The disorder wins

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

The first step is to commit to 100% NC, then given enough time you WILL see things clearly enough to be able to have the confidence to venture out and rebuild; this is a reminder to me as well because I also am struggling with rebuilding.

It's taken me 11 months to realise that NC is the only way I'm going to get over all this. I'm now committed. You're on a similar time frame and are proof that it's a good option. We'll rebuild LN. Bigger and better. What choice do we have.

[Larmoyant]

The first step is to commit to 100% NC, then given enough time you WILL see things clearly enough to be able to have the confidence to venture out and rebuild; this is a reminder to me as well because I also am struggling with rebuilding.

It's taken me 11 months to realise that NC is the only way I'm going to get over all this. I'm now committed. You're on a similar time frame and are proof that it's a good option. We'll rebuild LN. Bigger and better. What choice do we have.

[babyducks]

Hi Larmoyant

I seem to really struggle with whether or not he means what he's doing. Sometimes it seem so calculated, like he aims to wound me, yet he is clearly disordered so maybe he can't help it.

His wants and needs will always come first.

His wants and needs will always come first.   He will always define the terms.    He will rarely consider your feeling and will only do so if it serves his needs or wants in some ways.

Is it calculated, yes.  Does he mean it, yes.  He 'means' to protect his damaged self.  He needs to protect his damaged self at all costs.  His needs and wants will always come first.  It's not personally aimed at you, because, as I said above,  this isn't about us.   

In a healthy relationship there is a give and take, often negotiated.   

It seems to matter to me to know whether or not he means it, but does it really make a difference. The outcome I described above would still be the same wouldn't it. 

Yes.   Yes it would be the same. 

Yes, learning has helped me to understand and makes me feel better, but I've also been making it an excuse for his terrible treatment of me. As if it gives him some sort of free pass. 

When a person with BPD has a free pass they will run to extremes.   I don't believe it's personally directed at us.   It's that they have no emotional brakes.   No governor to throttle down with.   They can't regulate.   Things will go from being wonderful, to horrible, to great, to terrible and all with in hours.  You know this.    And at some deep level your body recognizes this because it's paying the price with the fear, the tears, the feeling exposed and in danger.   Your body is telling you something.   

No contact is a great way to give your over taxed body a break from this stress.  It is a good way to build in some physical distance while you work on the detaching part of emotional distance.   Does that make sense?   Putting distance, physical and emotional, dialing down the level of reactivity, reducing the hyper vigilance that you have been living with are all good first steps just like    lovenature says.

I would suggest that some of the trouble you have had venturing out and rebuilding has been due to this long 11 month circular argument / abusive cycle you have been in.

This is where I have difficulty as I have internalized all of his toxic shame and/or he has triggered all of my deep seated insecurities.

Well, yes, of course you have.   We all have.   I sure did.    Yeah you are right there with us.    I've been reading your story for a little while now.   And I went back and read some of your early posts that I missed.   This is what I hear you telling me.   

You've been involved in this long circular argument / toxic abusive cycle.   For 11 months he has had a 'free pass' to run to his extremes and do and say whatever he wants.   For him this has cemented into place his beliefs, reinforced his opinions and convinced him of his own reality.   To be honest though Larmoyant I don't really care about him.   He isn't here trying to work on his stuff.   

I do care about you, because you are here. And you are working.  What I hear you telling me is this long period of toxicity has reinforced his opinions in you and convinced you of his reality.   

I would suggest it is time to push back against that.   How to do that?

We spend a lot of time here talking about no contact like it's the holy grail.  What I believe it to be a period of time where no more gas is being thrown on what is often a raging fire.   It's a simple truth that it's difficult to recover from previous damage while additional damage is being done.   If contact is abusive, and I often hear you describe yours as abusive/toxic, there is no reason to engage with it.

