Attend or not attend?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Well, we just found out that BPDh's family is throwing him a surprise bday party. They'd told us it was going to be a Super Bowl party, but now his Dad told him it's also a bday party for BPDh. His bday was a month ago?

Now, normally I'd go, and all would be fine. As some of you know though, BPDh just terribly dysregulated on my bday, and for two days after. Just about the worst three days of our marriage, other than right before he walked out last year. I dealt with it all much better than I did last year, but it still was awful.

Plus, my SIL dropped daily contact with me a month ago, and even though I made tons of attempts to figure out why, she won't take my calls. She's done this once before. How do you talk things out, or find out why someone is upset, if they fail to communicate? The party is at HER house.

So, here are two reasons I don't want to attend, but I'll look like a dork if I don't, plus BPDh "apologized" for "ruining my bday"(too mild a term for the hell he unleashed those days), and he said he "expects me to go". It's funny how his family doesn't know I even had a birthday last weekend, and my daughter had one the week before. I like his family, but every year they'd throw his ex a bday party, but I'm clearly not treated the same.

I don't want to attend, but I don't want to be holding a grudge either(but I am still hurt). What would be a healthy thing to do in this situation?

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, we just found out that BPDh's family is throwing him a surprise bday party. They'd told us it was going to be a Super Bowl party, but now his Dad told him it's also a bday party for BPDh. His bday was a month ago?

Now, normally I'd go, and all would be fine. As some of you know though, BPDh just terribly dysregulated on my bday, and for two days after. Just about the worst three days of our marriage, other than right before he walked out last year. I dealt with it all much better than I did last year, but it still was awful.

Plus, my SIL dropped daily contact with me a month ago, and even though I made tons of attempts to figure out why, she won't take my calls. She's done this once before. How do you talk things out, or find out why someone is upset, if they fail to communicate? The party is at HER house.

So, here are two reasons I don't want to attend, but I'll look like a dork if I don't, plus BPDh "apologized" for "ruining my bday"(too mild a term for the hell he unleashed those days), and he said he "expects me to go". It's funny how his family doesn't know I even had a birthday last weekend, and my daughter had one the week before. I like his family, but every year they'd throw his ex a bday party, but I'm clearly not treated the same.

I don't want to attend, but I don't want to be holding a grudge either(but I am still hurt). What would be a healthy thing to do in this situation?

[Cat Familiar]

Well, I'm a proponent of "healthy selfish." If I don't want to do something, I don't and let the chips fall where they may. I didn't attend the destination wedding of my husband's nephew and I'm not going to a college graduation of another nephew in a different state. Everybody is welcome to think whatever they want about me. I've got responsibilities here and I do what I please. If I do attend some function, everyone knows it's because I want to be there.

[Suzn]

my SIL dropped daily contact with me a month ago, and even though I made tons of attempts to figure out why, she won't take my calls. She's done this once before. How do you talk things out, or find out why someone is upset, if they fail to communicate? The party is at HER house.

It sounds like your SIL has set a boundary here. As hard as it is, when someone refuses to talk things out it may be good to respect that they need a little space. This "party" may be an opportunity to open the lines of communication. Not pushing her on "what's wrong" and instead simply be cordial at the party and see how it goes? She may be as nervous or uncomfortable as you seem to be. How do you normally handle uncomfortable situations such as these? Planning ahead a bit can help. If you feel anxious you can plan to move around, mingle with other family members or get "into" the sb game or step outside for a breather. What would work for you?

I like his family, but every year they'd throw his ex a bday party, but I'm clearly not treated the same.

CB from what you shared here your H's family is acknowledging their own son's birthday a month late. (And, he was informed they plan to wrap his birthday celebration around a super bowl party that was already planned. Ouch!) Is there maybe something you can plan for your birthday next year that you know you will enjoy without the need for acknowledgment from his family? They don't seem to on top of birthday plans for their own son so I wouldn't take this too personally.  

I don't want to attend, but I don't want to be holding a grudge either(but I am still hurt). What would be a healthy thing to do in this situation?

Acknowledging your hurt is a first step. How are you coping with this? (What do your coping skills look like?) Second I would take a look at the steps under Choosing a Path (to the right of your screen)--->

Starting with step 1. Stopping the bleeding-tips on how to immediately diffuse the conflict. These techniques work with anyone and they can help in the situation with both your SIL and your H.

