My friend has given me a leaflet for a domestic violence project

[Lifewriter16]

Over the last year, I have talked to a friend of mine quite a lot about the situation I have found myself in with my BPDxbf. She's been there through the multiple breakups. This friend is a social worker and mental health professional, so I think I should assume that she knows what she's talking about. Anyway, today, she gave me a leaflet for a project for women who have been subjected to domestic violence. It was a bit of a shock. I get the impression that another friend (who is a spiritual director) also views my relationship as abusive. I've always seen my relationship as basically loving assuming that my BPDxbf was struggling desperately to allow love into his life but had such a rotten start in life that he acted out his pain. A third friend has been warning me to stay away from him. She had a neighbour who was murdered by her boyfriend. They had a very tempestuous relationship. I put her warnings down to her being biased.

Anyway, it's making me think because these three women know me well. It makes me wonder if I was just being taken for a ride by my BPDxbf (he admits to ASPD traits and also appears NPD). The thing is, having asperger syndrome does leave me handicapped, especially when it comes to reading other people's feelings and especially their intentions. I feel quite upset at the thought of joining that support group, but if I am delusional about my BPDxbf, then it would probably help me. If I am not delusional about him, and he really is trying to accept love, he'd be horrified that I've joined. But the very fact I'm worried about his reaction is worrying in itself. Was my relationship abusive or was he just damaged? Can it be both? And should I attend? What if the outcome is letting go of him? And what if I've got it wrong and the work he's doing on himself would enable him to partake in the relationship in the way I'd hope? I'm certainly feeling very STUCK. And very sad. I've got to the point where I can only vaguely remember feeling loved by him. The abusive elements are growing in my mind. And I am feeling much worse for it.

Lifewriter x

[eeks]

Hi LW,

I get the impression that another friend (who is a spiritual director) also views my relationship as abusive. I've always seen my relationship as basically loving assuming that my BPDxbf was struggling desperately to allow love into his life but had such a rotten start in life that he acted out his pain.

Was my relationship abusive or was he just damaged? Can it be both?

I would say, yes it can be both.  He could be acting out his pain, and that acting out could be abusive.  

I'm certainly feeling very STUCK. And very sad. I've got to the point where I can only vaguely remember feeling loved by him. The abusive elements are growing in my mind. And I am feeling much worse for it.

I think going to the group could help with these feelings.  I'm assuming it's confidential, your ex doesn't need to know you went.  You would be doing it to seek care for yourself and connect with others, and that isn't an indictment of your ex. 

I strongly believe that the truth always heals.  I remember when a staff member directed me to the page on this site about narcissistic family dynamics (and the book by that title).  I read the pages, felt nauseous for about 3 days, with no other cause I could think of, and had a really gory bad dream that weekend.  

Ruminating can make things feel "worse", but there's also the kind of "worse" that comes from hearing/realizing the truth, like I just described.  It might be worth it to you to try to discern which it is.    

As far as whether the therapy your ex is doing could enable him to be in a relationship... .I've been thinking lately about what I should and shouldn't accept in a relationship.  As someone with an anxious attachment style, I am likely to attract an avoidant and experience the one partner demands, the other withdraws "dance".  But to what extent?  How hard do I/we have to try to "make it work"?  When is it worth it, and when is it better to realize that I have the choice to look for something easier?  When I say "easier" I don't mean I'm expecting all unicorns and rainbows, rather wondering whether I or others might be operating under a belief that "relationships are hard work", and haven't questioned whether that needs to be the case?  

[Lifewriter16]

Hi eeks,

I've always seen abuse as being willful mistreatment of another person, deliberate attempts to hurt that come from a place of contempt and hatred, a total antithesis of love. The situation with my BPDxbf is really challenging this. Indeed, everything about that relationship has really messed with my head and my sense of reality. I just don't trust my perceptions any more.

One time, he taunted me saying how clever he was for realising that he was in compliant surrenderer mode and then taking 'appropriate' action (i.e. abusive action) to stick up for himself against a bully (i.e. me).

When I was with my BPDxbf, I used to talk a lot about the 'real' him being nice etc (meaning when he was in healthy adult mode). One time, when he was particularly dysregulating he pointedly said to me: "This is the real me!"

