Final Hearing scheduled for Friday- feelin nervous,cynical,cautiously optomistic

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

On Friday we have our final hearing set. 

My wife has called in an expert witness to testify that she does not have a mental illness.  There was 1 psychiatrist that diagnosed her 7 years ago, and the custody elevalutor diagnosed her report.  My wife is bringing someone in who looks like they have testified a lot for courts.   this person was never given in discovery so we are trying to get her striken but it might not happen since the judge has ordered that this new psychiatrist and my lawyer talk before Friday.  If that happens, then she will be allowed in the court. 

My wife also has said she is going to pull apart the custody evaluation by saying that it was biased.  My wife did a lot of crazy alienation behavior over the last year.  She said that the CE did not give her a chance to respond to either my reports of her behavior or when my wife made an allegation and I defended myself with facts and pictures the CE did not give my wife a chance to counter my defense.  At a parenting coordinator meeting yesterday, she also said that the CE was biased because she is latina and is not from this country.

Even though we are slated for 6 hours, my lawyer thinks that with the number of people they subpoenaed that it will go into a different day which will delay it out further.  I asked wife yesterday, why cant you just give me times with the kids and we can end this.  She said if you take every other weekend and I will.  I said, why should not the kids have equal time with me.  She did not answer. 

I am nervous, cynical that this will still go on for another few months with it rolling into a new day.  Also nervous about all the fees as I am about tapped out so far.  Also sad that my relationship is coming to an end officially as I never wanted this to happen (even though I filed).  I think I am still in denial. 

 

[Sluggo]

On Friday we have our final hearing set. 

My wife has called in an expert witness to testify that she does not have a mental illness.  There was 1 psychiatrist that diagnosed her 7 years ago, and the custody elevalutor diagnosed her report.  My wife is bringing someone in who looks like they have testified a lot for courts.   this person was never given in discovery so we are trying to get her striken but it might not happen since the judge has ordered that this new psychiatrist and my lawyer talk before Friday.  If that happens, then she will be allowed in the court. 

My wife also has said she is going to pull apart the custody evaluation by saying that it was biased.  My wife did a lot of crazy alienation behavior over the last year.  She said that the CE did not give her a chance to respond to either my reports of her behavior or when my wife made an allegation and I defended myself with facts and pictures the CE did not give my wife a chance to counter my defense.  At a parenting coordinator meeting yesterday, she also said that the CE was biased because she is latina and is not from this country.

Even though we are slated for 6 hours, my lawyer thinks that with the number of people they subpoenaed that it will go into a different day which will delay it out further.  I asked wife yesterday, why cant you just give me times with the kids and we can end this.  She said if you take every other weekend and I will.  I said, why should not the kids have equal time with me.  She did not answer. 

I am nervous, cynical that this will still go on for another few months with it rolling into a new day.  Also nervous about all the fees as I am about tapped out so far.  Also sad that my relationship is coming to an end officially as I never wanted this to happen (even though I filed).  I think I am still in denial. 

 

[ForeverDad]

Her claim about discrimination and wanted you to agree to alternate weekends reminded me of my posts when I was divorcing.

Both the mediator and later the custody evaluator noted my then-stbx's claims that our son was "her" son.  The mediator picked up on it quickly when I pointed it out.  She claimed that in her family-oriented culture & language that's how they said it.  Mr. Mediator stated, You're here, not there.  (She was born here but is bilingual.  In reality, in her family the boys lived with their dad and the girls lived with their mother and abuser stepfather, so according to her actual history/culture our son should have been living with me and hence "my" son.  The CE actually put quotes around "her" when he put his observations in his report.)  She wouldn't rephrase it and eventually when we got to the custody topic we hit the typical impasse and mediation failed as expected.  After she left the mediator remarked in my hearing but officially to no one in particular, That woman has problems.

In my own case, I recall when the custody evaluation came out solidly in my favor, though also indicating we should start with Shared Parenting trying to make that work.  The court ordered a Settlement Conference next.  It only lasted about 5 minutes or so.  She reached over the table and with her hand like a claw said she'd claw my eyes out if I tried to get custody.  That was that, the attempt failed, not a surprise.  But before we started I had been sitting alone with my lawyer when her lawyer walked in and sat down.  He explained he was divorced and had alternate weekends.  He asked me to consider that.  In a very rare instance of my mind picking out the absolute best response, I told him, "That sounds fine but I don't think your client would like alternate weekends."   He didn't say another word, he of course already knew the CE's report favored me.  But did you notice the assumption he tried to saddle on me?  So many today have the perception that fathers should only expect to get alternate weekends as sometimes dads.

[Sluggo]

Thanks FD. 

[david]

It might be good if she brings in a bunch of witnesses that all testify that she does not have a mental illness. My experience led me to believe that courts don't care if someone has a mental illness or not. What they are looking for is what is best for the kids. If she comes to court to prove she is not mentally ill and you come to court with a plan that is in the children's best interest I think you have a good chance of getting most of what you are asking the court for. Ask for more and settle for what you want. This way both parties "win".