Don't have conversations with people are who are not there.    Attempt to limit or budget the amount of time you spend figuring out what he was thinking, what he meant, was any of it real.  That is keeping the wound open.   There will be time to unravel things gently and carefully after your own reactivity has come down.   When you find yourself thinking about him, gently and with out judgement redirect yourself mentally away.   Don't say WOW I am thinking about him again what the heck is wrong with me.    Tell yourself I find myself thinking about him again, that's good because my emotions will surface as they need too, I will redirect myself to something positive by; saying a prayer, singing a song, reading a paragraph from a book, playing with the piano.   whatever works for you.

and absolutely do what  Grey Kitty said.   Focus on yourself in small kind gentle ways.   Do something nice for you.   A trip to the library, a walk to the end of the block.   Fresh sheets on the bed.   An extra cup of tea.   Your reserves are depleted and it will take a while of gentle tender self care to build them back.   

my two cents, hope they help

'ducks

[Larmoyant]

His wants and needs will always come first.   He will always define the terms.    He will rarely consider your feeling and will only do so if it serves his needs or wants in some ways.

.

Reflecting back I can see this. Sometimes he did really nice things for me. I seem to have clung onto these as some sort of proof that he was considering my needs. Small kindnesses, or even just [empty] promises, that seemed to show he cared, but in the bigger picture were just enough to keep me there. I don't think I'm being cynical. The small things were real, but he wasn't really there for me.

.No contact is a great way to give your over taxed body a break from this stress.  It is a good way to build in some physical distance while you work on the detaching part of emotional distance.   Does that make sense?   Putting distance, physical and emotional, dialing down the level of reactivity, reducing the hyper vigilance that you have been living with are all good first steps just like    lovenature says.

.

It makes sense. I need to quieten down physically and emotionally and the only way that's going to happen is this period of no contact. I'm going to note down how I'm feeling now and compare it to how I feel on January 19, 2017.

.You've been involved in this long circular argument / toxic abusive cycle.   For 11 months he has had a 'free pass' to run to his extremes and do and say whatever he wants.

. 

I'm still wondering what this 11 month period was all about? I hadn't really wanted to leave him. I loved him, I was hurting and wanted something to change. I think I was holding on and hoping that would happen.  I still want to know what he was doing, what the past 11 months were to him? It was all so strange. It didn't go anywhere, just around and around, a total disconnect, just more pain.

.For him this has cemented into place his beliefs, reinforced his opinions and convinced him of his own reality.

. 

Is this the answer. Is this what he's been leading up to? From our latest discussions it now seems as if this is true. He now believes it was a mutual decision to end the relationship when it wasn't. He was beside himself when I finally left and wanted me back. He's changed the story now saying it was both of us and that fate intervened. In fact, some of his emails even suggest that it was his decision. He's rewritten history. I don't know why yet, but this is causing me pain. Maybe it's my ego, all I know is this is denying reality, it's frustrating and it hurts. How can someone just change the story and wipe out how much they hurt you.

. What I believe it to be a period of time where no more gas is being thrown on what is often a raging fire.  It's a simple truth that it's difficult to recover from previous damage while additional damage is being done.  If contact is abusive, and I often hear you describe yours as abusive/toxic, there is no reason to engage with it.

Don't have conversations with people are who are not there.   

Attempt to limit or budget the amount of time you spend figuring out what he was thinking, what he meant, was any of it real.  That is keeping the wound open.

.

All of this makes sense.

I spend a lot of time trying to figure him out. It does help, as I like to understand, but at the same time I need to focus on myself or I won't get up again. I'm going to really try these suggestions and, babyducks, lovenature, Grey Kitty, Drained, Herodias, Lucky Jim, thank you so very much helping me get through this.   

[lovenature]

How can someone just change the story and wipe out how much they hurt you.

Because they have a serious mental illness that allows them to cognitively distort reality so they don't have to feel anything negative about themselves; if they accepted their part in the failure of the relationship they would feel too much shame for them to bare.

[Herodias]

  listen, mine came home one day and said he wanted a divorce. Then after pleading not to, he brought the first woman into our bed. Leaving me no option as this was a boundary. Then we saw the lawyer together for a legal separation and he cried. Then I asked if he wanted to go to therapy and he said, no too much had happened. Then I found out he was seeing someone else and I told him if he got that one pregnant we would get divorced- so he tested that! Then he asked me to take him back after he got her pregnant! I said no- he tried to put off the divorce and I went through with it. Then he told everyone I cheated on him! None of it makes any sense and there is nothing that can be done to change their actions. It's just awful- really awful. All we can do is try and move on from the trauma and pain we have suffered. I know it feels awful... .it gets a little bit better over time. These situations are just not the norm and we need to stop worrying about them and take care of us. It's tough... .hang in there. You'll survive if you want to.

