mental health eval?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I really wish I could just move away. So today is Thanksgiving and I tried to be nice and invite ex to stop over and say hi to daughter. I knew he didn't have anywhere to go today, felt bad for him. So he stopped over this evening. The whole time he complained that he has never seen a kid with a runny nose like daughter has. He will only have to put up with it for 3 more years. (whatever that means?)( She's had a cold since last Monday, only two colds her life). He paced back and forth from room to room, just spacing out. He would say a normal sentence and then make like this deep loud sigh over and over. I offered him some dinner and he said he had eaten too much earlier. Daughter was crying alot. She always is like that when her dad is around. She will reach for something (I taught her a sign to use when she can't reach something) and say "want" Ex says she is whining, ignores her, then she starts crying. Then I say "oh she wants ... ." and hand it to her. Then he says I spoil her. I am just responding to her when she tries to communicate. I've told him her hand signal is her way of saying she can't reach. This went on a few times. I said "oh she's just tired, she'll be better in the morning" Just trying to get him to relax. He says "oh ya? she cries all the time". Then he leaves and I heard some voices outside. I thought at first he had made a phone call before getting in his truck. Then I recognized my landlord's voice. I looked out the window and saw my landlord walk away from exes truck. As soon as ex pulled out he called me. He said he went to back out and realized my landlord was standing at the back of his truck. He said he told my landlord he just stopped by to say hi. He said he can't take this anymore, he can't take anymore stress, said he had only had 2 bites of food today and felt sick. My landlord lives under my apartment. I don't know what the heck went on outside, but I am going to talk to my landlord in the morning. I am thinking he was looking in exes truck(It is filled to the top, a trailblazer). I don't know, I am just sick of drama. His breathing is so bad I wonder when he will keel over. He says he has asthma, I've seen inhalers, but it comes and goes. I don't know if it's really asthma or just an anxiety thing?  At what point can I say he needs help? Has anyone been able to go to court and get a mental health eval for their ex? What did it take?

[rarsweet]

I really wish I could just move away. So today is Thanksgiving and I tried to be nice and invite ex to stop over and say hi to daughter. I knew he didn't have anywhere to go today, felt bad for him. So he stopped over this evening. The whole time he complained that he has never seen a kid with a runny nose like daughter has. He will only have to put up with it for 3 more years. (whatever that means?)( She's had a cold since last Monday, only two colds her life). He paced back and forth from room to room, just spacing out. He would say a normal sentence and then make like this deep loud sigh over and over. I offered him some dinner and he said he had eaten too much earlier. Daughter was crying alot. She always is like that when her dad is around. She will reach for something (I taught her a sign to use when she can't reach something) and say "want" Ex says she is whining, ignores her, then she starts crying. Then I say "oh she wants ... ." and hand it to her. Then he says I spoil her. I am just responding to her when she tries to communicate. I've told him her hand signal is her way of saying she can't reach. This went on a few times. I said "oh she's just tired, she'll be better in the morning" Just trying to get him to relax. He says "oh ya? she cries all the time". Then he leaves and I heard some voices outside. I thought at first he had made a phone call before getting in his truck. Then I recognized my landlord's voice. I looked out the window and saw my landlord walk away from exes truck. As soon as ex pulled out he called me. He said he went to back out and realized my landlord was standing at the back of his truck. He said he told my landlord he just stopped by to say hi. He said he can't take this anymore, he can't take anymore stress, said he had only had 2 bites of food today and felt sick. My landlord lives under my apartment. I don't know what the heck went on outside, but I am going to talk to my landlord in the morning. I am thinking he was looking in exes truck(It is filled to the top, a trailblazer). I don't know, I am just sick of drama. His breathing is so bad I wonder when he will keel over. He says he has asthma, I've seen inhalers, but it comes and goes. I don't know if it's really asthma or just an anxiety thing?  At what point can I say he needs help? Has anyone been able to go to court and get a mental health eval for their ex? What did it take?

[Turkish]

raresweet,

I've been following your story, though I may have missed some details here and there.

What I see from the 30,000 ft view, so to speak, is your desire to help your Ex become a better dad. There is nothing wrong at all with showing kindness, patience, and mercy.

Teaching him to parent, especially within the context of his emotional dysregulations and overall odd behaviors, however, isn't your job. Keeping your baby safe is. His comments about Tylenol that you related in your other thread were a  to me. Your baby seems to be reacting to his moods and behaviors. Do you feel that your daughter is safe with this guy? Are you safe?

T

[livednlearned]

Hi rarsweet,

What would change if your ex was to get a psyche eval? Do you suspect your ex may have something other than BPD?