[Sluggo]

Thank you David!

[livednlearned]

It might be good if she brings in a bunch of witnesses that all testify that she does not have a mental illness. My experience led me to believe that courts don't care if someone has a mental illness or not. What they are looking for is what is best for the kids. If she comes to court to prove she is not mentally ill and you come to court with a plan that is in the children's best interest I think you have a good chance of getting most of what you are asking the court for. Ask for more and settle for what you want. This way both parties "win".

That was true in my case, too. If your L shows that your focus is on the kids and offers a reasonable solution to solve whatever conflict is there, it gives the judge a gift.

I hated every minute in family law court and lost a lot of faith in the judicial system. Even so, sitting in court and watching a bunch of other cases, I could see that most people come to court complaining about how bad the other person is. When someone came in with a reasonable solution to minimize the conflict it really did stand out.

My L was really good at turning lemons into lemonade. In your case she might say something like, "My client is comforted to hear that mom's symptoms could be in remission, and that she complied with her psychiatric evaluation and the custody evaluation. We all want mom to be healthy and well for the kids. It's better for kids to have equal time with their parents. That is why we propose that Sluggo gets x percent time and these other things to make sure things remain stable for the kids."

One time the judge said to N/BPDx, "You do realize that the solution to the problem you are addressing is to have S15 (10 at the time) evaluated and treated by a psychiatrist. Whether S15 has these issues, and whether LnL caused these problems, the solution is the same thing that LnL is trying to do, which is get S15 treatment."

My takeaway from that moment is that we get dragged into the weeds with BPD arguments for whatever reason -- maybe we come from families with BPD traits and it seems familiar or whatever. Whereas, most people see the weeds for what they are. They can stay with the big picture because that's normal.

[Nope]

My takeaway from that moment is that we get dragged into the weeds with BPD arguments for whatever reason -- maybe we come from families with BPD traits and it seems familiar or whatever. Whereas, most people see the weeds for what they are. They can stay with the big picture because that's normal.

I do think we often run into the mistake of letting the BPD set the tone of the argument. If my DH sends his uBPDx an email on one topic, suddenly there is a response with ten other unrelated topics pulling my DH in a bunch of completely different directions that won't help anyone conclude the initial topic.

Sluggo - Everything is a smoke screen to waste time so that there will be no time to address the real issue that you want resolved. In my DH's custody case, the uBPDx's lawyer smoke screened herself. Each side was given six hours to present their case and her lawyer kept me on the stand for 3.5. mind you, DH and I weren't married at the time. They wasted so much time picking me apart that they never got around to calling their one witness. Don't let your L get sucked into long cross examinations unless the witness is saying something that is significant and untrue about you that needs to be addressed.

[Sluggo]

Thank you Lnl and Nope!

[livednlearned]

Another thought:

Maybe include something in your proposed solution about continuing to monitor mom's promising improvements.

Meaning, you acknowledge that she had a diagnosis, that she seems to be showing some improvement, and that your solution is to continue to monitor these emerging positive signs with another evaluation in a year. At which time xyz can happen (e.g. her request for whatever). 

So, you drive the narrative. Instead of debating whether she is ill, you frame it as "she seems to be getting better." Instead of making it about her mental illness, you make it about things getting better for the kids. Instead of making it about giving her more time, you make it about continuing to monitor her progress.

You give the court a specific timeframe and a concrete action and then the judge doesn't have to waffle away up there wondering what the heck to do. Plus, they seem to love kicking the can down the road. Might as well be mom's can.

It might be different in your case, but in mine, I found that my ex was temperamentally incapable of kicking his own can. If we proposed a solution in which he was expected to comply, he never did. So all of our proposed solutions were designed to put responsibility on his shoulders.

And he never came through. Not once.

[Sluggo]

So, you drive the narrative. Instead of debating whether she is ill

that makes sense.  I see the shift in focus you are referring to.  Thank you!

Mike

[Sluggo]

We had the hearing Friday.  I spent the entire day before with the lawyer going to all the information she had over the last year.  The stack of paper she had on this was over 5 feet tall of stuff, emails, doctor reports, etc, etc, etc.  I was glad to spend that day with her as it gave me a good comfort level. 

My lawyers goal was to get her part done in the morning which would have left the wife to have the afternoon.  We brought in the Parenting coordinator and the custody evaluator testitfied.  The PC said that there were unilateral medical decisions being made which were against the prelim order.  The CE testified about the parental alienation.  She did a fantastic job.  She was on the stand for an hour with my lawyer and then another 30 min with the other lawyer.  She was detailed, graphic about the consequences of PA on the kids.  Judge then asked her wouldn't it be better to just take the kids away from both the parents.  CE explained that used to be the thought that PA was a result of both the parents cooperating in it... .  however more current thought has found that just 1 parent can be doing the PA to the kids.  She called it emotional abuse.  CE even said the best course for the kids would be to have 3 to 6 months to have 'no contact' with the parent who is alienating and spend time with the 'targeted' parent to reestablish the relationship.  It was like she was reading from the Dr. Childress book. 

