I've decided to do it... Damn the torpedos

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I finally decided to divorce my BPD wife. Together since 1994, married in 1999. She cheats on me while in California to see family. I've finally realized that her affair had NOTHING to do with impulse control. It's takes time to take each other's clothes off and hop in the sack. That's a choice!

By the way, the affair lasted 2 months!

What do ya think about them apples?

[Grego63]

I finally decided to divorce my BPD wife. Together since 1994, married in 1999. She cheats on me while in California to see family. I've finally realized that her affair had NOTHING to do with impulse control. It's takes time to take each other's clothes off and hop in the sack. That's a choice!

By the way, the affair lasted 2 months!

What do ya think about them apples?

[snowmonkey]

Awesome choice!

Now, the hard bit... .how to keep you healthy and moving forward?

From my own experience and what I've read in many, many posts the battle for you has only just begun.

Have you decided to go NC? What support mechanisms do you have around you?

[formflier]

Grego63,

I'm a retired Navy guy, so I love the torpedo reference.

And, I can tell you like movies with the apple line.  We are going to get along well!.

I've got some questions.

How long has it been since you made this choice?

Have you followed "choosing a path" on the right side of the screen?  It won't "give you an answer" but it will be a good process to organize your thoughts and feelings.

I'm glad you are here.  We can help you sort out where your r/s is going.  (r/s is relationship, OBTW)

FF

[Grego63]

Snowmonkey, we have kids so a NC will not be possible.

[Grego63]

Formflyer: I have been leaning towards the decision to divorce for a month or so. We've been in counseling for 6 weeks. I was able to put up with most, if not all of her issues, including ADD until she cheated. BTW, here is a synopsis. Also, I believe that she is going thru perimenopause, as if I need any extra stuff to deal with.

My wife and I have been together since 1994, married since 1999. Two kids, etc. We've always had a high conflict marriage, multiple breakups and reunions, but had good times along with the bad. The last 5 years though have been Hell on her and me both. She is 49, I'm 52.

She had childhood trauma and her dad was not around at all while she was growing up. We also lost a child in 2010. Moreover, I believe she has been experiencing perimenopause for the last few years. I also think that she has BPD, or bipolar issues, or depression, or a mix and match of all these things. She has always seemed attracted to men for attention but I really never thought much of it (Daddy issues)? She can be very loving or quite mean, at a moments notice. Since 2012 or so she's seemed depressed and worse than ever. She will not seek treatment. I'm usually the focus of all out ills and the bad guy. I've not been the best husband and have been emotionally distant, not good about taking her on "date nights", etc.

So, for the last 5 yeas or so she's emotionally distanced herself from me, fought with our college age son, and thinks that our young daughter (14) doesn't need her any longer. She has often taken trips to see her sisters and party in another city (5 hours away) without me, and sometimes with kids. She has also done things that have made me think she has been cheating. You know. that list of 10 things to look for... .

FAST FORWARD to August 2015. She tells me that she is going to see family in California, her dad specifically. The timing seemed odd though because our daughter started her first day of high school one day before my wife left.

So after 3 weeks or so she said she was ready to come home, but then a relative passed so she wanted to go to that funeral. Then after that her sister offered her money to fix up a house. Then, she missed my sons birthday, then Halloween, etc. But, she assured me she would be home by Thanksgiving. Well, nope, she stayed there and me and the kids had Thanksgiving by ourselves. Throughout all this I noticed that she became even more distant with me right after the funeral. Then I started noticing a lot of text to a lot of people, especially to one certain number. In early November I called her out and demanded an explanation. She said he was a friend who she met at the funeral and that he was helping with the house remodel. I believed her.

Then, just 5 days before Christmas she came home, finally. But... .She was angry, cranky, irritable, at everyone, but especially with me.

I noticed at she seemed secretive with her phone and I stared suspecting things, of course she denied that anything was up.

Well, it all came to a head ON CHRISTMAS NIGHT... .I told her that I know that's she's cheating and that I'm divorcing her. She went nuts, broke frames pictures on the wall and hit me with a liquor bottle. She was beyond nuts. ((BAD TIMING)). My son took my daughter to his place to get her out of the house. My wife's sister and kids took off too. We were alone in the house.

I had to know the truth... .

