Friends sit in judgment

[Lollypop]

Hi

It's my birthday in a few days and today I've met up with my very good friends for a girly get together and catchup.  At one point, when we were chatting about a mutual friend mollycoddling her 24 year old "soon to be a dad" son, I said "She's got to stop criticising him and make a man of him now with a baby of his own on the way.  It's not easy though, look at me."  I then noticed one of my friends nudge the leg of another friend; it was as if this gesture was unspoken recognition of me not parenting right. I've really taken this to heart.

They look on from the outside and judge me and BPDs25.  At his age he should be living independently and they are absolutely right. They don't understand he has limitations, he has a battle every day trying to balance and deal with quite basic and inconsequential daily things.  If I was to say this to my friends I can hear "for gods sake, it's time he left and stood on his own two feet. Why are you even putting up with this childish behaviour? He just needs to get on with it."

I'm due to go out again in a few minutes. Evening drinks with some neighbours who we haven't been out with for years. They have the perfect, well adjusted, uni attended and successful adult children.  Sigh... .

I don't know why I'm writing this. I guess it's because I'm admitting I need to step things up. I'm prickling because there's some truth in my friends judgement.

It's a thin line between support and enabling. I seem to get it wrong most of the time.  I haven't been working on my skills hard enough or posting either.

We go on our family holiday on Friday. I'm hoping this will help further heal us all. I hope both of my sons benefit from this time together and help their relationship with their dad. Its a time I can reflect and work out what I need to do next.

Bye for now

L  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rockieplace]

Oh my dear, I'm so sorry you are feeling like this.  It's so hard to know if we are doing the right thing isn't it?  The experts don't really know what the right thing is where mental health issues such as this are concerned as evidenced by the number of bad judgement calls they make when assessing and intervening etc. 

The consultants dealing with my d have differed quite markedly in their approach and most of them have seemed pretty anxious to offload her onto someone else!  How are we as mere laypeople to be expected to always get it right or even get it right some of the time. BPD seems to present everyone with a huge challenge. Your son is a quiet BPD by the sound of it so I reckon it makes it a bit easier to see the suffering. My d can be so vicious, unpleasant, arrogant and downright dishonest at times that it is hard to even want to be near her. The guilt I feel when just writing this pierces me like a knife too!  It is such a complex illness made more unpredictable by the addictions that often accompany it. I never thought I would face such a challenge in later life.

Some friends will never get it. You have to walk a mile in our shoes to get an inkling don't you?  I have friends I can't even talk about it to. Then I have friends who have shown such empathy. The only problem is that when they are so nice about it it makes me cry!  It is also more common than you think. Since we have had this crisis with our d we have discovered that a significant number of friends and acquaintances have had at least some experience of mental health problems in their families. Things aren't always as rosy as they seem.

I'll be thinking about you on your holiday and so hope that all goes smoothly. Lots of bigs hugs

[Yepanotherone]

Completely hear where your coming from and share your pain . I was sitting last night with friends at a BBQ  and they were talking about sending their kids to universities etc and I just feel so sad because I doubt my girl will even make it through High School , never mind going to University . And as I sit there , I feel judged .
Today I notice my DD has been hacking at her legs and abdomen again with a razor and she chooses to wear the shortest of shorts and a crop top!. We are to be having a family day today as its my oldest DD's 20th birthday , so we are going to go shopping , dinner etc . And I look at my DD's legs and think to myself , great . Just great . I've to spend the day watching everyone else around us looking at your legs then have their eyes darting towards me , asking quietly " where did you go wrong "? I feel so selfish and so horrible for feeling embarrassed  I just want to cry for her .

[Lollypop]

Hi RP and Yep

Unless a person has been affected by mental health issues in the family then, as I see it, they just don't get it.

I can really sympathise Yep. People looking and staring at your daughter must be so very hard for you. Theres something so brutal about cutting, it seems different to any other type of self harming but of course it isn't really. It's just so very clear that somebody is in pain.

I find when I'm with people outside of our home I become affected by their views and opinions (whether they voice them or not).  I start to ruminate, I start  to build things up in my head and I get very negative thoughts about my Bpds. I can easily go back to my old ways trying to change him, force him to take action but since being on this forum Im getting better at controlling this. It's just difficult to be patient.

This morning, when I saw my BPDs clearly happy looking forward to his day in work, pleased with himself as he's managed to save some money towards our family holiday, I felt guilty about feeling so negative about him. He's made such strides.

I have to remind myself of his limitations as he can seem so very normal and together. This is part of the problem as he's a "quiet" one. 

