sex reassignment operation

[yokoyoko]

Hello.   This is my first post asking you for any insights or advice on the issue we are facing right now.

Our daughter, 20, has changed her gender about two months ago.  She is in college (high functioning) even though she has been having suicidal episodes 5,6 times in the past year.  She really needs help because when she was with us at home during school breaks, she became explosive for a minor thing we said, threw knives around screaming that she would kill herself if we tell her what to do, being manic outside in the public, etc.  We took to the doctors last May and got some ideas of her mental disorder types.  We thought about taking out of her from school or making her to take a leave of absent but she insisted she would make it so we let her go back to school.  Then we made sure she would continue therapy, but once she's gone back to school, she's been totally ignoring us.   She only contact us when she needs something. In our reply to her, if we include how she is doing mentally, she never answers that part.  

At about two months ago, she wrote to us saying she is a gender non conforming person.  She has turned boyish in the last couple of years but it seems like it was just a fashion.  Then about a month ago, she told us she is male and is forcing us to call her new name and a son.  If we use her real name, she would send an angry message saying we have not respect... . a typical of her.

But now she is telling us she's been on hormone shots and is schedule to have a sex change operation during spring break.
She said it would be covered by the university's health insurance.  We wonder what kind of lies she told the doctors to get to this far.
Since she went back to school in the fall, she told us she was only diagnosed as depression and anxiety and been on the meds.  
We have been telling her to give us more information but of course, she hasn't.  

We are scared.  This is so wrong.  We have tried all we could to stop her/ change her mind so far but nothing has worked.
We have decided to cut support her college tuition for next year if she doesn't get a reevaluation and go for the appropriate treatments/theray.  She got panicky first but now she is saying she can manage her tuition of $50000 without us.  A family friend just told us she has a cloud funding page up stating "my parents who are transphobic are trying to kick me out of school because I am transgender... . My depression and anxiety have been caused by my parents for their long term abuse... . "  So painful.  Also we saw some familiar names there for the donors.  We feel so alone.

We live abroad so it's been harder for us to deal with this.  (The child goes to college in the US.  
We have contacted all the places we could find including attorneys to get some advice if we can do anything for her to go further but no one wants to get involved.  Our wish is that she'd go for the treatment, hospitalization.  She can't carry conversation with us anymore.  She must be drugs, possibly.

Again, the problem is she is very high functioning.  If she decides to live as a different sex, we must accept but the surgery?  Not right.
She needs to take care of her mental issues first and go from there.  Also it is so sad that there are doctors who would allow her to do what she wants.  Well, I guess she shopped the doctors around and picked them because they listened to her and let her do what she wanted.
However, we have seen no traits of her gender mix up while growing up.  She has ADHD (high function), bipolar traits (not officially diagnosed but in our home country the doctor is pretty much certain she has it) and BPD traits. (for this one also, she has not been diagnosed in the US)

Because of her age, there is nothing we can do, we have been told.  Is there anything we can sill do to prevent this from happening at this time?  It looks like there is none.

Is it right to split right here and let her live her own life?  I have been crying everyday.  It is just so hard.

Thank you for listening.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[heartandwhole]

Hi yokoyoko,

I'm very sorry to hear that your relationship with your daughter has suffered. That is so hard.   In your shoes, I'm sure I'd be upset and worried about my daughter.

You've found a great place for support, and you are not alone. Members here have been in similar situations with grown children and understand what you are going through. The site also has tons of tools and resources to make things better. I know it doesn't feel like it now, but things can get better for you.

When was the last time you saw your daughter? Does she stay in the States over her school breaks as well?

Keep writing, it helps to share your experiences. We're here to support you.  

heartandwhole

[yokoyoko]

heartandwhole、

Thank you for your message here. 

Please let me answer your questions.

>When was the last time you saw your daughter?

I saw here at the of August last year in the US.  I went there just to check on her but she turned herself in for the suicidal urge.


>:)oes she stay in the States over her school breaks as well?

She stays in the US and will stay there for the rest of her life.  She says she hates her home country.
She was home for a short period of time last summer. 

Thank you for again for your comment.  I have been feeling very alone. 

[heartandwhole]

I have been feeling very alone. 

That is so difficult.    It's tough to know how to handle things, especially when our children are grown and living their own lives. And you have the added issue that she lives far away from you.

Are you still communicating regularly with your daughter? How do the conversations usually go?

heartandwhole

[yokoyoko]

Are you still communicating regularly with your daughter? How do the conversations usually go?

