Financial boundaries, diagnosis at 24

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hi there

I'm not going into the very long saga of how we've got here at the moment but, needless to say, our story isn't much different than most of the others in this forum.

I'm not sure how to abbreviate correctly on here, apologies.

Our son 24 has been diagnosed this week and is in a state of what can only be described as enlightenment and is very eager to start his treatment. He was in crisis and went to hospital on Sunday and he finally got the professional help he needed.

Here's our problem.

He is living in the US but only moved to a new town 10 days ago. He has a rented room in a safe environment very close to downtown and near his treatment centre. We have paid his deposit, first month rent and food money. He is in the process of sorting out how his treatment will be paid - hopefully on medical. We currently speak every day.

We live in the UK. We can't afford to maintain this level of financial support in the longer term. Also we aren't doing him any favours. He needs to be financially independent but realistically this isn't going to be easy as he hasn't worked full time for 5 years. "Job" is a trigger word!

I'd be grateful to know of how others have set financial boundaries or experiences.

Our sBPD24 (abbreviation correct?) wants to remain where he is and get well. We know he needs our support but it's getting the level right for all of us.

He's been told he needs to look for a job, he says he knows. Call me a cynic but I just can't see it happening.

Thanks for reading

Lollypop

[Lollypop]

Hi there

I'm not going into the very long saga of how we've got here at the moment but, needless to say, our story isn't much different than most of the others in this forum.

I'm not sure how to abbreviate correctly on here, apologies.

Our son 24 has been diagnosed this week and is in a state of what can only be described as enlightenment and is very eager to start his treatment. He was in crisis and went to hospital on Sunday and he finally got the professional help he needed.

Here's our problem.

He is living in the US but only moved to a new town 10 days ago. He has a rented room in a safe environment very close to downtown and near his treatment centre. We have paid his deposit, first month rent and food money. He is in the process of sorting out how his treatment will be paid - hopefully on medical. We currently speak every day.

We live in the UK. We can't afford to maintain this level of financial support in the longer term. Also we aren't doing him any favours. He needs to be financially independent but realistically this isn't going to be easy as he hasn't worked full time for 5 years. "Job" is a trigger word!

I'd be grateful to know of how others have set financial boundaries or experiences.

Our sBPD24 (abbreviation correct?) wants to remain where he is and get well. We know he needs our support but it's getting the level right for all of us.

He's been told he needs to look for a job, he says he knows. Call me a cynic but I just can't see it happening.

Thanks for reading

Lollypop

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hi Lollipop,

Welcome to the Parenting Board.

I'm sorry to learn that your son is suffering and glad that he wants help.  The financial aspects of this are troubling for all concerned.  It  may take a while for him to learn and put into practice the coping skills he will need to hold down a job, even part time. 

Do you know what kind of therapy he is seeking out and if the insurance will cover the costs?  There are financial aid possibilities for him like food stamps, housing allowances for the disabled, and unemployment if he qualifies (and if he cannot work).

lbj

[Lollypop]

Thanks for replying Lbj

He's starting dialectical therapy on Tuesday. Individual and group sessions. This needs paying for until MediCal is processed which takes about 5 weeks.

He's always worked casually apart from a spell when he managed to hold down a job for about 18 months. But all his money was spent on drugs. He hasn't the capability of paying a bill.

I think he'll find work but am expecting problems with the money side of his living.

[lbjnltx]

DBT is good and I hope that he sticks with it until the benefits come to pass. 

What kind of boundaries are you wanting to set regarding financial assistance Lollipop?

lbj

[Lollypop]

Well he's rubbish at cash handling, particularly with larger sums. We both feel strongly that for him to learn he needs to experience. We understand that he may not get it right so we would need to step in and help him out. But I don't think it's going to work.

I'll give you an example.

He moves in on 27 sept. I give him the deposit and first months rent. He gives it to his new landlady but she takes the deposit and enough to cover 27th to 31st and says pay me the full month $500 on 1 October. She doesn't know his cash handling problem and he doesn't say.

He then spends some of the money and doesn't have it on the 1st. He feels bad and we have to transfer another $500 on the 1st.  by this time he's found a DBT therapist and organises a consultation. I told him we would pay his rent and food money until the 31st October but would need to find a job to help contribute particularly towards any treatment he may need to pay for while he waits for Nedical to come through. He said he was going to try and get them to agree to see him while his Medical is processed.

I ask him if he's paid her a couple of days later. He explains that he's only given her $400 because he thought he may need some to pay for his consultation which he did need to do. By the way He's very anxious to start his treatment and it's foremost in his mind. So he gives her $400 and tells her he needs to get the money out of his other bank account as he has some in there (this is true).