[Ceruleanblue]

That's just it, there is no "conflict" with SIL, but I know she withdrew for some reason. What's weird, is the daily contact was almost always initiated by her. She and I were sort of a good support system. She'd call when her kids were driving her crazy, or our FIL, or when she had trouble at work. The last time she did this, she verbally blew up at me so I at least knew why she was mad. This time, there was no reason, and her husband has told BPDh that she is not mad, but she refused to take my calls, when I wanted to ask what the issue was. I don't like conflict, but I'd rather face it calmly and find out what's going on. Last time she got over being angry at me, I told her she can always talk it out with me. I guess this is just how she deals with things.

I'll reread that link, of course. I too think being selectively selfish, is okay. I'm just learned to do that, but I still feel slight guilt over it at times. I've gone to so many events where BPDh promises things will be fine, and they aren't.

Oh, and here is another funny one. BPDh's brother and his wife just split up, and he hacked into either her phone or facebook, and she and I had been talking, so he may possibly be upset too. She reached out to me, and I was listening to her, and just being kind. BPDh's brother is a sex addict, and is in therapy for it, but my SIL got fed up, after finding yet more porn, and is done(maybe). Last year he pled down of offense of groping a 15 year old and propositioning her for sex. He had to wear the tether and the whole nine. Well, during the split up, he hacked her phone or facebook, and SIL told me he'd read our conversations. Not that I said anything awful, but it's not like I approve of the stuff he's done. This family has serious boundary issues.

I'm still undecided on going or not. I'm still raw from what BPDh did on my birthday, and on the days following, one of which I was celebrating with my kids.

Also, I don't want his family to have a party for me, but they don't even KNOW when my birthday is. A simple "happy birthday" might be nice once in five years. I've attended yearly parties for ALL of them! Usually BPDh has his party at the correct time, and I'm not sure why this year was different... .

[Notwendy]

This sounds to me like one of those double bind situations described with couples in conflicts and drama. There are so many possible drama triangle outcomes here, it could be a geometry book, You, SIL, DH, his family- all in some kind of drama conflict. It's the style of their interactions.

Double bind situations are conflict situations where there is no good solution as each one can lead to conflict.

You are expressing resentments about how this family treats you and your birthday. You don't want to go to this party but your H has asked you to go. While we can not predict the future, you know from past experience that going is likely to not go well with their drama. There is also a pattern to your interactions with your H from your threads. This is it:

In the case where your H wants you to do something, and you don't want to do it, you choose what you believe is the "high road" and be the nice supportive wife, even though you don't want to do what he asks you to. Then, when you do that, something happens to make you feel unappreciated, and not supported.

In the case where your H wants you to do something, and you don't want to do it, and you don't- there is a dysregulation, threats of divorce, anger, and even possible danger to you when you don't do what he wants.

This goes into the FOG, (Fear, Obligation, Guilt). FOG is what drives the first decision, in addition to, the payoff- the payoff is that you get to be the good person here, you did the good thing, but the cost of this decision is the possible drama and not feeling appreciated that has happened in the past.

The second decision is to follow what you are feeling. You don't want to go. But to choose to not go, you are going to have to deal with your feelings of fear, obligation, and guilt if you don't. There may also be such a dysregulation that you feel you are in danger. You may need your safety plan. Then there is the fear of divorce threats if you do.

I don't have an answer. Each choice has a payoff and a cost. When one breaks the pattern of appeasement, the other person doesn't like it. Rocking the boat involves risk.

[formflier]

That's just it, there is no "conflict" with SIL, but I know she withdrew for some reason. 

CB,

I'm an "actions" guy.  My love language is acts of service.  What was yours?  I know we posted about that in the past.

1.  I think giving your SIL space is good idea  Space is about her reasons.  Offer contact gently and then drop it if she doesn't respond.  In my world (and I suspect yours) it is assumed (the default) that a married couple goes to things like this together.  I would operate on that default and go. 

2.  Be prepared for odd stuff and don't react, don't ask why, just roll with it.  Thank them for the party and end the evening.

3.  I would figure out a surprise for your husband.  Nothing elaborate.  I would suggest something with flexibility.  If he has obviously had a bad day, "reschedule"  So, perhaps the surprise is "Honey, get in the car (with a wink and swat on the butt), it's your lucky night."  But only when you think he is in a neutral to good mood.  If you feel odd about another surprise birthday party, just take him out, have a good time (be deliberate and prepared to NOT talk about r/s stuff)

4.  At some point in the evening, take his hand, look at him and tell him that you appreciate and value him and wanted to do something nice for him.  Don't go over the top.  Obviously make the words yours, but keep it short, to the point, say it, and move along.

