Hello SummerStorm,
I began reading your thread and my ‘combat indicator’ (red flag intuition) started to go into overdrive at the part when you described your friendship, after a very brief sexual encounter, had your friend declaring that you were the one ... and that she wanted to marry you. Now, putting the recognisable stages of idealisation, devaluation and discard aside for a moment ... at that point I would be considering that a decision to spend the rest of my life with someone I had known only for a matter of months (you say 6 months) is somewhat premature.
I knew her longer than that. We were best friends from around January or so to June. Obviously, even a friendship with a pwBPD doesn't just develop into best friends after a few days. That being said, I do understand what you are saying.
You said you texted her to tell her that you were going to the cinema on Monday morning (a definitive statement ... it implies, ‘I AM going on MONDAY’. She replied saying that your plan to do that sounded like fun and that she wanted to see the new Star Wars movie ... you agreed that you wanted to see it too (agreement). However, instead of being direct and asking her to go with you on Monday ... you sent two unrelated texts which she ignored ... perhaps, because she felt that she had given you a clear green light to ask her to go with you ... which you missed. Later you asked her if she ‘would be able to see the movie’ ... to which she replied, ‘I really want to’ ... again a clear green light for you to ask.
Some background is needed here, I think. I was going to see
Mockingjay on Monday, a movie that she has zero interest in. Also, she works night shift and would have been sleeping at the time I went. I asked if she would be able to see
Star Wars because she works so much. She works nights, comes home and is awake for a few hours, sleeps, and then gets up and goes to work. And she tends to work on the weekends, whereas I have off.
I still don't see this as a green light because she hates going to the movies. She's told me that many times and recently told her mom that, as well. The one time we did go was a huge disaster. She talked, played on her phone, got up to go to the bathroom, and took a nap. I see it more as she knows I like
Star Wars and wanted to talk about something I like. She did this all the time when we were friends. She would get all excited about something that I like, but as soon as I would ask her to go somewhere with me, she said she already had plans or we would make plans and she would cancel them. We saw the trailer for
Age of Adaline, and she said it looked like it would be awful and that she'd never want to see it. When I told her I was going to go see it, she suddenly wanted to go. We made plans to see it on a Saturday, and she canceled.
Men should not be afraid to ask (modern societal edicts and the insistence that men get in touch with their inner femininity is slowly and painfully castrating young men from an early age) ... STOP IT … go ahead and ask with the expectation that she will say ‘yes’... and don't be afraid if you get a 'No' ... be grateful for the 'No's' ... a 'No' saves you a great deal of time and emotional effort.
Ummm... .I'm 100% a woman, born and raised.
You now feel that you don’t want to ask, for fear of appearing clingy, but neither do you want to give her the impression that you don’t want to spend time with her ... and like a rabbit in the glare of headlights ... you’re stuck ... but stuck in a state of confusion that you have created yourself. Wanting to spend time with someone is not being ‘clingy’ ... where did you get that idea from?
I was once told I was "clingy" for texting her and asking her how she was a few days after she got out of the hospital, so I've been called that for much less than wanting to spend time with her.
Unfortunately, instead of telling her what you want (which is to go to the cinema and spend time with her ... on Monday) you leave her text hanging ... showing her indifference ... so, what is she to do? She texts back with unrelated things to give you another chance to ask her and you leave it two hours to respond ... sending a resounding message to her that she isn’t very high on your list of priorities (which is complete BS because she is ... isn’t she?). Then you try to reconnect with what you consider to be a ‘random’ text and she ignored you (can you spot the push/pull?) because you haven't been direct and asked her to go. Then ... a further text to tell her about your plans to go to a local restaurant ... with a reply from her ... ‘I wanna go’ ... which you then took away from her because you were going with your parents ... one of which doesn’t like her ... (does she know she isn’t liked?). And, if I might add here, why isn’t she liked ... for something she has done or because of something you have said which may have coloured someone's opinion of her?
Again, I had no intention of going with her on Monday. I sent that text when she was at work and knew she probably wouldn't read it and reply until after 10 at night, after I'd gone to bed, and I was going to the movies at 10:30 the next morning. And like I said, she hates going to the movies, so there is nothing from our past that would indicate that she would want to go with me.
I took two hours to respond because I was with my mom. I read it because, since her suicide attempt in June, I periodically check my phone, in case there is an emergency, but thought it would be rude to sit there and text someone when I was with her. The text she sent me was, "Why do you go to bed so early?" Not exactly something that needed to be answered right away. On the day I settled on my house, I didn't get a reply from her for eight hours, so I think I am justified in not responding to every text from her right away, especially when I'm with family.
I didn't "take away" going to the restaurant with her. I was just teasing her that I was going. Again, to the best of my knowledge, she was sleeping and would be going to work later.
