Wife flies out with three children for Christmas and New Year

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have a written request by my stb ex-wife to have the children for Christmas and New Year this year as she will be away. To which I sent a written agreement.

I made arrangements to take leave, booked two holidays, one over Christmas and one over New Year for the children and my family so the cousins can be together.

Made arrangements for the children to spend the first two nights 21'st and 22'nd with my parents and I was going to join them today.

I received a letter from their lawyer on the 21'st saying that W and the three children were now in Cape town and will be there for Christmas and New year. I can resume parental visitation on 9 January.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked! No kids, no Christmas , no New Year.

Any advice out there?

[Moselle]

I have a written request by my stb ex-wife to have the children for Christmas and New Year this year as she will be away. To which I sent a written agreement.

I made arrangements to take leave, booked two holidays, one over Christmas and one over New Year for the children and my family so the cousins can be together.

Made arrangements for the children to spend the first two nights 21'st and 22'nd with my parents and I was going to join them today.

I received a letter from their lawyer on the 21'st saying that W and the three children were now in Cape town and will be there for Christmas and New year. I can resume parental visitation on 9 January.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked! No kids, no Christmas , no New Year.

Any advice out there?

[ropend]

Find out what she wants in exchange for the kids being with you, record the conversation.

Get a lawyer.

[Moselle]

Hi Ropend,

There's a bit of history here. I do have a lawyer.

In April we were in mediation to divorce. While I was away on business, she left with the children, packed the house, dogs, car trailer and drove 1200km to live with her seriously disordered family, Filed for Divorce, and filed a Bogus DV claim, 3 of them actually.

After 3 months I got those dismissed, and started alternate weekend visitation in August, That has continued until this crazy episode.

I'm also NC. Only email correspondence now.

[livednlearned]

How awful! That would break my heart to have plans smashed like that. Are you in a position to travel to where the kids are at?

Was there an official parenting plan or custody order that spells out where the kids were supposed to spend the holidays?

In the US, we would file a motion for contempt if the order was violated. If you wanted to modify the order and give it more teeth, that's also a possibility, and a slightly different tactic.

At this point, it comes down to how you want to roll this into long-term goals, versus how you want to handle things short-term. Again in the US, by the time things are in family law court, that tends to be the only form of authority that can influence compliance. And that's expensive and draining.

For some people, they will wait until four or five things rack up, and then file to show a pattern.

Do you want more custodial time with your kids?

[ForeverDad]

I have a written request by my stb ex-wife to have the children for Christmas and New Year this year as she will be away. To which I sent a written agreement.

I made arrangements to take leave, booked two holidays, one over Christmas and one over New Year for the children and my family so the cousins can be together.

Made arrangements for the children to spend the first two nights 21'st and 22'nd with my parents and I was going to join them today.

I received a letter from their lawyer on the 21'st saying that W and the three children were now in Cape town and will be there for Christmas and New year. I can resume parental visitation on 9 January.

So she offered you those two holidays and you accepted?  I don't think she can withdraw the offer and subsequent acceptance unilaterally.  You local legal advice may guide you as to what you ought to do.  The fact that (1) she offered, (2) you accepted and (3) you made plans including taking off work which maybe can't be undone means you at least have an ethical case, how much weight it carries legally is the deciding factor.

Here in the USA I can't file a Contempt of Court motion (if there is an order) until the order is violated.  Intention to or blustering to violate doesn't mean the order is violated, not until it happens.  So I guess my question is what is your order?  Is her offer and your acceptance considered binding by your courts?  Could her history of obstructing your parenting be made a part of any legal action you choose to take?  (That she moved away may not be considered obstruction but perhaps her filing unsubstantiated allegations could be.)

So what happens if you respond to her lawyer with copies of her offer and your acceptance and decline to cancel the prior arrangements?  (Are the children to come to you or are you flying/driving to them?)  State you will proceed with the pre-existing plans which you went to great effort to arrange and you don't accept her attempt to cancel at this late date.  Also state (lawyer helps word it?) that if your visit with the children is obstructed in any way that, reluctantly, you will seek appropriate legal action in court.

":)ear Mr Lawyer, Based upon Ex's prior communication and my acceptance, I've made extensive plans and arrangement for my time with the children.  I'm so sorry but I can't allow any drastic changes at virtually the last minute.  If my time with the children as previously agreed to is cancelled or obstructed to any extent then I may be forced to pursue legal resolution in family/children's court.  My Ex and I have an obligation to not only comply with the court order but also other agreements we may make.  There can be understandable exceptions, of course, such as if the children are hospitalized or some other drastic emergency involving them.  But so far as I have been made aware, there are no exceptional circumstances here.  Therefore I will proceed with the children's visit as arranged."  Then, with a reply that you don't agree to the cancellation, if you were obstructed you would have some level of basis to turn to the court for aid, if not regarding this instance which by then is past, then to set stronger rules for future arrangements.

What is the current court order regarding holidays?  It is typical that each parent gets half of the holidays.  In my area they're alternated during the year and then the next year the parents get the ones they didn't get the year before.  For parents separated by great distances they usually are granted the longer holidays since school is generally out of sessions at those times, or a large portion of them, due to the distance involved.

