him to just let me be me. Also, when I asked him what "making out" really meant, I was being playful, but it just falls flat with him.

[Notwendy]

ED is difficult for a man to deal with emotionally even in the best of circumstances.

I was willing to talk about it and be understanding, but my H was not and he would get angry if I tried. If he had his preference, I think it would have been for me to not know about it at all. But it was kind of obvious   and I was surprised, also a bit upset that he didn't tell me. After all, it does involve me.

To an extent though. I think some of the feelings, insecurities, worries or other sexual issues are unique to the individual. I also think what two people do has to be mutually agreed on. Good for you for upholding the boundary to not hurt you. If he has to hurt someone during sex, that is his problem. If he threatens to have sex with someone else to manipulate you into doing something that will hurt him then that is a manipulation. This isn't being loving or respectful to your spouse.

Sure, people like to spice things up. I am not advocating prudishness or refusal to do things to make sex more enjoyable for both people. However, there is another side to sex that makes it enjoyable- and that is the emotional connection. Otherwise, we may as well have one night stands or hook ups. Nothing wrong with that if someone wants to do that, but that isn't me. I valued the emotional connection of marital relations. Not having that can take a toll on our self esteem. If you fear your H isn't attracted to you and that he wants someone else, that can affect your self esteem. If it takes hurting you to make sex pleasurable for him, then is that acting loving to you?

You can stand up for yourself and your boundaries. Sex is an agreement between two people. If your H wants something that would violate your boundaries, then that is his problem, his choice. However, I would propose that his unhappiness is a part of him and would be there no matter what, unless he chooses to do something about it. My guess, is that even if he had 10 women in bed doing what he wanted, he'd be unhappy and blame the women for it. This is the tendency of BPD- to look outside of oneself for the solution- but the problem isn't something or someone else.

Our challenge is to realize that we can only do what we can,do the best we can, and not take it personally.

[formflier]

Okay, I left out a lot of the backstory, that I think will cast a different light altogether about what I said to him about the Cialis.  

         Didn't really change my opinion.    Remember, pwBPD feel things in the moment.  What you said makes sense to you.  Zero chance it made sense to him.  He was in the moment.  You "pierced" him in a soft spot when hew was vulnerable.     

When BPDh and I      That still hurts.  

         What can be done to get past that?  I suspect as long as that is around, the desire will be there to hurt him back.  

  and I'm no longer willing to act like someone I'm not.

         Apparently you both approach sex the same way.  How is that working out?  

  I really don't want to control our sex lives, I just want it to be mutually satisfying, and for him to stop getting mad during sex, and for him to just let me be me.  

         It seems as though you do.    I'm curious about what you see as a solution here?          

FF

[Notwendy]

About your H having sex with someone else soon after he left--

Yes, it hurts, but I don't think it has anything to do with you. Consider that BPD is a disorder that affects the most intimate of relationships- the people closest to us. If a man is insecure about himself, sexually, then it would be easier to have sex with a stranger than with someone very close to him. So much less to lose in that relationship. Less anxiety maybe which might lead to less ED.

Also, if your H were to want someone else, it isn't necessarily about you. It is his issue and his choices.

Consider that your H's feelings are not about you, but about him. He may be projecting on to you. However, you can not control this.

It's hard to compete with porn. However, even that isn't something you can control. Porn can set up unrealistic expectations. Porn doesn;t involve a relationship with a real human being- both the joys and the challenges.

I don't believe you should do something you don't feel comfortable doing.

I think it would help if you could feel confident that you can offer your H what porn cant, and what a stranger can't- a real relationship over a temporary thrill. You can make sex as enjoyable as you can, but only as enjoyable as a real person can.

[Ceruleanblue]

Formflier:

I'm stumped. How exactly am I trying to control our sex life, when all I'm doing is setting boundaries about not wanting to be hurt? Heck, I even threw myself into BDSM, just involving BPDh, and I, yet he quickly hurt me, and then lost interest when I wouldn't let him actually hurt me again. I don't enjoy having welts, and bruises, and I think that is well within my right.

He controls him, and I control me. All I want is to do things we both enjoy, sexually and otherwise. I'm willing to do some things that aren't exactly my thing, but I do have boundaries. He'd like me to do things I find super degrading, and I'm not into that. Most involve pain and humiliation. How is that love? Oh, and I'd never want to hurt him, or try to hurt him back. That just isn't my style. I have friends that suggest knocking him down a peg or two, but to me, that just puts me on HIS level, and I refuse to do that.

NotWendy is right, connection is huge for women, and BPDh does intellectually know this, but I feel he's too BPD/NPD or something to bother.

My worry about him not wanting me lately is new, and I believe his dwindling sex drive could be because of depression. This walking off during sex thing is not new, and it is hurtful, but I don't feel it's hurt my self esteem. I dated for 6 years or so, between my marriages, and had enough relationships, and gotten enough feedback to know I'm more than okay sexually. I just view it as BPDh's tastes are a little beyond the "norm" for most people, and so I'm being filtered through that screen, and the screen of NPD.