[scraps66]

I, unfortunately, have a lot of experience with psyche evals.  The value of them for myself, but also the disappointment of going through the painful process of getting my ex to get her court-ordered psyche eval.  When I first Petitioned the Court to allow me to get our then S8, now S11, troubled son some counseling help, the Custody Master did not write an order to allow me to take S8 to counseling, but she wrote an order to have us both psychologically evaluated.  A year later, I had done my psyche eval, but had made three additional trips back to court to get ex to have hers.  There were two poorly written orders, and two contempt hearings neither of which were forceful enough with consequences to have ex get a proper eval.  What ended up happening is that ex found some local, deadbeat, unethical Dr. to administer the exam.  It was bogus and a ridiculous evaluation.  So ever since I've been left with the disappointment of having this opportunity to have ex, finally, evaluated and have that information in hand in case I really needed to go back to court.  Huge letdown.

So your situation is a little different but I'm giving you the background - there's nothing saying a psyche eval would change anything.  I do understand the need for piece of mind and go through it all the time, "it would be nice to really find out what her problem is," as a means of self validation.  In fact, a psych eval alone does little without supporting information which would probably be a full blown custody evaluation.  Lots of $$$,  Additionally and I've found some recent information online about my own courthouse - there's nothing saying the court will do anything even having this expert information in hand. 

Bottom line - you can"t MAKE him change.  It could be that your daughter's reactions have something to do with the dynamic she feels between mom and dad.  I would suggest rethinking "being nice" and feeling any obligation to help ex along to become a better father.  You can do that by supporting your daughter in her relationship with dad, but that doesn't have to mean that you have dad over for Thanksgiving.  Holidays can be the toughest for kids and parents and I see the close proximity as unhealthy.         

[livednlearned]

scraps, that does sound like a poorly written court order.

rarsweet, you can be very specific in your court orders -- this took me a while to learn! The motion can specify the type of psyche eval, how many days until it must be completed, consequences for not completing it, and the names and/or type of psychiatrist qualified to administer the test (not all psychiatrists are trained in forensics evals, for example).

Your ex sounds like he might possibly have something else going on, and he also sounds like someone who would not do well on either the objective MMPI-2 psyche eval, or a more subjective psyche eval.

My ex had the subjective psych eval where he met with a forensic psychiatrist for four sessions and she wrote a 10-page report that had some bogus sentence like, "a personality disorder cannot be ruled out." I was so upset that there was no official diagnosis, yet looking back, that 10-page report said a lot about inability to regulate moods, self-medicating with alcohol, delusional and paranoid thinking, anger, rage toward major female figures in his life, inability to describe son's inner emotional life, narcissistic and grandiose thinking, etc. The judge didn't have a diagnosis, yet he had a pattern of behavior described to him that matched N/BPDx's behavior in court.

If you go through all of that, it's good to be clear about what you want and why. If there is already a court order in place and you are ignoring it by giving your ex more access, then it's good to acknowledge that. Because if the court gives you a strong boundary and you ignore it, then if you ever have to head back to court to reinforce that order and it comes out that you're part of the problem, you'll lose credibility and quite possibly lose whatever outcome you were seeking.

If you want a diagnosis thinking that your ex will get medical help, be prepared that he may blow off the diagnosis altogether.

It's stressful to go through any kind of psychiatric test and can be very triggering, especially when there is custody involved. Is there an end goal that you're working toward, in which a psych eval will help you get there? Or do you want a diagnosis to help you with your own boundaries?

[rarsweet]

