Question about couples counseling

[HurtinNW]

I've read here that couples therapy generally isn't helpful when one partner has BPD or NPD.

My partner is currently trying hard. He's in a therapy group. He is thinking we should try couples therapy again. Particularly he wants to try EFT (Emotionally Focused Therapy).

We have tried couples counseling in the past and it was a fiasco. I didn't realize what he was doing at the time, but pretty much he spent every single entire session painting me black. I would leave feeling like someone had gutted me. We went through two counselors this way. He is pretty persuasive and I ended feeling blamed for everything!

I like the idea of EFT and think the empathy-building part might be good for him. But I am afraid the couples counseling will go right down the same road as before: a platform for painting me black.

My partner is not diagnosed. He admits to narcissism, depression and anger issues. His behaviors fit BPD/NPD and personality disorders are rampant in his family. I'd say he is on the higher functioning end of the spectrum. He does have a conscience and tries hard. He is aware he has problems and wants to get better. But when given an audience his symptoms get worse, not better!

Any advice? I've thought about trying the counselor but finding a way to set a boundary in therapy.

Thanks!

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[Ceruleanblue]

My BPDh was in DBT, and they didn't want him in any other T at the time. Prior to that, we had done MC, and just like you, it was horrendous. I left there feeling awful, we got little out of it, and I believe he triangulated the therapist. Plus, I felt the T had a strong make bias. I liked him, but I felt he didn't give enough credence to the fact that BPDh admitted to huge anger issues, there was clearly a past of domestic abuse, and BPDh liked to paint me black in therapy.

I felt a lot of this should have been picked up on, but wasn't. Also, because of BPDh BPD/NPD(I suspect APD), it was easier for the T to work on ME, because I was the only one willing to work on themselves. This felt very unfair.

If we go back into MC, it will be with MY personal therapist, who knows the issues, and I don't slant things in my favor, nor do I lie. She knows I want the marriage to work, but she doesn't know what I'm getting out of it, nor why I stay. I know she'll try to help us though, and I'm hoping he can't triangulate her. She says she can help us learn to communicate. Meaning help BPDh to communicate, because I can communicate, but maybe I can learn some ways where he'll actually listen, and not tune me out.

I definitely think this will be our last shot at MC, unless he completes his DBT therapy, which he's not currently going to. I think MC is best when neither is in denial, and both are willing to own their actions, and work on them. In the past, I was doing that solo. The only way I can see that changing is if BPDh gets healthier in DBT, or really tries to apply himself in MC this time. I doubt he will though, short of DBT helping, because his default is to always blame, instead of thinking what HE can do to make things better.

MC can help, but when BPD, or any PD is in the mix, it makes it so much less likely. MC is hard with normal couples, so imagine going in with a huge handicap... .

[HurtinNW]

The only way I can see that changing is if BPDh gets healthier in DBT, or really tries to apply himself in MC this time. I doubt he will though, short of DBT helping, because his default is to always blame, instead of thinking what HE can do to make things better.

MC can help, but when BPD, or any PD is in the mix, it makes it so much less likely. MC is hard with normal couples, so imagine going in with a huge handicap... .

Thanks for the feedback! The thing with my partner is when he is in a good place—regulated, calm, feeling supported—he is capable of admitting he has challenges. He admits to anger problems, etc. But that can quickly disappear and he goes into blame mode. It makes me wonder how deep his regret really goes. I do think he is sincere when he wants to change. But he is also sincere when he paints me black. It is very confusing and difficult.

I've observed it is super important to him that people, especially professionals, think well of him. So part of it is he has to convince the therapist I am the crazy one, and he is the poor victim. The mere fact the therapist is a professional is a hurdle for us in counseling. He puts great importance on having people think well of him. One time his sister commented to me, "X cares about what people think about him, not how they feel." That is actually more true in therapy than anyplace else!

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

We went to couples counseling as well... .we didn't get much out of it.  My w would talk 90% of the time and reject anything the T said that she didn't like.

"Some people aren't very readable, if you want to know what he's thinking you'll have to ask".  Seems pretty basic to me, but we still argue about it years later.  I smile when my 4yo nephew comes to visit (once a month or so) but I don't smile the same way every time I come home from work.  It's "obvious" I'm just not happy with my wife... .

Lately she's said she'd like to see a counselor, but only if it's a minister... .After the last time I can tell she just wants someone to tell me I'm wrong, not how the two of us can work things out together (my favorite is when she threatens to "tell on me" to people at church... ."would you read the Game of Thrones out loud during Sunday Service?  No, but I wouldn't read the Song of Songs out loud either... ."

[Sunfl0wer]

"X cares about what people think about him, not how they feel." That is actually more true in therapy than anyplace else!

This describes my ex perfectly. 

When we began couples counseling I explained to MC that BF was now 'acting on his best behavior' to impress MC.  I think MC saw an advantage to this... .and there was an advantage to this somewhat.  It was nice for BF to be on his best behavior. 

He especially tried to make me happy and appear to be attempting to resolve things the day before therapy sessions. (I always hoped what he was doing for extrinsic motivational reasons would turn into lifelong habits and intrinsically motivated.  Yet... .I just don't have faith he will ever be intrinsically motivated in a r/s... .vs narcissistic supply)  He would tho get shocked and pissed when MC asked me how the week went... .that I actually DID describe the week... .not just my current positive feelings and what occurred the day before.

Because of BF tendency to want to appear the 'all good child' in therapy... .this helped bring the relationship from a place of instability and taking a nose dive... .to something more 'in progress.'

As months passed, BF found ways to be avoidant.  If he knew there was a topic to be addressed in MC that he did not want to face... .he'd pick a fight with me and provoke me.  He then spent the session lamenting over me, and my bad behavior.  If MC suggested actions for BF to take, he'd come home and try to accuse me of not doing what the MC suggested of him.  (Ex: MC wanted him to spend time with my son.  BF looked for opportunities to blame me for neglecting his daughter... .and picked fights with me over it.)

MC accurately told us that we did not have to make a decision about the r/s for a while.  He pretty much guaranteed us that within a years time of participating in therapy, whether to stay or part would become clear to us.  This is true.  The mask fell off, BF raged and painted me black.  Idk what grip of 'reality' the MC had on things... .but that didn't matter so much as the r/s was moving quickly and deteriorating and there was little myself, or MC could do to slow it down.

MC counseled me in a solo session that the only way to address BF behaviors is to have none of my own... .so there was no way BF could play the blame game.  I did this... .and was amazed at myself.  BF became very undone as he was 'forced' to confront himself without dealing with any Sunflower issues.  He started making up things, became delusional... .provoked insidious things I had to protect myself from and then accused me of 'violence' when I was protecting myself.  (I snatched his phone from him as it was causing him to drive erratic and off the road.)

Anyway... .

There was a lot that I did learn during that time.  I am grateful for having another set of eyes and someone to bounce things off of.  Therapy got to be couples counseling, then us alternating solos.  I think had it only been couples work without the solos, I'd have been way more discouraged at it being used to vent at me.  I learned some helpful tools and am grateful that even though the relationship was headed south, that I had support and ears of MC.  I don't regret MC... .but I don't think it was helpful at 'saving' our relationship... .I think MC had no control over that and likely knew this from the onset.  Maybe his role was just to facilitate some progression of our lives... .because this it did do.