Yet, he could be so affectionate and I took that for love. He maintained a lot of eye contact and I felt deep love when I looked into his eyes. Recently, I asked him whether he felt those same emotions when he looked in my eyes and his response suggested rather less of a soul-to-soul connection than I had thought existed. He told me he loved me a lot and I assumed that he meant what he said and wasn't playing with my emotions. It's possible that I was so wrapped up in my feelings of love that I assumed he reciprocated when he didn't feel the way I did at all. But, I still find that I want to believe the daydream of true love. If I go on that course, all that is going to get smashed to smitherines and that sense of being loved by someone is going to be taken away and I don't know if I can cope with that. There won't be any going back. If he was genuine but struggling, he will be lost to me unnecessarily. I will come to see him as more and more the aggressor rather than the lover and I know I will never be able to see him the same way again. It will all be gone.

Lifewriter x

[eeks]

But, I still find that I want to believe the daydream of true love. If I go on that course, all that is going to get smashed to smitherines and that sense of being loved by someone is going to be taken away and I don't know if I can cope with that. There won't be any going back. If he was genuine but struggling, he will be lost to me unnecessarily. I will come to see him as more and more the aggressor rather than the lover and I know I will never be able to see him the same way again. It will all be gone.

 

Maybe it's a good time to review this article?  https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

Especially point #1, "Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness".  I get the sense that you are afraid that if your feelings of being loved by your ex are "taken away", "all gone" that that means nobody has ever loved you and nobody ever will.  And if so, maybe the fear of that dire outcome is why it's been so excruciatingly difficult for you to let go of him!

The other thing is, you seem to be jumping to conclusions about what's going to happen as a result of attending this course/support group... .a bit of catastrophizing.  Are you able to slow down your thinking a bit, take it one step at a time? 

For example, will you have a meeting with one or more of the facilitators before the course begins?  And if they don't regularly do that, can you ask for one?  Do you think you would be able to share those fears (of your feelings of being loved being "smashed to smithereens" with one of the people running the course?  And that their response might help you know whether you want to participate?

It would not surprise me if they understand that feeling, because they have worked with others who felt the same way about their partners.

If he was genuine but struggling, he will be lost to me unnecessarily.

What I think I'm seeing here is that although you are committed to growing and healing, some part of you has a conviction that you really must make it work with this one person.  So you have a tendency to engage in these "what-ifs". 

 

The possibly unfortunate news is that you will need to feel those horrendous feelings of loss, being "smashed to smithereens", etc.  The good news is you don't have to feel them alone, and that feeling it in connection with one or more trusted people (whether it is this support group you got the info about, another support group, a friend, a therapist... .) will be painful but not catastrophic.

[Herodias]

I would have to say yes, it is emotional abuse. Mine eventually led to physical. The domestic violence people warned me that he could be a sociopath. The judge warned me that I could end up dead! Right in front of him! Your friends are wanting the best for you. I used to think they just don't understand how loving he is to me- but now I know it's trauma bonding. It's worth checking it out. My ex never understood he was being abusive  even after he was forced to go to anger management. He said all the men in there talked about how crazy women are. I know mine knows what he is doing/ he admitted he can manipulate people. Listen to your friends and look up mental abuse - it can be more damaging than physical.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi eeks.

I've reviewed the article and, you know what, I've realised that I've been trying to hang onto the belief that my relationship was different from all the rest, but it's classic BPD. It's all there. I have been kidding myself.

And you are dead right when you say:

"I get the sense that you are afraid that if your feelings of being loved by your ex are "taken away", "all gone" that that means nobody has ever loved you and nobody ever will.  And if so, maybe the fear of that dire outcome is why it's been so excruciatingly difficult for you to let go of him!"

That is exactly where my pain is right now.

As for the catastrophising, I am rather loathe to admit it. I told my daughter she was catastrophising the other day - I guess she learnt it from me. You are right about talking to someone about my fears about the course. I'm hoping that will be possible. I rang and left a message expressing my interest yesterday, but the woman who runs the course hasn't rung me back yet. I'm feeling I'm making too much out of my experience and I don't belong there. I'm scared to be found out as a woman who runs down and blames her 'partner' for her own ends. I'm scared I will get found out and ostracised. But, most of all, I am scared that I will discover that I am just like all the rest. I will have to face the possibility that he didn't actually love me after all, however, I'm already doing that and as you say:

The possibly unfortunate news is that you will need to feel those horrendous feelings of loss, being "smashed to smithereens", etc.  The good news is you don't have to feel them alone, and that feeling it in connection with one or more trusted people (whether it is this support group you got the info about, another support group, a friend, a therapist... .) will be painful but not catastrophic.

