Please take a look and give me some advice

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I posted yesterday about the most recent breakup (there have been too many to count over the past 2.5 years).  I don't know why I let it get to me, but this time around it is affecting me more seriously.  Is it because I know it's over this time?  Logic, tells me she will be back, but the utter disregard for me and my feelings she showed by flat out ignoring me is surprising.  Most of the times she broke up with me by phone or text, letting me know that it was over and how it was all my fault, because "she's just not in love with me anymore", or "you play video games", or "you're not helpful enough", etc. etc.  This time she didn't even bother to tell me that it was over but I think that maybe she didn't want it to be, but she knew it would be based on what she did (which I'll explain below).  There are a couple things that happened and I wanted to get some opinions.  I know it's a guessing game but some clarity would really help.

This all happened Friday-Sunday of last week and is very fresh, but I wanted to point out that on Wednesday and Thursday she was spending time with me and my family.  She is close with my mom and had a few deep conversations with my mom about how much she loves me and wants to spend her future with me.  I guess that she is just a liar?  I don't understand how it goes from being so in love to flat out done in a matter of 24-48 hours.  A couple things were weird about this break up.  She went to have dinner with one of her friends who is toxic on Friday.  We've talked about this friend before and I've told her never to talk about me or our relationship with this person.  I think she did, and I think that may have altered her thinking or triggered her to make another impulsive decision.

2-3 weeks ago, she had broken up with me for "not being helpful", and she was very very angry.  I kind of knew that it was a bluff because I hadn't done anything and she was very angry.  Less than a week later she calls me and apologizes, and says she wants to move in with me.  Now listen to this part because I think this is the most important - she had gotten in a fight with her sister who she is currently living with and she wanted to break her lease to hurt her sister and exert her dominance or whatever in that relationship.  Further, her sister is not a good person and does not like me, and I think whatever heart-to-heart may have occurred on Saturday also contributed to this.  Moving in with me was never the plan, I think she was just trying to get at her sister so when it came to this weekend she knew what she had to do, and tell me she couldn't do it, but instead she ignored me all weekend, and based on my reaction maybe she is ok with breaking up too. 

Ultimately I was used to hurt her sister?  I don't understand this one at all because I haven't even gotten any explanation.  Just ignored until she responds "stop harassing me".  I know I don't deserve this, I just thought she cared about me.

[hellogoodbye2424]

I posted yesterday about the most recent breakup (there have been too many to count over the past 2.5 years).  I don't know why I let it get to me, but this time around it is affecting me more seriously.  Is it because I know it's over this time?  Logic, tells me she will be back, but the utter disregard for me and my feelings she showed by flat out ignoring me is surprising.  Most of the times she broke up with me by phone or text, letting me know that it was over and how it was all my fault, because "she's just not in love with me anymore", or "you play video games", or "you're not helpful enough", etc. etc.  This time she didn't even bother to tell me that it was over but I think that maybe she didn't want it to be, but she knew it would be based on what she did (which I'll explain below).  There are a couple things that happened and I wanted to get some opinions.  I know it's a guessing game but some clarity would really help.

This all happened Friday-Sunday of last week and is very fresh, but I wanted to point out that on Wednesday and Thursday she was spending time with me and my family.  She is close with my mom and had a few deep conversations with my mom about how much she loves me and wants to spend her future with me.  I guess that she is just a liar?  I don't understand how it goes from being so in love to flat out done in a matter of 24-48 hours.  A couple things were weird about this break up.  She went to have dinner with one of her friends who is toxic on Friday.  We've talked about this friend before and I've told her never to talk about me or our relationship with this person.  I think she did, and I think that may have altered her thinking or triggered her to make another impulsive decision.

2-3 weeks ago, she had broken up with me for "not being helpful", and she was very very angry.  I kind of knew that it was a bluff because I hadn't done anything and she was very angry.  Less than a week later she calls me and apologizes, and says she wants to move in with me.  Now listen to this part because I think this is the most important - she had gotten in a fight with her sister who she is currently living with and she wanted to break her lease to hurt her sister and exert her dominance or whatever in that relationship.  Further, her sister is not a good person and does not like me, and I think whatever heart-to-heart may have occurred on Saturday also contributed to this.  Moving in with me was never the plan, I think she was just trying to get at her sister so when it came to this weekend she knew what she had to do, and tell me she couldn't do it, but instead she ignored me all weekend, and based on my reaction maybe she is ok with breaking up too. 

Ultimately I was used to hurt her sister?  I don't understand this one at all because I haven't even gotten any explanation.  Just ignored until she responds "stop harassing me".  I know I don't deserve this, I just thought she cared about me.

[Frustratedbloke]

Yep, the kind of childish manipulative game a six year old would play? Not really thinking about the consequences? Yeah, it sounds about right.

