Interesting joint session with Psychologist

[formflier]

The Wed night church dinner thing didn't come up. 

The focus of the meeting was "what do we do next".  We as a group of 3 and "we" and a marriage.

The overwhelming message was " I don't know... ." with a little bit of "let's just each do our own thing".

She says she is seeing a mentor for "her issues", but very vague.

Reports that she likes the things that I have learned and the skills the P has taught me.  That things are much better.   ( I know... .I know... . )

The issue the P focused on what "how do I help FF if all I am hearing is his perspective.  How do I get feedback from you? "  There finally was agreement that ff wife could email.

Several times the P stopped things and inquired about my wife's comfort... wife claimed to be fine but clearly wasn't.

My wife wants to work with her mentor (lay person at church) and wants me to work with P but wants to do no work on the marriage.  P changed her demeanor and said she felt morally and ethically bound to tell  her that the research shows that leads to far greater distance in the marriage than closeness.  P pressed her if this was ok.

All wife could say was "I just want a break... ."

P pivots:  Asks what is it about mentor that attracted FF wife to her.  My wife perked up and said she only wanted to work with people that have same religious beliefs as she does.

P was still gentle but surprisingly direct:  "It sounds like you are making an assumption about my beliefs in deciding to not work with me."  (big pause... .my wife stammers a bit).

P:  Would you like to know about my beliefs.

FF wife:  "I just want to work with my mentor... "

Then my wife says we'll start marriage counseling again in January because that is when BC has said we can restart it.  P asks what we do from now until then.  My wife doesn't say much.

We did handle some parenting issues after P pivoted and said some family stuff needed to be talked about. 

We finished up joint meeting discussing signing releases so BC and P could talk.  We talked through communication issues that have come up and I expressed desire for "directness" vice passing messages.  My wife will think about it.

Then my wife asked to speak with her alone.  I went for a walk and then talked for 30-40 minutes. 

Lots of head scratching on my end...

FF

[babyducks]

Does your wife not have the expectation of privacy and confidentiality in a joint session with the P?

[Notwendy]

My wife wants to work with her mentor (lay person at church) and wants me to work with P but wants to do no work on the marriage.  P changed her demeanor and said she felt morally and ethically bound to tell  her that the research shows that leads to far greater distance in the marriage than closeness.  P pressed her if this was ok.

All wife could say was "I just want a break... ."

P pivots:  Asks what is it about mentor that attracted FF wife to her.  My wife perked up and said she only wanted to work with people that have same religious beliefs as she does.

P was still gentle but surprisingly direct:  "It sounds like you are making an assumption about my beliefs in deciding to not work with me."  (big pause... .my wife stammers a bit).

P:  Would you like to know about my beliefs.

FF wife:  "I just want to work with my mentor... "


FF, boundaries can go both ways. You upheld yours. Your wife has stated clearly, more than once, that she just wants to work one on one with her mentor.

You have a personal relationship with the P, but your wife is there as a couple with you. You and P are on the same page. Wife states her boundaries, P pushes her.

If I were in her shoes, I would feel like this was two on one. She says she is comfortable with her mentor.

If you expect her to respect you and your boundaries, can you do the same for her?

[formflier]

Does your wife not have the expectation of privacy and confidentiality in a joint session with the P?

Yes... .but... .she also expects to be able to tell people about what happens, if she wants or "needs" to tell them.

Basically, when emotions get fired up, ends will justify the means.

Very frustrating.

FF

[formflier]

If you expect her to respect you and your boundaries, can you do the same for her?

Yes... .but... .there needs to be a clear answer about how they work and a clear understanding of what can and can't be talked about there.   Especially since the person she is talking to is an lay person.  Essentially she is talking to a friend that is advising her about how to be a biblical wife.

One reason that there was a bit of a "press" is that there have been a ton of conflicting messages lately.

She wants open communication and review of emails so everyone understands each other (BC and P)... .this was her idea.  She proceeded without releases and spread stuff around then doesn't want to "properly" give releases.  My only option would be to "improperly" release stuff to the P.

Sigh.

FF

[babyducks]

Yes... .but... .she also expects to be able to tell people about what happens, if she wants or "needs" to tell them.

so when your wife does it, it's frustrating but when you recount here detailed specific confidences your wife shared with a professional in a clinical setting, it's okay?    How does work exactly?