RP. I'm sorry you still feel very tearful when your friends kindly ask about your daughter. It must be a relief she's now in the system but it sounds very frustrating if there's different professional opinions. Hopefully, things are at least stable and you will get stronger as your daughter learns how to cope better. It's ok to cry, I sometimes allow myself a day or two to "hole up" just to recharge myself.

My phrase today is "keep calm and carry on"

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

I'm sorry you feel so.  Sounds like the holiday you have carefully planned for can't come soon enough.  It's hard isn't it, we try our hardest to stay positive and balanced with all life knocks (my 90 year old Mum took her seven days pill box in two days! She is fine and we were lucky, have increased the home care to administer her tabs, which she is very unhappy about  ). You've done marvellously with your son and family over the last six months when we both joined here, I have seen all your hard work and great determination to be the best parent for your son you can be (buckets full) and as we know its small steps and at times is EXHAUSTING, like now. We plod on LP and I think we can both see we have moved mountains from where we were and that is to be congratulated and commended. I commend you LP, congratulations to you. It's hard to feel judged, some people see things as easily fixable, we know better and I know from speaking with my daughter it is much harder for her, the stigma attached to mental health hurts her so very much.  RP is correct, we have quiet BPs, when I look in my daughters eyes each day I see her suffering and it takes my breath away.

Just back from Lancashire visiting my Mum. Daughter is out and I hope safe, as when I was away in February she was last hospitalised so yes I have been on alert. Next time she is hospitalised I have decided not to visit, as I saw from a video here visiting may promote the behaviour.  Ugh!

Wishing you a very happy birthday LP and I shall also be thinking of you while you are on holiday. As you say time to invest in communication and relationship building AND chill out, rest.  Run up to birthdays can also be stressful, for some.

Daughter's mantra is 'keep on going' and validated by her therapist, let's do it 

BW, WDx

[wendydarling]

Hey LP, we posted at the same time, I pressed send before your post as I have drafted many a response to you and got scuppered by events!  I agree, when in the company of others who 'don't get it', it knocks us for five.  I have worked hard with our joint core group of friends who have come forward and I build upon fostering that network, my daughters and mine. It's a joint effort of daughter and I, some people have experience of friends mental health issues, ie outside family, and care very much and are active supporter in learning how they can support. It's very helpful and I wish for you and son to have the same.

Thanks very much for the 'keep calm' I'll suggest we add it to daughter's 'keep going' mantra as she so suffers from anxiety and it's likely to build upon her mindfulness and radical acceptance last known to being practised.

I continue to look through at life through my daughters eyes (and brain), not mine, like you do with your son.

BW WDx

[Bright Day Mom]

I have experienced the "perfect life friends" and have learned there is no such thing, they are fakes.  Everyone has something, many are experts at concealing it.

Over the years I have accepted that  I will be judged one day, but guess what, not by anybody here, but my heavenly Father.  Once I changed my thinking, the brutal opinions of others fell to the curb! 

I agree with previous post, nobody can begin to imagine unless they walked a mile in our shoes! We are tougher, stronger than many.

Keep your chin up and celebrate YOUR child and YOUR FAMILY; have a fantastic holiday

[wendydarling]

Hi Bright Day

I like your honesty. I don't take prisoners either, I take good friends and family and I am compassionate and respectful of those who do not have to tread our shoes. Looking through my daughters viewpoint, always and forever, though not in an enabling way! I hope.

WDx

[Lollypop]

Thank you everyone for sharing, support and encouragement.

I'm feeling better and resolved to just "be" for the next month. Progress isn't linear!

I've just watched the BBC news and saw the item on Ed Bullmore, head of psychiatry at Cambridge. Great research in mapping the adolescent brain and potential mental health disorders. It's good news that research is going on.

[wendydarling]

Good for you LP, pleased you are feeling better. I too plan to take August off it, so to speak. Thanks for sharing the news item, I look forward to catching it up. WDx

[Lollypop]

Once I changed my thinking... .Keep your chin up and celebrate YOUR child and YOUR FAMILY; have a fantastic holiday  

Having slept on the "friend incident" over the last few nights and reflected I've decided to put my big girly boots on.

Yes, people may judge us by our children or by ourselves and our actions.  They are in fact correct in so far that I HAVE BEEN part of the problem and I take full responsibility for this.

"I'm changing my behaviours and, let me share with you, it's a very hard thing to do. Being a parent  to somebody who struggles with mental health issues can be really challenging. We make steady progress and I'm confident we'll get there in the end."  

Next time I feel a friend is judging me I'm going to try and remember to say something like these words.

Have a wonderful day everyone.

I'm trying to fill my boots!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[zonnebloem]

 

A happy Birthday from me too, Lollypop!

