openness, candor or manipulation

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

yesterday I had an interesting conversation with my EX: according to her, she never lowered her barriers as much as with me; she exposed her whole soul and was defenseless; she trusted me and I betrayed her.
it is quite true that she told me all her secrets, even those I did not ask.
The result was a mixture of compassion and love, but also question and doubt; I wonder if I was the first and only one to hear all the details, sometimes murky details.
From her side is it candor, impulsivity, true love or manipulation? Did you experience the same situation?

[pgri8684]

yesterday I had an interesting conversation with my EX: according to her, she never lowered her barriers as much as with me; she exposed her whole soul and was defenseless; she trusted me and I betrayed her.
it is quite true that she told me all her secrets, even those I did not ask.
The result was a mixture of compassion and love, but also question and doubt; I wonder if I was the first and only one to hear all the details, sometimes murky details.
From her side is it candor, impulsivity, true love or manipulation? Did you experience the same situation?

[NewTring]

How did she say you betrayed her?

[bunny4523]

Honestly I feel like those statements are part of the  "hooks" that make it so hard for us to leave when things go bad.  Not that they do it deliberately.  I think they want to believe it, they want it to be true and it makes them feel like they have a unique relationship.   If you read enough about BPD it isn't about them "loving" another.  It is about them needing us to "love" them.      

I noticed my ex BPD would make statements over and over that I didn't relate to as being true... . almost in an attempt to convince himself. He also told me he never talked to anyone like he does with me and shared secrets... . so definate similarities there.

That is just my experience.  I did also see deliberate attempts of manipulation as well.  

Bunny

[rfriesen]

From her side is it candor, impulsivity, true love or manipulation? Did you experience the same situation?

My experience with my ex was all of the above. That is the hardest and most frustrating part of the relationship. I think my ex did lower her barriers with me and that we shared a tremendous connection. But when she would feel hurt or insecure, she would use our connection to manipulate me -- she knew how to hurt me because she knew me so well, she knew how to make me feel guilty because we shared such a deep connection and so of course I hated to see her sad (so I think she learned to be/look really sad when she needed/wanted something from me).

I think my ex longed for me to fix all of that big mess -- she would try showing the love she felt, she would try manipulating to get her way, she would try just being open and admitting to manipulating, she would try it all, but she was so unstable and angry and hurt inside that she couldn't keep on one track and work with me to fix it all. And because I couldn't fix it all on my own, she started to blame me and accuse me of failing her, etc.

I think we would all love for there to be some simple answers. But I've come to accept that simple answers don't apply to my relationship with me ex ... .

What do you feel you need the answers for? How will it help you moving forward to know what your ex's motivations were?

[pgri8684]

I'm not very proud of my attitude; we made plan to live together but when I saw the "big picture", it became obvious that I wasn't strong enough to save her. The more she spoke the more I doubted

[rfriesen]

I'm not very proud of my attitude; we made plan to live together but when I saw the "big picture", it became obvious that I wasn't strong enough to save her. The more she spoke the more I doubted

It's not a question of whether you're strong enough. People cannot be saved unless they are willing to work on themselves. My ex would also try to make me feel like I just needed to be stronger for her. But she carried a tremendous amount of anger and pain inside her and she was not willing to explore why or at least how she might learn to release it. She told me she didn't want to examine herself, that it was too painful.

We can't save someone who doesn't want to save herself. We can be supportive and loving, but if we simply sacrifice ourselves to their demands, then everyone is lost.

It's very painful, I know. Give some compassion to yourself as well, and look to see how you did the best you could.

[drained1996]

pgri8684,

The choice you made not to move in with her was obviously because you saw red flags on the way, and you made a choice to protect yourself.  Whether or not you are cognizant of that, it's surely what happened, and there is nothing to be ashamed for when you are watching out for YOU.  Rfriesn once again hit the nail on the head with his answer on candor, impulsivity, true love or manipulation.  His experience mirrors almost exactly to mine, and my understanding.
As for not being strong enough... .nobody can fix a broken person unless that broken person is willing to fix themselves.  In the case of BPD that means extensive and long term therapy with a highly qualified therapist.  You also would need therapy to know how to better protect yourself in a relationship like that, and how you could be the best you to help her on her journey.  
I'm thinking that vision of a future is not what you had in mind when you signed up to move in with her.  
Have you made choice to detach from her?

[drained1996]

sorry pgri, I caught up on your story, I'm guessing this conversation was at work.

[pgri8684]

Thank you all for your hints

to rfriesen: you're right, "she knew how to hurt me because she knew me so well" ; she noticed how I reacted when I felt such pain in her heart. In a softer way, her instinct knew how to hurt me.
"People cannot be saved unless they are willing to work on themselves" ... .this was my biggest mistake: I thought I could save her with my support, my help, my understanding and she would see the light

to drained1996: this conversation was at work, hopefully without to much passion or anger! She began therapy last January (once a month!) but gave up in May because "it was too painful and no progress was made"

I detach from her but it is not easy because we shared so much in the past... .

(sorry for my english)

[rfriesen]

She began therapy last January (once a month!) but gave up in May because "it was too painful and no progress was made"

That's all you need to know then. It means she would have put the burden entirely on you to make things better, and that's simply not possible if she's not willing to work with you. My ex went to one single therapy appointment and then gave up. ("I didn't really like the therapist," she said.) And I think the only reason she went is because I decided to see a therapist myself and by that point in the relationship she liked to keep tabs on me. She asked which clinic I was going to and booked an appointment the same night as mine (different therapist, thank god).

Then she would always ask about my appointments. I would be open with her (not tell her everything, but close) about my sessions, thinking that would build trust. Man, what a mistake. She just used those conversations to further frame the relationship as me working on things and her evaluating my progress. Whether or not she was really aware of what she was doing, my ex was a master manipulator. The silver lining is that the work of undoing all the hooks she dug into me, all the ways she pulled my strings, and tricks she played ... .it's taught me so much about myself.

My ex liked to tell me she was learning a lot from our relationship too, what mistakes she wouldn't make again. But I think (and obviously I'm not unbiased here) what she means is she's learned how to play the relationship game better, how to manipulate better. The twisted part is I really think that she doesn't even realise there's another kind of lesson a person could take from all the pain -- namely how to be open, sincere, truly intimate in a relationship, without manipulation and mind games! It makes me sad, really -- but her defences are so deeply entrenched and she's so terrified of true intimacy that she would read even a board like this one entirely through the perspective of, "how can I maintain the upper hand in a relationship?"

Sorry, this post has gone off the rails a little bit. I just want to let you know that, if your ex wasn't prepared to work on herself and to work with you in the relationship, then you absolutely made the right decision to detach. Some people are too scared to step out from their perspective of relationships as mind games, manipulation, and protecting themselves against being exposed (i.e. avoiding real intimacy). You could destroy yourself trying to get through to them.