My hope is that you can feel good about your roll in the r/s and build him up some, without going over the top and triggering a "push" cycle.  Either way, if he responds well or badly, my hope is that you can focus on the good you did and feel good about that.

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

 

Oh yeah,

Notwendy it totally on the mark with double binds. 

Likely many will think you are wrong, regardless of what you do.  So, live according to your values.  Conduct your side of the marriage r/s in a way that you feel good about, while respecting that there are some emotional limitations on your hubbies side.  It is what it is.

FF

[Suzn]

Your SIL, for whatever reason,  seems to have decided to handle her problems in her marriage on her own without involving family members. Looking at that action alone, it's a show of emotional maturity. She seems to be addressing her own problems, needs and assessing what she needs to do, for herself.

From what you shared she has a lot on her plate. Sometimes being supportive of our friends and family is taking a step back and giving them space to figure out their own problems. You have made it clear, albeit through your husband and her husband, that you are open to communication. Can you leave it at that and not take her actions personally?

[Ceruleanblue]

Formflier:

I think you missed part of the backstory: BPDh's bday was a month ago, and we already celebrated with a nice dinner out, a really nice gift from me, the whole nine yards. Plus, he literally did ruin my birthday(and the following two days, one of which included the day my kids came to celebrate my bday).

WHY would I go out of my way to do something special for him, just a few days after his major dysregulation, and right after my birthday got trashed by him? I do not reward bad behavior. Period. I'm just way too hurt still to do a "for no reason" surprise for him right now.

Our marriage therapist suggested the important of repair in our relationship after something like this has happened, and it was addressed how it's always ME doing the repairs(a gesture of amends). Even when it's his place to do it, after he's done something incredibly hurtful, it has always fallen on me to try to "make up to him". I'm DONE doing that. I'll still do it if the wrong or hurt came from me, of course, but I try hard to never do anything intentionally hurtful to him. Of course, even if he gets hurt unintentionally, I'd do this. I'm just NOT, NOT, NOT going to do it anymore when it's not my place.

I've already reached out to SIL a lot, so I'm letting that ride. I've walked this path before, but that time I at least know why she was mad. This time, no clue, and I have come to not care. We went from being friends who chatted about our day, to nothing. And she really wasn't venting about her marriage to me, so I don't think that is her reason to withdraw. She'd vent about her kids, or FIL, but that was about it.

I could go, and act fine, but NotWendy is right, either action will have fallout. If I go, I will not really feel like the "good person", I'll actually feel pretty cowardly about myself. I'll be going to avoid the conflict of how he'll act if I don't go. I'll feel cowardly, but I'll have to be really strong, and on edge while I'm there. It'll feel like walking into a potential mine field.

I just wish I'd married into a nice, normal family. The one "normal" person, a former SIL, divorced my BIL, and there was never any drama surrounding her. She was a lot like me: easygoing, Christian, try to think well of people, don't engage in drama, always brought yummy desserts. She and I were a lot alike, and I feel I lost an ally when she left the family. These people just wear people like us out(actually BIL cheated on her, and she got smart and divorced him).

I'll probably end up going, and working on not feeling cowardly(because it's my choice after all, and the lesser of two evils, perhaps), and try not to feel resentment towards BPDh. It's not his fault that his family is throwing a bday party for him(albeit a month late?), immediately after MY bday, even if he could have at some point let them know when my birthday is. He told me last night that he should have, and he doesn't know why he never did.

I think it's just timing. The very weekend after he blew up my bday, and went on a scary three day dysregulation, he's expecting something of me, and it's exactly what he refused to give me: a nice bday. Plus, he also got upset when I said I wanted to see MY parents on my bday, so I just never did. He blew up when I'd told him I had planned to go see them while he was at work, and he ended up staying home from work.

Yeah, I think it's all just sucky timing, and BPDh should see why this would feel ICKY to me.

[Ceruleanblue]

Just trying to make healthy choices for ME. Not just based on what will please BPDh. What will give ME the most peace. Going, of course is likely the best option, but I also don't want to go just because I can't live with the fallout from BPDh. I CAN, I just don't want to right now. After last weekend, I'm just getting my feet back under me.

