How do you explain NC to small children?

[my_memories]

My son (4) has what I call "grandparent envy" - I'm NC with my parents and my MIL is mostly absent. Occasionally, my son asks me about my parents. He is familiar with death (a family pet died and my FIL passed away) so he tends to ask me if my mom or dad is dead.

I tell him honestly that they aren't dead, as far as I know, but that I don't talk to them. He always asks why - and I tell him honestly that we don't get along and that it was a tough thing for me to decide. Recently, he has asked me to call them. My uBPD mother was abused by her mother - she never talked about it. It was important to me to be open and honest, I don't want my parents to become these mysterious characters to him so I'm trying to address it head-on.

Has anyone else coped with this issue? How did you deal? Do you have any advice?

[Turkish]

This sounds similar to adopted kids who ruminate about their bio parents.  If the adoptive parents tend to hide things,  it usually results in the kids desiring even more to know.  

I see that you give some background in your other recent post:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=299606.0

Being honest,  age appropriately,  is probably best.  Has their been any feelers on their side to reach out to you about their grandson since he's been born?

[Fie]

Hello  

I think you are doing a terrific job being so honest with your child.

Our society puts a big emphasis on family. I also happen to think it's very important, but unfortunately both my mum and my grandmother are BPD, and I hardly ever see my parents.
It was them who initiated the LC, and they have never really showed an interest in my daughter either (she's now 8). We did still go to family gatherings on special occasions like birthdays, christmas, etc.

Some two years ago my daughter asked me not to go to her grandparents anymore except if her cousins were there, since grandma and grandpa also never visit us.

I used to think it was my task to connect my child with my mum and dad. Now I realize it's not. It's them who are not interested in seeing us, for their own reasons (I don't fit enough into the dysfunction). So since not so long I don't go to the family gatherings anymore. It's not worth the emotional turmoil for me. When going there, it stresses me out, not only on the day itself but also weeks before and after. So it's simply not worth it.

In the beginning my daughter still asked about her great grandmother. I have a very good friend who knows about the situation, and she takes my child to go see her sometimes. I do make a separation between the relationnship me/my grandma and my child/my grandma. I don't want that later my daughter will have me to blame for not have known her great grandmother. I do point out however that the reason I'm not taking her there, is that grandma's behavior towards me is not nice. I try to tell her that in a respectful way so not to hurt the image of great grandma. Usually I am telling her that grandma has something that is not wired correctly in her brain (how else to tell unexplainable things... .), and that she drank too much in her life. I do also emphasize that towards my child great grandma has never done anything out of the odd, so she can visit her if she wants.

My daughter is not really interested in calling, not her grandparents, nor her great grandma.
If she would ask me though, I think I would allow it, but only because I would not have a lot of stress from that. Visiting is too much stress, so I don't do it. Since short I have also come to realize that it's not up to me to create a relationship between my daughter and my FOO - on the contrary. She might be better of without them.


So in your situation I think everything depends on how you feel about it. If you decide that your son is able to call your mum, how will you feel about that ? Will that cause a lot of stress for you ? Do you think you can handle that, especially now with your pregnancy ? Calling his grandma probably means that first an adult needs to dial the number. Maybe your husband can do that for him, maybe while you are not at home ? It's also a good idea to put them on speaker, so your husband can listen if nothing inappropriate is being said to your son by your mum.

Phoning is something completely different then visiting. You are in a situation where your family is changing. A new member is soon going to be born. That does not mean you have to drag your mum back in, when this is something you would not be comfortable with.
And remember what they say : the best predictor for behavior is past behavior. There's no reason why your mum would act differently towards your children, than she has towards you.
As a child you were not able  to protect yourself from her. You are an adult now, and you are able to protect both your son and your daughter.


I hope some of this helps. I also wanted to let you know that it's wonderful to see how you are thinking about everything, having both the interest of your son, and your even not yet born daughter (your question about her in your other post) in mind. If only more mothers were like that.  

[Sunfl0wer]

I have used those times as an opportunity to teach my son values/boundaries.  
"Grandma screams about things too much.  Grandmas are not supposed to do that. It is not ok to be around people who scream, instead of talk.  I don't like getting screamed at so I don't/won't visit often.  I don't think it is ok for someone to scream at you either, especially a grandma, an uncle, a teacher, etc."

Thing is though that I then have to be prepared that if he repeats me to anyone, that I am ok with this.  He did sometimes, I was ok with it.  I stated things in a way that no one could/should deny. (Instead of talking about things like manipulations) Grandma DOES scream!  So if anyone was going to say not nice of him to say, well, then if they want me to lie to my kid to spare their feelings, I'm not ok with that, that is THEIR problem, not mine.

I remember my mom was cursing, my son picked up on it, she asked where he had learned to say such a thing.   . I explained that she was the only person in his life that used that specific curse.  (It was a cultural curse he could have only known from her) Then she immediately cursed using the same phrase, cursed then said that it wasn't true that she ever said it in front of him! (He was there as she said it denying it!)  Lmao!  

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey APME_2008:   

I'm so sorry about the grandparent situation for your son. You might find the information in the quote below helpful.  The address to the article is at the beginning of the post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/carolyn-hax-protecting-the-kids-when-parents-grandparents-are-estranged/2016/01/05/be7a7f70-b00d-11e5-b820-eea4d64be2a1_story.html

A guide for talking to young kids is, don’t lie, don’t ignore, don’t dump everything in their laps. Stay within those three walls by heeding their curiosity and releasing small pieces of truth, followed by a pause to allow your child to respond. When the questions stop, that’s your signal that you’ve said enough.