He does not get to damage my self esteem any more. Those days are long past. I like who and what I am, and I've worked hard to get there. I just wish I could in some way help him or encourage him to see what we have, and what HE alone has, so he could be happier. But I can't, and that is the curse of BPD, or maybe even just pure stubbornness. He has to want to seek out happiness, and I'd think a good sex life where both are somewhat accommodating, and flexible(pardon the pun), would be part of that.

And I really do feel that I offer so much more than porn can. To me, porn is so deceiving. These people are paid to do this, and I'm sure lots of it hurts, and there is acting involved. To me, I get why it turns men on, but it's like watching pro wrestling and thinking its real!

[formflier]

  He does not get to damage my self esteem any more. Those days are long past.   

         Yes 100% agree.  I hope that you consider his self esteem in the same light.  Step back, take a big breath.  Look at sex before he walked of from the point of view of his self esteem.    It got pierced, damaged (whatever you want to say) and he walked off.  Can you see it from that point of view?  Not asking you to determine right or wrong, but can you put yourself in his shoes?  Try to experience what those words were like for him?  I understand that he may not be able to do this for you (step into your shoes)          

FF  

[Ceruleanblue]

Formflier:

I totally get what you are getting at, but I do not think that is what happened. He says he barged off because he felt I wasn't "enjoying it". I do not feel he barged off because of a hurt ego. If that was the case, it wouldn't even have proceeded to sex. I feel he is trying to control me, and manipulate me into continuing to do what he wants, and when I didn't do that, he got angered. Plus, this is far, far from the first time he barged off, and the other times, nothing was said or done that could possibly be construed as hurting his ego.

He tends to barge off it I'm not living up to his expectations. He is turned on by the taboo, and while there are some things I'm willing to do, I've decided that he was pushing my boundaries too far. I want to enjoy sex too, and I just can't when I'm always pretending to be something or someone else other than ME.

He wants and expects me to behave and act like he has seen in pornography, and I feel as Notwendy says, that is HIS issue, not mine. He doesn't even pay attention to when I tell him what I actually enjoy sexually. He does what he wants, and to heck with what makes me feel good. I'm willing to do things he likes, but not at the cost of my self esteem(and some of what he suggests would damage my self esteem, or how I view myself), and I feel he should be happy with how far I've gone to meet his needs. He sure doesn't remember or care, about mine, and I've just learned to try to be happy with what I do get. It just doesn't leave me feeling like I'm an actual individual with him. I mean, I listen, and try to meet HIS needs, because I love him. And I can fully empathize with his about the ED, which has never been an issue for me.

Again, I just don't think that he barged off due to my earlier question. I think he barged off, like so many other times, because I wasn't living up to his "standards". We discussed it later, and he actually told me he still didn't think I was "into it", and it upset him. We've had many a conversation about this issue, and that I'm not always going to be crazy vocal, but to HIM, that is what shows my involvement. If he doesn't get that, it's barge off time.

I am trying very hard to empathize with him, but it just feels like I do what he wants, or he'll just barge off.

[formflier]

  I totally get what you are getting at, but I do not think that is what happened. He says he barged off because he felt I wasn't "enjoying it". I do not feel he barged off because of a hurt ego. If that was the case, it wouldn't even have proceeded to sex.   

         Either way, saying those things during sex to someone with an emotional disorder is recipe for disaster.  We can spend a long time guessing at why he barged off.  You will never know for sure.  Even if he tells you, he is telling you how he feels about it now, and likely doesn't remember how he felt then.  If you want him to "listen" to you about what you want sexually, you have to lead the way in "listening" to him.  Focus on the tools, try not to remember times in the past that you tried to listen and it didn't work.    I understand there is a lot of hurt around this subject.  You are the only one that can lead on this issue.  Take a step towards him on this, encourage him to step towards you.  He will fall short, as will you, but keep trying.    Remember, pwBPD are very sensitive.  They pick up on all kinds of attitudes.  There is nothing "wrong" with how he likes sex, nor is there anything wrong with the way you like it.  My gut tells me that he is picking up on your distaste for his sexual desires.  They are desires and not "issues".  The last advice is really not about what exactly to say, it's about a mindset, .an attitude.  Take the lead on this!          

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm way past trying to get him to "listen" to me. I've used the tools in regards to this, but he just doesn't care. I don't think it's that he doesn't listen, per se. When we've had discussions, outside the bedroom, about sex, and preferences, he acts as if he understands, but it always goes back to him doing what he likes, and avoiding what I like. That's pretty much how he is in all things, so why would sex be any different. He's very narcissistic.

I don't have any clue what you mean by "listen" to him. I've done nothing but listen to him, and then go about trying to meet his needs, sexual and otherwise. I hit a wall, and now I've decided that I don't want to be hurt anymore during sex, and I don't want to be "fake". It isn't about control, it's about me having enough respect to stop caving in to his manipulation.