I knew she would not break and tell the truth, so I gambled and called the phone number that she called and texted the most. Over a course of a few months she sent about 3,000 texts and called this number about 100 times. I researched on google and the pay background sites and got his name, etc. she told his professional, his normal work hours, etc, before all this erupted.

Well, I called the number, no answer. I then texted him and told him who I was, and that it would behoove him to pick up, because many of his calls and texts to my wife were made while he wason duty. He is a LAPD cop.


Finally he answered my calls and I started in on him. Guess what, he folded like a cheap tent in the wind and confessed everything. I mean EVERYTHING.

He told me that they met at a funeral on Oct 9th, and that it started innocently enough, but led to emotional feelings then sex on/around Oct 20th. So they had this affair from Oct 20th thru Dec 19th.

After we hung up I confronted her. She curled up on the couch like a baby, but would not admit to it. Then I went to bed, she followed, and wanted sex I guess. She was as complaint as a baby.

The next day I finally got her to admit it. Over the next few days she told me more things, but not all the details. Over time, weeks and months, I figured out the rest.

1. He was married with kids too.

2. He filled her many emotional needs that I did not.

3. He was very submissive to her, fulfilling needs at her command.

4. He is in the Air Force reserves, and HE TOOK HER TO THE AIR FORCE BALL in Nov

5. He took my wife to his apartment on Thanksgiving while his wife/kids were out of town

6. My wife's sister and her friends knew all about it, and condoned it.

7. My wife excessively texted and hung out wth the thugs in the neighborhood (they smoke pot and drink all the time)

8. There are so may phone calls and texts to people who I have no clue as to their identity

9. She used multiple secret messaging apps like Text Now, Google hangouts, Skype, Google voice, etc., to hide her activity after I confronted her in early November

10. She covered this all up with the most convincing lies known to man. (The lying... .Yes, the lies are the worst part of this. She was so convincing).

So, now I have had to go and re-examine my whole life with her and I think that I'm going to divorce her. At one time she was strong enough to be a good woman, but now she cannot resist whatever is inside of her driving her to do these things. Her friends and family are shocked that she would cheat. But,ne'er younger sister blurted out "You have problems, you are becoming just like Mom, you need help".

THAT's when it dawned on me this not just a bad temper, not just perimenopause, but it may be some type of mental illness. Maybe BPD, maybe something worse.

So, I'm stuck with these haunting questions... .

1. How could she cheat on me?

2. How could she stay so long away from us, especially my 14 year old daughter?

3. How can I stay with her after the cheatings, and the rest of the crap?

4. How can I help her, she won't accept any psychiatric evaluations?

[ForeverDad]

1. How could she cheat on me?

Cheating has happened throughout history, by both men and women, some mentally ill, many not.  It was her choice to start and her choice to continue.  She had been drifting away for some time, right?  People and PwBPD with Black|White, All|Nothing thinking tend to blacklist the old/ended relationship and idolize the prospect of a new relationship.  It is a mindset that is a slow motion train wreck hard to watch or change.  The trust a marriage needs is not just broken, it's shattered.

2. How could she stay so long away from us, especially my 14 year old daughter?

Many people with BPD and other acting out disorders are extremely attached to their children, whether for control or validation of themselves.  Others are more concerned with adult relationships and drift away from parenting.  Which general group do you think describes your spouse best or mostly?  However, there doesn't have to be a clear line of distinction.

3. How can I stay with her after the cheatings, and the rest of the crap?

Knowing that it could happen again, the trust would be hard to rebuild.  It is your choice how to deal with her choices.  You don't have to accept her back, infidelity is a historical basis to end a marriage.  It's your choice to ponder.  One factor to consider is whether there is any trust left to rebuild.  Also, is this a tough learning experience for her or will she just go back to doing what she did before, drifting away, blaming you the old and seeking to favor/idolize others the new?

4. How can I help her, she won't accept any psychiatric evaluations?

She's unlikely to listen to you, your close relationship of marriage has so much impact on her that she can't or won't listen to you though all the emotional baggage of the relationship.  While you could support her as she worked on herself in meaningful therapy, you can't help her do it.  She would have to want to get herself improved, you setting conditions may have little long term impact.