Let me share one of mine and maybe they tally. I think I might have said this yesterday. I might be turning into my nan, retelling the same story, I don't know... .

In the last four weeks of our 'relationship' this time around I drove a 10 hour round trip to the airport. I did that twice, to take her and collect her when she went back to her home country for Christmas. When she returned she didn't have time for me, then came round, out of the blue, and 'invited' me to take her and her sister to London again at the weekend.

She didn't come round to be intimate, she didn't come round to spend time with me, I even made a joke and said soo, you came round to give me kisses and cuddles yeah? She was cold, I said I don't think I'm going to take you to London this weekend, it got worse and she left.

Three days later she calls me: 'someone else is taking me to London, how much is the fuel going to be?'

Like rubbing it in my face and wanting jealousy. I laughed, said 'you found another sucker to take you, good job!' She put the phone down on me after stuttering and honestly that's the last conversation we had. Since then messages and emails.

It never ends in an adult fashion when you are dealing with a child.

[WoundedBibi]

I don't think there was a master plan. If she has BPD she acts on impulse. Argument with the sister, "you bleep! I will hurt you! I will... .I will... .I know! I will leave you here on your own, move in with my bf, see if you can pay for this place on your own! What do you think about that!" Without thinking through the consequences. It is all done in the spur of the moment. Feeling? Immediate response!

I don't think she's a liar either. That is really how she feels. Remember how you felt when you broke up, maybe the first time, maybe the worst time, and you felt all over the place? Like people here write "one minute I love her, then I hate her, I miss her, then I'm glad she's gone".

It's like that for a pwBPD all the time. 24/7. Up, down, left, right, up, down, etc.

AND they NEED (to get rid of primal fear) to act on those feelings immediately. Feeling = love, action = talk about future. Feeling = hate, action is breakup. Ohh... .back to the love, action = "baby, I'm sorry... " All in one day.

[hellogoodbye2424]

She hasn't ever used the silent treatment on me though.  At the very least I thought she was capable of being an adult in respect to communication.  That's what hurts the most about this whole thing.  This very well could be the end, and it should be, and maybe I shouldn't be so upset about it.  But damnit, I cared so much for this woman.  I truly put her before myself and to think that the way it came to end was by being ignored.  Not even receiving a goodbye or farewell or even a reason... .  It's hard to wake up and be myself right now.  It's hard to get through things without thinking about this.

[Frustratedbloke]

If you didn't put yourself before her she would have moved on to someone else in the first week, they need that giving nature. They don't appreciate it, they wipe their feet on it, but they need it.

They don't do farewells. They feel vulnerable, guilty, ashamed, and that becomes your fault.

Honestly it's hard, I know it is, but maybe we just have to live with it the way it is.

[hellogoodbye2424]

You mean if I didn't put herself before me?  I guess that makes sense.  I would've done anything for this woman.  It's really hard to swallow that this is how it ends.  The silent treatment on her part has made me feel worthless, made the relationship feel worthless.  It's an incredibly low feeling.  And I have no desire for anything.  This time it has put me in a very bad place.  Maybe because I know it's really over this time.  Maybe not, but moving forward is going to be so hard.

[WoundedBibi]

As far as I can tell the silent treatment is often used as punishment. Or as with my ex punishment + "if you really love me you can read my mind so I don't have to tell you how I feel" reasoning. Plus pwBPD tend to disappear every now and again and remain silent while being away. Not sure if they all go to the place where all the single socks disappear to (sorry, joke) but some use this disappearing act to cheat, others to get away from pressure. They are all different people...

So maybe in her world you have done something you need to be punished for.

Or she pulled a disappearing act which for her does not have to mean it is over.

Sometimes it helps to read one of the other boards on bpdfamily. To get a different pov. I read about a girl with BPD who would get this unrest inside she felt she could not control. The solution to get rid of the unrest is sleeping with someone else. So she actually told her bf "I'm going to cheat on you" For him that obviously would mean 'game over'. He was surprisingly calm about it though. They went to their T together, discussed what was about to happen, and even though she knew the cheating would end the relationship and she did not want that, she still felt she could not control her urge to go out and do it.

So maybe this is what's happening with your SO just without the "I'm going to cheat" announcement.

The thing is, you don't know. Neither do we.

The thing is, whatever her answer is when you ask her, she might be lying, and you will probably not believe her anyway; her answer might differ from moment to moment.

If she says she has cheated, you'll walk out. If she says she didn't you probably wouldn't believe her. And walk out. Or stay but with a major trust issue. Which will lead to the next piece of tension between you two.

Question. If she has shown behaviour that wasn't adult behaviour, why would you expect her to be adult in her communication?

And was that a realistic expectation based on her communication in the past? "yes, no, hot, cold" isn't adult behaviour or adult communication IMO.

