Another Validation Fail...

[ArleighBurke]

I tried to talk to my BPDw last night. We dont' have sex as much as I'd like because she also has childhood abuse issues that keep coming up - so it's often very difficult for her to get herself in the right frame of mind. I don't push that. But we also never kiss (open mouth) outside of sex, nor can I touch most of her body or even kiss her neck.

All the kids were asleep, she'd had a good day. I was massaging her shoulders. I actually think I did a really good job talking. I was soft, genuine, talking about how I felt, preempting her feelings (pre-validating), asking for a joint soluition, saying I understood if she didn't have answers... .

I said: I enjoy touching you. I know it pushes you away. But I want to touch you all the time. It makes me feel close to you. Not being able to touch you just makes me feel distant. I also miss kissing you. I'm not sure how you feel about french kissing me, but I'd like to find out. Is it like sex? Do you have to be in the right mood? I know we don't have sex enough, I was thinking that if we kissed more, that would help me feel emotionally connected to you. I know you've talked about feeling distant from me as well. Is there a way we can kiss more? Perhaps there's not - that's OK. But I want to talk and work on a soluton together.

I took about 5 times longer to say it that that. But I was being very slow, very loving, very "I want to understand".

BPDw: I don't have any answers. It's complicated.

Me: Sure. But perhaps if we talk about it we can find out something. I don't want to give up.  I  want to feel close to you. I miss you. 

BPDw: I know you probably don't feel this way, but I feel like you're giving me an ultamatum - either give me more sex and kissing or I'm out of here.

Me: No! I just want to be close to you - I want to find out how we can be close. I do get closeness through physical stuff - so I'd like to find a way. But if we can't then I'll try to stay close another way - I'll find another solution - I won't give up.

BPDw: This makes me feel scared, anxious. You seem angry.

Me: I feel frustrated - I can understand that looks like anger. I want to connect with you and I'm trying to work out how.

BPDw: You being angry sets off warning bells in me. You're ignoring how I'M feeling!... .

Then the conversation just went downhill... .

What went wrong? Well when she said she felt I was giving an ultimatum - I didn't validate! I told her no and tried to clarify. Yes that would work for any other person, but not a BPD. So that feeling was "undealt" with and hence the conversation was doomed from then on in.

Validation!

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[tryingsome]

My experience is you talking about what you want too much.

pwBPD are Push/Pull.

If you want more sex or more kissing or whatnot don't talk about those things.

Don't be 'soft'. Don't talk about 'how you feel' (especially about her or you)

What does she like? Talk about that.

My pwBPD tried to rip my clothes off when I talked about science.

Or if I talked about nature.

Don't talk about the relationship, it just causes push/pull in the relationship.

When you talk about kissing her more that would make you feel closer - warning bells -> enmeshment.

Think about when you first met. What things did she like hearing from you?

Revisit those topics. Talk about anything other than the relationship and you'll get farther.

[formflier]

 

Validation will "work" for anyone.  Learning how to validate is a life lesson that will help you with all of your relationships.

Validation is critical for a pwBPD because many times their feelings are "in the way" of them being able to hear what you have to say.

In this case she was "feeling" ultimatum, so whatever came out of you mouth was going to sound like that.  Validation, perhaps, could help reduce that feeling so that she could actually hear what you had to say.

I still struggle with validation, but when I get it right, I can tell that it works.  It's worth the effort to learn, keep it up.

FF

[TheRealJongoBong]

You mentioned that your wife has childhood abuse issues, this is quite common in my experience. When the abuse was sexual in nature it can cause emotional flashbacks in the present which sound quite similar to what you're describing. Unfortunately, it is the acts and feelings around sex that are causing her to relive her past as an emotional flashback. The fact is that if she doesn't deal with this issue it is very unlikely to go away.

A valuable resource for you to understand this situation better is the book Trauma and Recovery by J. Herman. The chapter on child abuse is particularly helpful.

[sweetheart]

ArleighBurke it might feel like a validation fail to you, but it also sounds to me that you made a really caring, sensitive attempt to address a very difficult issue with your w. Especially given her history. 

It's great that you realise where you forgot to validate her, and it's completely understandable that you didn't want her to think you were giving her an ultimatum. Hence the defensive 'no.'

Using the tools can feel a lot like learning a foreign language, well they do for me  , maybe try out aspects of a conversation here first next time. So we can help you iron out any possible blind spots or bumps in the road.