Thank you for being willing to confront me with the things I do not want to see. I am at a stage where that is what I need to heal even though I don't like it. You are helping to strengthen the healthy side of me even though that is causing me great sadness.

Love Lifewriter x

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Herodias.

Thanks for posting.

My BPDxbf has told me he has sociopathic 'traits' but he would never tell me which ones. I know that if I let this relationship drift on, I could end up dead too.  He threatened his wife with a knife in 2010 and has recently admitted that he threatened one of his stepsons (of primary school age) with that same knife. He may not have threatened me but I know that women who have been threatened with knives are more likely to end up dead. That's really saying something about their partners.

I know that if the emotional abuse goes unchecked, things will only escalate but I'm getting nowhere with setting boundaries. He just dumps me. I also know he's probably beyond help now as he's had all the therapy that's available to him, which has got him to his current level of abusive behaviour. He's learnt to stop hurting himself, but other people are a completely different matter.

UK child protection social workers have made a decision to disallow him custody of his daughter when his wife's child protection case goes to court. If he is considered to be unsafe around his own daughter, there's no way he's safe to be around mine.

I need to be strong.

Love Lifewriter

[Turkish]

When someone shows you who they are belive them; the first time. -Maya Angelou

Too many of us get caught up in denying this. Stay safe, Lifewriter.

[Herodias]

When someone shows you who they are belive them; the first time. -Maya Angelou

Too many of us get caught up in denying this. Stay safe, Lifewriter.

.  Yes! My husbands mother told me a long time ago that she didn't know what her son was capable of! That says allot! He would always tell me he would never hurt me/ only himself. Yet there I was on the floor with his hand over my mouth hyperventilating and couldn't breathe. He wouldn't let me up and when he did he waved a gun around with threats! We have to believe what we see and in my case, if a judge saw it before/ it must be so... .

[Herodias]

This is the article my client just sent me (she is working on gun control in my state and thought of me when she saw this); 

MORE THAN A STATISTIC:

My boyfriend insisted a gun would keep us “safer” up until the day he shot me in the face

WRITTEN BY:

Courtney Weaver

May 22, 2016

I met Kenny in June of 2009. I was 22 and he was 34. I am a blues singer—he’d seen me at one of the many gigs I played that year in California, where I was living at the time. A mutual friend introduced us, and Kenny told me that he loved my voice.

I immediately liked him. He was charming and handsome. I was also attracted to his intelligence—we talked in a deep, philosophical way that first night. He lived in Utah and was just visiting, so I spent the next few days taking him to a local oyster festival and my favorite beaches. He told me a bit about his life: half-Samoan, he was born in Pago Pago, the capital of American Samoa, but was raised a Mormon in California and Hawaii before going to Brigham Young University. He had worked in IT, but when we met, he was looking for new opportunities. We stayed in touch, and “officially” started dating in July when he invited me to Utah. It was on that trip, barreling down the highway in his diesel pickup, when he told me he had a concealed carry license. His gun, he said, was in the console.

I got goosebumps. My uncle killed himself with a gun when I was 9, so I’ve always been scared of them. I told him that story, but he reassured me that he had been extensively trained, and that his gun was for our protection. “This will keep us safer,” he promised.

I didn’t think about the gun during those early months—not until we went to Las Vegas for a tattoo convention slated to happen in early October. He got a penthouse room and made dinner plans, but then we saw on the news that a tsunami had hit Pago Pago. He got upset. We went out for dinner, but I left in tears before the food was even served because he’d started arguing with me. He said that he liked to debate and I shouldn’t engage in political discourse with him if I couldn’t “handle it.”

I finally left the room to get dinner on my own and calm down. I kept reassuring myself: He would never hurt me.

Back in our hotel room, he continued to rant. He seemed unhinged—and I was hungry. When I asked if he wanted to get something to eat, he flipped out. “How could you be so selfish?” he screamed. Then he grabbed his gun—he always carried it on him—and started pacing the room again, berating me. He never pointed it at me, but I was scared. I finally left the room to get dinner on my own and calm down. I kept reassuring myself: He would never hurt me.

By the end of October, he had moved to California looking for a fresh start. He had lost his IT job and, I learned, was about to lose his house. He was under a lot of financial stress. I blamed that for his bizarre behavior in Las Vegas. Meanwhile, I was busier than ever. In 2009, I played 97 gigs, my personal record. Kenny said that he fell in love with me for my voice, but he started making jealous remarks about my fans.

