PAS, Activities and What to do?

[scraps66]

I attended my S8s first wrestling tournament on Sunday.  Not my day with the kids but I go to all the activities.  I arrive and S8 is there, was brought to the meet by exNPD/BPDs boyfriend.  S8, who I do have a good relationship with, is very cuddly with the boyfriend, they have a good relationship.  Then ex showed up with our troubled S11 later in the meet.  I am friendly with the bf, we watch S8s meets together, but I hear him talk and it is as if engrained in him that - these kids are his, too.  Not boastful or anything, but when I am standing with my S8 watching his friend's match, and the bf comes up and whispers in S8s ear, to come with him to the mat where he will be wrestling, was a little odd to me.  I'm standing there with my son, and he takes him away.

This has been building now for years, using PAS too particularly on S11, to make the bf the "dad" to minimize or as our coparent counselor put it, make dad be more pedestrian or "incidental" in the lives of these kids.  So now that it has been discussed in front of the coparent counselor, ex has the scoresheet and the validation to know that what she is doing, alienating, is working.

I have also through conversations with the boyfriend, come to realize that he is not getting the whole story about S11s incidents at school.  Ex is consistently resistant to applying any sorts of consequences after S11s outbursts at school.  I have mentioned a few incidents to the bf, one in particular I mentioned, and he responded, "oh, really, I don't think S11 got any consequences at home after that," and I suspect there are many other occasions like this where he is not getting the full picture.  This has become the way that ex makes it "look" like everything is a lot better than it actually is. 

So I wonder how to proceed, how to address the pedestrian practices that ex is using - having bf take kids to their activities without even asking me.  Do I send an e-mail saying this?  The other thing that I have debated is discussing S11s behaviors with the bf directly, expressing my concern that he may not have all of the information required to properly deal with S11 if he is helping to raise this child.  I am leaning towards discussing this concern directly with the bf.  I know there is a high probability of this backfiring on me and could potentially have ex lashing out at the bf. 

After months of unsuccess, we had ended coparent counseling last spring.  Amazingly and I think not coincidentally, S11s behavior during this time has been the worst in comparison to the time before coparent counseling.  So I don't think it is a coincidence that there I was for months sitting in sessions with ex, discussing primarily S11s behavior, withholding much but saying enough, to give ex validation that her PAS was in fact working and what I was saying was no doubt validating what she was doing (in the BPD world).

S11s behavior is now as such:

Appears to be making an effort to express his lack of interest or enjoyment of time when with me;

Claims all of the clothes I have for him don't fit:

Doesn't like the food I cook though I cook the things he likes (ex's bf is a good cook and has lots of free time);

When at my house will pick clothes to wear that come from his mother's;

Appears to wear clothes very similar to what the bf wears;

When asked about having homework, will deny having homework - and I check, and he does have homework;

Resists doing any of the activities he likes, like riding his bike, at my house;

etc.

S11 is also taking viola lessons - at his mother's, but mother will not give me the instructors contact information to arrange lessons at my house.

Today I will end our WrapAround Services.  These are counseling services available for the school district through supplemental health insurance.  I have struggled to make S11 available for these services over the last year.  Ex did not participate at all.  The counselor comes to the house and sits with S11 on a weekly basis.  Due to the lack of consistency, and the lack of effectiveness, there is no longer a point in trying. So all this time ex did not take advantage of this opportunity.

About a month ago S11 had several episodes on the bus, hitting and choking kids.  So bad that before he was even off the bus parents were calling the school and threatening to get the police involved.  This is a new school this year for him the change proposed by the school dist due to his poor behavior last year, end of the year (during our coparent counseling period).  He is now in the SD's emotional support school where the staff is better qualified to handle children like S11.  The bad behavior continues.  He then gets put on the "special" bus, and continues to have issues.  Mom now picks him up from school.  Another special consideration made to accommodate S11s bad behavior instead of fixing the behavior.

So after this incident I e-mail ex stating that I'm proposing we take S11 to a psychologist.  I state where.  I get an e-mail in response that she has already made the apt for intake.  OK< so this is how it usually starts.  (Keep in mind, the previous two years she wanted nothing to do with the WrapAround Svcs even though it was something she had started.)  Rather then responding and confirming that we are doing this, she goes right ahead and makes the appt.  Control.  I had also months earlier suggested we use a high-powered, private psychologist who I had been referred to, out of network, to help S11.  I have her the out, out-of-network, her response was "noo, I am not in agreement with going out of network."

So she had the intake with S11.  I called ahead, explained the situation and the dynamic, that I didn't think it was good that we would both sit in a room with S11 and discuss his issues.  My observations are very different from ex's.  I met with the therapist last week, by myself, to further discuss. 

But, I am already doubting how effective this will be.  Ex makes the next apt, but doesn't tell me and it is at 4pm - too early for me to work with, but early enough for ex to get him there.  My fear is that, again, she will try to take over making the appts only good for her schedule and then take S11 to all of the appts.  I have suggested a later time, and that we use a time and day that is the same each week for consistency.  Her response was that the 4pm time doesn't conflict with dinner time.  Oh well, I think dinner can be worked around, can't it?

Ironically, two years ago, before ex started the WrapAround Svcs, I had suggested we take S11 to a psychologist at "County X Office."  Ex talks to "County Ex Office."  Instead of going to County Office X, ex gets the WrapAround Svcs started without even telling me.  So now I'm doing away with WrapAround.  Ex is now initiating and controlling therapy for S11 - at County Office Ex.  She's just playing defense, all the time, and zigging when I suggest zagging.  So I still fear that since we're not both on the same page, this will be yet another unsuccessful avenue to take for S11.

