Regretting a lot of things. Please let me know If I was right or not.

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello, I posted a couple weeks back about a r/s falling apart with my BPD gf. After the breakup, (she broke up with me to have sex with her co worker who she began to idealize) she begged me to take her back. Both times I caught her still being in contact with the guy she dumped me for. Once on her phone, and the other friending him on facebook. Along with two suicide attempts, constant push/pull behavior I began to lash out at her. I told her how hurt I was and how she's been really manipulative and using me. In a weak moment I told her maybe we could try again someday giving her all the control back. The thing is I realized this couldn't work. She kept saying she was going to change but she really wasn't. She ended up expecting me to forgive her, which I was trying to do, but yet remain friends with the guy.

Am I just losing it or is that totally screwed up? She ended up telling me I wasn't making any progress, that I couldn't move on and she was trying with me. I told her that how can I move on if you're still hanging out with the person you dumped me for? she just said she "doesn't want me deciding who her friends are, we're friends big deal" and also told me she regretted dating me and that she doesn't give a crap what I think.

So basically, I'm filled with regret, even though I'm pretty sure it's not my fault. I feel myself blaming myself for not forgiving her but... .I don't feel she really tried... .I think I'm losing it, I can't believe i let myself be completely taken control of by someone. Was I right to confront her on this and deal with the consequences of being split black?

[TheSarcasticOne]

Hello, I posted a couple weeks back about a r/s falling apart with my BPD gf. After the breakup, (she broke up with me to have sex with her co worker who she began to idealize) she begged me to take her back. Both times I caught her still being in contact with the guy she dumped me for. Once on her phone, and the other friending him on facebook. Along with two suicide attempts, constant push/pull behavior I began to lash out at her. I told her how hurt I was and how she's been really manipulative and using me. In a weak moment I told her maybe we could try again someday giving her all the control back. The thing is I realized this couldn't work. She kept saying she was going to change but she really wasn't. She ended up expecting me to forgive her, which I was trying to do, but yet remain friends with the guy.

Am I just losing it or is that totally screwed up? She ended up telling me I wasn't making any progress, that I couldn't move on and she was trying with me. I told her that how can I move on if you're still hanging out with the person you dumped me for? she just said she "doesn't want me deciding who her friends are, we're friends big deal" and also told me she regretted dating me and that she doesn't give a crap what I think.

So basically, I'm filled with regret, even though I'm pretty sure it's not my fault. I feel myself blaming myself for not forgiving her but... .I don't feel she really tried... .I think I'm losing it, I can't believe i let myself be completely taken control of by someone. Was I right to confront her on this and deal with the consequences of being split black?

[Kelli Cornett]

Did you ever ask her why she cheated?

[C.Stein]

She ended up expecting me to forgive her, which I was trying to do, but yet remain friends with the guy.

What does she expect you to forgive her for?

[thisworld]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

Did she expect you to forgive her while you were still together and she was still befriending the guy she cheated on you with?

Or did she expect you to forgive her after you ended your relationship and this is not something you were able to do?

[TheSarcasticOne]

@thisworld - No it was after she broke up with me. She had told me that she wanted to get back with me and changed her mind. the reason she didn't want to anymore is because I couldn't completely forgive her (for cheating on me) and i kept bringing it up. But the reason I couldn't completely forgive her is because after she broke up with me, she told me multiple times she would kick him out of her life and try to get help and then she ended up not doing either of those things.

@blackandblue22 -  Yes I did ask her why she cheated. She said she was "manipulated" and that he basically convinced her that she had feelings for him but she really didn't. (yeah right) I found out from her sister she was heavily flirting with him while we were together. Technically she claims she didn't cheat but I find that incredibly hard to believe because she's lied about being raped, suicide attempts and so much more.

@cstein - I tried to forgive her cause she wanted to get back with me and wouldn't let me move on. I was stupid and tried to forgive her, and now its been a bit and shes went from begging for forgiveness to expecting me to be over it by now.

[Cassandros]

She's using the fact you've forgiven her. Maybe not even in a conscious manipulative way intentionally, but it's almost worse because she can't even understand she's doing it and it's wrong. But it's now something that's expected of you. Now that the precedent has been set, as she sees it, if you don't put up with everything that comes with it, you're doing something wrong to her, no matter what she does. This isn't planned manipulation, it's learned behavior from experience.