Likely she's been heading this way for a long time, there are no quick fixes for her.  If she's refusing to see counselors or therapists then odds are the Denial is still there and no real progress would be made on her own or even with you prodding her.

What do you think the next 5, 10 or 20 years will be like?  Do you have confidence in that?  How do you want them to be?  What do you think it will take to get the better outcome?

[JQ]

Hi Greg,

I see your fairly new here with a handful of post so let me be one of the first to say Welcome to the group!  By nature we are anonymous and because we are it should be easier to tell us things you wouldn't normally, so you can confide in the "Group" here.  Here you'll find no one to judge you ... .because in one way or another we have been or in some cases some are still where you're at in the relationship. Know that you're not alone in your frustration. I would encourage you to read the references at the top to begin your journey with what is BPD under the tab Personalty Disorders.  Then move on to the tool tab to learn some of the tools you'll need to manage a relationship with a s/o regardless of the direction it goes. I would also encourage you read the references to the right Under lessons ------------------------------------->> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>

I would encourage you to seek out a really good therapist that knows about BPD so that you can work through your thoughts, feelings, emotions, anxiety & frustrations.  BPD is a VERY serious Cluster B mental illness that will continue to test your limits on all levels. I know that you're a very patient man being with someone who has BPD for a lot of years and I really commend you for that. I know just how hard it's had to be over all those years and the toll it's taking on you ... .mind, body & soul. I know you're tired, mentally & physically exhausted and are looking for some help, some guidance ... .you're looking for a hand to help you up. You've come to the right place.

It's hard to understand how & what BPD does to people ... .not only to themselves but the loved ones that are collateral damage ... .

Borderline personality disorder is one of the most contentious of all the personality disorders. Evidence of structural and functional deficit in brain areas central to regulation, attention and self-control, and executive function have been described in BPD. Whatever your intention is you'll need to learn a whole new language of BPD such as gas lighting, splitting, painted black, painted white, triangulation, engulfment, abandonment, invalidation, deregulation, projection, shaming, triggering and the list goes on. The references to the right of the page can help you understand her behaviors and assist with all things BPD. I would also encourage you to read books like, "stop walking on eggshells", " I hate you ... .don't leave me" and "the Human Magnet Syndrome" ... .which you should be able to find at your local library or online.

You describe some of the basic behavior of BPD in your short post.   I'm sure you've seen her rage, or throw temper tantrums like a 3 yr old toddler and if you look at past events of hers I imagine you can see similar behavior traits of a 3 yr old. That's common ... .you're were going to have to remain the adult in the relationship if you stayed.  Just as a 3 yr old will test your limits in the grocery store before you enforce your boundaries of "don't touch" so it will be the same with your BPDw. She feels as if she needs to be in control of any situation and if you step up and try to wrestle "control" from her then you will see the rage of a toddler unleash as you have hinted at. 

NOTHING about BPD has or WILL makes logical sense to you ... .or anyone of us for that matter.  But you'll learn all of that on your journey ... .it's why you should seek out a therapist with a lot of BPD experience to assist you on your journey ... .to guide you on your journey of self discovery. You can't change someone with BPD ... .but you can learn about yourself on your journey which is the most important part. 

Like most of those on this sight we've come to learn we are a codependent ... .we are the Knight in Amor protecting those who can't protect themselves. We are the Sheriff in the White hat riding in to save the day. We are the perfectionist who work so very hard to make things right so that we can live a happy life ... .because if everything is right with our BPD s/o ... .then there will be no reason to rage ... .there will be no reason for Mr. Hyde to come out.  The good news is ... .that once we're self aware of  our behavior we can learn and adjust it ... .to take care of ourselves and our needs. You'll learn about the 51% rule ... .it's ok to give of yourself to someone else ... .but you should keep 51% of your energy to making yourself happy in life. If your giving more the 51% of yourself in any relationship ... .eventually you'll run out of energy ... .you'll be tired ... .exhausted ... .you've given everything you have ... .mind, body & soul ... .and it's hard to recover from. From the sounds of things that's where you currently are ... .as promised ... .someone will be here to hold out a hand to help you up ... .and dust you off ... .straighten you up ... .now it's up to you to continue your journey ... .we can't and won't tell you what to do ... .but we will support you in whatever direction you want to go.  Doing the right thing

I just want to give you some additional information on what BPD is defined as ... .you might already have this information ... .but for some who don't and are reading this post ... .