He says to me I'm  going to work for her tomorrow and she can just knock it off what I owe her. I explain to him that it doesn't work that way. His landlady expects full payment on the 1st day of the month and she may have bills to pay and so not want to enter into this sort of arrangement. She may be thinking of paying him for the work the following week. I told him to ask her what she'd like to do and we spoke and he said I need the money today to give to her. So I do another transfer. I know he's withdrawn the money but don't know if he's given it to her yet.

So in 9 days I have paid two months rent and a bit more. It sounds completely ridiculous as I write this. I'm expecting some teething problems while he gets this right but I know we need to be firm in our expectations. However he has only been there 2 weeks and in that time has had a complete meltdown, diagnosis and two visits to meet with mental health specialists. It's such early days and he's delicate and completely friendless. But we can't afford for him to mess up the money if he really wants to stay in the USA.

Advice much needed.

Thanks

L

[lbjnltx]

Direct pay would address mismanagement of rents at least until he proves himself capable of managing money.

As he progresses you might move to a monthly allowance and allow him to suffer the consequences and enjoy the benefits of his own decisions.  Slowly withdrawing financial support as he progresses to holding down a job and managing his funds is also advisable.

It's a matter of priorities and financial ability for all involved.

lbj

[jellibeans]

Dear Lollypop

I wanted to welcome you here and know you will get support from this group. Your story is interesting and I am glad he is getting a seeking help. Lollypop do you believe your son when he has all these stories of where the money went? You mentioned he had a drug problem and My DD also has a drug problem. When you know how the addict thinks and what they are capable of then I tend to not believe much that person says and add the BPD then they are already prone to lying. I just wanted to know what kind of help has he gotten for his addiction issues? I would not supply him with any money at all. I think it is great you are helping him but he does need to take part in his recovery and his treatment. Can I ask you where he was living before all this? I am glad you have found some support. Your question is something I ask myself daily and it is not an easy road to travel.

[Lollypop]

Hi jellybean and Lbj

I don't believe it when he says he doesn't know where the money has gone.

I feel out of control at this moment and it's just horrible.

We have been on a very long journey and I got a lot of help from families anonymous and changed my own behaviour. Our lives have really improved and we finally got to the point in March this year where we finally understood he had to leave. We were at the end of our road with him and manoeuvred him out of the house. He left our home in the UK at the beginning of May and chose to go to California.

He's been travelling around and avoiding the reality that he needed to find work. He has dual citizenship and can legally work. It's been frustrating to watch but we have been blissfully happy since he left.

Anyway, he chose to move to a small city in CA and was like a rabbit in headlights. We said we would help him get set up there and it was made clear he would need to get a job. He can only manage one task at a time and I broke it down. Room to rent, bank account, CA ID, job. We said we'd pay everything for one month.

Two days after moving in he hit a wall and bought some Xanax but he says it didn't work. His anxiety got worse and we went to hospital the following day. He finally got a diagnosis of BPD.

He's asked for me to call him each day which I've been doing. Yesterday was a heavy phone call and I made it clear I was expecting him to make an appointment at the DMV and go into the employment office. The call ended ok with him saying speak to you tomorrow but I could tell he wasn't happy.

I called him today but he's not answering his phone. I can't tell you how angry I am. With him and at myself for allowing my old behaviours to emerge. For having a small glimmer of hope when he's such a liar. His treatment starts tomorrow.

I could hope that he didn't answer because he wants to get these things sorted before speaking. I guess it's all I've got. He has to find work because he's currently costing more than we can afford. We have our own lives to live.

If we gave him no money I wonder what he'd do. What did yours do?

L

[jellibeans]

Lollypop

I wish I had some answers for you... .my problem is like yours but every situation has it's differences.

Here is what I know... .until you make their life pretty uncomfortable they will never stand on their own two feet. The more you enable the more crippled they become. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you to have your son so far away from you but at the same time I know the joy you are experiencing with his absense from your home. They can be very destructive and the damage that is left behind is hard to repair so take care of yourself first. It is amazing what they are truly capable of once given the opportunity so don't make your decisions based on fear. I think you already know what you need to do. Set some boundaries and stick to them. You can do it.

[Lollypop]

You're absolutely right Jellibean.

I'll sit tight and wait to hear back from him. Meantime come up with some acceptable boundaries for us.

Thanks for your support.

L

[Thursday]

Hi Lolly-

I'd be grateful to know of how others have set financial boundaries or experiences.

This for us was a gradual process but was expedited when we learned that my BPDSD24 was an addict (her drug of choice was Xanax).