She's shown she can't be trusted when sleeping with someone else would have been a devastating step (a step she took anyway), why would she stop now that it's already part of the relationship that she see's you can just get over? That means it's not that big a deal to you, and fun and rewarding to her. So how will she learn to un-want that now?   

She's attracted to him and has feelings for him. She'll say she doesn't. Why wouldn't she? It's just a lie to make things easier for her, and what's wrong with that? (I mean as long as you're her) At best she's keeping him around as an option in case things don't work out with you, in that case it's still not platonic. And it'll turn into keeping him around as an option in case you're out of town, or she can just get away with it, which if you'll forgive her gets a lot easier once him being an option is just a normal part of your lives you've gotten used to. He has been and will be either your replacement or her side deal. 

Him being a part of her life after what happened isn't normal or acceptable by any sane standards. If she doesn't understand that now, she's not going to because you explained it in a rational way. That doesn't need an explanation. She no longer respects the relationship and only values it as easy and familiar. How long will that last when she's expecting you to step out of your comfort zone (and give up your self respect) and make concessions based on what works for her selfish inappropriate impulses, and is devastating for you?

She got away with it, and you're no longer a person who has different then that coming to him. She's not going to unlearn that kind of thinking without being in some kind of recovery. It's not she doesn't get what your problem with it is. It's she doesn't understand why that should matter if it didn't enough to actually end things the first time. She's wired differently, and until she gets in some kind of therapy, that's not going to change. If she can't naturally see why none of this is ok, then It's not the kind of thing you'll figure out the magic combination of words to explain, considering it's a situation this obvious if anyone has ever said it out loud.     

I wish I had more hopeful advice, but she's clearly not seeing things in a normal mind set. This isn't one bad idea she has, it's an unhealthy way of processing behavioral norms. You have door number one which is being ok with someone capable of doing things like this, or door number two which is an exit.   

On the one hand I wish someone had given me this talk a couple years ago, but I probably wouldn't have listened. Being forgiving and compassionate, trying to understand what someone with a sickness is going through, should all be good things. Not things to be used against you. If she's not making major changes to how she sees the world though, the garden variety indiscretions aren't going to stop.

[thisworld]

Thank you for your clarification SarcasticOne,

It seems that both of you are basing this issue on "forgiveness." That is, conceptwise, you are on the same page. For instance, she didn't say "What forgiveness, I'm not asking for your damn forgiveness, live with it." Now, forgiveness is something that we ask for when we wrong someone or at least the wronged party believes so and we agree. By talking about your forgiveness, she is accepting that she has wronged you.

In a healthy world, when we wrong someone, we try to do certain things to repair the wrong and the hurt. This doesn't ensure forgiveness, but we still do our part. In a healthy world of ongoing love relationships or where a future potential is discussed, we also work actively to rebuild trust. Otherwise, even if the wronged party forgives us (which is about the past), they may not trust us (which is about the future), so there may be forgiveness but no future (I forgive you but I don't want a relationship with you).

Here, expectations of the wronged party is important. What do they sincerely need so that they can trust?

Did your girlfriend ask you what you needed + what she could do so that you could feel comfortable in this relationship and trust her? What did you tell her?

What exactly did your girlfriend do afterwards? (The emphasis is on "do" here, saying things like "trust me, I promise" etc. doesn't  count. Trust was broken with action, it needs to be repaired with action).

(If you two are talking about a different kind of forgiveness, where you - only and only because of your own virtues as a human being- are expected to forgive even though the other party does nothing, I believe that it's also possible. However, that sort of forgiveness would depend solely on your inner processes (as you are left utterly on your own in this mess) and nobody can tell you to when to move on or expect it from you.)

Which situation do you think you are in?  

*By the way, we can't expect anyone to forgive it. We can only hope for it.

[TheSarcasticOne]

She didn't really ever ask what I needed. She claimed she was going to try and see a counselor and block him and stop seeing him, but I don't think she ever actually tried. I think part of the problem is she kept going back and forth on wanting to try with me again, and I kind of did the same thing. Like, I want it to go back to how it was, but then I realize it's impossible. I don't think I could even forgive her cause she doesn't even care now. She's told me she's done, she said how we could never have worked out, we were doomed to fail. She just decided that it wasn't meant to be instead of working on the issues at hand. I think she basically wanted me to deal with it and let her just not make any changes, and I was close to doing that because of how badly I felt.

