Decision making question

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

If we keep joint legal decision making does he have a say on where daughter goes for preschool? The public schools in our area are horrible, 40% drop out rate. 12% of the school populations is considered homeless. Just not good. There is a private school right here that goes from 3 year old preschool to 12th grade. In my volunteer work around town I have met the Dean of this school. It is great, 0% drop out rate,some kids are graduating and going into Ivy League schools. They even teach Latin and Greek starting in 3rd grade.

    Our daughter isn't even old enough until next year to start, but I would like to explore this as an option. The tuition is only about $1,000 more a year than I am paying my part time sitter now, pretty crazy. And they have financial aid and you can volunteer for kids tuition. Our daughter isn't even two yet and already knows all the letters capital and lower case, is spelling small words like cat, dog, mom, her own name, knows even the difference between octagon and pentagon and hexagon, says four syllable words,calls all of the cashiers at our stores by name, we are already doing 3-5 year old workbooks at home,just so so smart. I don't want public school here to hold her back.  I have also had the unpleasantness of people treating her like she is weird when we have to stop in the store aisles for her to spell the words on a cereal box or point out that a door is a rectangle. She also tends to get very frustrated if we are in a rush and I don't give her the time to pull down boxes and cans and stuff. I try to always anticipate what she will do and give us time.

     I don't even expect ex to help pay for it. But I fear that he will put up a stink about anything I want or suggest. I am bringing daughter to the school in two weeks for an interview. If she is with me solely but we have joint decision making is this a decision he can interfere with? It seems to me like if a parent interfered with a child getting care they need for a disability or medical condition that would be abusive, but is it if they interfere with this?

   

[rarsweet]

If we keep joint legal decision making does he have a say on where daughter goes for preschool? The public schools in our area are horrible, 40% drop out rate. 12% of the school populations is considered homeless. Just not good. There is a private school right here that goes from 3 year old preschool to 12th grade. In my volunteer work around town I have met the Dean of this school. It is great, 0% drop out rate,some kids are graduating and going into Ivy League schools. They even teach Latin and Greek starting in 3rd grade.

    Our daughter isn't even old enough until next year to start, but I would like to explore this as an option. The tuition is only about $1,000 more a year than I am paying my part time sitter now, pretty crazy. And they have financial aid and you can volunteer for kids tuition. Our daughter isn't even two yet and already knows all the letters capital and lower case, is spelling small words like cat, dog, mom, her own name, knows even the difference between octagon and pentagon and hexagon, says four syllable words,calls all of the cashiers at our stores by name, we are already doing 3-5 year old workbooks at home,just so so smart. I don't want public school here to hold her back.  I have also had the unpleasantness of people treating her like she is weird when we have to stop in the store aisles for her to spell the words on a cereal box or point out that a door is a rectangle. She also tends to get very frustrated if we are in a rush and I don't give her the time to pull down boxes and cans and stuff. I try to always anticipate what she will do and give us time.

     I don't even expect ex to help pay for it. But I fear that he will put up a stink about anything I want or suggest. I am bringing daughter to the school in two weeks for an interview. If she is with me solely but we have joint decision making is this a decision he can interfere with? It seems to me like if a parent interfered with a child getting care they need for a disability or medical condition that would be abusive, but is it if they interfere with this?

   

[david]

If I was paying for it I would make the decision myself and let my ex know after everything was signed and finalized. At that point my ex would have to take me to court. The court would want a good reason for not going to the school. The most that would probably happen then is that the judge would yell at me. I've been yelled at so many times in court it doesn't phase me anymore especially since the courts agrees with what I was doing. I believe they do that to make the other party feel like they won something.

You can always explain that you didn't inform ex until after it was done because you feared ex would try to stop you. Since he dragged you into court your fear was reasonable.

[rarsweet]

It can't even happen until next year, but I would like to be able to plan it out financially, figure out whether I want to have my mom pick her up, or adjust my work schedule, and see what their expectations are and what we can work on until then. Once they are 7 than school is mandatory, but preschool and kindergarten here aren't. Right now she is with my mom until 3:30 and then a teenage neighbor for another hour until I get home. So it isn't any different hours than what she is doing right now. I would actually only do half days, 9-noon, or 3 full days, until kindergarten.

[GaGrl]

In your current circumstances, no - he should not have joint decision-making. He contributes nothing financially ( well, he buys diapers when he has her) and he is essentially homeless. You should not alleviate his guilt by offering joint decision-making only to have it come back to bite you later.

[livednlearned]

If we keep joint legal decision making does he have a say on where daughter goes for preschool?

Seems to be different depending on state laws, how they carve things up.

For me, yes, joint legal meant we both had to agree on anything to do with education.

Your state might have decision-making and tie-breaker status that can be added in. If so, you might share joint legal, and then having decision-making over education, for example. Courts seem more inclined to carve things up in ways where nothing feels quite like a win/loss situation, and yet draw boundaries in ways designed to minimize ongoing conflict.