I agree... .it is tuff to have true friends.

and I agree to what I come to read: The heavenlyfather will Judge.
I hope you have nice holidays with enough sport.
Sport is great for the body.

[Yepanotherone]

Ladies I would just like to say I dearly wish we could all meet up for coffee and a good old chinwag  

Happy birthday LP and I hope you had a restful break xxx

[Lollypop]

Hi YEP

wouldn't that be just great?

Mind you, I don't think we'd stop talking and breathe for air!

[wendydarling]

Nice one Yep, I agree. Never say never Yep, we are all moving forward together

Perhaps a philanthropic foundation may see the value of bringing our active BPD family parents together, food for thought.

Hope the meds change is going ok x

LP love the way you say you're putting your girlie boots ON. Challenging for you to work with three men, challenging for me to work alone with one daughter.  We are.

WDx

[Yepanotherone]

Well so far , aside from the significant cutting of the legs ( and I'm talking from knees right up to groin) , things seem peachy ! After Sunday , when she paraded her fresh cuts for all to see , my husband and I agreed that it was time to take the car keys . Told her that we were worried for her safety , worried about other road users safety, not willing to take that risk if she is so clearly mentally unhealthy and making poor decisions etc etc  that to drive on her own was just not going to happen . Naturally she was very angry ( which was actually unusual , she is more often than not very self contained and when angry , we just get the silent treatment and caustic sarcasm . so to see her actually expressing some emotion was strangely refreshing !), she argued that just because she self harms , she's not suicidal yada yada yada . She ranted to her therapist last night about it , stomped around a bit more etc etc .
After some discussion with hubby , we agreed that now might be the best time to get some basic agreements in place . Blackmail and bribery if you will !
For the first time in almost a year , we all sat down together to have a proper conversation about what was going on ( my daughter normally absolutely refuses point blank to contemplate this ) . For the first time , I started to get little glimmers of why she seems so shut off to us . She is definitely angry that we moved States, that I do know . But I hadn't really appreciated that she is actually also angry that no one noticed she was struggling at the beginning of 9th grade . ( I thought it was usual teenage Behaviour ... Irritability , isolating herself in her room etc etc ) . It suddenly made sense to me and the bits are starting to add up . She has been feeling unnoticed and unheard. My husband normally avoids these types of conversations with a barge pole , but the therapist made a good point that he needs to have his say and tell my DD exactly what he thinks too , rather than me being the messenger all the time and being demonized for it ! He actually did very well , opened himself up to telling her he simply doesn't understand why she's so intent on hurting herself and scarring her body .Anyway , I digress !
Long story short , I got her to sign an agreement in order to get the car keys and made it quite clear , any breaches will mean no keys . Her dad even said the car will be sold faster than she can blink if she doesn't keep up her side of the bargain . Included in this agreement is weekly skin checks , therapy being a priority with no excuses / arguments ,every effort to be made to use other coping strategies and more effort on her part to start giving DBT a chance .
I don't know if we've done the right thing or not but my gut is saying we have the ideal bargaining tool right now , likely the best one we'll ever get !and it would be silly not to use it ! I'll let you know if it backfires !

Anyhoo ... .First night on half the original dose was last night . From 20mg, now down to 10mg . We shall see . Last time her dose was reduced from 20mg to 10 straight away , no halfway 15mg doseage and it didn't bode well ! Intrusive thoughts, paranoia and auditory hallucinations came back in abundance ! I'm a bit antsy! Sleeping with one eye open right now !

LP , I so sorry for hijacking your thread !

[Yepanotherone]

Well so far , aside from the significant cutting of the legs ( and I'm talking from knees right up to groin) , things seem peachy ! After Sunday , when she paraded her fresh cuts for all to see , my husband and I agreed that it was time to take the car keys . Told her that we were worried for her safety , worried about other road users safety, not willing to take that risk if she is so clearly mentally unhealthy and making poor decisions etc etc  that to drive on her own was just not going to happen . Naturally she was very angry ( which was actually unusual , she is more often than not very self contained and when angry , we just get the silent treatment and caustic sarcasm . so to see her actually expressing some emotion was strangely refreshing !), she argued that just because she self harms , she's not suicidal yada yada yada . She ranted to her therapist last night about it , stomped around a bit more etc etc .
After some discussion with hubby , we agreed that now might be the best time to get some basic agreements in place . Blackmail and bribery if you will !
For the first time in almost a year , we all sat down together to have a proper conversation about what was going on ( my daughter normally absolutely refuses point blank to contemplate this ) . For the first time , I started to get little glimmers of why she seems to shut off to us to such an extent . She is definitely angry that we moved States, that I do know . But I hadn't really appreciated that she is actually also angry that no one noticed she was struggling at the beginning of 9th grade . ( I thought it was usual teenage Behaviour ... Irritability , isolating herself in her room etc etc ) . It suddenly made sense to me and the bits are starting to add up . She has been feeling unnoticed and unheard. My husband normally avoids these types of conversations with a barge pole , but the therapist made a good point that he needs to have his say and tell my DD exactly what he thinks too , rather than me being the messenger all the time and being demonized for it ! He actually did very well , opened himself up to telling her he simply doesn't understand why she's so intent on hurting herself and scarring her body .Anyway , I digress !
Long story short , I got her to sign an agreement in order to get the car keys and made it quite clear , any breaches will mean no keys . Her dad even said the car will be sold faster than she can blink if she doesn't keep up her side of the bargain . Included in this agreement is weekly skin checks , therapy being a priority with no excuses / arguments ,every effort to be made to use other coping strategies and more effort on her part to start giving DBT a chance .
I don't know if we've done the right thing or not but my gut is saying we have the ideal bargaining tool right now , likely the best one we'll ever get !and it would be silly not to use it ! I'll let you know if it backfires !