Plus, if someone acts crappy to me there, that's only going to make them look bad, not me. I'm hoping they won't.

I'm going to give this thought today, and really try to do what is best case scenario for ME. What is going to make ME feel best in a no win situation.

[formflier]

 

So, I think I get where you are coming from.  Couple questions.

If hubby needs to do repair work, then let him do it.

Why worry about when anyone else throws birthday parties for him?  Maybe they will surprise him with another one on fourth of July!   

That's their business, live for you and let the chips, SIL's, parties and others fall where they may.

The reason I suggested the action that I did was I sensed you wanted to do something to counteract your hubbies toxic family.  Something you could do to feel good about your actions, not really repair anything.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Formflier:

Ah, I see. BPDh didn't actually feel badly that his family didn't throw him a party. His siblings all wished him happy birthday on his birthday, as did his Dad, and his son did(don't think he heard from the girls). His brother also took him to lunch for his bday. I have no idea why they are throwing the "surprise" party so long after the fact, but I think they didn't throw his other brother a party this year either, due to scheduling or something.

When I said "repair work", I don't mean in regards to his BPD/NPD/abusive behaviors. Our therapist was talking about when he's dsyregulated or done something hurtful, that a "repair" effort needs to be made, beyond a grudging apology. That was what I meant by "repair". It's always been ME trying to get us back on good footing, even when I didn't blow it up.

I don't fee I need to counteract BPDh's family. If he felt badly about them, I'd commiserate, and empathize, but he's not feeling badly that they are throwing him a party.

He just views it sort of like a kid would, I think: COOL, I get a party that's all about ME!(according to his Dad the Super Bowl was the excuse to get us there). BPDh doesn't see that his actions on MY bday last week, and that the timing of this party just stinks for me. Plus, BPDh is liable to make the party awkward by announcing "oh, Ceruleanblue also had a birthday just last week"... .

I'm just going to roll with it, and realize all this is not a reflection on me. And I wouldn't worry about this party if there wasn't history of events turning out badly for me. As in, people don't always play nice. It's like if someone decides to unleash on you, you are just supposed to like it. I'll walk out if that happens. In fact, maybe I'll drive separately if I decide to go.

Yes, definitely driving separate might be a good idea.

[Suzn]

I've already reached out to SIL a lot, so I'm letting that ride. I've walked this path before, but that time I at least know why she was mad. This time, no clue, and I have come to not care.

You did care a lot. Is "coming not to care" shutting yourself down to avoid feeling hurt?

We went from being friends who chatted about our day, to nothing. And she really wasn't venting about her marriage to me, so I don't think that is her reason to withdraw. She'd vent about her kids, or FIL, but that was about it.

Oh, and here is another funny one. BPDh's brother and his wife just split up, and he hacked into either her phone or facebook, and she and I had been talking, so he may possibly be upset too. She reached out to me, and I was listening to her, and just being kind. BPDh's brother is a sex addict, and is in therapy for it, but my SIL got fed up, after finding yet more porn, and is done(maybe). Last year he pled down of offense of groping a 15 year old and propositioning her for sex. He had to wear the tether and the whole nine. Well, during the split up, he hacked her phone or facebook, and SIL told me he'd read our conversations. Not that I said anything awful, but it's not like I approve of the stuff he's done. This family has serious boundary issues.

Is this the same SIL? If so, she may have come to consider her husbands feelings (betrayal/hurt?) when he found these texts and such. There is no telling what is going on behind closed doors between the two of them or what agreements they have arrived at. (Even if this isn't the same SIL, this could still apply.)

I'll probably end up going and try not to feel resentment towards BPDh. It's not his fault that his family is throwing a bday party for him

This is perceptive of you.

Also, I don't want his family to have a party for me, but they don't even KNOW when my birthday is. A simple "happy birthday" might be nice once in five years. I've attended yearly parties for ALL of them!

Have you never invited this family for a birthday dinner? As much as anyone likes surprises, we can't rationally blame anyone that doesn't know when our birthday is for not saying happy birthday. Some assertiveness on your own behalf may help with your resentment in the future.

He just views it sort of like a kid would, I think: COOL, I get a party that's all about ME! BPDh is liable to make the party awkward by announcing "oh, Ceruleanblue also had a birthday just last week"... .