That's me.  What you do, well, that's your choice.  What will be your boundary henceforth when your parenting is sabotaged?

As for the future, what are your long term goals?  How can you get more parenting?  Is there any legal basis for the court to have her return to your area?  (In the USA the state or county of residence - generally requires 6 months residency there for custody issues - is where the case is held.)  Or are you able to move closer so you can reasonably seek more than alternate weekends? (Not too close or she'll finagle more allegations!)  Maybe you can get more time allotted to you when school is not in session?

[david]

Sounds like this is the second time she has done something like this.

I think contacting her attorney asap and see what happens is the best approach. Her attorney may not know all the facts and would advise her client accordingly.

If nothing gets settled I would think you could seek civil damages, at least in the US, for the money lost in wages plus whatever else you spent. It could be triple damages awarded. That would be setting a boundary for future occurrences.

[Moselle]

How awful! That would break my heart to have plans smashed like that. Are you in a position to travel to where the kids are at?

Was there an official parenting plan or custody order that spells out where the kids were supposed to spend the holidays?

In the US, we would file a motion for contempt if the order was violated. If you wanted to modify the order and give it more teeth, that's also a possibility, and a slightly different tactic.

Thanks L&L. I don't know where exactly they are staying in any case, only the city, and the children are too scared to tell too much because they know I'll come for them, and they fear the conflict so much. My heart was broken!. That was four days ago. I have decided to stay alone, by myself, not to travel to my family either. This has been a wild, wild year, and sleeping in on the 24th helped me realise just how much I have paid in personal costs health, energy, money, time. I have cleaned the apartment cooked for myself and allowed my thoughts to settle a bit. It has been a gift actually. I am gathering my strength for a major filing in January. I have a Section 43 (South African Law) order from the high court stipulating shared holidays. She even asked me in writing to take them for this holiday, which I accepted in writing. I am going to file a contempt order.  She cannot catch me with DV's or any other silly thing any more, because we have no contact, and I realise now when she is baiting me.

The legal wheels turn slowly, but they turn. I started off in April really on the back foot. I've gained the upper hand over time, and this will surely show her true colours to the court!

[Moselle]

":)ear Mr Lawyer, Based upon Ex's prior communication and my acceptance, I've made extensive plans and arrangement for my time with the children.  I'm so sorry but I can't allow any drastic changes at virtually the last minute.  If my time with the children as previously agreed to is cancelled or obstructed to any extent then I may be forced to pursue legal resolution in family/children's court.  My Ex and I have an obligation to not only comply with the court order but also other agreements we may make.  There can be understandable exceptions, of course, such as if the children are hospitalized or some other drastic emergency involving them.  But so far as I have been made aware, there are no exceptional circumstances here.  Therefore I will proceed with the children's visit as arranged."  Then, with a reply that you don't agree to the cancellation, if you were obstructed you would have some level of basis to turn to the court for aid, if not regarding this instance which by then is past, then to set stronger rules for future arrangements.

I sent the following 2 days ago to her lawyer and her.

I raise the following matters:

- It was agreed in writing to have the children for Christmas at exW's request.

- Arrangements including taking leave, planning two vacations, one to the South Coast with my parents and one to Sodwana Bay with the children's cousins, which the children had expressed excitement for, had been made.

- There was no correspondence regarding any change of plans and I was informed after you had left.

This is highly disrespectful, shows gross parental negligence and traumatic change for the children.

I do not give you permission to take the children to Cape Town.

I fully expect to see my children on Christmas day (Friday 25 December). Kindly make arrangements to have them present? Failure to do so will result in matters being referred for judgement.

Yours Sincerely,

Moselle

[ForeverDad]

There's little for a parent to do in the moment when the other parent ignores the order, agreements and all the rest.  However, if nothing is done to address this then it sets a precedent that "Mozelle says No (correct) but lets it happen anyway (we're stuck with following court orders and court procedures) and doesn't do anything afterward anyway."  So the follow-through is what matters.

[ropend]

Hi Ropend,

There's a bit of history here. I do have a lawyer.

In April we were in mediation to divorce. While I was away on business, she left with the children, packed the house, dogs, car trailer and drove 1200km to live with her seriously disordered family, Filed for Divorce, and filed a Bogus DV claim, 3 of them actually.

After 3 months I got those dismissed, and started alternate weekend visitation in August, That has continued until this crazy episode.

I'm also NC. Only email correspondence now.

Terrible situation.

What does your lawyer say?

[Moselle]

Yes, I will file for contempt of court in the new year. I realise that I have to throw the kitchen sink at her as a lesson. 5 year old !

Lawyer's said similar to the advice here. I decided not to do emergency manoeuvres over the festive season, but will have here served in the new year in a contempt of court action.

Crazy disease this. I'm amazed how many stupid things she does.

