Now she wants to be friends? At least as long as I don't bring anything up.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So. She contacted me through Facebook after blocking me after I raised the question about her responsibility regarding the financial mess she left this family in (my partner left us and the country to go live in her country of origin from one day to another a few weeks ago. She took our savings with her).

Declarations of eternal love once again. She will always love me and the kids (not her children). One minute she says everything is just like before only that she left (like thinking we are in a long distance relationship now which we are not according to me). Next minute she tells me I need to move on (I did.). Then she tells me she wants to be friends and that I have PROMISED her we would always be friends no matter what (I might have at some point years ago but it is nothing I remember).

Then I said if we are going to cultivate a friendship i the future there are some issues we need to address: the financial mess and also her taking her share of the responsibility for the emotional mess I and the children are left to deal with. Then she ends the discussion saying friends does not bring up what's in the past. In my world friendship comes after closure and mutual responsibility and honesty about things that has happened. I am not accusing. I am only trying to speak about MY feelings and thoughts for once and I hoped that she would at least validate them.

What does she really want from me? Friendship, a continuing of a dysfunctional relationship but now long distance or to "move on"? All three things expressed within 10 minutes of a conversation.

What she DOESN'T want is to be reminded of or take ANY responsibility for things that happened.

About the money matter: she says she will send checks to repay what she owes me (I believe it when I see it) but not as a lump sum but a little each month under the condition that I a) don't bring up ANYTHING that might upset her and B) absolutely NOT find a new partner (I am not even looking, sheesh!). And this just tells me she wants to control me through the money. The money SHE took and ran off with knowing I have to struggle to keep the house and feed the kids.

Everything gets twisted. When I bring something up she turns it around and says SHE had to leave because I had so many issues and that me bringing up "what's in the past now" proves that I am the one with issues.

I do miss her. And I would like to be friends with a person I shared several years with IF we could sort things out in an honest way. It would be good for the children too to stay in touch. But something tells me it will never work out. Is no contact the only option? Why does she have to twist things around and still try to control me? And what does she really want? Friendship? To continue the relationship long distance (I don't want that and I have been very honest about that)? Or "move on" with no contact (which she expresses every time I express something that she doesn't like to hear)?

Her family tells me please not to upset her because she gets so angry and they have to deal with it. They are back to trying not to rock the boat. They are walking on egg shells. She runs the family again and expects them to wait hand and foot for her. Why don't they see it?

Any reflections?

[Fogclearing]

So. She contacted me through Facebook after blocking me after I raised the question about her responsibility regarding the financial mess she left this family in (my partner left us and the country to go live in her country of origin from one day to another a few weeks ago. She took our savings with her).

Declarations of eternal love once again. She will always love me and the kids (not her children). One minute she says everything is just like before only that she left (like thinking we are in a long distance relationship now which we are not according to me). Next minute she tells me I need to move on (I did.). Then she tells me she wants to be friends and that I have PROMISED her we would always be friends no matter what (I might have at some point years ago but it is nothing I remember).

Then I said if we are going to cultivate a friendship i the future there are some issues we need to address: the financial mess and also her taking her share of the responsibility for the emotional mess I and the children are left to deal with. Then she ends the discussion saying friends does not bring up what's in the past. In my world friendship comes after closure and mutual responsibility and honesty about things that has happened. I am not accusing. I am only trying to speak about MY feelings and thoughts for once and I hoped that she would at least validate them.

What does she really want from me? Friendship, a continuing of a dysfunctional relationship but now long distance or to "move on"? All three things expressed within 10 minutes of a conversation.

What she DOESN'T want is to be reminded of or take ANY responsibility for things that happened.

About the money matter: she says she will send checks to repay what she owes me (I believe it when I see it) but not as a lump sum but a little each month under the condition that I a) don't bring up ANYTHING that might upset her and B) absolutely NOT find a new partner (I am not even looking, sheesh!). And this just tells me she wants to control me through the money. The money SHE took and ran off with knowing I have to struggle to keep the house and feed the kids.

Everything gets twisted. When I bring something up she turns it around and says SHE had to leave because I had so many issues and that me bringing up "what's in the past now" proves that I am the one with issues.

I do miss her. And I would like to be friends with a person I shared several years with IF we could sort things out in an honest way. It would be good for the children too to stay in touch. But something tells me it will never work out. Is no contact the only option? Why does she have to twist things around and still try to control me? And what does she really want? Friendship? To continue the relationship long distance (I don't want that and I have been very honest about that)? Or "move on" with no contact (which she expresses every time I express something that she doesn't like to hear)?

Her family tells me please not to upset her because she gets so angry and they have to deal with it. They are back to trying not to rock the boat. They are walking on egg shells. She runs the family again and expects them to wait hand and foot for her. Why don't they see it?

Any reflections?