This is one perspective. In the first part, I could see anyone feeling this way about a birthday party for them. The second... .why would this be awkward for you? I'm curious if you can identify another emotion here?

I would feel ____ if he announced to his family that my birthday was last week.

Here's another perspective on him announcing your birthday, from all that you've shared here:

He's childlike in his thoughts of this celebration (Could his announcing your birthday be him including you?)

He heard you. (When you asked why he never told his family)

He heard the MC. (Could this be viewed as a reparation? If so, and it may be small, it would be progress.)

He's trying. (how would a child react if they are trying to do what you complained about them not doing and you found fault with that?)

[Ceruleanblue]

No, I'm talking about two different sister in laws. The one that her my BIL found the text messages won't be at this party, because I think she's done with him(although we've thought that before). I'm trying to be there for her because I know how hard break ups are, and I know how much she put up with to stay in this relationship.

The SIL I'm worried about, and whose house it is at, is the one I'm concerned about. I'm definitely NOT shutting down to protect myself. I've just made peace that SHE is mad, or needs space, for whatever reason(I suspect it's that she's mad again though), and that I've done all I can do by reaching out. When she wants to talk about it, or have contact again, I'll be open to that, but I'm not going to sit around and fret, and feel it's all the drama.

And I'd feel weird planning my own birthday party or dinner. In fact, all I'd really like is for a simple "happy birthday" wish from them via text or next time they see me. They don't even know when my birthday is, because BPDh hasn't told them. My family knows BPDh's birthday because he's important to me, so I let them know, and they always wish him happy birthday, and give him a gift. My family isn't big into parties.

And heck, I KNOW, from seeing old pics, that this family used to combine birthdays of some family members, and yet BPDh, Me, and my daugher all have birthdays within three weeks of each other. It's just like I'm of such little important to BPDh that he can't be bothered, but he just told me he arranged a party for his ex EVERY YEAR. It stinks.

It's not a measure of MY self worth, but it is yet another example of how little BPDh values me, and his family has confirmed he treated his crazypants ex so much better. They think it's because I'm nice, and "take crap off him", and they say they don't know why he kissed her butt.

I guess I shouldn't feel awkward if he does say something in regards to my birthday at the party. He may or may not. He actually asked my daughter if she wanted to come, of course. He treats my daughter the way I wish he'd treat me. He's just WEIRD.

I see he was trying, but the last week, he's gone off the rails. It's weird that it's been since DBT has started. I wonder if that is stirring things up?

[Suzn]

I've done all I can do by reaching out. When she wants to talk about it, or have contact again, I'll be open to that, but I'm not going to sit around and fret.

Good for you. 

And I'd feel weird planning my own birthday party or dinner.

I get that this may feel weird. I plan my own bday party every year. Sometimes I am the only guest, by choice.   

It's just like I'm of such little important to BPDh that he can't be bothered, but he just told me he arranged a party for his ex EVERY YEAR. It stinks.

This does stink. I'd be upset hearing this too. Some guys aren't very good at planning and I don't know if I'd just believe that his ex had nothing to do with the fact there was a party every year "planned" by him. Hard to say.

It's not a measure of MY self worth, but it is yet another example of how little BPDh values me, and his family has confirmed he treated his crazypants ex so much better. They think it's because I'm nice, and "take crap off him", and they say they don't know why he kissed her butt.

Hmmm, they say this? The same family that threw her a bday party every year? Are you following this?

I guess I shouldn't feel awkward if he does say something in regards to my birthday at the party. He may or may not.

You're right, right now this is all speculation. Personally, I would find it endearing if he did. It's all about attitude CB, can you allow yourself to roll with it? Can you see yourself easing into having a good time? 

He actually asked my daughter if she wanted to come, of course. He treats my daughter the way I wish he'd treat me. He's just WEIRD.

It's great that he treats your daughter well. Children are easier for someone who has a more childlike view emotionally. Adults are a different matter. Adults, specifically a romantic partner, come with a different set of boundaries (and triggers). 

I see he was trying, but the last week, he's gone off the rails. It's weird that it's been since DBT has started. I wonder if that is stirring things up?

Even a non disordered individual can struggle with the reality of having issues that are best dealt with by the help of a therapist. If he has accepted his diagnosis that's the biggest hurdle but there are other hurdles to overcome along the way. He may fluctuate back and forth with his acceptance. No one changes ingrained beliefs overnight. It takes a lot of focus, determination and time. When anyone gets serious about working on issues they may have it's work... .that's why they call it "working" on yourself.

