Quiet BPD

[ShiningStar]

I am wondering if anyone here has information about "Quiet BPD".

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JRT]

Mine was a quiet (waif) pwBPD./... what would you like to know... .there is a lot of info here and elsewhere on them

[ShiningStar]

I am not sure what I want to know. My daughter believes she has quiet BPD and I notice there isn't much that I see here. But I am still finding my way around here. I am trying to understand what she is going through and how I can help her best. She is 19 and lives away from me and is struggling with all of the responsibilities. She felt suicidal at her job so had to quit and now she is afraid to find another job. She is doing self harm. And having trouble keeping friends. I worry about her having to manage everything on her own, but I also understand her desire to be independent.

I would appreciate any insight you can share. I know it is different for everyone. What helped you the most?

[lbjnltx]

Here is some info on the different ways BPD manifests in individuals based on the book by Dr. Christine Lawson:

BPD Behaviors: Waif, Hermit, Queen, Witch

[JRT]

I am not sure how much help that I can be... .my ex fiance was a quite borderline... .she raged inside but on occasion that raged was externalized... .she had a young adult son that she raged against constantly and who have become a dysfunctional mess unfortunately. Though very bright, just bare;ly graduated from High School under a special program for at risk kids. Interpersonal relationships were difficult for her and she routinely discarded her friends but later came back to them. At one point she moved to the opposite coast where she knew no one thinking this would help, it of course didn't.

At age 45, her longest romantic relationship was with me for a total of 2 years... .the next runner up was her marriage at 8 months and son on... .

Does this help at all?

[wendydarling]

Hi ShiningStar

I can understand your concern your daughter is at a distance and appreciate she values her independence.  What helped me the most?  That since my daughters diagnosis July 2015 she has been completely open to everyone about her disorder.  That allowed everyone in her life to learn about the disorder and support her recovery journey on a daily basis.  eg yesterday she struggled and texted me at work to say she has called her therapist for the first time (who talked her through her day) - so what she thought was a bad day turned out to be productive.  I was able to call her and validate her success which she really appreciated. 

My 27 year old daughter is a quiet borderline.  I say that because she does not rage externally. She is sociable and has very good friends who have stood by her during her recent darkest times.  My daughter is still at home and has been able to retain her job, though is in her first month of freelance work so she can give as much time to her medical appointments, skills group, therapy and some space to practise her skills.  So she has placed her recovery at the top of her priorities and everything else while still very important to her works round her core goal.

It sounds like your daughter communicates well with you.  Is she seeking or in treatment?

WDx

[ShiningStar]

WendyDarling, I saw your other reply first. What kind of work does your daughter do? My daughter feels like she'll never be able to work. And the projects she was interested in doing at home, she says she has lost interest in. I work from home, so I thought maybe she could do something that way, but I think motivation is difficult for her.

I am not completely sure it is best for her to come home... .I don't know if I help or enable her. I am glad to hear that your daughter is doing so well and it makes me feel better that she is home at 27, honestly. It is my sincere hope that my daughter will be open to treatment here where I can learn as well and help her get to her appointments. I feel, like you daughter, that the treatment needs to become top priority.

Right now her life is that she stays home and watches TV and sleeps and eats. I think she is starting to feel like she wants more than that. However, I have seen her live like that when she lived with me before she moved. And I wasn't really good at getting her motivated.

I am not sure how comfortable she will be coming home because I now live with my mom and my daughter and I would share a room. On the positive side, she would have her animals (2 dogs and 2 cats) and we live in an area where she could get to the beach easily and we could go to the city and she would be closer to her friends in our home town.

I feel like we are stepping out onto the possibility of some treatment. I am encouraged by her desire to understand what is going on with herself. Perhaps as she learns more, she will see the value and the need for treatment. Right now I think she identifies with the disorder and is afraid of losing that identity.

[ShiningStar]

JRT-Thank you for sharing about your ex... .I guess it shows me how far it could go if we leave it without treatment. I am hopeful that my daughter will find treatment to be a good way for her.

[Lollypop]

Hi shining star

Its great news that your daughter is learning about BPD and has started a blog. She sounds as if she's creative and this shows that she is motivated at least in one area of her life. You've said she's just sort of existing in her apartment and she's had some more recent problems with friendships where she's currently living. She's also lost her job. You must be very worried about her.

We supported our BPDs financially last year while he sorted out a room and looked for a job in a new town. This was following a summer romance and his gf went back to uni. His gf could see he has a problem with drugs and lovingly parted from him. He crashed and got himself to hospital after taking a load of pills. He got diagnosed and started dbt. But He just couldn't cope, was self harming and smoking a lot of dope etc. He lied and lied.  Realistically, he was never going to be able to create a new life for himself with no friends or family to support him, nor the skills. I can see this now.