She knows very well that she isn't liked. My mom and I got into a fight about her while she was in the bathroom, and she asked me about it. My mom forbid her to stay over at my parents' house (I was still living there at the time) ever again. When she pretended to be her boyfriend and sent me nasty, threatening texts over Memorial Day weekend, my mom was very upset and afraid that he would come to the house and confront me. I later told her how upset my mom was. And then, of course, she went to look at a house with my dad and I and told the Realtor that she would be living with me, only to take it back a few days later. This, in addition to the fact that whenever she was at my house, she basically ignored my dad completely and only gave my mom one-word responses.
My parents met her several times, so this has nothing to do with what I told them.
After all this you then say, ‘if’ you were to go to the cinema sometime ... would she accompany you? To which she replies, ‘Sure’ (which means ‘yes’) ... but you take to mean a lack of enthusiasm and respond with an ‘OK, we’ll have to talk about arranging a time’ ... she might feel a lack of enthusiasm from you here and is resigned to the idea that you might lack some courage.
Again, arranging a time would be difficult. Our work/sleep schedules are directly opposite each other.
Since June, I've done nothing but tell her how much I want to see her again. I tried to arrange several things with her and gave her specific days (I was off work for the summer, and she was jobless, so we were both completely free), and they all went ignored.
In the past year, she's canceled more plans with me than she's kept, so I'm sure you can understand my hesitancy here.
Can you see why she might be confused? She keeps saying ‘yes’ but you’re not getting it ... ! What you are doing is trying to avoid a ‘NO’ and all the while, because you are doing this ... you’re getting closer to an absolute ‘NO’ ... that you don't want because she might feel you’re jerking her around by not being direct. You are driving yourself ‘nuts’ and probably her too ... and then when she drops you from a great height you will then advocate that she is unreasonable and that you are the victim of a crazy maker who has BPD ... when that might very well not be the case.
I don't think she's really saying "yes." Sorry. We've only just recently been in contact again after six months of what was mostly NC started by her.
As I have explained above ... it isn’t my place to label people with disorders and I would steer people away from making judgements too soon and without fully taking responsibility for one’s own part in a romantic dance ... and communication style.
I am not saying I'm perfect, and I've made mistakes along the way. That being said, she has been formally diagnosed with BPD and meets all 9 criteria.
She physically abused her ex-boyfriend and admitted to me once that she hit him and gave him a bloody lip just because he called her a name. She pretended to be him and then kept up that lie for over two weeks. She blamed me for being the reason why we would never be together, because I had gotten her in trouble, when she hadn't gotten in trouble at all.
This is all in addition to the fact that she came to work (as a teacher) high, tells her mom that she's ready for her to die, painted her dad black in May and changed her phone number so he couldn't contact her, and has a history of unstable relationships and friendships.
If you don’t mind me saying ... you say she is setting herself up for disappointment when, perhaps, it is you that is contributing to potential disappointment for yourself.
This is how she tries to make plans with most people, just asking on a whim. Once, at 1:30 in the morning, she asked people on Facebook to visit her at work.
Consider that you just give her a call ... ask her to go to the cinema ... pick her up and have a good time ... she’s shown her willingness to spend time with you on a number of occasions now ... you might just want to accept that she really does like you ... and wants you to take the lead ... girls like being led ... it makes them feel safe ... but take it slow ... marriage is serious business and divorce is seriously costly to both partners when it all falls apart ... and bringing children into less than solid foundations can cause all kinds of emotional damage ... most of which is shouldered by the children who can often adopt the same dysfunctional model of relationships.
Good luck ... I wish you well.
She never answered my calls when we were friends and hates talking on the phone, so that's out.
She also has a new boyfriend, and I'm thinking that's 85% of the reason why she hasn't been replying to me. When she is in a relationship, she pretty much ignores all of her friends.
I have absolutely no desire to date her. We both put an end to that in June. There was a very clear cut agreement about that. When she broke up with her ex in August, she was back on Tinder that same day and went to a bar with a guy a few days later. She dated another guy for a few weeks at the end of September and then started dating another guy a few days after she broke up with him. When she broke up with that guy in November, she was on Tinder a few hours later.
Unfortunately, in the past six months, she hasn't shown any real willingness to spend time with me or even be friends with me. I'm still blocked on Facebook, and when we were friends, I sent her a follow request on Instagram and was denied. And really, she canceled the first plans we ever made, back in February, and then lied about why she was canceling.
My first post obviously only provided a very small snapshot of the past year. It's been filled many lies from her, canceled plans, ridiculous amounts of push/pull, and lots of ST. I've also been called every name in the book, from "psychotic" to "c__t." I've been told that my feelings don't matter and that no one will ever love me. I've been told that she can't remember my birthday because her head is filled with too much information, like "what color a giraffe's tongue is."
Since our first re-connection back in August, she hasn't once asked me how I've been, how work is, how my new house is, or how my parents are. I've asked her all of those things. She went from telling me never to contact her again to asking me three weeks later if I had a room for rent. I agree that my communication skills may need some work, but I would never just randomly ask someone I had cut out of my life for two months if I could live with him or her.