[Fogclearing]

I know all persons has their view of a series of events that led to for example the ending of a relationship, but still - with and adult - shouldn't it be possible to at least find some common ground? And that also the NON's view is respected and validated?

[Sunfl0wer]

Wow, so sorry you are in this situation.  Sounds devastating for you and the kids.

What does she really want from me?

It sounds like she wants contact with you, under her conditions.  It also sounds like she reserves the right to change these conditions at any moment.  Also that the conditions do not ever need to adhere to any rational thought. 

How can anyone rational deal with these terms?

I am still trying to process the fact that she stole your money?

Then wants to tell you under what conditions you can earn it back?

Oh gosh, just so sorry!,

[once removed]

I know all persons has their view of a series of events that led to for example the ending of a relationship, but still - with and adult - shouldn't it be possible to at least find some common ground? And that also the NON's view is respected and validated?

BPD is often referred to as a persecution complex. at the root of the disorder, is often an invalidating home environment. each mention of the past (her actions) trigger deep shame that is frantically avoided, with several complex, deeply ingrained defense mechanisms. is it realistic that she will respect and validate your view, or own what shes done? probably not.

Sunfl0wer sums it up pretty well. she wants contact under her conditions which may change with zero notice.

Is no contact the only option? Why does she have to twist things around and still try to control me? And what does she really want? Friendship? To continue the relationship long distance (I don't want that and I have been very honest about that)? Or "move on" with no contact (which she expresses every time I express something that she doesn't like to hear)?

the fact that her family is asking you not to upset her because she will blow up at them, and are walking on eggshells (asking you to do the same), is very telling. no contact is not the only option. but limited, or controlled contact require a lot of emotional distance, boundaries, and realistic expectations, among other things. its not easy, and it will not be an adult, give and take friendship. what does she really want? to avoid experiencing abandonment. everything about her conditions, of both the friendship, and how she supposedly intends to return the money, are attempts to control what she is experiencing.

it always helps to refer to the ten beliefs that can keep us stuck: https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf

[Fogclearing]

"Sunfl0wer sums it up pretty well. she wants contact under her conditions which may change with zero notice. "

Yes, that is what I suspect too. I also suspect that if I give her my friendship - despite everything that's happened- (I miss her wit and humor and a lot of other things) she would easily discard the friendship when she found my replacement. And that would hurt me. She discarded the friendship she had with her ex when she met me and it didn't matter that I encouraged her to stay in contact with the puzzled ex who accepted friendship only (I am NOT the jealous type) because in her life there is only room for the person she is currently in love with to the brink of obsession. And that would feel like another break up for me.

It is like she cannot see that I have a heart that can hurt too. She asked me why I was a bit stand offish in my communication with her and I said because I hurt. Her instant response was: What about me? Don't you think I am hurting?

[Ahoy]

"Sunfl0wer sums it up pretty well. she wants contact under her conditions which may change with zero notice. "

Yes, that is what I suspect too. I also suspect that if I give her my friendship - despite everything that's happened- (I miss her wit and humor and a lot of other things) she would easily discard the friendship when she found my replacement. And that would hurt me. She discarded the friendship she had with her ex when she met me and it didn't matter that I encouraged her to stay in contact with the puzzled ex who accepted friendship only (I am NOT the jealous type) because in her life there is only room for the person she is currently in love with to the brink of obsession. And that would feel like another break up for me.

It is like she cannot see that I have a heart that can hurt too. She asked me why I was a bit stand offish in my communication with her and I said because I hurt. Her instant response was: What about me? Don't you think I am hurting?

Think about friendship for a minute. I'm talking REAL and honest friendship. Does this person honestly tick any of your pre-requisite boxes for friendship?

Will being her 'friend' allow you to healthily move on from this whole mess, for you and your children?

If you were told everything by a friend asking you for this exact advice, what would you be suggesting? I have a feeling I know your answer.

[once removed]

I also suspect that if I give her my friendship - despite everything that's happened- (I miss her wit and humor and a lot of other things) she would easily discard the friendship when she found my replacement. And that would hurt me. She discarded the friendship she had with her ex when she met me and it didn't matter that I encouraged her to stay in contact with the puzzled ex who accepted friendship only (I am NOT the jealous type) because in her life there is only room for the person she is currently in love with to the brink of obsession. And that would feel like another break up for me.

this is a real possibility and its good that youre considering it as you proceed. dont stick your neck or heart on the line, whatever you do.