There are numerous studies, universities, professors, Ph.d's, MDs, therapist that have studied this question for decades. BPD is a VERY serious Cluster B mental illness with numerous studies to indicate that is in deed a genetic, physical defects within the brain coupled with environmental conditions that are responsible for BPD. BPD can also be co-diagnosed with other mental / behavioral illnesses such as NPD for example.  There are MD, Ph.d's that are trying to categorize BPD in the Cluster A mental illness category that includes paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder.

The following is in part a study from Harvard Medical School which indicates an underlying abnormality of the brain structure or function resulting in a significant disability.

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is a severe mental illness seen in approximately 20% of inpatient and outpatient clinical samples and between 1.2% and 5.9% of the general population and can co-occur with other disorders.

BPD is believed to emerge from an interaction between genes and environment. The major twin study showed that genes accounted for 69% of the variance in diagnostic concordance. This concordance rate is similar to that found in bipolar disorder and stronger than rates for depression or anxiety. Functional MRI studies of BPD patients show abnormalities in the amygdala (an almond-sized and shaped brain structure linked with a person's mental and emotional state) and the prefrontal cortex (a part of the brain associated with planning, reasoning, solving problems and regulating thoughts, feelings and behaviors). A major BPD twin study showed that genes accounted for 69% of the variance in BPD.

A core feature of BPD is self-destructive behavior, including bingeing and purging, substance abuse, risky sexual behavior, reckless driving and spending, and self-injury. In the short term, these behaviors attempt to regulate out-of-control emotions, but the interpersonal consequences further impair troubled relationships.

Recent data link BPD to both structural and physiological brain abnormalities. Volumetric studies using MRI consistently show decreased volumes in the hippocampus and amygdala of persons with BPD. Functional MRI studies using standardized tests have demonstrated differences in brain areas and functioning between people with BPD and controls. Using evoked emotional response, MRI differentiated BPD from controls with differences appearing in the amygdala, anterior cingulate and prefrontal cortex. This research suggests that both the affective instability and the interpersonal hypersensitivity seen in BPD have their roots in the sensitivity of the brain's amygdala to negative emotions.  In the face of this increased amygdalae activation, persons with BPD demonstrate impaired self-regulatory function in the prefrontal cortex.

The findings from psychopharmacologic and other biologic treatment data, coupled with associated brain functioning findings, indicate that BPD is a biologically based disorder.  Based on this analysis, including BPD in the Massachusetts Parity Law as a "biologically-based disorder" is well founded.


There are several types of treatments that have several levels of "success" ... .success measured as limited MANAGEMENT of behavior from a chronic mental illness.  This study among others would indicate there is no full recovery or "cure" to indicate that they get better.  Example, my exBPDgf (age north of 50) has seen Ph.d's, clinical physiologist & therapist off & on for more then 25 years. She continues to have severe behavioral conditions that include impulse control issues, risky sexual behavior, alcohol abuse, reckless spending, self-injury, personal relationship trouble with multiple boyfriends, 2 ex-husbands and other BPD behavior that we've all read about.  She's been on several different meds in addition to Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) focuses on the concept of mindfulness, or paying attention to the present emotion. Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) can help people with BPD recognize and change both their beliefs and the ways they act that reflect inaccurate or negative opinions of themselves and others. Mentalization-based therapy (MBT) is a talk therapy that helps people identify and understand what others might be thinking and feeling.  Transference-focused therapy (TFP) is designed to help patients understand their emotions and interpersonal problems through the relationship between the patient and therapist in addition to mood stabilizers, anti-represents, anti-anxiety meds.

BPD is NOT like cancer that with surgery, chemo, radiation they "MIGHT" get better & after 5 years of no additional indications of cancer they are deemed "cured".  Evidence indicates BPD is at the gene level of the human body and physical abnormalities of the brain.  In the NON or codependent world we are in part a perfectionist ... .we want to "fix" everything to make everything better.  It was un-educated arrogant behavior on MY part to believe that I could "FIX" my exBPDgf with understanding, love, caring and wanting to help her ... .WHEN 25 plus years of professional psychiatric assistance & meds couldn't and still can't manage the mental illness.