Anyhoo ... .First night on half the original dose was last night . From 20mg, now down to 10mg . We shall see . Last time her dose was reduced from 20mg to 10 straight away , no halfway 15mg doseage and it didn't bode well ! Intrusive thoughts, paranoia and auditory hallucinations came back in abundance ! I'm a bit antsy! Sleeping with one eye open right now !

LP , I so sorry for hijacking your thread !

[Lollypop]

Hi YEP

No problem! Your own feelings reached a point that you changed your own behaviours in a positive way. I hope things improve for you both and of course your daughter.

We had a problem with our non-BPD son 15 earlier this year. I can really relate to what your saying about how your daughter is feeling "left out" or "unheard".  This was the root of my sons anxiety combined with his realisation that he was seriously slipping in school. We've both been working hard on better communication with him, got a tutor to help him (at our sons request) and thankfully our son has started to train again. A keen sportsman, he gave up all sport 5 months ago which really didn't help him but we accepted his choice. It's a really challenging time if life as they find out the person they are, we are and how we aren't all perfect!

LBJ said "my son was growing into a person that outgrows the person we raised him to be".  Something like that anyway. Basically, we struggled with his choice making.

I'd forgotten you'd moved countries. I moved around continually as a child across the Atlantic and had quite a unhappy insecure teenage hood.  I have some BPD traits.  I left home at 16. Different times now. I found it very hard to fit in - still do at 53!

Does your daughter have friends?

What sort of things does she enjoy?

Fabulous youre going to talk to a therapist! Well done you! I wished I'd gone to family therapy year's ago, we didn't because BPDs25 refused to go. Silly me, a missed opportunity.  It sounds as if you've moved into a new phase and feeling empowered.  Setting those boundaries while you're all getting help will be so beneficial to iron out those emotions as you go.

Keep working hard for your daughter but take care of yourself too. By taking care of yourself, your daughter learns how she can take care of herself.

Hugs
L

[Yepanotherone]

Ah we've not quite made it to family therapy yet LP , our conversation took place in our own living room , beginning with " if you want to come downstairs honey and have a proper conversation with us we might be able to reach some agreements ". Naturally she ran down those stairs faster than lightening as it seems getting the car keys just tops everything right now , including sulking in her bedroom.
It definitely went okay though , even though the vibe from her initially was screaming wow how long do I have to sit here , just tell me where I sign and give me the damn keys !   it did give me a sense of hope though that we are heading in the right direction , gearing up for actual family therapy with the therapist is definitely in our near future.
My DD does have friends, she seems to manage to make friends wherever she goes though in this last couple of years I know she's been quite hard work and demanding of them . Her friends in our last State all keep in touch and she's still besties with her friends in the UK . She's made some good friends in our new State  too and has a lovely new boyfriend . Goodness knows how he puts up with her ! She's not an easy girlfriend that's for sure ! She's a beautiful girl though, truely stunning , and can be extremely funny with a sharp , witty sense of humor and she is very charismatic so tends to be popular with her peers .
She used to enjoy Soccer, track, tumbling and color Guard . She's lost interest in those things in the last year since we moved and is more focused now on her part time job. She loves that , that's where she's met her group of friends and she enjoys the fast pace , being busy and making money .
There is no doubt in my mind that our move across the Atlantic took its toll on her ( she's never liked change . She was 10 when we made that move ) but our last move across States was just pushing our luck and I kick myself everyday that I didn't stand by my gut instinct which was to leave another move until she had at least finished high school . Benefits of hind sight are a wonderful thing !

How is your younger son doing ?