Thank you again, Heartandwhole for reading my post and your comment.

Our child has blocked on us on various communication tools.  I have no access to her.
My husband (her father) has one email he can reach to her, however, it has been one way communication. 
She never answers back. 

We are getting all these information from parents of her old classmates who are wondering what's happening with us.
Her sudden gender change is one of them.  We had no clue.  When my husband wrote to her to ask how she's been
using her "old" name, she wrote back saying that we are disrespectful to use that name and we must use the correct pronouns
from now on and call her their "son."

For more than anything, we are angry and sad that there are physicians who have allowed her to have a hormone therapy and let her schedule the surgery. 

I keep telling myself she is an adult so what she does is her responsibility and there is absolutely nothing we can do to
change anything.  But I can't help grieving about this whole thing. 
For her, money = love.  She will never come back to us. 

[Sunfl0wer]

My husband (her father) has one email he can reach to her, however, it has been one way communication.  
She never answers back.  

Ok, so this may seem like silly or simple advice and such when you are dealing with heavy stuff here but I cannot help but wonder (in case the practicality may have escaped you in this understandable state of confusion/anxieties, etc... .)

When your husband emails her, does he use her birth name?

Has he tried saying directly... .
Hey, I know you want to be known as "Bob" and I hope you can understand that is a bit hard for me to do at this point, I am trying to connect and come to terms with things.  However, I can refrain from calling you "Sue" as you wish and hope to find a way to be your dad/be there for you no matter what.

Idk, maybe you have tried this.

Sounds though like she may be avoiding judgement from you both.
In which case, if she expects to hear how sad, upset, etc your guys are over her decisions, I can't see how she is going to not be challenged in wanting to reach towards you guys as a place of comfort.

[She may be avoiding you guys until you accept that she is adult and that it is not your jobs any longer to persuade her in decisions.  Sometimes rebellious choices will turn around when there is no longer need for rebellion, no longer need to "prove" one can and will in fact make and be responsible for their own decisions.  Or... .Sometimes folks may decide to make life decisions and maybe it is not rebellion... .but simply their decision.]

At least she didn't block the emails.  Sounds like she has hope that you guys care.

Hope something makes sense.

[yokoyoko]

Sunfl0wer,

Thank you for your comment and thinking about our situation.

When your husband emails her, does he use her birth name?
Has he tried saying directly... .
Hey, I know you want to be known as "Bob" and I hope you can understand that is a bit hard for me to do at this point, I am trying to connect and come to terms with things.  However, I can refrain from calling you "Sue" as you wish and hope to find a way to be your dad/be there for you no matter what.   Idk, maybe you have tried this.

Yes, we have tried just like you wrote.  We don't know what she thought because she has not replied back.

Sounds though like she may be avoiding judgement from you both.
In which case, if she expects to hear how sad, upset, etc your guys are over her decisions, I can't see how she is going to not be challenged in wanting to reach towards you guys as a place of comfort.

It is hard to tell but her breakup with her bf had a big impact on her gender change.  During her 2 and half years of colleges, she has belonged to different groups/organizations/friends but nothing lasted more than 3 months with so much complaint about each.  In the beginning, things were beautiful and she was the happiest in each group.  Now she is with this gender queer group that protects her and there is her place.  We think she wants attention to hold onto that group therefore she has to keep changing... .  Right now because of this group, she needs no comfort from us. 

But again, changing physically at this point... .  we are concerned. 

[She may be avoiding you guys until you accept that she is adult and that it is not your jobs any longer to persuade her in decisions.  Sometimes rebellious choices will turn around when there is no longer need for rebellion, no longer need to "prove" one can and will in fact make and be responsible for their own decisions.  Or... .Sometimes folks may decide to make life decisions and maybe it is not rebellion... .but simply their decision.]

We may sound very protective of her maybe... .  but we have given her freedom in making decisions at any time, including her going to school in the US.  We feel it is our job for her to fully understand this surgery will not lead her to feel better for herself since she is not in the thinking state of mind because of medication, alcohol binge, and possibly some drug usage.  But I know we will stop fighting for her even though it is tough, very tough for me to do. 

At least she didn't block the emails.  Sounds like she has hope that you guys care.

Hope something makes sense.

Because we did not know, how to "communicate" with her in her way, her 20 year of life with us has been wasted. 
We knew there was something and had taken to the doctors to find out what it is and to see if there was anything we could do,
no doctor in our country, in our culture could not detect it.  We have hurt her so much, we know.  Now we've come this far which is too late.