[Grey Kitty]

It makes sense. I need to quieten down physically and emotionally and the only way that's going to happen is this period of no contact. I'm going to note down how I'm feeling now and compare it to how I feel on January 19, 2017.

I look at NC as a tool to help your heart catch up to where your brain is.

You know, intellectually, that this is a mess that is going to hurt you more if you engage with him. But you don't feel that way about him. Or you feel that way, as well as a bunch of others that would give him more chances.

That's the biggest reason for NC--so you aren't tempted to do something that you know is a bad idea, but know that part of you still wants... .while you give your emotional side a chance to get the message and realize that you can't trust him.

  It isn't easy, but you will get there. Maybe it will take a month. Maybe more. Maybe less. You'll know when you are ready.

[Larmoyant]

Herodias, I've been following your story and I hope your court date goes well and you never have to see him again. The pain that must have caused you is truly horrible to imagine.   My ex used to torture me with other women, but I never caught him in bed with anyone. Thank you for sharing this painful memory as it's a reminder of all the anxiety, fear and mistrust. I don't want to live in that painful world anymore.

I don't want to count my chickens before they've hatched, but I'm having some sort of break through reading these responses. Grey Kitty, I am ready. In the midst of this hurt, I'm also sensing a very faint feeling of 'relief', at least I think it's 'relief' and dare I say it the beginnings of 'hope', not for the relationship, but for me. I don't want to be treated badly anymore, don't want to be raged at, tormented, put down, sneered at, insulted, lied about, lied to, I don't want to be at the mercy of his chaotic mood swings, pushed away, pulled back in.

Day 3 NC, taking it one moment at a time, but I am definitely ready.

[Larmoyant]

 
I would suggest that some of the trouble you have had venturing out and rebuilding has been due to this long 11 month circular argument / abusive cycle you have been in.

You've been involved in this long circular argument / toxic abusive cycle.   For 11 months he has had a 'free pass' to run to his extremes and do and say whatever he wants.   For him this has cemented into place his beliefs, reinforced his opinions and convinced him of his own reality.   To be honest though Larmoyant I don't really care about him.   He isn't here trying to work on his stuff.   

I do care about you, because you are here. And you are working.  What I hear you telling me is this long period of toxicity has reinforced his opinions in you and convinced you of his reality.   

babyducks, I missed this (bold) but it's so important. This is exactly what has happened. Exactly. Since the break up he has been true to form, putting me down, triggering all my core beliefs about myself. Feelings of unworthiness, of not being good enough and triggering my own fear of abandonment. I was left as a child. I've been fighting against this, determined to prove that what he says isn't true, that I am a worthy person and to please don't abandon me. Except it kept on going and him telling me what a terrible person I am, then saying I'm not so bad, only to be called bad all over again. No wonder I'm a mess. This is why the break up feels like the relationship. I allowed it to carry on for 11 more months. I haven't digested all this yet, but the penny has dropped. 

[drained1996]

I don't want to be treated badly anymore, don't want to be raged at, tormented, put down, sneered at, insulted, lied about, lied to, I don't want to be at the mercy of his chaotic mood swings, pushed away, pulled back in.

Remember your words.  They paint the picture you need to know. 

We are here to walk with you.  (I stole that line from somebody... .so mention must go to them whomever that was... .I like it... .so I'll use it... . ... .I didn't see a copyright)

[babyducks]

Larmoyant,

It's so nice to hear you are doing a little better and that you feel a bit of relief.   Nice job.   and good progress.   It comes in tiny baby steps.   And now you have evidence of that.

, triggering all my core beliefs about myself. Feelings of unworthiness, of not being good enough and triggering my own fear of abandonment. I was left as a child. I've been fighting against this, determined to prove that what he says isn't true, that I am a worthy person and to please don't abandon me.

This makes sense to me.  I can see exactly what you are saying.   This is two abandonments.   His, and the original from your childhood.   That seems to fit in all sorts of ways.    and that is (one) reason that this has break up has been so difficult.   

The way he processes life, his need to not feel shame/blame/guilt will always surpass your need to feel emotionally protected and safe.   That's the way his brain works.

When you guys get caught in this loop of: he need to get rid of his blame, and you need hurts recognized, it will always be a death spiral off a cliff until some one stops it.   