[david]

My ex ran away in 2007. She literally emptied our house a month later. She then filed a homeowners claim saying I stole everything and made it look like she did it. I got a letter from our homeowners insurance explaining that you can't rob yourself and then make a claim. I had to read it three times before the reality of what she actually tried to do sunk in. Then, I laughed so hard I had tears rolling out of my eyes. She posted dozens of photos on facebook of her new place. The pictures showed the majority of things she claimed I stole. I gave it all to my attorney. We went through equitable distribution and she again made most of the same claims. She valued our assets at 1.2 million dollars. In reality it was about 30,000. However, since I had all the evidence I decided to agree with her valuation and I simply wanted my half in cash. Her attorney made her settle minutes after the facts came out.

I was amazed back then too. Now, if she does something "normal", I am pleasantly surprised. That doesn't happen often.

[david]

It took my ex a few times to understand that our court order applied to her too. Now, I simply state the part of our order that she is not following in an email and she changes her mind. It does get easier once you establish the boundary.

[ropend]

It took my ex a few times to understand that our court order applied to her too. Now, I simply state the part of our order that she is not following in an email and she changes her mind. It does get easier once you establish the boundary.

Thankfully we live in an information age.

Just keep documenting the awful things she does and eventually a judge will throw the book at her.

[Moselle]

I'm rsurrecting tjhis post one year later, becuase my ex is indicating that she is going to do the same thing.

She is going ape at the moment with the threat of the loss of control of our three children for three weeks.

She sent an email to me that I should not pick up the children and I will see them next year.

A short recap. The day before she was supposed to hand them over last year, she flew them 2000 km away for Christmas and new year. Friends convinced me not to fly there and find them, and I spent Christmas alone, choosing not to try and have her arrested. We are divorced now, and there is a High court order making it very clear that the children are to stay with me. There was an interim high court order last year stating the same, but she paid no heed then. And is seemingly thinking the same way this year.

My laywer said do a preemptive strike and inform the police of her written intentions. The police were fantastic and they phoned her to tell her that she would be arrested if she did not hand the children over.

I am praying we dont have drama this year.

24 hours to go.

[david]

Depending on how entitled she thinks she is she just may have to go to jail. That is one heck of a boundary. Having the police contact her is probably much better than you doing it. My ex would listen and do what the police say to her.

[livednlearned]

I'm so sorry, Moselle

Being handcuffed and thrown in jail is the only boundary my ex acknowledged, too. It sounds like your ex may be the same.

How do you plan to talk to the kids when you see them?

[david]

Remember, you did not get her put in jail. She did not follow the judges order and judges don't like that. I always said that when we went to court, in the beginning, when ex blamed me for going to court when she wasn't following the order. I simply told them I didn't want mom or me to get in trouble with the judge.

[ForeverDad]

Remember, you did not get her put in jail. She did not follow the judges order and judges don't like that. I always said that when we went to court, in the beginning, when ex blamed me for going to court when she wasn't following the order. I simply told them I didn't want mom or me to get in trouble with the judge.

This is an important perspective and approach.  Let the police, lawyers and judges take the blame for the orders, that's part of their jobs after all, maybe it will divert and blunt her heightened emotions against you.

And... .it is what it is.

[Moselle]

Depending on how entitled she thinks she is she just may have to go to jail. That is one heck of a boundary. Having the police contact her is probably much better than you doing it. My ex would listen and do what the police say to her.

I don't know what she is going to do david. I'm hoping she is not going to do "crazy"

I'm so sorry, Moselle

Being handcuffed and thrown in jail is the only boundary my ex acknowledged, too. It sounds like your ex may be the same.

How do you plan to talk to the kids when you see them?

D15 already sent me an email from her mothers account saying she wants to stay with her mom for Christmas. It's already a mess. They will be angry, I will try to diffuse it with some humour and fun.

Remember, you did not get her put in jail. She did not follow the judges order and judges don't like that. I always said that when we went to court, in the beginning, when ex blamed me for going to court when she wasn't following the order. I simply told them I didn't want mom or me to get in trouble with the judge.

This is an important perspective and approach.  Let the police, lawyers and judges take the blame for the orders, that's part of their jobs after all, maybe it will divert and blunt her heightened emotions against you.

And... .it is what it is.

Thanks folks, that is reassuring. I felt a bit of guilt already. You are right, its all firmly in her court.

These people (her family) are so arrogant, they act like they are the only people in the world. Narcisstic Borderline family. They have such a hold on my girls. Its like a club you never leave.

[Moselle]

Thanks for the support everyone. Children handed over

3 weeks of fun to come

[david]

Good to hear. Have a good three weeks.

Ex followed the boundary and that is a good sign. Boundaries do work. Now, you just have to figure out what other boundaries you can establish to make things better for you and the kids. I've noticed that as I got better with establishing and enforcing/following through with consequences my ex didn't challenge me as much. I only communicate through email and I do believe that helps. There is no cues from the tone of my voice so any emotional aspect is eliminated. Monotone works to my advantage.

Another thought, your kids may be under serious pressure at their moms to join the attack against you. I wouldn't take any of it personally. They are learning how to survive in that environment. My kids used to do the same. They were much younger and as they got older they figured ways to avoid ex without attacking me. I used to have chaotic transitions between the homes. It used to take them over an hour to "normalize". That doesn't really happen anymore.