[C.Stein]

She just decided that it wasn't meant to be instead of working on the issues at hand. I think she basically wanted me to deal with it and let her just not make any changes, and I was close to doing that because of how badly I felt.

My ex did the same thing to me.  Slightly different situation but same expectations and same result.   I suspect I got replaced a month or so before the end because I was taking to long to fix the problem (my shattered trust) she had created.  She never tried to fix it, never asked me what she could do to fix it, never even showed any empathy or concern for my feelings or what I was going through emotionally.  She basically sat back and watched me suffer, then when the first guy came along that made her feel good about herself again she started detaching from me and eventually discarded me.  This is apparently what love means to her ... .to abandon the person she loves when they need her the most.  It has been the most bitter of pills to swallow.

[TheSarcasticOne]

@cstein - I'm sorry  to hear that. yeah, it really does hurt. Especially since she was my first r/s. I know she's not good for me, but I still want her. How long has it been sense that happened? Are you doing any better now? Has she ever tried to contact you?

[C.Stein]

@cstein - I'm sorry  to hear that. yeah, it really does hurt. Especially since she was my first r/s. I know she's not good for me, but I still want her. How long has it been sense that happened? Are you doing any better now? Has she ever tried to contact you?

It's been roughly 4 months since the final discard.  Assuming she is in a new relationship as she claims (there is some doubt) she was "with" him within 2-3 weeks of the final discard, my best guess. 

She has never contacted me without me contacting her first, which hasn't been often, count the times on my hands.  Most of those got ignored.  Even if she wanted to contact me she will not.  Too much guilt, shame and fear of rejection will keep her silent.

If she is with a new guy then she probably doesn't even think about me anymore and if she does it is likely not good thoughts.  She cannot and will not accept blame for anything that happened.  She has shown no feelings or emotions towards me at all since the last discard and has barely even acknowledged we had a relationship at all.  It is like we never had anything together.  Two years ... .poof.  Yet I can't seem to get her out of my brain or heart.

I am struggling to be honest, but it is better than it was last month.  I'm still going through the whole gambit of emotions just less frequently.  The hurricane of thoughts and emotions has died down to a dull roar, but they are still there, sometimes spiking.  Still have wet eyes on a frequent basis, most of this week it was almost constant, like it had been for months prior.

It will eventually get better, it always does.  I have to say though, I have never been so negatively impacted by a relationship and loss in my life, at least that I can remember.  It has been a humbling and excruciatingly painful experience.

It will get better for you to.  I was filled with guilt and remorse for well over a month, still am to some extent.  Second guessing isn't going to do either one of us any good.  What we can take from it though is the opportunity to look inward,  to see where we made mistakes and how we can improve ourselves to become better partners.

[TheSarcasticOne]

I'm so happy for this site. It's been such a lifesaver to read other people's struggles. It helps to know we're not alone dealing with that. I have a feeling she won't contact me either. Hopefully it gets easier for you as time goes on. you are spot on about second guessing being pointless. It's over. And I keep having to remind myself even if she did try to get back with me, and said she loved me... .IDK if i could get over the fact she went behind my back, tried to turn some people against me and told me she regretted being with me. I mean, she has done some cruel things. I just want that original feeling of idealization back. Where I was special, it's hard for that to be gone. A connection like that seems too good to be true... .and it was.

[LArve]

Really sorry to hear your ordeal

it is NOT your fault!

If a BPD person pushes over a tree. They will blame the tree for falling over.

[C.Stein]

I do miss the idealization stage, but what I miss the most is just her.  She wasn't nearly as bad as what you see reported on this site all too frequently, but that could just be because of the circumstances of our relationship.  

Looking back I do see the potential for a lot of misery if we had lived together, but I also see the potential for a lot of joy and happiness.  It is difficult to reconcile the two because I see so much potential in her.  That said, there are some core character issues (lying for one) that overshadow all the good in her.  It is difficult to get past these when she has not demonstrated a willingness to even admit she is wrong (and believe she is) let alone do something about it.  It is heartbreaking because I thought we had so much potential for a beautiful future together.  It is difficult to let that go.