His new skills may feel awkward for a while. The same can be said for the skills you will need to work on in order to have a more successful relationship with him. It's going to take work on both sides, his and yours.

This was the first skill I seriously worked on for my relationship with my mother. It works wonders and it did feel a little awkward at first but it has been well worth my effort.

COMMUNICATION: D.E.A.R.M.A.N. technique

D.E.A.R.M.A.N. is used when you have an objective, you want something specific, such as to get more sleep, to have help with the chores, to affect a change or to say NO to a request. You want the other person to come away feeling good about you and not full of resentment. This preserves the relationship. You also want to protect or even enhance your self respect.

[Ceruleanblue]

Just to clarify: My daughter is 20, so she is an adult. BPDh hates my son, and in fact kicked him out of the house, but he is only 17, and didn't deserve the hatred BPDh directed at him.

BPDh was much the same with his own daughters though, so I know it's just sort of how he is. My daughter complains about him staring at her or "creeping her out", but she also manipulates him into doing things she wants. He's actually acted like a Dad to her for five years, and I appreciate that. I just wish he wasn't quite so up her butt... .. It's like her needs her admiration, and needs to feel needed from her. HER opinion matters a ton to him, and his day can be ruined if she's mad at him.

I can go and try to have a nice time, of course. I don't plan on being miserable, I just have anxiety due to all the current stuff going on. It used to be I only had to worry about his grown daughters being rude, but now it's more than just that. Plus, BPDh lacks whatever it is that allows him to defend his partner. He once let him brother call his ex a b___, and he did nothing. He's never defended me, no matter how mean/rude his girls are. I can stick up for myself, of course, but he would rage, and get angry if I even attempted to do that. Last time it happened, I just left MY home to get away from his raging daughter.

I'm in therapy, and have been working on myself, and following my therapist's advice. I'll read up on D.E.A.R.M.A.N again.

I think maybe BPDh's therapist is not letting him shirk blame onto me, and is really addressing his issues? Just a guess, but something has him dysregulated and very angry lately. Only thing I can think of is that he's cycling back into wanting his kids at any cost(they want him to divorce me, then he can "see them" again), or that he's not being able to bamboozle this DBT therapist into thinking all his issues are ME, and she'd wanting him to work on his behaviors. He hates having to admit he needs to work on anything. I work MY issues constantly, and he always finds more ways I'm "flawed".

[formflier]

CB

I would encourage you to think about the relationship issues in your house as a dynamic where many people have input and can affect the outcome.

Please understand I am not trying to absolve your hubby of anything he has done.  I am hoping you can look at the other side of each issue.  Others have choices and influences as well.

But singularly making him responsible for events where others clearly had choices, even if they elected to not make a choice, is not helpful to finding solutions for the future of your marriage.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Formflier:

Of course, everyone has choices, and everyone's decisions/actions affect the outcome. I don't feel I solely blame BPDh for things, but I feel everyone needs to own their own issues and work on them. I'm working on mine.

I contributed in that I let him have way too much control, not at first, but as time went on because I became afraid when his rages started. I became a doormat to avoid conflict. I actually had good boundaries when we met, but those slowly got eroded, and I've had to start over in that regard. I started doing that about a year ago.

And I feel if I don't hold him accountable(in my mind) for the abuse, that I'll back down, and continue to give him the message that it's okay.

You lost me on the part about "electing not to make a choice". Everyone around here is pretty strong minded in their choices, and opinions. I'm the only one who has the bad tendency to cave or compromise too much just for the sake of "peace"(odd, when there is very little peace). I'm seeing that it's ineffective anyway, so I may as well, state my truth, and live my own true life. If it angers others, or creates fallout, I'll deal with that in a healthy way(or at least try to).

Also, I think I've had a tendency to back down on things, because I really do listen to what BPDh tells me, or what he wants, and I over empathize, and I've put HIS needs before mine. It's my ability to empathize, or "put myself in his shoes", that I feel has been my undoing sometimes. He now just expects it of me. I've often felt he doesn't understand my feelings(or actually care, as he's said as much), but he doesn't ever tell me that I don't care about his. He knows I do, and that I'll put him first before myself time after time. I'm going to stop doing that.