We reached a point that we just couldn't afford to keep him there. Either he went homeless or returned home. We really didn't want him back but we were very scared of suicide. We encouraged him to come home not knowing how it all was going to work. He was very delicate and low. We felt there was no choice.

It's not ideal but relationships are improved by me learning here, reading, practising, understanding our priorities and his limitations. He is not seeking treatment and I won't force this issue; for it to work he needs to want it. I wait patiently, gently encourage it now and then, while I work on our priorities (stability in a loving environment, money management, family relationships with better communication). We've had ups and downs and my H is particularly struggling with it all. It's very difficult to not enable and not be co dependant while living in the same house. We did/do not give him any money or loans and he then had to seek work - it took 5 weeks.

I tried to force, maneouvre BPDs in seeking work, applying for benefits, treatment. I failed as I still hadn't learnt: any ideas and decisions must be his own. We've found a way forward. Bpds has found casual work that he is able to do. He is now paying us rent (timed after he was stable, working regularly). He has a girlfriend and it seems to be going ok. He problems are still there but at least he's not stuck any more. I can see him growing with my validation and seeing his own friends moving on with their lives. I'm hopeful. I'm trying to be the parent he needs.

I need to get him to live independently. I haven't got an exact date fixed in my mind, I'm hoping Jan-mar 17.  He's lived away three times before but now with a diagnosis I can see why he spirals downwards. He needs to be stable, working, able to manage his money as basics.

Obviously you have your own decisions to make. My situation is not yours and we are all feeling our way forward arming ourselves with the knowledge and skills we need. Your daughter has her own decisions to make. Her current situation can't go on forever unless you're paying her expenses?  If your daughter did return home do you have any plans on how long this might be for?

[wendydarling]

Hi ShiningStar

Yes, our daughters do sound similar - my daughter started a blog from her hospital bed early February. While it takes my breath away, she is completely honest, her hope gives me comfort and she feels less alone. PM me if you'd like me to send you the link.

I can understand your daughter feels like she'll never be able to work at the moment as her symptoms over ride - I have seen my daughter lose her confidence and motivation through the disorder though she has taught me it does not have to be forever.  I'm right at the beginning of reading Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach where she explains how many of us suffer from not feeling "good enough" ... . 

My daughter's symptoms ... .she is working to manage through DBT.

abandonment issues

splitting

unstable self-image or sense of self

impulsivity, addictions - spending (not had to bale her out, yet), alcohol, bulimia since 15 

suicidal behaviour over the last year, self harm since 15

anxiety, panic attacks, irritability   

feelings of emptiness

anger within

disassociates, hears voices ... .though not mentioned recently so I am now wondering if the meds help.

My daughter's job? Here's her journey, I hope you find it helpful. My daughter spent most of her childhood drawing and creating which she gained much enjoyment from. She somehow managed to get through her education, while hiding and struggling with her disorder.  She saw homework as her responsibility and asked for help when needed. At A level (16-18) she did Art, Photography and Communications.  Between 14-19 we spent many a happy weekend in the art galleries in London and she was a keen photographer. She applied for the one year art foundation course where you experience a variety modules and choose your path for degree level. I encouraged her to apply to some of the top London colleges saying she had nothing to lose though of course looking back she feared the rejection of not being good enough.  She was invited to show her portfolio at Chelsea College of Art and was accepted, it was her first choice!  She has always doubted her abilities. She did not see what we saw or hear our validation, or if she did it was fleeting 'splitting'. While she loved her year at Chelsea it was marred by a lecturer dismissing a painting of hers in front of the class ... .that was it 'split'... .she turned to film and photography. So she went on to do a degree in film and video ... .the confidence of the other students left her feeling anxious, she was not enjoying it. She considered packing it in - changing to another degree she saw that as failing and carried on.  In the last few months of the degree BPD was manifesting and she struggled thinking clearly, her anxiety was high and depression set in ... .she lost her written dissertation (failed to back it up on the PC) and had to re-write ... .I thought it was just the normal stress in the run up to the finals. I contacted the university and they helped support her through me those last few months. She felt unable to celebrate her graduation and attend the showing of her film at the British Film Institute. Should I have not supported her? Did she ask for help, yes. Is she happy I supported her, yes. Should I have allowed her to fail when she had succeeded on her own so far, possibly.