As codependents we can & do get better at adjusting our behavior & learning what to look for when people are trying to take advantage of our good nature. We get better and identifying behavioral warnings of BPD and can steer clear of those r/s.  And with a little help from a good therapist helping us learn why we became codependent in the first place,  we can then live & share a life with someone who isn't mentally ill.

This is the first day to taking back YOUR life   

Come back as often as you need too ... .but come back as much as you WANT too!  You're among friends .

JQ

[SamwizeGamgee]

Best wishes on your journey.  Like it or not, this is happening to you.  Unfortunately, a part of your life is now tied to a person with BPD behaviors.  My advice is don't get wrapped around the axle trying to diagnose it or cure it.  Rather, work on you and find what needs to be done to fix yourself up. Hey, when you're doing better those around you can be better too.

That said, you have certainly every right to go forward with divorce.  Infidelity is a deal-killer in many beliefs.  It gets a little more difficult of a question if your partner has no flagrant signs, or illegal behaviors, and red flags that justify divorce to the casual observer.

I have learned that for me, I got in touch with my gut feeling and have found it to be right.

Peace and good fortune.

[john83]

I finally decided to divorce my BPD wife. Together since 1994, married in 1999. She cheats on me while in California to see family. I've finally realized that her affair had NOTHING to do with impulse control. It's takes time to take each other's clothes off and hop in the sack. That's a choice!

By the way, the affair lasted 2 months!

What do ya think about them apples?

Look back on all the good times and all the bad, and see which way the scales are tipping. Could you do this to your beloved... .the mother of your children? Could you knowingly and wantonly destroy trust and risk a family break-up for the sake of a short-lived sexual encounter? With potentially destructive implications for another family? She has... .Damn the torpedos! It'll be rough journey, but it'll be worth it... .all the very best.

Speaking of arduous journeys, here's a quote from an old scottish mountaineer

“Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now.”



William Hutchison Murray... .

Go climb... .the view from the top will be wonderful

[Nocheering]

Grego63,

You are not alone in this journey.  My story matches up almost identically with yours.  Been with my wife since 1994, married in 1996.  The rages/tantrums started shortly thereafter.  In 2013, I did the same thing with my wife's phone.  Wondered who she was texting 25 times a day for the past month.  Bought the reverse phone look-up app.  Found it was a man she worked with.  Called her out on it.  She admitted it.  I set a boundary: no more contact.  Had a 2 month honeymoon period.  But then she started in complaining incessantly about everything:  her job, my job, the house we lived in, the city where we resided.  About a year after the "texting" confrontation, I found a hotel credit card charge for a local hotel on a weekend I was out of town on business.  Hired a PI.  He tracked the two of them to hotels, restaurants, observed them having sex in his car.  Like yours, mine flew home to visit her mother and her boyfriend was in that same city at the same time.  After my PI and attorney gave me permission to confront her (they had me wait initially while they had all the dirt they needed to make sure she would not get any alimony), I did that and she at first lied, then came clean.  Admitted to all of it.

I drew another line in the sand.  Let's work together, rebuild the marriage, make it right.  She agreed.  But within 6 weeks, she was back chasing after him, calling him "her best friend" and professing her love for him.  I drew one final line in the sand.  NO CONTACT.  Six weeks later, she left her phone hanging around, and it was a treasure trove of love messages to him.  This time, my attorney advised me not to kick her out of the house, that it would come back to haunt me in the divorce proceedings.  So now we're in a holding pattern.  She has accepted a job out of state that starts in August.  She will move there in July.  I'll file the separation papers and then we'll move on.  And our kids seem to be in the same age range as yours, 18 year old daughter, 15 year old son.

As I stated at the beginning, Grego, you are not alone.  Others are going through this.  While our BPD spouses seek validation in a negative way, I know I seek validation that I am making the right choice in moving on with my life.  I've told her we will co-parent the children.  But she has never given me an opportunity to heal from the 2-year affair she had and the nearly 20 years of emotional abuse she has steeped on me.

Say a prayer, thank God for the blessings you do have, and pray for the strength, courage, knowledge and willpower to survive the current storm.

Best of luck to you.  Best of luck to all of us!