My wife thinks being dead is better than separated

[ArleighBurke]

Background: I left my uBPDw about 2 months ago, but returned after 1 week to continue to work on the marriage.

Two nights ago our son said he was looking forward to a family trip away to my parents. This triggered my wife because she doesn't know how to act around my family given the separation and reconciliation, and probably feels embarassed/hurt/ashamed.

So my wife talked to me about the breakup. She basically was trying to get me to feel guilty/remorse about leaving and making her feel bad. I said I didn't think I did the wrong thing, so I wasn't feeling guilty. She said I dumped her with 3 kids, left without warning, she felt bad being at student teacher interviews alone, she didn't eat all week, I never gave her a choice about me leaving. (All not true - we talked for about a week prior to me going, and I offered for HER to go instead of me so that I took the kids). She said one night S12 just laid and cuddled her because she was crying so much. She said the though of separating was horrible - because the kids would  have to choose loyality, where to live, who to love. She said she worried so much about it that she decided the only way to prevent the kids having to go through that was to commit suicide!

(On day 4 after I left, about 2am, she did cut her wrist. She's cut before, about 1/yr I would think - when we have difficult conversations. This time the cut was deeper than I've ever seen. About 7cm long and GAPING. I didn't find out about it for abuot a week. But it wasn't really a full attempt - maybe some part of her didn't believe it)

I managed that conversation well. I empathasised, listened, validated, didn't judge. Then i went to bed. She came to me about 10 mins after I went to bed and "thanked me" for listening to her without becoming annoyed.

The conversation didn't really get to me. I certainly feel bad that she went through so much pain, but i didn't take it on. I maintained distance and compassion, and didn't own it.

But the next night (last night), she asked me how I felt after the previous night's conversation. Before I answered, I asked her:

Me: You often say that you can feel an emotion, but logically disagree with it. I find that amazing. I want to understand your brain. I completely get that you were in a lot of pain, and would have been overwhelmed, but here now, do you agree with that thinking?

Her: Yes. I see the pain, confusion, horrible lives that kids who have split homes have to live. I think that having a dead parent would also hurt, but it would be a quick clean pain (for the kids).

I came at it from a few angles, just trying to see whether she truely believed that or not - and I think she does! I validated her pain, but also said I disagreed. I said the pain, the hole of losing a mother would hurt the kids just as much - probably more.

Then she asked whether I felt anything from the conversation. I said I hate that she hurt so much. She said she wasnt trying to manipulate me at all! Then she said she expected that I should be moved by the conversation (and seemed kind of annoyed that I wasn't feeling guilty... .). And that I need to reassure her about the relationship and tell her that the possibility of us separating was so far away.

*That* conversation got to me. This morning i feel shattered, drained, hopeless. But I still don't feel guilty, and if I was to leave her again (which would be final) I would setup something first (suicide watch? take the kids? Hospital admittance?). But I feel crap. I don't know why. Perhaps it's just empathy. Perhaps it's like being emotionally beaten up. I look around at all my work colleges and feel alone. I don't want to just ignore it and keep going. I cried all the way to work. I cried just now at my desk writing this!

I came back to my wife to *accept* her. To do the best i can. I will - but it's difficult.

Thanks for listening.

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[john83]

Background: I left my uBPDw about 2 months ago, but returned after 1 week to continue to work on the marriage.

Two nights ago our son said he was looking forward to a family trip away to my parents. This triggered my wife because she doesn't know how to act around my family given the separation and reconciliation, and probably feels embarassed/hurt/ashamed.

So my wife talked to me about the breakup. She basically was trying to get me to feel guilty/remorse about leaving and making her feel bad. I said I didn't think I did the wrong thing, so I wasn't feeling guilty. She said I dumped her with 3 kids, left without warning, she felt bad being at student teacher interviews alone, she didn't eat all week, I never gave her a choice about me leaving. (All not true - we talked for about a week prior to me going, and I offered for HER to go instead of me so that I took the kids). She said one night S12 just laid and cuddled her because she was crying so much. She said the though of separating was horrible - because the kids would  have to choose loyality, where to live, who to love. She said she worried so much about it that she decided the only way to prevent the kids having to go through that was to commit suicide!