[formflier]

Anonymity is the biggest part. 

My feelings and thoughts shared in a T session... .one where releases and permissions were discussed and understood... .we're then taken and passed on to person that is not a T... .that shared it with another... .and then 3 people at church had a meeting about it.

And... .based on what my wife told me that she told them... .she didn't relay the information accurately.

Now... .people at the church that I don't want involved in my business... .are involved.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

So, FF, are you OK about doing MC with the BC again?

I understand how your wife sharing private matters with a lay person, who may not understand professional confidentiality the way a therapist does, might feel like your personal family issues could get spread throughout the church community. 

Is there any way to speak to this and not have your dirty laundry aired publicly?

[formflier]

So, FF, are you OK about doing MC with the BC again?

Last time I was fairly "compliant" and there were only a few issues that I didn't "budge" on.  One of which got me "kicked out" of counseling.

Sure... .I would go back.  But the BC would experience the FF that you guys have experienced over the the "wallet caper" thread.  (doesn't have the same ring to it as the "buggy caper" does it?"

Looking back... .there were several times I should have done a "fix this or bring in your supervisor" type of thing... and didn't.  Probably should do a new thread on this.  

But... direct answer.   Yes I would do it again... .but boundaries would look very different.  I seriously doubt he would go along with it.

Why do you ask?

I understand how your wife sharing private matters with a lay person, who may not understand professional confidentiality the way a therapist does, might feel like your personal family issues could get spread throughout the church community.  

Is there any way to speak to this and not have your dirty laundry aired publicly?

There is history here with a pattern of my wife spreading stuff in other churches and leaving a trail of broken relationships.  That is one reason I want to "get in front" of this issue.

Working on a letter to send.  On advice of the P... .breaking it up into several different letters.  Using the idea of putting separate problems in separate buckets.  Hoping to get a letter out to the church this week.  About 2/3rds done with the P.

As you can imagine... .after some coaching from her... .letter reads much... .much better than the one we were editing on here.  Still... .using bpdfamily helped me clarify my thoughts and goals.  P is helping me communicate those better.

FF

[Notwendy]

I wonder if at some point the members of the church will catch one. There is one particular member who caused much interpersonal destruction in my community but we are all "on" to that one. In fact, it was dealing with this member and googling the behaviors that got me on the path to looking at BPD and NPD many years ago.

It is frustrating to deal with though. I think the hard part is that even someone with a disorder is free to make his/her own decisions. I desperately wanted my H to do MC with me, but he refused for years and nothing I could do could change that. Also, my mother has dismissed therapy at the suggestion of many people- health care workers, social workers, family and friends.

It is very hard to watch someone make decisions we feel are not in the best interest of the family or themselves, but unless they are deemed incompetent, we have no control over them. Of course we can take means to protect ourselves and our children if we have to.

But we can not force anyone who is legally able to consent to have therapy.

[formflier]

I think some are starting to catch on.  The advice of the P is to help "point" them in the right direction, vice come right out and say something that my wife can then start refuting.

For instance:  Some of the info disclosed by my wife is covered by a signed confidentiality agreement that  BC knows about.

In other words... .she disclosed, signed an agreement not to disclose again... .and... .you guessed it.  Disclosed again.

She has hinted that she "forgot"... .but promises not to disclose again. 

This was after BC pushed me to hand her the info in the first place.  I claimed she couldn't be trusted... .he claimed she could be.  He now knows... .  Sigh.

FF

[empath]

Yes... .but... .she also expects to be able to tell people about what happens, if she wants or "needs" to tell them.

As I understand it, she can do that if she chooses, at least legally. The patient 'owns' the right to disclose as they want; the professional does not.

[formflier]

Yes... .but... .she also expects to be able to tell people about what happens, if she wants or "needs" to tell them.

As I understand it, she can do that if she chooses, at least legally. The patient 'owns' the right to disclose as they want; the professional does not.

It gets a bit weird and iffy... .legally... .when disclosing about someone else. 

I totally agree with you if patient wants to disclose what they said or P said to them. 

Get's even muddier when you incorrectly disclose about the other person.

FF