I was raised in a marriage that was healthy, and with the belief that both partners are supposed to give 100%. That marriage is often about being selfless. It's about interdependence, not codependence or dependence. I realize we'll never have the marriage I'd expected going in, but I sure hope we get to where the "balance" isn't so very lopsided.

Basically, I just want to be treated kindly. Period. I'm not sure he's ever going to be capable of that. The role I have in his life: wife, seems to be the person he "targets".

[formflier]

and everyone's decisions/actions affect the outcome. I don't feel I solely blame BPDh for things

I had noticed earlier a posting about how your son came to not live with you guys anymore.  I realize it is a tender topic.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, that topic is one I struggle with. I've always been able to forgive BPDh for everything he's done, until he forced me to choose to live with my son, or him. Plus, he threw my son out of the house during the last week we had together. If I hadn't gotten between them, he'd have hurt my son. Plus, he's still not sorry for what he did, and he sees how I grieved, and how much it hurts me to have lost these two years with my son. It's his junior and senior year of school, and while I see him often, it is not the same as living with him.

It's just so unfair because as mean and hateful as BPDh's grown kids were, I never made him "choose", and I kept going around them(at BPDh's insistance), in hopes that things would get better. Also, I waited to even live with BPDh after we were married, because I WAITED for his son to graduate, and get out of school. Complete and utter double standard. I understood he wanted to wait until his son was off to college, doing his own thing.

I'll never think what he did was "okay", but I'm hoping I can forgive him at some point. It would help if he could be sorry, but I realize that will not happen. It's almost like he blames me for his kids deserting him, so he wanted to make me hurt in the same way.

The difference is that my son and I still have a good relationship, and it was my son who told me to go ahead and move, and it's my son who has displayed far more mature behavior than BPDh. I have a feeling that at some point, BPDh is going to tell me that my son can't visit me here, and that may be the day I have to leave him. When my son comes to visit, he goes and hides in the bedroom, or sulks. I interact with his son when he comes over. I was raised by a southern Dad, and manners were important.

[formflier]

 

CB,

Thanks for sharing about this very sensitive topic.

What do you think would have happened if you said NO, when he wanted you to make a choice? 

What did him "throwing your kid out" actually look like.

Nothing in my question is trying to assign blame or any of that.  I (obviously if you read my posts) do wonder about when to "stand up" and when to "let it roll off". 

From what I have read of your story I agree that it is likely that he was jealous of your r/s with your kid.  My guess is he was trying to "toss" you the idea that yours is bad too, so he is ok.  I wonder how the dynamic would have changed  or if you would have done nothing (not say yes or no).  Basically make him hold on to his kid issues.  If it got to the point where he is physically trying to toss kid out, involve authorities and let natural consequences flow.

Again, no criticism, trying to evaluate alternate courses of action so that in future, you have a better foundation on which to make decisions. 

Finally, for CB and all reading.  I'm a trained decision maker.  Focused on thinking clearly in high stress situations and all that.  I was really good at it in the military.  I am amazed and humbled at how hard it is to think clearly and make solid decisions in the face of a pwBPD "doing their thing" and with me unconsciously slipping back into old patterns.


FF

[Ceruleanblue]

That day was awful, and even though it's been nearly a year, it's a day I'll never forget. BPDh and I were talking in the garage, so as to keep it away from my kids. Problem with that is, BPDh is a yeller, and he was angry at me over something. Someone came to the front door, and apparently when my son(then 16) answered the door he got embarrassed by how loud BPDh was being, and as he shut the door he said "that was so embarrassing".

BPDh heard him, and went charging from the garage after my son, and I ran to catch up because I knew he'd hurt him. I could see the rage in his face, and knew for a couple years that he barely tolerated my son. He went into my sons room, and started physically hauling out his mattress, his things, and I begged him to stop, and my hand got hugely bruised in the process. BPDh called my Mom(he likes to involve my 80 year old Mother), and he said both my kids(even my daughter that he dotes on) had to leave the house, and stay out, for our last week there. We'd already known we were moving, and that my son was going to stay behind and live at my folks. I really, really struggled with that choice, and let my son weigh in, and would have stayed, but he said to move with BPDh and see if the marriage could be saved. He's a lot more level headed than BPDh, and frankly, in his position, I'd have been like "that guy's crazy Mom, get away from him". But, my son has his own anger issues too, although he's learned to calm himself, and he really tiptoed around BPDh. BPDh hated my son because my son can have a disprespectful mouth towards me, but he doesn't cuss at me, and I can see how much he's improved as he's gotten older.

