Do I bring it up again?

[Annie99]

Last night in restaurant with uBPD h and S8, S8, waiting for food to arrive. Im working on a code on a napkin with one S8.  S8 says "how come you cant figure it out mom?" And h replies "Cause your mom is as dumb as a sack of hammers!" This is his idea of a joke. This type of "joke" has happened in the past and I fly off the handle and we will then go days without speaking to each other.  New enlightened me say" I don't find that funny. And I don't like anyone talking about me like that." H immediately shuts down, angry and ashamed. I say to him, calmly, "I know it wasn't your intent, but what you said was hurtful." Again no reply, no apology, complete shut down.

Bill arrives. Recently h has been leaving his wallet in the car, so I always have to take care of the bills (not a big deal from a financial standpoint as we have joint account) but I had already told myself that if he did it again this time, I would calmly request that he not just assume that I would take care of it (this is another new me, I have taken care of bills, kids, social life, taxes etc our whole marriage). I ask h ":)o you have your wallet?" He reples "no, its in the car". I briefly thought about not bringing this up, given he was already shut down and avoidant but I thought no, Im not avoiding things anymore.  So I said calmly " I dont like it assumed that I always will take care of the bills. I feel taken for granted." He said nothing.

We get home and he goes straight to bed 7PM. I put a movie on for the kids and watch it with them.  I check my feelings - no anger like in past, no guilt like in past- he shut down but I have done nothing wrong. He gets up around 9 PM and asks for one of my sleeping pills which I give him. He goes back to bed and I go sleep in the kids room. 

He gets up this morning and acts like everything is normal. I am wondering whether to bring this up again or if what I have said in the restaurant is enough ( I want to move away from pretending everything is okay when it isnt).  I havent received an apology, I dont really need one as once I spoke up for myself it felt like enough. But Im wondering if we shouldnt discuss the whole incident further.

He started crying today when he was in front of his computer. I asked him gently what was wrong and he said "Everything is wrong." I touched him gently on the arm but didnt discuss anything furhter as the kids were there and I didnt want to upset them.

So - do I discuss the incident further or just leave it?

[jrharvey]

I don't think you need to say anything else. You have made your point pretty clear. Apologies from someone with BPD are meaningless anyways. When my GF apologizes it usually always happens again. When I am strong and set a very clear boundary and she sees her actions wont make me budge then she changes. Apologies are just words. Actions are much better.

[icky]

wow annie - you have done amazingly well! i am in awe of you  : ). please "leave it at that" if you can. you've done a huge amount of good there. anything you add to it would detract from that. save your breath for the next situation that comes up (cos we all know it will) and then set the same gentle self-respect boundaries again, if you're able to. i cannot believe how well you handled that situation - you are my dealing-with-BPD-amazingly-well  hero!  . : ). what a beautifully calm, with slight, genuine emotion response it got from your husband! be on the look out for any delayed reactions that may arise today, tomorrow, this week - it's likely there will be some, so try not to be caught off your guard.

[Notwendy]

I agree that saying more will possibly make things worse, not better.

Like you, I want to discuss things with the goal of mutual understanding - but that hasn't worked for me because talking past a simple statement ( like you made) seems to make things worse.

I think it is because of the shame triggering. Your H got what you said. You know this because of the result- the change in his behavior. But he also understands what he did, and to speak more about it may feel too shaming to him.

A genuine apology is healing to a relationship, but I have found that this is very hard to get from someone with BPD or NPD.

I'm one who likes to talk things out, but it didn't work well for me. One book that I read helped me to understand this. It isn't about BPD marriages, or applies to all situations, but the ideas helped me to consider not talking so much. It is called "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It "

Also, the MC helped me to use less words and see action as the response. So, to enforce a boundary like you did, and to get the response- is enough. In fact what you did is great. You spoke up briefly, he stopped.

[formflier]

IMO... .leave it.  Perhaps in the future... .there will be more emotional safety to discuss such things.

    You did great standing up for yourself and modeling great behavior in front of kids.  Please don't worry about your hubby's behavior.  You modeled great behavior... .that is on you.  You are responsible for that.  He fell short of the mark on that... .he is responsible for that.


This is an imperfect science (art).  Insults wrapped up as a joke, especially in front of kids, is a 99.9% kinda thing where it needs to be addressed.

I sensed some reluctance on your part to address the wallet issue, especially next to how confident you seemed to feel about addressing the insult.  That tells me that you are developing some good instincts.

Perhaps in the future you may choose differently about the wallet or address it in a different way.  Personally, I would have asked directly ":)o you want me to pick up the tab this time or would you like to go out and get your wallet?"  Try to focus on problem solving... .vice emotions.  Please don't read anything in my words to say you did the "wrong" thing.  Please DO understand that you should spend more time considering if the "wallet issue" is worth the expenditure of energy.  It very well may be.

I asked him gently what was wrong and he said "Everything is wrong." I touched him gently on the arm but didnt discuss anything furhter as the kids were there and I didnt want to upset them.
 

Words matter... .  I have tried to eliminate the word "wrong" from my vocabulary with my wife.  At the urging of my P... .I try to consider that for my wife to be "wrong" cuts to her core.  I need to "bubble wrap that" and care for it... guard that.  Very different than saving herself from her actions that "prove" her wrongness... .I'm not involved in that.  I am involved to "adding" wrongness to what she is already thinking about.

options

I would suggest a friendly and open approach.  I would avoid a tone of "concern".  

"Hey... is something on your mind?"

"I'm here for you if you would like to talk... ."

"Would you like to share what you are feeling... "


Again... .great job standing up for yourself...

FF