Wish we knew this site five years ago... .

Thank you for listening and reading my post.  (English is not my native language so please forgive me if there are some missed point or
if I have not gotten the correct message through words... .)

[livednlearned]

Hi yokoyoko,

My SO's D19 went through something very similar, although she only hinted at reassignment surgery and did some research into it. Right now she seems to be female.

A few years ago she asked to be called by a male name, joined a transgender group, starting wearing male clothing, cut her hair short, wears male deodorant, uses shampoo for males, etc.

And yet, when I was looking at these feminine attributes (from Nicola site), D19 exhibits all of the excessive female behavioral traits:

Excessive Female Behavioral Traits:

Connection———————-Fear of conflict
Bonding————————–Over-sensitivities to threats to relationships
Nurturing————————Lack of independence
Caretaking———————-Invasive
Sensitive————————-Thin-skinned
Loving—————————-Smothering
Maternal————————-Over-protective
Mediator————————-Doormat
Peacemaker——————–Submissive
Fussy—————————–Controlling
Delicate————————–Weak

Versus these traits for males:

Excessive Male Behavioral Traits

Independence——————Lack of Intimacy
Rule Breaker——————–Criminality
Leadership———————–Control
Dominance———————–Oppression
Hierarchy————————-Narcissistic Behavior
Low Emotionality————–Lack of Empathy
Efficient—————————Inflexible
Stoical—————————–Distant
Protective————————Jealous
Breadwinner——————–Status Seeker
Competitive———————Uncaring
Relaxed————————–Sloppy
Tough—————————-Mean-spirited

Not that these lists mean too much, only that they confirm for us why we are left scratching our heads about her gender and identity confusion. She seems to have excessive feminine traits (minus the superficial stuff about girls and shopping, girls and makeup, seductive behavior, etc.

SO is very accepting of D19's sexuality and has no problem if she is gay or transgender, though he worries about how hormones could impact her health and is very concerned about reassignment surgery at such a young age. D19 ended up talking to psychiatrist who specializes in transgender issues -- we don't know the substance of their conversations, except that shortly after she told her family to call her by her male name.

She is 5 feet, 2 inches and looks like she is in middle school, and SO worried about how she would be treated in her profession (teaching) which tends to trend much more socially conservative where we live.

When D19 asked to be called a male name, SO said he would try to remember, and that this is all new to him and he might need some time to adjust.

Last summer, D19 came out to me as gay and characterized her dad as bigoted  and said he rejected her for being gay, even though I know where SO stands on the issue -- he is neither, but D19 is so sensitive she took his loving (and honest) response as rejection. And yet clings to him and tries to hold his hand, and hugs him excessively when she visits... .honestly, she is more like a 3-year-old girl than anything else.

She goes to transgender meetings and is trying to find a church where she will be accepted for being transgender, though recently she bought women's shoes and keeps buying her dad t-shirts like "my daughter is freaking awesome and she bought me this shirt."

So we learn she is now female based on t-shirts she gives SO 

I don't have any advice for what to do, only to say that I understand your worries and know how hard this is. D19 recently had a suicidal episode and it is truly heartbreaking to see her struggle with every aspect of her life including who she is. She seems so young and immature and hardy capable of making adult decisions and yet she is one. It sounds like your D20 is very much in the same boat. 

[yokoyoko]

Hi, Livednlerned. 

Thank you for sharing your story.  This is my first time to hear a story who has been in the similar situation.

Also thank you for introducing us the lists and the site.  These are helpful information for us who know
no access about the condition.  We will take time checking the pages and  later.

SO is very accepting of D19's sexuality and has no problem if she is gay or transgender, though he worries about how hormones could impact her health and is very concerned about reassignment surgery at such a young age. D19 ended up talking to psychiatrist who specializes in transgender issues -- we don't know the substance of their conversations, except that shortly after she told her family to call her by her male name.

My husband and I have no problem if our child is gay or transgender if we had more assurance at this point.
Though, we are not sure about shots and surgery that might give her body some future health damage.

When D19 asked to be called a male name, SO said he would try to remember, and that this is all new to him and he might need some time to adjust.

Last summer, D19 came out to me as gay and characterized her dad as bigoted  and said he rejected her for being gay, even though I know where SO stands on the issue -- he is neither, but D19 is so sensitive she took his loving (and honest) response as rejection. And yet clings to him and tries to hold his hand, and hugs him excessively when she visits... .honestly, she is more like a 3-year-old girl than anything else.