It is like she cannot see that I have a heart that can hurt too. She asked me why I was a bit stand offish in my communication with her and I said because I hurt. Her instant response was: What about me? Don't you think I am hurting?

it is difficult to show empathy to others when we are consumed by our own pain (her). its invalidating (to us) when we express our hurt to others and they place their own hurt above ours as if its a competition. this is who she is, and it is selfish, and it is immature, but it is reality. i have a friend (non PD) who does it frequently; its exhausting, i know.

please allow me to offer some unsolicited advice:

i wont tell you whether or not to continue contact with her, or friendship, or whatever your goal is. but if you are going to have contact with her, i strongly encourage you to keep the emotional distance i referred to. be somewhere between boring and non emotional. she will pick up on this (she already did) and she will inquire (she already did) and she may act out to provoke a reaction from you. dont give her that reaction.

any semblance of a friendship will take time to develop, and will not happen over night when everything is raw for both parties, so if thats your goal, i encourage you not to force it, or to treat her with the expectations you would have with another friend. if you can emotionally handle light contact, and it aids in or doesnt hinder your recovery, more power to you, but all bets are off right now and there are no clear loyalties. pain is a real risk. all of this is your decision, and i hope what i offer can inform it.

one other note: personally i would write off the money. i spent a couple of months trying to force the exchange of belongings (small stuff compared to what she took from you) and it only kept me stuck and attached. this could play out in lots of ways, for a long period of time, and its about more than the money or repaying it. i wouldnt mention it again. i wouldnt take the bait if she mentions it again. if she wants to send it to you, great, i understand finances are tough right now. its unlikely, not impossible, to happen.

[Fogclearing]

Many good points.

Don't know why I would like to be friend with her honestly. Maybe it's withdrawal symptoms.

[once removed]

maybe. those will get better

[Fogclearing]

so she is chatting with me now. I feel numb. And I am very boring. she says her "little family in X-country" (that is me and my kids) could not provide for her the security she needed so she had to fly away to the security of her family. 50+ years old. Now they wait hand and foot for her.

[Fogclearing]

I loved her so much. Now I am just numb. She is trying to provoke feelings. Positive or negative doesn't seem to matter. And still I don't have it in me just to log out. Just a few weeks ago she was here telling me she loved me (and hated me). weird.

[Fogclearing]

Finally got out of the conversation. It was mainly about her complaining over her dull and boring life in a small studio apartment her family set her up in (well, she could have lived in our big house in the country side in a beautiful pastoral setting with fields and roe deer) and her ongoing list of physical problems. She is a typical waif who spent the past year in my house in bed complaining over pains and other problems that made her bed ridden (until the day she got out of bed, got a cab and went to the airport without even limping like she had done before). The funny thing is that I made appointments with different specialist doctors but she always cancelled the appointments in the last minute. She got an appointment for an mri because of complaining over back pain (that made it impossible to clean the house but never to have sex) but she refused to take it referring to claustrophobia. So the doctor sent a referral to a special clinic in another city for an open mri. She had three appointments in a row there. Cancelled every one of them in the last minute. Appointment for psychiatrist. Best reviewed psychiatrist in our part of the country. Private practitioner with few openings for an appointment but I got him to prioritize her. She cancelled in the last minute. Obesity because of binge eating and not active life style. We managed to get an appointment for dietician and for obesity surgery. Cancelled in the last minute. And now all I get is her list of complaints. She never wanted a solution to the health problems. She now complains to me over everything that is wrong with the same lines I've heard a thousand times like a record on repeat: "Give me doctor Kevorkian", "They shoot horses, don't they", "Whyyyyy me?". Never once asked about me or the kids or how we are doing. Good thing I noticed this. Now I am angry. But where did the wonderful woman I once met go? I think it is the memory of her I am stuck in.

[Moselle]

Think about friendship for a minute. I'm talking REAL and honest friendship. Does this person honestly tick any of your pre-requisite boxes for friendship?

Spot on Ahoy!

When mine asked to be friends, I said. "I have many friends. None of them commit fraud, betray me, or physically abuse me. I'm going to keep it that way, therefore No, I cannot be a friend, we are co-parents"

[Fogclearing]

Think about friendship for a minute. I'm talking REAL and honest friendship. Does this person honestly tick any of your pre-requisite boxes for friendship?

Spot on Ahoy!

When mine asked to be friends, I said. "I have many friends. None of them commit fraud, betray me, or physically abuse me. I'm going to keep it that way, therefore No, I cannot be a friend, we are co-parents"

Good one! And I don't even have to co-parent with her!

[once removed]

it sounds to me like understanding and experience is aiding you in recovery, and lessening your emotional attachment, would you agree? it sounds like youre not engaging and not reacting (to her) with emotion/feelings. youre angry (privately), and that is a part of the grieving process. it can be used productively.

its interesting you mention her ailments that seemed to have disappeared. our article on how a relationship with a pwBPD makes reference to such ailments that come and go, and that in retrospect you may notice that they waxed and waned depending on your level of attention.

thats not to suggest theyre not real, or that theyre psychosomatic, i wouldnt know and im hardly in a position to say, only that i experienced similar myself. it does become exhausting.