And pwBPD usually don't close doors. They need to know there will be a safety net. Saying goodbye is closing the door. That is very scary for a pwBPD. I think you expect more adult behaviour from her than she is able to give.

If you want to be with someone that isn't able to be an adult, is your choice to make, but a really really difficult one.

Of course your upset about this situation. You care about her and a relationship with a pwBPD is like nothing else you have ever experienced. A breakup with s pwBPD is also like nothing else you have ever experienced. Detaching from a pwBPD, yeah... ., like nothing you have ever experienced...

We all have gone and go through the heartbreak of the breakup, and of the relationship. Both are heartbreaks, riddles, puzzles, conundrums, crazy making, exhausting, mind boggling and take up a lot of your mental and emotional capacity.

Try to distract yourself. Ruminating about it will not make you able to look inside her head.

Hang in there  

[hellogoodbye2424]

Thank you.  That's what it feels like, punishment.  For playing video games, supposedly.  One of the few things she had said to me over the weekend was "you know what has been disappointing me for a long time", and I know this is referring to me playing any form of video game.  Just typing that out seems so silly, but it's the truth.  She's used it as a reason to break up with me before.

And to answer your question:  I have seen her improve over the past few years, and I think she is capable.  Maybe I am wrong, but I believe in her.  We've had adult conversations before, and they have gone fine.  That's what is so perplexing.

She maintains that she has/never will be a cheater.  Let me tell you about our worst breakup next to this one.  It was about a year ago and I broke up with her because she booked a trip to Mexico with a guy who she told me had tried to "rape" her when she went to LA with him years ago.  She is 25 and he is over 40.  Naturally I didn't see booking this trip without consulting me and intending to go on it as appropriate behavior in a committed relationship, so I broke up with her.  She has (and still does) always kept a bunch of guys talking to her on facebook and text, etc.  and I've caught guys saying stuff like "let's get married", "come visit me" and stuff like that.  I don't have control over that though.  One of the guys who was increasingly texting her and causing me concern was a coworker.  After I broke it off with her, she ended up with this coworker.  He lived in the same building as me so I'd see her car and know what was going on.  It was soo hard to deal with at the time.  Of course him/her only lasted a month maybe, and she came back to me and actually was very apologetic about how much she hurt me, but nothing really changed.  I think my trust for her is nearly gone now, and I've just assumed that she did cheat and if she didn't she will be with someone very soon.  It's just weird because when she breaks up with me she usually comes running back, and when I break up with her she lashes out.  This time it feels final because nothing was said until Monday and really no explanation was given other than the "you have an idea of what has been disappointing me"

[bunny4523]

Hi there,

If you believe or your gf has been BPD or she has been diagnosed then you need to realize none of the things that are happening will make sense when you put the facts into your brain to evaluate.  That is the hardest part about dealing with a partner with BPD.  Unfortunately it's that simple.

If you want to understand better how a BPD thinks/reacts to emotions, check out some of the videos available on this site under Personality Disorders.  You need to realize no matter what you do, the BPD will flip a rational situation into an irrational response once their emotions get involved.  It's very hurtful and confusing for partners.  

Here is a sample of an overreaction I experienced. Fortunately I was able to get him to communicate his motive but I never would have guessed in a million years that is what he was mad about.

I went to Toys R Us for an errand.  45 minutes later he calls me and seems irritated I'm still there.  When I get home, he is angry and is stomping around the house.  I try to be compassionate and tell him “I understand you think it should only take me 20 minutes at Toys R Us, but I’m a big kid at heart and I got caught up in all the cool toys.  Are you sure this is about me taking too long shopping or are you afraid I’m doing something I shouldn’t be doing like cheating on you?”  (That I could actually kind of understand….)

The craziest part was that wasn’t his fear at all.  His response was “You don’t want to be with me so you are deliberately taking extra time at the store to avoid being around me.  If this is how it is going to be, then this needs to end.” I was devastated and I cried.  I couldn’t understand what I had done that was so awful that he didn’t want me anymore. Just a month ago, he proposed to me and I moved into our new home with him.

I didn't do anything wrong and there was no history of this in our relationship.  It came out of no where.  

This is a simple example but imagine 20-30 converstations down the road like this... .your thoughts get tangled in your own head and you can barely make sense of them anymore.  

[hellogoodbye2424]

Bunny, if you don't mind me asking how did everything play out with you and that individual?  After the TOYS-R-US incident was it over?  Or was it a cycle?  Did he ever get help?

[WoundedBibi]

Spot on bunny4523; we cannot rationally explain the behaviour.

Trying to, we are messing with our own heads.

(I would spend 45 minutes at Toys R Us too by the way   And I love playing video games  )

(Has anyone noticed that "disappointment" seems to be an important word for pwBPD? Or is it just me? My ex used it A LOT. And often to describe an emotion that went way beyond being disappointed.)