A year ago when I described exes behavior to my counselor she said it sounded like drugs or disassociating. Later describing it to one of the coparenting advocates I work with she said drugs or disassociating. I didn't even really know what that was before they said it to me. Then our judge in court asked him if he was on drugs. Recently I have had my boss and customers ask me what he's on. He really isn't on anything. That's how bizarre the behavior is. I remember once when we were together we were arguing and I told him he was crazy. I meant in like he was exagerating. He started screaming "  I'm not a paranoid schizophrenic, I'll show you all" I was like whoa he must have been told this by someone before. His only time in the parenting plan is Thursday 2:30-8, Friday 5-9. and Saturday 3-9. Santa was coming to our town for pics with kids yesterday. I told ex about it since I had to work. He said he didn't want to bring daughter because he doesn't want to be around people in this town. I just dropped it. Well my mom told me she had yesterday off so she asked if ex would let her take daughter to see Santa. I texted him and I got over 20 texts back. He doesn't want daughter out in the cold(It was at the park), he doesn't want daughter in a park where people smoke(no smoking in public parks), He doesn't want daughter around other parents in this town because they are mean to their kids, he knows a Santa we can all go see together(as in him and I), I don't appreciate him enough, I need to approach him differently, she gets plenty of fresh air with him, he's not going to argue with me, etc, etc. I couldn't even respond since I was at my first job in the morning. I was just like ok pick her up at 4:30. I did text him later and said that although some parents around here sucked I wasn't going to have daughter miss out on good things.Then after I got home that night he calls me saying I shouldn't talk about what I do with daughter, I shouldn't do anything with her without him, I can't decide what she is going to miss out on or not, coparenting means parenting together, I don't appreciate him, He would have had stable housing if I had let him take daughter to live with his sister when we broke up(he wanted sole custody and to move away), he would have had his life in order if I hadn't filed a parenting petition and just let him go, he asked me if I am going to take off with daughter when I finish school, he said he hasn't been able to get a job because he is working around my schedule. Just a bunch of craziness really. Apparently the 3 evenings a week he has her makes him unable to find a job. I just let him rant for 61 freaking minutes and told him to concentrate on getting a job and housing, and that when daughter is with me I will decide to bring her to Santa or not. Tonight he just texted me "guess you're working your butt off cause I don't see it anymore " I am going to just ignore everything that doesn't have to do with daughter. I am not going to try to be nice anymore. Serious boundaries going back up.I will not offer him any more time with daughter. I have asked him a few times like last week I had an eye exam so I asked him if he wanted daughter for an hour. I have asked him two Tuesday nights to take her for a couple hours while I go to my committee meetings. No more. Since August he has had her 3 evenings a week while I work, those Tuesdays and the eye appointment, and one weekend he asked to have her while he visited his sister. That's it and no child support, no contributions at all, and that is cramping his life and I don't appreciate him. I'm done. I want an eval so I know if he is safe or not. I wonder if it is safe if he is dissociating or whatnot. Could he forget he has her with him? Will he just snap and go into a rage? Should he be driving? What is up with his breathing. I seriously wonder if he is going to pass out? Is he going to be capable of thinking before he gives her meds?  I want to describe how he gets daughter in his truck. He will open the door, look at daughter, then put her in her carseat, look in her ears, look up her nose, look at her nails, once no joke I had missed 3 fingernails(she got squirmy), he went to the back of the blazer, opened up the hatch, and dug around in his piles of stuff and got out his hygiene kit and came around to clip her 3 nails. Yes while he has just gotten her in the truck. Then he will get annoyed because she has a coat on, so he will unsnap her buckles, take her coat off, then he will start calling her a brat because she is screaming, then he'll grab her her cup and try to shove it in her mouth, then she'll push it away, he'll start shaking, oops maybe she is too hot with shoes on, so he'll take them off and rub her feet, now he has to wipe her eyes and nose from crying, so he has to find wipes, rub her face and eyes and nose, then find her stuffed cat that fell when she was screaming, then recheck her straps, then he'll hunt around for a box of crackers to give her some,then he'll finally close her door, it's New Hampshire cold, then get in the driver seat. By then he is shaking and huffing and puffing. Seriously it is like  10 minute ordeal every time he picks her up. Every time. When she eats he can't stand her face messy. Every bite she takes he wipes her face. So of course she starts fighting and she has food in her mouth. So she starts choking and then he crams his fingers in her mouth. So then she cries and fights and he calls her spoiled. Meanwhile he shoved the food into her throat that was just in her mouth. Messed up thing I watched him watch her take a really big bite of food. He grabbed sanitizer from the front seat and rubbed it on his hands and then shoved his fingers in her mouth to dig it out. She starts gagging and puked. In his car. I guess he wanted to make sure his hands were clean before he put them in her mouth? But she puked from the sanitizer. She wasn't even choking before. How the heck do you describe these things to a judge without seeming crazy yourself?

[livednlearned]

Safe is a relative term.

I used to think abuse meant being punched or slapped or kicked. Over time, doing my own healing, I can see now that being safe means having good boundaries.

You feel worried enough to want a psyche eval, so chances are he is not safe. That doesn't mean you have to exclude him from your daughter's life. It probably means that he needs you to be supervising everything. If he is BPD, and he is disassociating or experiencing delusions, he probably does not have the emotional maturity to handle the stresses of parenting.

It's such a horrible mental illness. It can seem like they are functioning ok, and then you see inside and realize how unstable and sad it is. If you have a young child, it may be best to err on the side of maximum supervision and discretion until your daughter is old enough to put a safety plan in action if it comes to that.