Exhausted by it all she spent the next year (she called it her 'gap year' working in the pub she had worked at during her uni years.  I was unaware she was heavily self medicating with alcohol, I'm sure there will have been other drugs over the years, but for now she is clear of alcohol attending alcohol sessions weekly which follows some of the DBT teachings. The pub she was frequented by those working in film and media and she was often offered work, she finally took up an offer with a small record label working on creative design - album covers, flyers, website, social media, signing up new bands, attending concerts - a wide variety of activities, she is currently editing a music video. She took Feb and most of March off due to her recent crisis and her employer suggested she go freelance for him and in time build a portfolio of clients.  She does need support in helping her set up, building confidence and taking it day by day, in small steps. The skills she learns from DBT will help her.  She is a motivated individual though when depression sets in it is so very debilitating. Her meds were changed last month to antipsychotic 20mg (lowest dose) following her crisis.  They seem to be working well, she has not suffered deep depression so far. 

I understand you are not completely sure it is best for your daughter to come home and if you help or enable her. My daughter is learning what self employment means for her - yes she is learning from others, a friend has helped her get organised with tax/national insurance etc - one could say she should be researching this herself on her own, that she's been enabled. It's important to recognise her decision to gain the diagnosis and recover is purely driven by her and I sincerely wish that for your daughter. If she decides to come home you might give thought to your boundaries and limits eg staying in bed watching TV.  I can see sharing a room is not ideal, have you considered her coming home as a 'visit' for an agreed length of time while she gets back on her feet and hopefully gain a diagnosis and into treatment. The diagnosis has set my daughter free, it has validated her feelings. I know everyone does not feel that though.

I'm glad you found us 

WDx





 

[ShiningStar]

WendyDarling,

I forgot to mention before that our daughters and our similarities extend even to the bath with the Lush bath balm and taking pictures of them... .It made me laugh to realize that one.

I am heading up to Portland to visit and assess the situation tonight and staying through Friday. It is my hope that she will agree to come home with me. I do expect it to be temporary for her. And she has her cats and our dogs here and we are close to the beach and so much more.

Thank you for sharing more and just keeping these lines of communication open. I will use some of the ideas as I formulate my approach. I just want her to come home before that suicide attempt. She doesn't really threaten to commit suicide, but rather talks about wanting to be dead. And it freaks her friends out.

She does recognize that she feels alone, and that she is not happy. And yet she told me she is not coming home. I checked into getting out of her lease if she chooses that and it seems doable. I will ask her why she wants to stay there. And ask how she sees it working if she still wants to stay. I will emphasize that it is temporary.

I spoke with a therapist today just in finding out what is available. She does DBT individually. My daughter seems to think DBT is difficult, based on what others have shared. But this therapist said she doesn't have to do it all and can take it at her own pace.

My daughter seems afraid of being diagnosed and her sister helped me understand a bit. It is that she identifies with these experiences and doesn't know who she would be without them. Did  your daughter feel that way?

The symptoms you shared are so similar to what my daughter. I haven't heard of "splitting" but I think I understand what it is. My daughter is doing self harm. I think a lot of her anger is about her father and his wife who has been unkind to her in the past.

My daughter is also an artist and has some designs on sites such as Society6 and RedBubble. We both thought she would do more now that she wasn't working, but she has lost motivation. And she is a photographer as well. Her photos are stunning.

She doesn't want to go to college, it is very difficult for her. She did one year of junior college and took art and dance classes but it was still a bit stressor. She wanted to just work and live independently. And now we were talking last night about the emotional cost of that.

I really feel like she does want my help, but is afraid of leaning on me somehow. I am hopeful that we will have some really good conversations and some fun together as we figure out her next step.

I'll keep you posted. I don't know if I can get this forum on my phone, but I will see what I can do. Might be able to use a computer at the hotel... .

This site has been so helpful already and I have only watched a few videos and talking to you is priceless. Thank you for being here.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[ShiningStar]

Lollypop,

Thank you for sharing more about your son. It is helpful for guiding me. It is my hope to guide my daughter away from the suicide attempt... .maybe getting some help before we get there. Your son's story is more confirmation for me to bring her home. I have supported her for the past 2 months while she lives on her own without working.

As much as she enjoys her independence, she is alone and I think she is really scared. Too anxious to go out by herself--even to get food. So I am offering support if she comes home. I am not sure I can be heavy handed and say that I won't cover her expenses if she refuses... .but we'll see how it plays out. I do agree it should be her decision. I just hope she comes around to the avenue of her safety. No one feels that she is safe staying alone in an environment of fear and depression.

Thank you for being here. It makes me feel better knowing that you and wendydarling are here in support. Wish me luck on my journey this week. I leave tonight and hope to see her tonight. Then I'll be there until Friday. I hope to be driving her home before that... .I am visualizing the best solution with grace and ease for all of us.

I wish you all the best with your son as he finds his way in this world. I believe we are all here for a reason. And that reason can be just to exist. So as long as we are alive, we are meeting that purpose.

Sending love to you, my new friend.