I guess I just started feeling bad and powerless over my relationship with these kids after the wrestling tournament. 

I continue to consider going back to court and just demanding a custody evaluation and getting everything out in the open. But that is no slam dunk and not cheap.             

[david]

I don't know if this will help but what worked for me was to ignore my ex and just do what I thought best for the kids. When I tried communicating with her (engagement) I found that she would zig when I suggested zag just like your experience. It may have been a control thing but I stopped trying to figure her out. She would always pull the rug out from under me.

I eventually got 50/50 and that helped with a lot of her alienation tactics. Our boys were reluctant to talk to me years ago. I stayed steady, consistent, and focused on their needs and over time things got better. It took a little over three years for our youngest to open up to me.

Realize too, that the bf will probably do things "wrong" at some point and be blamed, accused , etc just like you. My ex was married once before. When my ex first ran away the ex mother in law called me to warn me about what she would do. She was spot on as my ex followed the same playbook. I did not respond the ways her first husband did and that threw her for a loop yet she continued doing the same things. I realized she had a limited range of behaviors and could not adapt. It took me a while to see that. By minimizing my interaction with her I was able to do what I thought best for our boys and she had no idea what to do. My ex needs interaction. It helps her "gain control" by causing chaos. When I stopped reacting and minimized interaction I noticed extinction bursts. I received several intense emails and then it died down. A few weeks later the same thing.

I also noticed that she would "threaten" me with something or with the kids and when I didn't react she never followed through. Not responding to her during those times took some practice at first but it did get easier. It's like a two year old temper tantrum.

In your situation minimizing your interactions may force her to focus on something else ie bf. He will become the new you and things will probably follow along the same path as prior. By interacting with her you are giving her the outlet she needs to keep her new "relationship" going.

[Nope]

It sounds to me like the best thing to do is start treating the BF like he is the co-parent. I'd take David's advice and just steer clear of the ex as much as possible. Co-parenting with her is not working. The only person there that you can hope to have meaningful communication with is the boyfriend, so use that.

At best maybe you can work with him and be more help to your kids. At worst she can't stand that you're actually trying to work with him and shows her true colors. Either way it doesn't hurt to try. He is the closest thing the kids have to a protector in their mom's home.

[scraps66]

Nope, that was also one of my thoughts, start telling the bf what is really going on in a way that will help the kids.  Because like you say, there is no communicating or co-parenting with the ex.

[bravhart1]

My first  red-flags as that therapist was willing to have appointment with a minor without consulting BOTH parents first, there should be an attempt to notify both parents, get releases signed, etc. it sounds like you contacted therapist, not the other way around?

Second, in an effort to prohibit any PAS or at least in an effort to be inclusive, the therapist should be insisting that appointments are rotated, mom brings one week, dad brings next week, and so on. Then you can have contact with therapist, and schedule the appointment you bring son to at a time that works for you. If therapist isn't 100% on board with this, then I would ask myself why therapist seems to be condoning alienating you out if therapy and address it. You need to be part of the process, or BPD mom will just control the sessions and son will get nothing of use out of them other than his moms PAS being reinforced.

[david]

If you take that course I would suggest to leave ex out of the conversation and focus on kids. If he brings her into the conversation steer away from that topic as best you can. Let him figure ex out on his own. This keeps you from triangulating and playing ex's game. That becomes a no win situation for the kids. It's a delicate balance to co parent with him but it could work if handled properly.

My ex had a baby sitter years ago. Ex trashed me fiercely to her. I could tell the first few times I had to interact with her. Eventually the sitter figured it out and I was no longer the bad guy that ex portrayed me as. Something happened a while after that and ex fired the sitter in a dramatic fashion. My guess is that the sitter said something positive or at least not negative about me. That was against ex's portrayal of me so the sitter had to go to protect ex's view of the world.

bravhart1 makes an excellent point. My ex tried therapy for our boys at a place that was very pro mother and anti abusive fathers. They excluded me from everything. They wouldn't even talk to me on the phone when I called. We had a parent coordinator at the time so I took it up with her. I pointed out that I was not being included in the therapy. The coordinator gave me 48 hours to contact the place and get back to her. I emailed the director with specific questions that a counselor friend of mine helped me with. I received a response asking to identify myself. I told them I was the father of S5 and S8. They never replied after that. I forwarded all the emails to the coordinator and she ruled that the kids could only go to therapy that included both parents.

Ex then found another T that included both of us. We went separately with the kids. After three meetings the T said I didn't need to bring the boys anymore unless I thought it would help. She said that the children and I were fine and that she thought it better if she focused her attention on mom and the boys. She said she would keep me in the loop and we would meet maybe once a month instead of once a week. Ex went a few times after that and when she figured out what happened she fired her too. The T called me up and told me what happened. It is frustrating but I found other ways to help them.

[scraps66]

All good points.  I've played the exclusion game before and this is why I arranged my own intake with the proposed therapist.  Ex took S11 by herself.  I told he, and before him, his supervisors, what the situation was.  Super agreed that it would not be good to do an intake with the three of us.

I can tell ex is trying to control as she's trying to make the appointments without asking me what is good first.  She gets home earlier than me so she's made two appts at 4pm.  I have told her what I wanted and have told it will be she takes him one week, I take him the next. 

She has tried this in the past with scheduling after school activities early at a location that could only be supported by the bf taking the kids everytime.