(On day 4 after I left, about 2am, she did cut her wrist. She's cut before, about 1/yr I would think - when we have difficult conversations. This time the cut was deeper than I've ever seen. About 7cm long and GAPING. I didn't find out about it for abuot a week. But it wasn't really a full attempt - maybe some part of her didn't believe it)

I managed that conversation well. I empathasised, listened, validated, didn't judge. Then i went to bed. She came to me about 10 mins after I went to bed and "thanked me" for listening to her without becoming annoyed.

The conversation didn't really get to me. I certainly feel bad that she went through so much pain, but i didn't take it on. I maintained distance and compassion, and didn't own it.

But the next night (last night), she asked me how I felt after the previous night's conversation. Before I answered, I asked her:

Me: You often say that you can feel an emotion, but logically disagree with it. I find that amazing. I want to understand your brain. I completely get that you were in a lot of pain, and would have been overwhelmed, but here now, do you agree with that thinking?

Her: Yes. I see the pain, confusion, horrible lives that kids who have split homes have to live. I think that having a dead parent would also hurt, but it would be a quick clean pain (for the kids).

I came at it from a few angles, just trying to see whether she truely believed that or not - and I think she does! I validated her pain, but also said I disagreed. I said the pain, the hole of losing a mother would hurt the kids just as much - probably more.

Then she asked whether I felt anything from the conversation. I said I hate that she hurt so much. She said she wasnt trying to manipulate me at all! Then she said she expected that I should be moved by the conversation (and seemed kind of annoyed that I wasn't feeling guilty... .). And that I need to reassure her about the relationship and tell her that the possibility of us separating was so far away.

*That* conversation got to me. This morning i feel shattered, drained, hopeless. But I still don't feel guilty, and if I was to leave her again (which would be final) I would setup something first (suicide watch? take the kids? Hospital admittance?). But I feel crap. I don't know why. Perhaps it's just empathy. Perhaps it's like being emotionally beaten up. I look around at all my work colleges and feel alone. I don't want to just ignore it and keep going. I cried all the way to work. I cried just now at my desk writing this!

I came back to my wife to *accept* her. To do the best i can. I will - but it's difficult.

Thanks for listening.

Hi ArleighBurke... .I feel for you... .I'm not surprised you feel drained. You're aware of her condition and how it manifests... .the guilt-tripping and emotional blackmail.

I don't wish to sound harsh, but frankly, any mother who thinks that she'd be doing her kids a favour by committing suicide is certifiable. Does she actually believe this? Has she even considered the nigh-on irreparable emotional damage this would do to a young child? Did she ask your son how he would feel? And then, after putting you through the trauma of cutting her wrists, she then gets arsey because you failed to 'feel' the way she wanted you to, following the conversation. Man alive! Do you have a counsellor or doctor you can talk to? It's a laudable thing 'accepting' your partner the way she is, but be honest, her manipulative behaviour is unlikely to change, whether you're in or out of the relationship.  Don't feel guilty... .you're not to blame for her condition and, by the sounds of it, you try really hard to manage the situation with compassion and thoughfulness. Kids don't have to choose loyalty, or who to love... .but you have a choice in whether you stay and make the best of it, or leave... .and make the best of it. I know what I would do... .get some support WK, you need it

[once removed]

Then she said she expected that I should be moved by the conversation (and seemed kind of annoyed that I wasn't feeling guilty... .). And that I need to reassure her about the relationship and tell her that the possibility of us separating was so far away.

this tended to confirm what i suspected as i read. that her gestures, the conversation, were primarily about her fear of abandonment, and need for reassurance.

her rationalizations are strikingly hard to validate. when you boil it down to the common denominator, they make more sense.