Her new name too.  We need a bit more information to really digest the situation.

Our D has been telling everyone we are transphobia and threw her out of the family... .
We have tried to show our love but no correct message went through.

We love her dearly with all our hearts but I am sorry to say I hate what she does... .

[livednlearned]

I sense that D19 does the same thing in our situation -- tells people her family rejects her for being transgender, or gay, or bisexual.

It's part of the way a BPD brain sorts and processes information, because sensing even the smallest hint of emotional distance (like needing time to process your daughter is a son... .) is experienced as rejection. And trying to set the record straight only makes it worse because she feels invalidated

With D19, she seems able to be a victim of her dad while still clinging to him, and he has not been split black in a drastic way, although it does not take much for subtle splitting to occur.

Do you plan to continue writing your D even though she does not respond?

[yokoyoko]

Hi, Livednlearn.

Thank you again for getting back.

It's part of the way a BPD brain sorts and processes information, because sensing even the smallest hint of emotional distance (like needing time to process your daughter is a son... .) is experienced as rejection. And trying to set the record straight only makes it worse because she feels invalidated

With D19, she seems able to be a victim of her dad while still clinging to him, and he has not been split black in a drastic way, although it does not take much for subtle splitting to occur.

That is great that you can sense and "analyze" what D19 says with her words and understand the meaning behind those words from her perspective. Did this take practice or has it been still hard?

Our D is very verbal and direct.   It hurts even if we know she has a different brain function from us. 
It sounds so like a personal attack and I can only take it her being just mean and hateful of what we do for her.
I know I need to "mature" in dealing with her, not being emotional.

Do you plan to continue writing your D even though she does not respond?

I have not written her since she blocked me on the messenger.
Her dad has been writing even though she doesn't respond.  When she responds and gives him very unreasonable statements, he
stops for a while. 

We have been asking her to get an reevaluation for her condition.  We have no information about the doctors in her area.  Then she wrote back with lines like this:

"I think that it is very closed-minded of you to want me to see a doctor "of your choosing." I am reminded of Trump hiring only like-minded people to his cabinet such as global warming skepticists as the Secretary of Energy, or the CEO of Exxon as the Secretary of State. If you truly believed in western medicine, any certified medical professional should do. "

Our D has been wanting to be independent ever since she was 15.  So now she turned 20 and thinks she doesn't need to listen to anything from her parents.  She has been determined about not ever coming home ever and having nothing to do with us.  She states so in every single email she sent to her dad.  Now we are cutting her school fund and all the others totally and she is okay with it.

So is this it?  Are we doing the right thing leading her to the independent living just like she says she wants?
Of course, we will be always be here but we won't throw her kind words by asking if she needs something, let us know... .
I'd be still worried about her, though, I have to let her go.

Because she is high functioning with her intelligence, things are actually going in her favor.  She already got an offer for a good internship for the summer (as well as last summer and the summer before that... .always). 

We still would like her to re think about her surgery, however, yesterday my friend in the US told me it is not that rare for people in their early 20s to have such surgeries.  I think it will still be hard but it's her life so just let it happen... . 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[heartandwhole]

We still would like her to re think about her surgery, however, yesterday my friend in the US told me it is not that rare for people in their early 20s to have such surgeries.  I think it will still be hard but it's her life so just let it happen... . 

I really understand your feelings here. Surgery is a big and important step, and is not reversible. It's so understandable to worry about your daughter's wellbeing under those circumstances.

In times like these, I find it helpful to work on accepting what is happening. It doesn't mean I like it, or don't want to try to change the situation, but accepting what is (reality) in the moment puts me in a more centered place where I can then make decisions that help me get through whatever the situation it is.

Here is a link that addresses what I mentioned above:

Radical Acceptance for Family Members

Do you and your husband have extended family where you live, and can you talk to them and get support?

heartandwhole

[livednlearned]

That is great that you can sense and "analyze" what D19 says with her words and understand the meaning behind those words from her perspective. Did this take practice or has it been still hard?

It has taken a lot of practice, and reading, and patience. I have a uBPD brother, and was married to someone with a PD. My son showed signs of emerging traits and is very emotionally vulnerable, and I've been learning the skills to support him. All of that was training for D19.

I think there is also a grieving period that goes along with all of this. You have to give yourself time and permission to grieve.

She is very battle-ready when it comes to rejection. Her defenses are less honed for acceptance. When we accept them, they may not step toward us but perhaps it prevents them from stepping even further away. 

[RunningWithScissors]

Yokoyoko -

Just wanted to provide a brief response now, but hope to return with more info.