Then we finally cut her off with real intention -we continued to pay for her stay at a sober house (where she learned, concretely, how to manage her own life- eg. job hunting, dressing for interviews, cooking, cleaning, caring for her clothing, managing relationships with roommates and much more) so long as she maintained her sobriety. We paid for her health insurance and also paid for her cell phone for about two years after we quit funding her in other ways... .and we paid her car insurance as well. Currently we do not pay any of her bills except for health insurance. Health insurance ends for her in a year as this comes through my husband's work and she will be cut off at 25. She has a good job now and can afford what she needs. She has been put on notice that she will need to find herself health insurance. She enjoys going to the emergency room too much to give up having health insurance... .

You probably wonder what the withdrawal of funding looks like- during her stay at sober house all of her needs were taken care of- food, clothing, laundry. She was occasionally given money by others for gas if she agreed to them to AA meetings in her car. We no longer gave her any money for cigarettes or fast food or eating out in any way.

For awhile she bummed cigarettes and went along to restaurants and ate off of other's plates or they paid for her. Quickly, those she was around got tired of the mooching. So, she got a job. She lost the first few jobs from showing up late or oversleeping and being a "no show" at work. She moved out of sober living as soon as we quit paying for it (we gave her this for a year)  and she moved in with some older friends (rent free) who kicked her out when she got in a fight with one of their children in their home.

Then she moved into an apartment as a roommate and paid rent for a while until she lost another job and as they had a contract for each roommate needing to be employed... .from there she moved in with a family member. The family member does not charge her rent. (we have no control over this) But she was mooching and mooching the family member for cigarette and gas money until they realized that she would continue to do so until she was cut off and they stopped with their handouts. Then she began mooching from the family member's friends until they got sick of it. She used to act very innocent and incapable of helping herself to anyone who would offer her kindness... .and a lot of people have fallen for this over the years.

I am only guessing here but I believe the first time she had to do a day without smokes she finally got serious about looking for a job and she has now been at this same job for almost two years. The job and the positive opinions of her as expressed by her employers have helped her along with her sobriety and the positive experience she gets from staying sober- lots of uplifting encouragement and strokes from folks in her 12 step program.

She also recently bought a new car and needs the job to keep the car. She doesn't want to have to drive a shabby car so this has helped her stay focused. Her personal paradigms are not the same as mine (I drive an old clunker!) but that is her business... .and I am really proud of her for all she has accomplished. Her employers really seem to like her and she feeds off of that as well.

The family member with whom she lives enjoys having her around and this arrangement really works well for both of them. I try not to borrow trouble by worrying about this- it would be easy to worry about what ifs... .what if she makes this family member mad, what if the family member died... .but so far so good and when/if the time comes that she needs to get a place of her own she will figure it out on her own... .we are always willing to advise her but she only comes to us when she has heard from her 12 step sponsor, a few other older friends and confidants because her Dad (my husband) can be quite the nagging father and she doesn't appreciate his nagging.

If we had continued giving her money it is doubtful that she would have maintained her sobriety once she moved out of the sober house. She would not have had the experience of burning through everyone who might give her money... .she would not have seen how angry people get when one doesn't seem to be putting forth effort. She doesn't like it when people are mad at her!

She probably would not have kept this very good paying job for as long as she has if she didn't have the fancy car to pay for... .I can only imagine how awful her life would have gotten had we purchased another car for her when she ruined the one she had. We very much have the experience with her that she has to find her "bottom" to accomplish better things.

She has begun to change in other ways too. She now seems to be finding personal insight into how she damaged relationships in the past. 12 steps is very important for her.

She is doing so well these days. I actually like her again!

Thursday

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Wow Thursday... .what a journey! Thank you for posting. It gives me hope for my dd. We are struggling big time right now and it is hard to be hopeful. How did you keep hopeful?

[Lollypop]

Oh Thursday, I'm sorry I missed this post back in October as I stopped logging on for a while.

Your story is just amazing and gives me hope. Your d's characteristics are very similar to my BPDs. He came back home early Dec and it's been challenging but his trust has built up as he's experienced our considerable change in behaviour.

He came back home 5 weeks ago. He's living here rent free and he's fed. So this is what happened:

Week 1 - settling in and enjoying being back

Week 2 - uni friends arrive home for Xmas and still "up"

Xmas eve - asked for £5 unspent family Xmas money. I gave him £10 and told him that was the last time and not to ask again

Xmas Day - black mood for 6 days (it was awful)

New Year's Eve - he traded cigarillos for weed

3 Jan - reminded him of the one boundary "job or benefits"

4 Jan - looked for jobs

5 Jan - bad mood

6 Jan - took him to emergency to try and get a referral (success!) but he was very angry as he heard me speak and say we can't cope with him at home and he needs to live somewhere else

7 Jan - looked for job

8 Jan - applied for job

11 Jan - applied for job

13 Jan - got interview 25 Jan

So he's now nervous. He's scared of working legitimately as he'll need to follow rules, he'll need a bank account etc. Meanwhile he met up with s school friend who is putting a good work for him for a labouring job that pays cash.