her fear of abandonment, whether triggered by your actions, were not caused by you. you were acting in your emotional self interest, which you must be prepared to do.

in terms of mitigating her fears, and validating them, it sounds like you did well. you listened, you heard, you didnt judge, and she acknowledged that; in terms of a silver lining, she was vulnerable, and communicated with you, and its invaluable to know where shes coming from.

im so sorry for the pain youre going through, it must be unbearable, the weight on your shoulders  . the other silver lining, if it offers any relief, is that although in some situations it gets worse before it gets better, it gets better, and i think your actions are facilitating the best possible outcome in that regard 

[ArleighBurke]

Thankyou for your kind words.

I know everything i see is "typical BPD". I understand where it comes from, and how I should handle it, but it's still difficult.

[Sunfl0wer]

Wow, I cannot imagine being in your position engaging in such a helpful way as you did!  Seems like you were able to stay present, and validate, without getting sucked into some very heavy stuff.

She said the though of separating was horrible - because the kids would  have to choose loyality, where to live, who to love. She said she worried so much about it that she decided the only way to prevent the kids having to go through that was to commit suicide!

This statement of hers makes my skin crawl.  Her perception of a divorce is that the kids would have to choose where to live? Who to love?

This sounds like a veiled threat (or freudian slip) (or just the way her brain works) to you that if you leave her, she will alienate those kids from you!

I sense that she is projecting all her splitting onto those kids, and saying they have to make this black white decision, and in order to make that easy, because she herself cannot consider a grey option, the only option is to remove choices from you all.

Whether she kills herself or continues to live, it sounds like she is stating her stance as: the only option I can live with is nobody having any options except me.  Anyone else who has any option is a threat to my reality and death is not out of realm of MY choices.

The statements she made sharing her perception of how the kids will be affected, greatly concerns me on many levels. 

*That* conversation got to me. This morning i feel shattered, drained, hopeless. But I still don't feel guilty, and if I was to leave her again (which would be final) I would setup something first (suicide watch? take the kids? Hospital admittance?). But I feel crap. I don't know why. Perhaps it's just empathy. Perhaps it's like being emotionally beaten up. I look around at all my work colleges and feel alone. I don't want to just ignore it and keep going. I cried all the way to work. I cried just now at my desk writing this!

Wow! Of course you are feeling shattered, drained, hopeless, and like crap!

You sound very level headed in spite of this!

I think I maybe able to understand feeling so out of touch with being at work when so much of my world and internal world feels so different than everything else around me.  It makes me feel surreal.  I would not be surprised if you are also in some shock and will gradually process in a way manageable for you.

(I really hope what I have said does not seem harmful to you in anyway, I am coming from a place of compassion, but realize my words sometimes are not as polished as I wish)

[Wrongturn1]

ArleighBurke, your post struck a chord with me as I have dealt with similar issues lately:  my uBPDw was very upset with me a couple of weeks ago because I was not angry with my mother after something she said/did inadvertently offended my wife.  Having my wife get angry with me because my emotional state does not meet her expectations is extremely frustrating to say the least, especially when I do a good job of validating the emotions she is feeling.

Also, about suicide, if you have a chance for a rational discussion with your wife about her committing suicide, I suggest that you ask her to research the rates of drug/alcohol abuse and suicide among children who have lost a parent to suicide - it's really disturbing.  Ask her how those statistics square with her idea of making life better for the children by being gone. 

This past weekend while dysregulated, my wife was expressing some suicidal ideation (yeah, she knows how to make a holiday weekend special,  ), and I spent some time pondering this on my own.  What I finally decided was that if my wife ever actually attempts suicide, that would constitute a complete abandonment on her part of our marriage and our family, and that I would respect and effectuate her choice by proceeding to file for divorce immediately and fight for full custody of our two children.  So while it might seem harsh to divorce someone who has just attempted suicide, I refuse to have my children raised by someone who would intentionally do that kind of damage to our family.