My stepson is transgendered, and has a diagnosis of BPD.  I want you to know that there is hope - his story is actually a success story and can be found in the 'Breakthroughs' link at the top of this board.  He 'came out' as gay at the age of 14, left home at 16 to live in another province (we're Canadian)  with his lesbian girlfriend.  A year later, that relationship ended when he realized that he was transgendered, and changed his name.  During this time, our relationship was difficult as his moods were volatile, angry, threatening and self-destructive (drugs, alcohol, promiscuity, self-mutilation, homelessness). 

Now, he's 21 and still lives in the province away from us with his wife.  He's a dedicated worker, manages his finances despite the challenges of living in a very high cost of living area with a low paying job, and has a great relationship with us.  There is hope that your situation will improve.

The only piece of advice that I will give you now is to VALIDATE!  There's links on this site that explain the hows and whys, but it is essential.  My stepson knew he always had our support - we use his preferred name and gender pronouns.  When he wanted to leave home at a young age, we expressed our concerns but helped drive him and a trailer with his personal effects to his new home.  The best thing we did was to let him make decisions for himself, and allow him to experience the effects of those (often poor) decisions.  Yes, we received late night calls from him telling us he'd been kicked out of his apartment (for not paying rent) and was beaten up, or he was hungry because he'd quit yet another job.  We had to learn not to solve his problems for him or rescue him - anytime we did, he'd refuse to follow our well meaning advice.  It was hard to step back and simply ask: 'So, what are you going to do now?'.

I hope this helps - take care.

[yokoyoko]

Hi, heartandwhole.

In times like these, I find it helpful to work on accepting what is happening. It doesn't mean I like it, or don't want to try to change the situation, but accepting what is (reality) in the moment puts me in a more centered place where I can then make decisions that help me get through whatever the situation it is.

Thank you for introducing us the link.  We will take time this weekend to look carefully until we get the real purpose of it.
Taking things happening each day in our daily lives have been a lot of work since our daughter left for college so far away from home.
In the past year of these dramas, we just had no time to think of our own, our own well being especially.  But studying more about BPD has been giving us we need to take care of ourselves as well.  This is another reminder and something new for us to go for.

Do you and your husband have extended family where you live, and can you talk to them and get support?

My husband's parents and relatives are all scattered.  I just have my mom.  So far only person who has been supportive is my mom.
Because we live abroad, extended family members really don't know our daughter.   We have tried to tell them our situation but they have shown difficulties.  They think it is just an extension of teenage rebellion. 

[yokoyoko]

Thank you again, livednlearned.

We feel we do need some professional help so we will look if there is anything available here.
Again, I really wish we knew about this site and community before our issue came up.

I am glad I made a post here.  It took me a while because of my language and not knowing about the nature of BPD.
Thank you for telling us your experience and useful tips as well as information.
It's been very comforting to know there people.

[yokoyoko]

Hi, RunningWithScissors.

Thank you for reading our story and sharing your story.

Your stepsone chose to be independent so early and went through a lot.  Now he is settle so you must be proud of him.
Did he go through any sort of therapy at some point? 

Validate... .OK.  Thank you.  I am an emotional person so I may not good at doing so but I must learn.
For us we don't get to communicate with our daughter so it's been very difficult.
She and I used to be really really close before, at least I had no doubt that we did and whenever things got tough around her, she shared her stories and thoughts with me.   I could not understand her most of the time but I still tried and she was able to cope with me.  But now it seems like she'd given up on me.

Thank you for letting us know the link.

Yokoyoko -

My stepson knew he always had our support - we use his preferred name and gender pronouns.  When he wanted to leave home at a young age, we expressed our concerns but helped drive him and a trailer with his personal effects to his new home.  The best thing we did was to let him make decisions for himself, and allow him to experience the effects of those (often poor) decisions.  Yes, we received late night calls from him telling us he'd been kicked out of his apartment (for not paying rent) and was beaten up, or he was hungry because he'd quit yet another job.  We had to learn not to solve his problems for him or rescue him - anytime we did, he'd refuse to follow our well meaning advice.  It was hard to step back and simply ask: 'So, what are you going to do now?'.

I am going to read this part probably 100x and think about it.   Using her preferred name and the pronouns... .  that is going to be very hard but we must show our acceptance.  We thought we had given her a sage place but she no longer thinks so.  Because she is in a different stage in her life?  A lot to think about and learn... . 

Your advice here is very meaningful.  Thank you so much.