For Thanksgiving, I invited him to Seattle to meet my family. He had moved in with me and things were serious between us. Still, I was nervous to introduce him to my mom. I was stunned when he chastised me in front of her for leaving Seattle to pursue my career. My mother defended me, and I felt so overwhelmed that I went outside to have a cigarette, which made Kenny furious. By the time I came back inside, he had taken off in his truck. My mother said, “Courtney, if you stay with him, he will kill you.”

At the time, I thought she was trying to sabotage my happiness. But now I realize she saw through his facade. I didn’t—I was in love with him. When I called him, begging him to return, he said he was heading to Vegas to see his cousin. He was still furious at me and left messages through the night berating me. I went to bed heartbroken.

I was awakened by a phone call from an automated operator. An inmate at the Clark County Jail in Las Vegas was attempting to contact me. I accepted the charges. Kenny had been arrested for a DUI. “I’m in trouble,” Kenny said through the receiver. “I’m so sorry I got so upset when I met your family.”

He just kept apologizing profusely and then asked me to help him.

He just kept apologizing profusely and then asked me to help him.

I booked my flight to Vegas. His cousin picked me up at the airport and told me that Kenny was being charged with a DUI and a hit-and-run. I felt betrayed—why didn’t he tell me about the hit and run?

When I picked him up at the precinct in Vegas, he was so happy to see me. As he wrapped his arms around me, I noticed he had a Ziploc bag with all his belongings, including his Kimber .45. I tensed up. He may have sensed this because he quickly slipped it into his coat pocket.

We went to his cousin’s home, where I finally asked him about the hit-and-run. That made him angry—and when he was angry, he’d speak in this really measured creepy way. He never raised his voice as he berated me. I immediately knew I had made a mistake coming there.

The next four days were torture: He wouldn’t let me eat or use the bathroom unless he said it was okay. The days were a haze. He kept me trapped in his cousin’s guest bedroom, lecturing me about how he was starving me to help me lose weight. It was crazy. If I fell asleep, he’d wake me up, telling me I was selfish. I started planning my escape. I pretended to fall asleep and waited for him to leave the room.

As soon as he went to use the bathroom, I’d grabbed my suitcase and was halfway down the stairs when he jumped and pinned me down. I tried to wrestle him off me.

“You say you want me to be happy yet you try to leave when times get tough! People in relationships stick it out!”

“Why must you constantly defy me?” he said. “You say you want me to be happy yet you try to leave when times get tough! People in relationships stick it out during the rough patches!”

Over next 48 hours, I did anything I could to get in Kenny’s good graces. I finally was able to escape after having sex with him and waiting for him to fall asleep. I grabbed my purse, padded down the stairs and then ran out of his cousin’s house and as fast and hard as I could, zigzagging through the side streets in case Kenny woke up and found me gone. I made my way to a grocery store where I finally took out my phone and booked the first flight from Las Vegas to California.

It is hard for anyone to understand this, but I did love him. And even though I knew it was not a healthy love at that point, I still missed the man I fell in love with. He was not the man who had trapped me in Las Vegas. It was as if he had two personalities altogether, Jekyll and Hyde. To make matters worse, Christmas was coming, and I was still at odds with my mom. I felt terribly alone.

He told me he had nowhere else to go and that I was the only person he could turn to—and the only person he could trust.

I decided to go out for Christmas Eve. I was applying my eye makeup when I hear three raps at my foyer door. I thought it may be my friend, but then opened the door to see Kenneth.

He told me he had nowhere else to go and that I was the only person he could turn to—and the only person he could trust. He vowed to take accountability for the hit-and-run. I wanted to believe him. I let him in. I woke up early on Christmas morning and bought fresh Dungeness crab to make eggs Benedict for brunch. Later, we went to my aunt’s for a bonfire on the bay. He was back to being the man I fell in love with.

Out of the blue, Kenny proposed to me on Jan. 12, 2010. I had a sinister feeling in my gut, and yet felt as if I could not say no.

He decided we wanted to get pregnant, but I wasn’t sure. I’d had abortions in the past and didn’t want to commit to having a child with him. I didn’t realize it, but this was the beginning of the end.

A few days later, as I was clearing the table, he began furiously kissing me. I let him have his way with me, silently hoping it would calm him down. Afterward, I told him I was going out to see my friends.

“You know that means game over, right?” he shouted from the living room. “Abortion means game over,” he said. “You’re going to hell.”