Your ex seems so low-functioning that I might do what david suggested, and just do what you think is best, with the knowledge that your ex is not likely to actually do anything effective to stop the process. It is easy to feel intimidated by what can happen, yet in so many cases, it does seem like there are judges who recognize parents who are making a stink at the expense of doing what's best for the child. Plus, you mentioned before your ex can be coherent and disassociate during doctor appointments. The stress of court is probably not something that will make that behavior any better.

Putting your kid in a good school and not asking your ex to pay is something the court will likely back you up on, no matter what your custodial status might be.

[rarsweet]

In our Parenting Plan she goes to school in my district. That is clear. The private school and preschool issue is what gets me. This school is in my district, actually about a quarter mile from my house. And it is only mandated to start school in 1st grade here so I don't know if preschool would count. But I have to do something with her while I work, whether it is my mom, or a daycare, or a public or private preschool. It would make sense to agree to the best possible situation. Yes I know that sense is a foreign concept.

[ForeverDad]

If I had to answer, I'd agree that all school has the same handling in the Parenting Plan... .pre-school, private school or regular school.  But then I'm no lawyer and probably not in your state either.

In my county/state it is called Residential Parent for School Purposes.  When we had a temp order, the magistrate asked our work schedules and gave her temp custody and primary parent.  I got alternate weekends and opened my supposedly deep pockets.  She controlled schooling decisions, though the kindergarten teacher told me she wasn't allowed in the classroom.  That is why, at the end of the two year divorce, I stated I would settle only if I were the Residential Parent.  I've been glad I made that stand ever since.  Does your state have something like that?

If he's going to have limited visitation, then it's most likely you need to have at least Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  (Sole custody is relatively rare, judge don't want parents to feel the children were taken away, well, unless it is necessary.  After a long 2 year divorce and 3 years afterward in and out of court, I got sole custody.  They saw that was appropriate.)  In effect, those two options keep it joint custody in name but in practice you make the major decisions. You can't afford for him to get obstinate on something and then have to wait 6, 12 or 18 months for the court to sort it out.  If you had DM or TB you could proceed though he could still file trying to contest your decisions, not that anything would come of it.  Think of the toothless dog in that yard next door, nothing to worry about except the barking and being gummed.

You know, since these issues do touch on local legal terms and meanings, do you have a resource locally to ask your questions?  We can offer our experiences, tips, strategies and warnings but there's nothing like solid legal advice fitting your jurisdiction.  Or try asking local lawyers on avvo.com.

If you have a hearing coming up, stack up your questions in order of priority and ask the judge whether he will include the wording to walk out with what you need in the order?  While judges have limited time for each case, they ought to welcome thoughtful, problem solving questions.  Really, they'd prefer not to have repeat litigants!

[david]

Also, if he does take you to court make sure you have the facts and statistics on the school (drop out rates, classes offered, etc)

My ex enrolled our youngest in kindergarten. I thought we should wait another year until he matured more. I didn't think he was developmentally ready and should be in a pre k program instead. I tried to get ex to agree. That didn't work. In court, it was decided that since ex had more time than I did her decision would stand. That was the most important issue in court. The fact that I was a school teacher had no relevance according to the judge. He struggled and had to repeat kindergarten. Ex insisted he had a learning disability and had the school test him. Results were inconclusive but the school went along with ex's assessment. He was given an IEP. The school thought I was the problem back then. Finally, I found a teacher, in second grade, that saw what I was seeing. Had him retested ans he was placed in their accelerated program. He is in sixth grade and flourishing.

[livednlearned]

My ex and I had joint legal.

I had my son tested, and that earned him a 504 accommodation. He's labeled twice exceptional (gifted/LD).

Ex fought the 504 accommodations because he felt I acted unilaterally. You could argue the point on technicalities; the truth is that I was going to do what was best for S14. I reported what I was doing to ex, and he obstructed it the whole way based on pointless logic.

We ended up in court over this. Judge didn't say, "LnL, why are you acting unilaterally?" He said, "Mr. N/BPDx, why would you not want your child to have 504 services? He gets to take tests in a quiet room, he is allowed to use the computer instead of pencils, and he goes to a class with accelerated kids once a day." N/BPDx could only answer that I agreed to the tests, and met with the teachers, and accepted the 504 accommodations. Every step of the way he was invited into the process, and every step of the way he used those invitations to berate me instead of just show up and pay attention to his child.

Also, I proposed a solution in which N/BPDx could look into outside services for S14, and I would be amenable to any program he thought might help S14. Judge liked that because it showed I was willing to give N/BPDx a win.

N/BPDx did nothing about the outside services, and eventually lost legal custody because he tried to obstruct me for the sake of obstructing me, and that pattern was very apparent in court. He could never explain why he didn't want something for S14, other than to say that I was acting unilaterally.