[LArve]

It is difficult to get past these when she has not demonstrated a willingness to even admit she is wrong (and believe she is) let alone do something about it.  It is heartbreaking because I thought we had so much potential for a beautiful future together.  It is difficult to let that go.

Great quote. I find it 'impossible'. How can compromise and recoceliation be achieved when the wrong doer denies responsibility, passes off blame and justifies their actions by pointing other people's mistakes. 

[TheSarcasticOne]

donaldtrumps- thanks, I'm trying to remind myself that.

cstein - hopefully both of us will find someone even better, that won't deceive us. Were any of her lies really big? Or were they just a lot of small lies that added up. It seems so surprising when they just up and leave like nothing happened. Mine didn't really do that though, but she tried.

[C.Stein]

donaldtrumps- thanks, I'm trying to remind myself that.

cstein - hopefully both of us will find someone even better, that won't deceive us. Were any of her lies really big? Or were they just a lot of small lies that added up. It seems so surprising when they just up and leave like nothing happened. Mine didn't really do that though, but she tried.

The one that started the final nail in the coffin was an approx. month long deception over the most stupid petty selfish thing that involved numerous direct lies to me in person, phone and text...  That was the one that shattered me.

She also said some things shortly after that which made the big deception seem pale in comparison.  Thing is she admitted to it on her own but she didn't think she had done anything wrong.  Now I realize she didn't admit to it because she was feeling guilty but because she wanted to do something that would have exposed the deception.  Her "admission" was as selfishly motivated as the deception.  

There were other small lies that I caught after that because I started looking for them.  Who knows how many were told before that, I'm sure there were more than a few.  Thing is, I had given her my complete trust even if at times I questioned things she told me that just didn't seem quite right.  I always ended up giving her the benefit of the doubt though and I wonder now if I should have.  Those smaller ones I don't think she even realized she was doing it ... .which is more than a little disturbing.

I went downhill pretty quickly from there.  Withdrawal, distancing, depression, PTSD, etc... .  I was even having intermittent symptoms of heart attack as a result.   She however pushed on like nothing had happened.   Nearly six months of her ignoring my emotional pain from that incident ... .then she dumped me.  

We got back together (kinda) briefly after that but I think it was more motivated out of guilt than a sincere desire to fix the damage or the relationship.  I was still withdrawn and distant because she continued to ignore my pain and made no effort to repair anything.   Once again she was pushing on like nothing had happened.  She expected me to be the one making the effort after she had dumped me just like she continued to expect me to fix the damage she had caused after the long deception.  

It is so unbelievably hard to see the person you love so much care so little for your emotional well being, especially when they are the one who damaged it.

Towards the end I just didn't care anymore what happened.  I was so emotionally numb that I couldn't see anything straight.  It took about 6 weeks after the final discard before the loss really started to impact me.  That was when my emotions and feelings started coming back.  All my emotions that had been suppressed for 8 months or more eventually came crashing back.  The loss of her and our relationship finally hit me.  It has been an uphill struggle since.

[TheSarcasticOne]

I tried contacting my ex to talk to her. I wasn't trying to get back with her, but I wanted to end off less hostile and she now feels like I'm the terrible one. So I'm pretty much starting No contact now. Nothing else to say. she split me black and no amount of talking and reasoning will help. Hopefully she just keeps me split black so I can move on now. I at least can say that I tried. Which is all I can do.

[C.Stein]

I tried contacting my ex to talk to her. I wasn't trying to get back with her, but I wanted to end off less hostile and she now feels like I'm the terrible one. So I'm pretty much starting No contact now. Nothing else to say. she split me black and no amount of talking and reasoning will help. Hopefully she just keeps me split black so I can move on now. I at least can say that I tried. Which is all I can do.

Yup.  Pretty sure I have been painted the blackest of blacks as well.  I think the shade of black depends very much on the amount of wrong she did in the relationship.  Given that, the color of paint I have been painted can't get much blacker.

Nothing else you can do now.  You have turned over the last rock and there was nothing of substance underneath it.  You can move on now, rebuild your life and eventually you will find a partner that will treat you with respect.

Life is nothing more than a series of lessons, some more painful than others. We both need to learn from this lesson.