I was putting on makeup in the bathroom when I heard rustling in the bedroom. I went to see what was happening just as Kenny flung Raja, my cat, against the wall. I went to get him a glass of water and as I walked back into the room, I saw him loading his Kimber .45.

I turned to shield my face and felt one bullet pierce my right arm. The second one tore through my jaw.

“What are you doing?” I asked alarmed.

“I need to go out,” he said. His eyes were vacant and far away. Then he said, “I just killed your cat.”

I was overcome with chills. “I can’t be with someone who would do that,” I stammered, fighting back tears.

“You can’t be with me?” he said it again, with a crazed look in his eyes.

“No.” I said.

That’s when he lunged for the door. I tried to stop him, and then he pulled out his gun.

Shots rang out and the kitchen door window shattered as I crouched and covered my ears. Then he aimed the gun at me. I turned to shield my face and felt one bullet pierce my right arm. The second one tore through my jaw.

I went into the living room to find my phone and saw a gaping hole in my forearm. Then I saw the trail of blood reaching from the kitchen to the couch. When I screamed for help, and along with my cries, blood, teeth, and tissue came out of my mouth.

I stumbled out of the house and down to my neighbor’s, who called the police, and then I was eventually airlifted to UC Davis. Three blood transfusions and a 16-hour surgery, I finally learned the extent of the damage: the second bullet pierced my right ulna, my right upper maxillary, destroyed five teeth, lacerated my tongue diagonally, shattered the left half of my mandible, before abscessing in my neck.

I blamed myself for the shooting and for not being able to subdue Kenny. Society and the system blame me too.

Since that day, I’ve had 13 reconstructive surgeries. I would eventually need one year of weekly physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech pathology to rehabilitate my voice, followed by four years of eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy. In total, I’ve had more than $750,000 in medical treatment—some of it covered by my insurance, some not.

Getting shot was the most embarrassing thing that ever happened to me. An intimate relationship is private. Suddenly, mine was open to public scrutiny. I felt shame because secretly I still struggled with my romantic feelings—they didn’t just vanish after he left me for dead. I still wrestle with that.

I also blamed myself for the shooting and for not being able to subdue Kenny. Society and the system blame me too. I was financially responsible for cleaning up the crime scene. I remember thinking, as I scrubbed my own blood from the carpets, “Why doesn’t he have to do this?” I moved five times in six months following my shooting because nobody wanted to rent to me. They thought I was trouble. I started to believe them. Maybe I was trouble?

Kenny pleaded guilty on Nov. 18, 2010, to assault with a deadly weapon and was sentenced to 11 years. He is scheduled to be released from prison in 2019. That’s three years away.

People tell me I’m lucky because I survived. But the shooting had nothing to do with chance.

Meanwhile, I received the police report of the shooting. I was amazed to see that I told police that we had not been fighting that night. In the months that followed, I learned that I was in an abusive relationship. I lived in a Seattle domestic violence shelter for three months in 2011, which allowed me to get back up on my feet again and get an apartment.

Today, I volunteer for the Washington State Coalition Against Domestic Violence and work with Everytown for Gun Safety. I shared my story—and photos of my bullet-ridden body—which helped pass House Bill 1840 and Initiative I-594, which give law enforcement tools to remove firearms when a domestic violence protective order is granted.

To prepare for my testimony, I began tracking shootings in Washington State—who was shot, how, why. Since then, I’ve researched over 500 shootings related to domestic violence. For each one, I think: This woman had a life, she had passions, she had dreams, she was like me. She just wanted love, she just wanted to leave when it wasn’t working anymore. But he had a gun. And now she is gone.

People tell me I’m lucky because I survived. But the shooting had nothing to do with chance. I’m merely a product of the lethal coincidence of domestic violence and firearms in a household. I could have been a statistic–one of the 8,700 women who were shot to death by their partners between 2000 and 2013. More often than not, when they have left or are attempting to leave. Kenny wanted me all to himself. If he could not have me, then he wanted to kill me.

I am still here.

[Lifewriter16]

Bl!mey, Herodias, that testimony leaves me speechless. The thing that struck me is how she 'learned' that she was in an abusive relationship. I'm having to learn that too. It's like we're too close to see the obvious. I keep seesawing between denial and glimmers of enlightenment.

Have you read any of Cloudten's posts? She has a scary story but she's got free... .