Just respond when you’re asked: “Gram and Gramps won’t be here this time, I’m sorry.” That might be all there is to it — kids let you know when they’re ready for more by asking you for more.

If one of your children does ask why, then you can say: “The adults have some things to work out before we all get together again.”

Even if hostility was extended to or was focused on your children, take care not to say anything a little person might interpret as “It’s our fault Grams can’t come.” Even words carefully chosen by adults to prevent this can sound very different when filtered through a child’s mind and worldview; instead of “Grams was unkind to you,” stick with “Grams was unkind.”

Again — this is only if your child’s curiosity warrants taking your explanation that far. 

[my_memories]

Has their been any feelers on their side to reach out to you about their grandson since he's been born?

My parents were active stalkers for a while - they tried on Mothers Day (typical) but I block them and ignore. I've been very clear that I do not intend to ever communicate with them again and any contact is unwelcome.

As my mother was secretive about her past, I relied strongly on my NPD father to understand. As he was a pathological liar, it's hard to know what her truth was. I wish she could have been honest with me.

My son is a super feeler, he is very sensitive so I worry about telling him too much.

[my_memories]

So in your situation I think everything depends on how you feel about it. If you decide that your son is able to call your mum, how will you feel about that ? Will that cause a lot of stress for you ? Do you think you can handle that, especially now with your pregnancy ? Calling his grandma probably means that first an adult needs to dial the number. Maybe your husband can do that for him, maybe while you are not at home ? It's also a good idea to put them on speaker, so your husband can listen if nothing inappropriate is being said to your son by your mum.

Phoning is something completely different then visiting. You are in a situation where your family is changing. A new member is soon going to be born. That does not mean you have to drag your mum back in, when this is something you would not be comfortable with.
And remember what they say : the best predictor for behavior is past behavior. There's no reason why your mum would act differently towards your children, than she has towards you.
As a child you were not able  to protect yourself from her. You are an adult now, and you are able to protect both your son and your daughter.

Thank you for your thoughts - I'm firm on the no-contact. My parents are toxic people, my BPD mother creates her own truth. When I initially went low contact, they told everyone in my extended family that I was mentally ill as a way of explaining my lack of attendance to things. The BPD/NPD combination is dangerous, from my experience. For them, the situation created an opportunity for narcissistic supply and attention - and the stories they were willing to create really saddened me and made me realize how far they were willing to go to force me into their lives. To be honest with you, my biggest concern is that any contact will give them a window to call child services and complain about my parenting.

I'm very open with our friends; it is well known that I will support him in talking to them when he is an adult and better equipped to deal with manipulative, toxic people.

All that to say, it's hard to know how to communicate that to a four year old.

[my_memories]

Thing is though that I then have to be prepared that if he repeats me to anyone, that I am ok with this.  He did sometimes, I was ok with it.  I stated things in a way that no one could/should deny. (Instead of talking about things like manipulations) Grandma DOES scream!  So if anyone was going to say not nice of him to say, well, then if they want me to lie to my kid to spare their feelings, I'm not ok with that, that is THEIR problem, not mine.

I love this! It is so true - my son is trying to understand the NC. As he has never met them, he often assumes that they are dead. I tell him openly that they aren't - but that it is not possible for me to have a relationship with them because they are mean to me. I tell him that it makes me sad and that it was a tough decision but that I am happy that I did it as it meant I felt safe. I don't think I would have been okay with the world knowing this a few years ago - shame is a powerful thing! But now, I don't care if he tells everyone  I just find it hard to know the level of detail to share - he brings it up often, which means to me that he has questions but maybe doesn't know how to ask them.

[my_memories]

Hey APME_2008:   
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/carolyn-hax-protecting-the-kids-when-parents-grandparents-are-estranged/2016/01/05/be7a7f70-b00d-11e5-b820-eea4d64be2a1_story.html

Thank you for this! I approach the sex talks in the same way (ha!) - I find he keeps bringing it up, which makes me believe that he doesn't understand or he has more questions. I try to answer honestly and openly so that he feels he can tell me what is on his mind. As an extrovert raising an introvert, I find it hard to know what's going on in his mind as he needs to take time to think about what I've told before raising it again (if that makes sense?)

[HDLJ]

I'm dealing with the exact same thing - my son is 4 and adores his Grandmother.  He doesn't understand why she can't come to our house and why he can't see her.  For two years we have only gone to see her at her house or met up somewhere with her (we live in different states).  We put up some boundaries by not allowing her to come to our home because she couldn't stop saying and doing offensive things to my husband who is of another race.  We wanted a safe space in our home where we didn't have stress and drama and disrespect.  We recently went no contact with her after a huge blowup that she started while on vacation with her.  She did this in front of my son and other extended family members.  She demonized me and my husband and tried to confuse my son and have him blaming his father about her not being able to come to our house.  Along with it breaking my heart seeing my son upset, I am also feeling guilt about our no contact.  But I worry about my marriage and her uncontrolled behavior affecting each of us - including my son.  Last night we sat him down and just acknowledged how important his Grandmother is to him and how we all love her.  We said we are not getting along and we all just need to give it time because right now we can't be around Grandma.  We were also honest about the fact that she says and does some hurtful things and that we hope someday she will stop.

[my_memories]

Last night we sat him down and just acknowledged how important his Grandmother is to him and how we all love her.  We said we are not getting along and we all just need to give it time because right now we can't be around Grandma.  We were also honest about the fact that she says and does some hurtful things and that we hope someday she will stop.

Good for you! I know it's really tough when you start going NC - taking a break and getting some space can really help a lot. Let me know how it goes - I admire your honesty with your son! they really love the grandparents at this age, sigh.