[hellogoodbye2424]

Yeah.  In any relationship you should be able to do things you want to do within reason.  Especially if the other person knows you get some enjoyment out of it. 

I really think her friend poisoned her thought process on Friday (after talking about me when I've told her this friend is NOT the person to talk to about me), and then her making up with her sister on Saturday sealed the deal.  Then she just decided to give me the silent treatment and act like this was such a hard thing to do... .it's stupid, how can ignoring someone be hard, unless you're doing it intentionally, and even then it shouldn't be that hard. 

She has come back countless times before, but it just feels different this time.  Maybe I've lost all respect for her, but I still care about her.

[bunny4523]

hellogoodbye2424,

I wish I could say that was enough for me and I left but I thought it was an isolated incident.  I had dated him for 8 months and had known him for 7 years. These behaviors didn't come out strong until after I moved in with him... .sold everything, furniture, beds, fridge, washer/dryer... .moved my son from a home we lived in for 7 years.  coincidence? I'm not sure... .

The Toys R Us was one of the first instances... .there were probably 25 more that followed in a short 3-4 month period.  More intense each time.  It just felt like it was getting worse and I couldn't even get a break to think about how to get out.  He began having the same reaction with anything I did, when I would spend time with my kids, my friends, my mom... .He even accussed me of deliberately walking out of a room when he walked in.  So even when there was no one around to be upset about, he found a reason to reject me.  I didn't give him enough eye contact, I don't talk enough... .all because he knows I don't really love him.  I had signed up for a half marathon and he blew up because I was running with other men.  My running partner was a female... .but yes there would be other men there.  All things that existed while we dated and were fine with him, all of a sudden were deal breakers.  We had passed the idealization phase and were smack into the devalueing phase, I just didn't understand that at the time. 

One day, he threw out the ulitmatimum of change or get out as he had done many times before and this time, I just said ok.  I was done. 

[bunny4523]

Hellogoodbye2424,

Sorry forgot to answer your question about him getting help.  We got into couples therapy after we had a few episodes.  He fought it, projecting everything onto me.  The therapist caught on and pulled me aside, told me he was not mentally healthy.  After 6-8 weeks or so, my BPD partner decided he didn't need to go anymore.  I kept going by myself and after I decided to end it, the therapist gave me the information regarding BPD that he suspected was the culprit.  That's when I made the connection.  My life for the last 12 months was right there in black and white.  From start to finish, the relationship only lasted one year.  8 months of it being good but looking back I can now see the signs of the BPD.  It's just hard to know if they are just having a bad day... .or month or if this is a serious issue.  After repeated episodes, it becomes much clearer.  The video on this site is great "Is it Borderline Personality Disorder" - Maybe it's more than just a bad day.

[roncarebear]

I sent you an offline message.  New to site.  Going through same thing on steriods.  My GF is now giving me the silent treatment from jail.  There are almost 7 billion people on this planet and I am the only one that visits, writes, answers her calls, or sends her money.  And she is giving me the ST because I am calling her out on her lies and distorted way she changes her history or story of what happened.  I know that is a coping mechanism for shame. but still can't she get past that and acknowledge her wrongs?  She begs me to have a future with her and when she is pissed I don't exist. 

How do I end the silent treatment?  Or just wait for her to do it?  And if she does end it how do I tell her what she is doing is toxic and destructive in a constructive way? 

Well, I am held hostage because I am holding on because I feel bad that she may spend 2 years in prison and has nobody.  Nobody to even guide her through BPD, which she doesn't understand.

At least you can see that your situation is just plain toxic?  She doesn't know what she wants... .she doesn't appreciate you... .you'll never know if she even loved you.  And what if she gets another supply source or date another person?  How would you feel? 

I would work on myself.  Workout.  Improve your life.  Understand that you are injured by her and you need to walk away from the radiation. 

[hellogoodbye2424]

Hi Ron, thanks for your message.  I don't think there is a way to end the silent treatment.  I wish I hadn't struggled, but that would make me not normal.  Normal people who have loving feelings for another will worry, and try to communicate.  When communication is shut-off it is either a defense mechanism (e.g. there's something they did that they don't want to discuss), or it is deliberately done to manipulate & hurt you. 

I do see that my situation is toxic, and it sounds like yours is too.  A caring relationship involves reciprocation of feelings and respect.  At the very least someone should respect you enough to communicate how they feel. 

The more I think about my situation the more I think she is intentionally doing it to hurt me.  She knows that name-calling and aggressive behavior isn't going to get her anywhere so she did this instead.  Ron, I also do think that she loved me, she just has mental problems.  The love was very very real.  We doubt that it could've been real because unthinkable, unfathomable things are done to us.  It's not because of you.  It's because of them.