Lifewriter x

[HurtinNW]

Hello Lifewriter

I'm having a hard time owning the truth with this issue. My therapist is encouraging me to speak my truth, and not see it as "bad mouthing." Yesterday in therapy she asked me to state what my ex did, what happened. I would state my truth, and she asked, "How does that feel?" Most of the time I was able to say, "that feels like the truth."

The truth was my ex treated me abusively. The truth was he was abusive: emotionally, verbally and a few times physically menacing. The truth was he abused me. I can avoid, minimize, try to focus on the good stuff. But the guy was cruel, mean, vicious, hurtful. He was abusive, many times, and any prospective of a relationship with him will include abuse.

It's hard for me to say I was in an abusive relationship, and I am trying to dig into just why. I think at heart by naming it and recognizing it I have to admit that he is not the right guy, not my soul mate, not my future.

I have to really let go.

And that's hard. To go to a group for domestic violence victims would be pretty much sending myself a giant billboard with the words: YOU WERE IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP. At that point you have to own that it's not going to work out.

So I'm also learning I was in an abusive relationship.   

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Hurtin.

I understand what you mean about that giant billboard. I sat and cried last night and again this morning because I don't want to see that giant billboard. It's so hard to wake up to these realities. But, eeks hit the nail on the head, when she suggested my reluctance to let go is because I believe that no one loved me and no one ever will (and as such he is my only chance at love).

I rang the project (Hey!) and got myself signed up! I'd rather look at that giant billboard than be laid in a graveyard somewhere with a headstone that says 'I'm sure I wasn't in an abusive relationship, I know he loved me... .'

Love Lifewriter

[Herodias]

"I'd rather look at that giant billboard than be laid in a graveyard somewhere with a headstone that says 'I'm sure I wasn't in an abusive relationship, I know he loved me... ."

Yes!

[Lucky Jim]

The truth was my ex treated me abusively. The truth was he was abusive: emotionally, verbally and a few times physically menacing. The truth was he abused me. I can avoid, minimize, try to focus on the good stuff. But the guy was cruel, mean, vicious, hurtful. He was abusive, many times, and any prospective of a relationship with him will include abuse.

It's hard for me to say I was in an abusive relationship, and I am trying to dig into just why. I think at heart by naming it and recognizing it I have to admit that he is not the right guy, not my soul mate, not my future.

Well said, Hurtin'.  :)itto for me!  I would add that it's particularly hard for me as a guy to admit that I was in an abusive r/s with a woman.  Well, I was.  In fact, I was married to the abuser.  (past tense -- we are now divorced).

LuckyJim

[Herodias]

I said I was going to try to not talk about my ex, but the woman who sent me that article I posted above came in today. She said she saw it and  thought of me. I told her I posted it here and she was glad. She is working on changing the gun laws in my state. She said that they were in session today discussing the option for people to go over state borders with concealed weapons. The problem is our state has regulations before you can get one... .the next stage over does not! That would be awful... .she said every time there is a shooting, people who are against controlling who can get guns try and change up regulations making it easier , not harder!  She said there are many other stories out there. I was telling her that I had lots of horrible stores about my ex and I was trying not to make him sound like a bad guy while I was married. I said I think I was trying to protect him. She actually said that I was not hiding it very well. She said ALL of the people around me were very afraid he was going to harm me. They all saw what I thought I was hiding! I was kind shocked. I does show you, we are really only hiding it from ourselves... .

[Grey Kitty]

Was my relationship abusive or was he just damaged? Can it be both?

Yes, your relationship was abusive. My marriage was too, although that ended long before my marriage effectively did.

Whenever my wife was abusing me, I knew she was herself hurting, and was probably abusing herself worse at least emotionally internally than what she was giving me.

But it was abuse. The key is that abuse is the behavior, not the reason the abuser has for doing it.

I know first or second hand a fair number of people who have behaved abusively, and I'm pretty sure that all of them were hurting, damaged people. I often had compassion for those people too. So yes, it can be both. In fact, while I've got no way to know, I suspect it is pretty much always the case.

Having compassion for a person who is behaving abusively does NOT mean putting up with abusive behavior, though. That's the key thing. And in many cases, the only way to prevent it is to leave the r/s.

[Lucky Jim]

Having compassion for a person who is behaving abusively does NOT mean putting up with abusive behavior, though. That's the key thing. And in many cases, the only way to prevent it is to leave the r/s.

Right, GK, that's the crucial distinction.  I confused empathy with allowing abuse.  They are not the same thing, as you note.  And yes, the only way for me to prevent it was to leave my marriage.

LuckyJim