You've started to recognize it and that will stop it.    You are breaking the cycle.

You deserve love and respect.   You are worthy of it.   

I believe it's human nature to go back to the ones that hurt us looking for love and respect.    We are attempting healing.    I also think that what happens with us,  is that going back to the mentally ill creates that intermittent reinforcement.   Like a mouse in a science experiment sometimes we get the treat sometimes we get the electronic zap.   Never knowing we try harder, more frantically for the treat.   

and just think, it's only day 3 of NC.   

best wishes
ducks

[Lucky Jim]

I believe it's human nature to go back to the ones that hurt us looking for love and respect.    We are attempting healing.    I also think that what happens with us,  is that going back to the mentally ill creates that intermittent reinforcement.   Like a mouse in a science experiment sometimes we get the treat sometimes we get the electronic zap.   Never knowing we try harder, more frantically for the treat.   

Nicely said, ducks!  It helps me to look at it that way.

LJ

[lookatthemoon]

Wow- "The Disorder Wins" really sums it up.  I imagine reading that title really hit home for all who saw it.  I used to refer to my ex significant other as "Nice ****** "  or  "Mean ****** " and I always new Mean ****** was winning.  Do any of us ever win the battle? I lashed out at my ex and told him he was "textbook BPD".  It was not the best way to discuss things, but I feel if they have the information and still choose not to explore getting help, we will always lose.  The sadness that accompanies the thought that "if only they thought I was special enough to get help... ." is so overwhelming.  You were so kind to me when I made my first post.  Thank you. There is such loneliness knowing that pwBPD can seem perfectly normal and actually charming to people they work with or are friends with, but we are the targets and would not be believed by any of those who "know him". It helps to have this forum where we can have support and not be thought of as crazy or the bad guy!

[lovenature]

It was not the best way to discuss things, but I feel if they have the information and still choose not to explore getting help, we will always lose.  The sadness that accompanies the thought that "if only they thought I was special enough to get help

The problem is that the more special they feel you are, the closer you get, the more they fear engulfment and then abandonment, and so they push you away. The more you try to help them, the more they blame you; when you tell them they have a disorder, they just project it back onto you.
The disorder ALWAYS wins, only years of the right therapy can MANAGE it-not cure it.

[Lucky Jim]

The problem is that the more special they feel you are, the closer you get, the more they fear engulfment and then abandonment, and so they push you away. The more you try to help them, the more they blame you;

lovenature: Right, it's a lose/lose proposition at times.  LJ

[Larmoyant]

Nicely said, ducks!  It helps me to look at it that way.

LJ

This helps me too. I have little doubt that this is what I’ve been trying to do, heal from the past with a person who has a personality disorder. A disaster waiting to happen. After we split, and in a moment of seeming clarity, he told me that he was trying to be my knight but couldn’t seem to do it. I found it such a sad statement given that this is what I was trying to be for him too. Only I didn’t try to crush him in between attempts. Two hurt people unable to help each other. It’s sad.

I’d like to give a massive thank you to all who helped me in this thread and others on this board. I truly had a break through. It’s Day 6 NC and I’ve surprised myself. I’m coping relatively well and the promise of tomorrow has started to replace the ache in my heart. I read something that touched me “promise yourself never again to lay in arms that don’t know how to cherish the kindness in your heart”. I might just be ready for the detaching board again. A little hesitant because I’m still looking in the Spam file, with hope and dread competing with each other, but I’m working on it.

lookatthemoon, I remember you. Hope you're doing ok.

[Grey Kitty]

Larmoyant, I don't find much for myself on the detaching board either.

There is a lot of anger and fear there, and I think I got past that pretty quickly myself. (That my ex wasn't willing to come back at that time probably helped me a lot, but that was just dumb luck!)

I'm still sad over what ended, occasionally wistful for what was good, but knowing that there's no good path back I can take... .and I don't find much there which speaks to me.

I'm thinking of the kind of friend who will drink heavily with you... .and take your phone away from you as you try to drunk-text your ex (BPDex or sane ex!). I'm not needing that kind of support right now, but I know I can get it on the detaching board. If you do need it, I recommend going back there for a bit!

Trying to re-build myself in a way that isn't looking back at my ex at all is something that I don't think I'll find there.   I hope you find your way there too!