[rarsweet]

I second guess myself. I notice I have been trying to keep him calm.I rationally know this isn't my job. I keep thinking if I don't set him off he'll be ok. This is arrogant. Someone else or something else can set him off, i see it. Yes I am afraid if he's not hitting her it seems as though she is safe. When we were together ex talked about his dad being a pervert. He said his dad had 2 wives who he basically sold. He would video them having sex with men while he got paid for their services. He said him and his brother found the videos when they were teens. He would talk about his dad ogling the teen cousins in the family. Yet he was attached at the hip to his dad. It drove me crazy. He said when daughter was born he didn't ever want his dad changing her diaper. Then when we broke up the judge said he had to stay in my town to have shared parenting. So ex moved in with his dad. I couldn't understand how he could want daughter there. I knew ex would deny anything if I brought it up in court so I didn't say anything and just waited for ex to screw up. Well in August he and his dad got evicted. He is now done with his dad, doesn't want anything to do with him. He says he can remember his dad having peepholes in the bedroom and bathroom walls to look at his daughter and stepdaughter through. Exes former stepsister is saying that exes dad abused her as a child, but she isn't ready to talk about details. As I hear all this I am like what the heck! How could this man bring our daughter, his baby around this man, live with him. Ex says he had to because our judge told him he had to stay here. Seriously the man just wants someone to live off of, support him. Even if that means daughter lives with a sexual predator. His dad hasn't seen daughter since August. ex won't speak to him at all. I do wonder though would ex patch things up if he thought his dad would support him again. Who would ex live with just to get supported? While I don't really see ex ever hitting daughter it's all the other stuff that worries me so much. Luckily I do have texts about his dad I could bring to court if I had to.

[Turkish]

Speaking as a dad whose D2, 3 was likely fondled by her uncle (not a sexual.predator, per se, but a foolish teen who crossed a felonious line), it goes without saying that you can never let your baby, at any age, alone with her grandpa, knowing what you know. It needs to be clear to her father as well.

[livednlearned]

Where do you want to take things from here? Do you want supervised visitation for him?

[scraps66]

Rarsweet, I catch the two statements that you want the psych eval to determine whether he is safe or not and that you second guess yourself.  The second guessing is something that gets engrained - maybe FOG, is nons the result of being around someone who is mentally ill.  They have this effect on YOU.  I deal with it, I feel as if I have someone watching my every move ready to pounce and make light and talk to the kids about... .like getting S11 a haircut and they didn't cut the sideburns correctly and he looks like a little Amsih kid... .blah, blah.  It's always something. 

From what you've conveyed, I don't think a psych eval is necessary to confirm your concerns of ex.  I think your concerns are valid.  Believe them.  But also move away from them and don't get hung up trying to "figure out" what his issues are.  There are definitely issues.  I spent a lot of time at the beginning, after I found this site, reading and researching (I'm an engineer so a natural problem solver and this is a disbenefit in this instance) BPD to figure it out.  It just so happened to be at the same time that I filed for divorce.  What I should have been doing was getting educated on the legal process and how best to get through the divorce and do the right things for S8 and S11.

If you do in fact choose to persue this avenue, just consider the fact that if you march into court and "request" this evaluation they may very well turn this around and say, "OK Ms. Rarsweet, we will give you the psych eval, but since this is something you want, you shall pay for this eval," and there is $2k out the window.  Then, if you really want to do something about this there will be at least $2k in legal fees that you will also have to pay.  For yourself. 

Since you do have majority parenting time I don't yet see the justification. IMO.  You really need to pick your battles economically.  THIS is something I learned after $1000s of dollars spent.   

[rarsweet]

Thank you guys for your insights. You are right, I really don't need an eval to tell me something isn't right. I am going to reassert some boundaries and stick to them. I will not offer him anymore time than the 3 evenings a week while I am at work. I will not respond to any communication that doesn't have to do with daughter. He texted me about 10 times since Saturday asking what we were up to tomorrow, then good luck with my finals, then hope I get some rest on my day off, then hope my good mail comes soon (something I am expecting), I ignored them all. He is just looking for hotspots to get my attention. Finally he texted this morning asking how daughter's cold was. I just responded that her cough is gone and she still has a little runny nose. End of communication. I will not invite him to anything I do with daughter. Doctor appointments are of course the exception. He had asked me months ago to invite him to the next time I take daughter to the child development program I am involved in. I took him 2 previous times and all he did was have an anxiety attack there and we had to leave. So I decided I wasn't going to spend my time with daughter dealing with his issues. So a couple weeks ago I went and they do assessments while we are there. I had previously been giving him copies. I hadn't given him the newest one because I was afraid he would flip out that I hadn't invited him. Well I will give him a copy this week and too bad if he flips. He could do the programs with daughter without me but he doesn't. I have asked my brother if he could watch daughter for a couple hours if I have an appointment or something. He agreed so I won't ask ex to take daughter for more than his ordered time. He has said that he may have to let his truck get repossesed soon. I will not offer to get daughter to him. The order is he picks her up. If he doesn't make it I will get a sitter. I will not answer the phone when he wants to call and whine about his life. I would like to revert to email communication but he doesn't even have internet. If he self destructs even more so be it. I know the woman he has been staying with mostly is moving at Christmastime, she just got a new boyfriend. Ex will again be scrambling to find a place to take daughter during his time. If he can't figure it out I will go back to court.