I respectfully disagree that his desire or need to hurt someone during sex isn't an "issue". In my book, that's abuse. Just because it's during sex doesn't make it okay. I wasn't consenting to be physically hurt. Even when we tried BDSM, we discussed it first, and it was agreed that it was more about "play" than actual pain, and he didn't keep his word.

Some people like sex with children too, but that doesn't make it okay. There ARE some sexual practices that are "wrong", and I think rape or deliberately hurting someone who didn't consent to it is WRONG.

I am trying to maintain a good, positive attitude about our sex life, and I'm open to try new things, but I also have some boundaries in place.

[formflier]

   Remember, a core tenant of the rules/lessons is that change in the relationship comes from the non.  This will "force" the pwBPD to change their approach.  Also critical that you demonstrate a good mindset/approach to finding solutions.  Very little in life is "always" one way or "nothing" or applies to "all things".  My guess is that he picks up on this vibe from you and it feeds his black and white thinking.  What can you do to improve your ability to listen to him?  (no action, just be present and focused).  How would you like him to listen to you?             

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I don't think there is a "solution". He likes what he likes, and I can't change that. It does not however mean that I have to do what he likes, if it's outside my boundary, or comfort level. I feel the same way about him. I wouldn't force him to do something he is uncomfortable with. I suggested role play several times, but it's become obvious that he's not interested. I dropped it, and wouldn't think of forcing the issue, or coercing him.

I don't think I suggested that things are "always" or "nothing", and I try not to deal in those concepts. BPDh does struggle with black and white thinking, and it's made ME a lot more conscious of it too.

BPDh has never complained that I don't listen to him. In fact, he just thanked me tonight, for being such a good listener. He had a huge work issue, and I listened to him vent. Not long ago, he brought another concern to me, and again thanked me for listening. In fact, his work issue, involved him not being a good communicator. He knows he struggles with this.

I guess I don't know what you mean by "how" I'd like him to listen to me. I'm not sure he has trouble listening, I think he has trouble empathizing, or caring. I think he hears, he just doesn't care enough to follow through, maybe?

I do know BPDh considers me a good listener. He may find fault with a lot of other things in me, but he does say I'm a good communicator and listener.

[Notwendy]

It is inevitable that relationship issues will play out in the bedroom- the same two people are there - relating to each other. There seems to be a pattern of your H looking at you to prove his being loved, or desired - by some sort of sacrifice or pain on your part - that being time with his family over yours , your son, or allowing him to cause you pain during sex or have you do something you don't want to do.

When you do not go along with what he wants - he turns this into a "story" in his mind- he sees you as the one who is rejecting him, saying he is not loved, or defective and then he feels like a victim and lashes out at you, or stomps off in bed.

Your side of this is when you think it's also about you - that he doesn't find you attractive or does not care about you. So the two of you are playing this out in many aspects of your lives.

He is insecure and deals with this by playing out this drama in his mind. But you didn't write the script. It was likely there before he met you. It is sad that he feels this way- but you can't fix this for him.

You can decide to not take it personally- as hard as that is. It isn't easy to deal with these issues in the bedroom. Both of you are vulnerable then. The slightest thing can be felt as a deep insult - to him and to you.

However- I do not believe you have to consent to something painful or degrading to you in or out of the bedroom. Although you may fear him wanting another sexual partner I would bet that his issues would also be at play with anyone else because they are his. Someone else can't fix them.

The best we can do is look at how we fit the shared drama of our own hurts with other people and work on our own emotional healing .

[formflier]

  Ceruleanblue, I've been following your story for a while.  Lately (past few weeks) things seem a bit more "raw" or strained.  Are you experiencing that?        

   I don't think I suggested that things are "always" or "nothing", and I try not to deal in those concepts. BPDh does struggle with black and white thinking, and it's made ME a lot more conscious of it too.    

         

 but it always goes back

         

I've done nothing

          Being present and trying to be a better listener is a skill we can all try to improve on.  Remember, you will have to lead on this.  

He doesn't even pay attention  

       

[Ceruleanblue]

No, I don't think it's more raw, I just think he's in another downward spiral. Now, his job is also at stake. He came home last night, and I listened to him for quite a while, as he's now on notice at work. He thanked me for being such a good listener, and I'm really hoping this work thing might be some sort of wake up call for him.

He's saying he's going to really work on his issues, and try to get some help(or I should say back into therapy), but he just seems so depressed that he doesn't want to actively DO any of this.

I can listen all I want, or he wants, but ultimately, he's the one who has to do the work, and be proactive on it.

People with BPD seem to cycle, and I've just viewed all this as another cycle. I just don't know when he really may cut me off the team though, because that's usually his first step. I think this job threat has made it so he needs or wants my support more? It's like he has to put out that fire, so he's temporarily stopped flaming at me.