[Fogclearing]

it sounds to me like understanding and experience is aiding you in recovery, and lessening your emotional attachment, would you agree? it sounds like youre not engaging and not reacting (to her) with emotion/feelings. youre angry (privately), and that is a part of the grieving process. it can be used productively.

its interesting you mention her ailments that seemed to have disappeared. our article on how a relationship with a pwBPD makes reference to such ailments that come and go, and that in retrospect you may notice that they waxed and waned depending on your level of attention.

thats not to suggest theyre not real, or that theyre psychosomatic, i wouldnt know and im hardly in a position to say, only that i experienced similar myself. it does become exhausting.

Yes. It is very exhausting. I don't question she is in pain, but she is not motivated to do anything to make it better like to exercise or eat better or comply with treatment of any kind. And it always got worse if someone else was in need of care like when the kids had the flu. I also wondered why a grown woman would voluntarily spend her days on her back in bed calling for favors from me or the kids (get me this, get me that, I want supper in the bedroom. Bring it for me) while I was working trying to save my business AND taking care of the household (with help from the kids). So even if there is a grain of truth in her being in pain she definitely used it to manipulate and to get rid of responsibilities.

Anger (kept to myself) will probably help me detach and eventually heal but there is also so many setbacks where I am sucked into missing her. The woman I once met years ago.

[Fogclearing]

And I do miss her sweet side that she also kept to the end. I miss it terribly.

How could she hold me through the night the last night and then wake up with a different look on her face the next morning and just leave?

Going through a lot of emotions. That's why I don't want to open up when she wants to communicate. If I do she will be sweet and I start to miss her forgetting about all the crap just to feel the sweet side of her again. And I know I will be hurt.

[Turkish]

Now I am angry. But where did the wonderful woman I once met go? I think it is the memory of her I am stuck in.

What do you think of the 10 Beliefs article om posted in Reply#3?

The wonderful woman I remember went away. Then she came back... .when she needed something from me. Seeming to switch personalities is a dysfunctional coping mechanism. It's survival to a pwBPD, and all that they know. Her family may be making her unhappy (as if they, or anyone else were responsible for her happiness), so she's reaching out to you. Her self-absorption is triggering your anger. My T referred to it as a "compartmentalized" personality.

The key to our health and detachment is to not get caught up in the swing of idelization/devaluation.

[Ahoy]

Now I am angry. But where did the wonderful woman I once met go? I think it is the memory of her I am stuck in.

You sir have hit the nail on the head!

Jerry made a post this week asking what you would do/feel if you were back in a relationship right now knowing what you do now.

My guts quickly twisted up because I knew in my heart of hearts that there is NO WAY I would be happy being back with her in any capacity. She lied and betrayed me, god knows what else she lied about over our 4 years too. The relationship would not be healthy and I would be living to serve her needs.

What this quickly made me realise is that all of my despair/hurt/pity-party style feelings relate to the loss of fantasy and the loss of my dreams of a perfect life.

Realising that I now 100% don't want to be with this person helps me detach, but more importantly, when I do think silly thoughts, I can now identify I'm living in a fantasy land and snap myself out of it.

[AndrewS]

I had the same dilemma over and over, she wants to be all friendly and nice but as soon as I mention ANYTHING she doesn't like goes into twisted weirdness and spouts all sorts of contorted things I did wrong, have wrong with me, did to hurt her, lose her trust etc. So I ask why in God's name would she want to be friends with me if I did all that? I certainly don't want to be friends with someone who thinks that of me.

[Fogclearing]

I had the same dilemma over and over, she wants to be all friendly and nice but as soon as I mention ANYTHING she doesn't like goes into twisted weirdness and spouts all sorts of contorted things I did wrong, have wrong with me, did to hurt her, lose her trust etc. So I ask why in God's name would she want to be friends with me if I did all that? I certainly don't want to be friends with someone who thinks that of me.

I know! Exactly like this. Some of here accusations that she repeats over and over are nothing but fantasies. She claims she fell on the driveway when she left and that I stood there and did nothing to help her. When I responded that a) she did not fall on the ground - she tripped but regained her balance and b) I asked her if she needed help and she responded with a tirade of curse words she says I am gaslighting. Next time she brought this up in response to something I said that she didn't like she had expanded the story and in this version my kids stood there next to me watching and laughing as she fell. If me and my kids are that disturbed and mean - why is she insisting that we should all keep in touch and that she wants us all to visit her over there? And why is she so terrified that I would meet a new woman one day?

You know, buddy. When they realize we don't buy into this crap anymore I think their "deep friendship dreams" will mysteriously fade away... .If not sooner than when they meet our replacements. Getting cynical now.

[AndrewS]

You're not cynical, you are right. Mine already has a replacement and he is a moron, but she will find him easier to manipulate :-) It just hurts knowing he is getting all the attention now and after all the work and support I gave I get nothing.