BPDh refused to relent and let my son come back home for that final week, but he did say my daughter could come back. I wouldn't let her if my son couldn't come too. They were fine at my Mom's across town, and actually a whole lot safer.

The final kicker is that same day, BPDh was all threats and screaming at me about "losing his kids" so I did something finally, out of FEAR, that I still regret. I called his kids individually, and I apologized to them. I left two five minute or more voicemails to two of them, and the third was just awful to me on the phone. I had to lie to apologize, because I never did or said anything I needed to apologize for, in fact, it was them that owed me an apology for lies about me, and how they'd blown up at me at various times(all but one did this, and she's just more sneaky). The apology was NOT the magic bullet BPDh thought it would be. He'd told me for two years that apologizing would fix everything with them. I knew it wouldn't because they are likely BPD too, and they are huge control freaks. They just want me out of his life so they can have Daddy back like they used to.

That day is fraught with regrets, but only for me. BPDh refuses to have any remorse. I'm sure he's presented it in therapy with his skewed perspective, and he leaves out the incidents where he got physical or just how scary enraged he was. He whitewashes things.

After we moved, and things settled down some, BPDh was better behaved than he'd been since we got married. That lasted about six months, then the same pattern started again: Deep depression, anger, rages, blame, put on notice at his job, sadness due to the holidays and missing his kids. He doesn't seem to ever just look for the good, or be thankful for what we do have.

I'm living without my son daily, and it's a great source of hurt, but I'm not using it as an excuse to be angry, or to strike out at BPDh. It's more on an inner struggle to forgive him. All the lesser stuff has been so much easier to forgive, but this I admittedly struggle with.

I'm hoping to never be put in this sort of situation again.

[formflier]

Thank you for sharing that?  I can imagine how painful that must have been.

Did you consider calling the cops?  It sounds like you attempted to physically stop your hubby.  Correct?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I physically stopped him from throwing the mattress out in the yard(where he was headed), and stopped him from hurting my son who'd tall at 6'2", but pretty much a toothpick at his age. Husband is 6", and outweighs my son by 60 pounds, and was in a rage. I know better than to ever get physical with BPDh(and that's just not my thing anyway), but in this case, there wasn't time to call the police. If I hadn't just reacted, he might have hurt my son.

I could have called the cops after he left my son's room, but I think that might have escalated things even worse. Really, what would they have done. A couple months before that, while we were separated, I DID call the cops because BPDh was coming over because I'd taken some money from the bank account, and he was MAD. The cops came to the house, were waiting for him, and actually called him and told him "not to come to the house". He came anyway, and shouldered his way past the one cop, and yet the cops did nothing but try to calm him down, and try to get ME to give him the money back(money I needed to live off). This left me feeling that my local cops woulnd't do anything, and it would likely have made BPDh much angrier at me than he already was.

Of course, I could have shown them my cut/bruised hand, and maybe they'd have hauled him off the day he threw my son out, but what good would that have done? He'd already been to anger management twice in his life, and that didn't do him any good. At least he started DBT after this incident... .

[formflier]

 

Again, huge hugs and thanks for sharing some painful, personal things.

Did you give the money back?


Boy, I've struggled in the past with when to "protect" the pwBPD in my life and when to let consequences follow.

Generally, I think consequences are a good thing.  It helps clarify choices.

I do understand the immediacy of the situation, that sounds like a scary day.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I did actually give the money back, and ended up scraping by by selling my car, I think. He's a bully, and he's not used to not getting his way. Heck, I think there were three cops there, but there were at least two, and BPDh wasn't in the least bit concerned with them being there.

Other people might have handled it differently, but I'm not sure they'd have gotten a different outcome. It's pretty much my "day that shall live in infamy".

As much as it saddens me, I don't think I can even look forward to my son moving here to attend college like we'd originally planned. It's closer for him, but I just don't think him being around BPDh would be good for him. BPDh hasn't greatly improved his self control, and he still obviously hates my son. I feel like I married into a bunch of haters. BPDh and his kids all hate certain people for no apparent or good reason. They fail to see that it hurts them the most in the end.

[formflier]

OK, this is FF advice on handling bullies.  I don't know about bullies with BPD.

But in life, bullies bully those that they can get away with bullying.  Once you punch them in nose.  They usually stop.

No idea how to morph that into a rule or lesson with someone that has BPD.

FF