This situation is s massive improvement and actually was very easy on our part. Just say NO.

Obviously we'd prefer him to get the part time job so he can work legitimately. He'll need a bank account and he'd be forced to work in s professional way with structured rules. However, we know if he gets the chance of full time casual work paying cash he'll do that instead.

He wants to get some money together and get himself back to California. To be perfectly honest, and I'm a little ashamed to say it, I really don't care just as long as he leaves our home. The old me would try and talk to him but I know that doesn't work. Besides these are decisions he must make for himself.

We will stick to our guns - no job or benefits then he must move out. I haven't thought about what the next step should be if he gets a job.

Also he had the opportunity of some form of treatment. Again, who knows if he'll take that offer up.

I try and take each day as it comes.

I take heart from your story. It is possible to get this situation turned around,


Lollypop

[wendydarling]

Hi Lollipop

I hope your son succeeds with the clear boundaries you have set. Job, benefit - keeping it very simple is good.

Since the age of 17 I have provided a Christmas and birthday present as DD had a Saturday and then holiday jobs, a part time job during university and has been working since then and paying off her £10k university fees. Once the fees are paid off she will share the household bills with me if she is still living at home.  At that point I hope she will be well enough to want independent living. She knows I don't have the finances to support her forever and she has acknowledged that from a very young age.

I wonder if the penny has dropped with your son?

Hang in there and keep on track. WDx

[Lollypop]

Hi wendydarling

He understands we won't give him any cash or buy him things. I can't explain it very well but will try. If he could live with us with free rent and food forever he would, even if he knew we couldn't afford it. He would do this despite knowing that it wasn't right for him; that really he should be living on his own. I see his behaviour as all about fear. He's very scared of growing up. This sounds so silly as I write it.

He's starting to experience the consequences of his behaviour but hasn't worked it out all out yet.

He's stuck while his friends are moving on. Take last night. We came home about 10pm and he was in his room like a petulant child. His bottom lip out. I said "oh, you're in, you got no plans then this evening?". He says "who with? I've no friends, none. I obviously am not out tonight because I have no friends. I had no friends in the US and I came back to no friends". He was feeling very sorry for himself and very lonely.

It's like he's 15 not 25.

I thought about speaking to him, help him get some perspective, help him see that once he's working things will be different, better. But I'm reluctant as when he's in a mood he's not listening.

Its such a shame. I do feel for him but it's hard to have sympathy with somebody who doesn't help himself. Also, he really isn't easy to be around.

[wendydarling]

Hi Lollipop

Thanks, you have explained it very well - it's all very real; fear, scared of growing up, taking on responsibility ... .and lonely. Stuck and vocalising his unhappiness about it. There is certainly no use talking when no one is listening! Will you re-visit the conversation when the mood has lifted?  I did not find it easy, but I made a point of re-visiting issues raised by daughter during her moods, acknowledging it was not a good time to discuss at the time, but that now is! That may sound like enabling behaviour to some - for me it was about agreeing clear boundaries, responsibilities and keeping open communication.

I'm a single parent with one child - better late than never, she has accepted my life is not her life, and her life is her journey and it's not as frightening as she thought, to ask for help from anyone, lastly me

[wendydarling]

Somehow I sent the message before finishing, never mind.

I hope you have a great week ahead. I'm heading north to Edinburgh for 3 days (work) and then visiting my Mum (90 yrs) en route to London, Friday eve for 24 hours.

WDx

[Kate4queen]

With our son we literally worked out what we were prepared to do for him financially and told him in an email (I also mailed a copy to him just so he couldn't say he didn't know)

We gave him x amount of money for one year and then in year two we gradually decreased the amount of money we gave him until there was nothing.

We handed his car over to him on the understanding that looking after it and insuring it was his problem.

We let his brother let him stay at the apartment we pay for. That arrangement will finish in just over a year if younger son goes to college. If he prefers to stick it out with his brother, then we will no longer pay the rent and it will be up to them.

The first six months my BPD son raged and screamed and texted us all the time and we just kept saying No, No. He had to work out how to pay his bills, fix his car without us handing him cash. He had to stop abusing medication and smoking weed if he wanted to eat.

Guess what? he did it. He apparently is working 2-3 jobs now and never goes overdrawn-I can still see his bank account if I want to. He's also stopped asking for money as we are apparently 'dead to him' now. Which is okay.

So work out what you can afford, put it in writing and stick to it. Its hard but it really does work. You have to make him care about what happens to him more than you do.