Then I went.  I did not get crossed as we ran out of time in the morning.  Then after lunch wife's counseled brought in a forensic psychiatrist (FP) as her expert witness.  She tried to discredit the CE in different parts of the report.  However she said overall she thought it was a good report.  The expert witness tried to portray me as having a mental illness also as I did not have the ability to stand up to anybody... .ie I would not be able to discipline the kids.  Also that I had not prior experience in parenting 7 kids.  However, forensic psychiatrist had never met me, talked with our kids, and only met my wife one time for a 2 hour period.  My lawyer pointed that out and also pointed out that this witness has not been trained in custody evaluations, never has done a custody evaluation before.  My lawyer asked her... .if my client always avoided conflict, do you think he would be in the court right now fighting to see his kids.   

One thing that the FP said that my wife needed the structure of the kids in her life to keep her from getting 'flaring' up.  She was talking how that was important for her to stay stable.  My lawyer brought up... .  this is about the kids and there protection not about how to keep the mother emotionally regulated.  It felt like the FP was recommending what I had tried to do my marriage... .change the behaviors of people who interact with my wife to keep my wife from becoming dysregulated.  Like the focus is on her.  The FP did tell the judge that my wife just can't seem to help her self.  Sometimes she cannot control what she does.  He asked if that is something that can be changed with therapy, she said I am not sure if she would be able to. 

We got to the end of the day and I still had not been crossed by her council nor had my wife been put on the stand.  It is continued for another 30-60 days depending on court availability.  My wife had 11 other women come from our church who had heard the last 12 months of only my wife's side.  Many of them I know but did not make eye contact with me when they came in.  I felt good that one of the ladies came up to my lawyer in the bathroom after hearing the CE and PC speack and told my lawyer, 'I didn't realize all this was going on.  I had no idea.  This is really about the kids isnt it.'   That validation was good to hear. 

[david]

Sounds like a good solid day in court. Stay focused on the kids. I think your attys point about this being about the kids is something that the judge can't dismiss.
Perhaps you can have that addressed later. Mom needs therapy for her inability to be structured on her own. That will take time and maybe needs some benchmarks in order for her to have unsupervised parenting time.
My ex brought some women, for moral support, to court in the beginning. They only heard her side of the story. That day, my ss's and her dna kids from her first marriage, testified in my behalf. They never came to another hearing. I saw their faces during the hearing and they genuinely looked perplexed. I am sure what they were told was nothing like what they heard that day in court.

[ForeverDad]

Your lawyer seems to have confirmed herself as a capable lawyer, more than just a typical forms filer and hand holder.  Good that you have a proactive attorney with strategies focused on the core issue, what's good for the children.

[Sluggo]

I just got this today from the court.  We just had most of our final hearing heard on Friday.  Any ideas or experience on this request? 

The Court would like for each parent to present evidence on what steps can be taken to improve communication between the parents.  The Court would also like to hear evidence on how the parents intend to remove the children from being in the middle of conflicts and hopefully lessen the anxiety being felt by the children as a result of being placed in the middle of those conflicts.

[Panda39]

I just got this today from the court.  We just had most of our final hearing heard on Friday.  Any ideas or experience on this request? 

The Court would like for each parent to present evidence on what steps can be taken to improve communication between the parents.  The Court would also like to hear evidence on how the parents intend to remove the children from being in the middle of conflicts and hopefully lessen the anxiety being felt by the children as a result of being placed in the middle of those conflicts.

I have not had experience with this but it did make me think about using only email to communicate.  You may already be doing this but it might be a good suggestion for part of your plan. It does help slow the communication down so you aren't giving knee jerk reactions, email allows you to think through what you say (or if you need to say anything at all), because it's written it can help take out some of the emotion from the interaction and you have documentation of the interactions if you need it. 

It also takes the kids out of any communication and conflict you have with your ex.  They won't hear any arguments and they won't (unless she show's them to the kids... .bad move) see the emails. My SO communicated only via email with his uBPDx and one day his younger daughter said something to him about him yelling at her mom (I'm sure mom was in feelings = facts mode) all dad had to say was D10 how can I be "yelling" at your mother I don't talk with her on the phone we only email. Oh, ya that's right! 

Panda39

[Nope]

This is your opportunity to show the court that the kids could successfully have access to both of their parents if you are put in the driver's seat. That's the best way to look at this. The court is asking you pretty directly for long term solutions. Now is the time to point out that while you can't control what mom does, and mom apparently can't control what she does (according to her own expert witness), you can control what you do and how you approach situations that are likely to continue to come up.

[GaGrl]

The Court is looking for solid, viable, practical solutions.  You will want to look at how you communicate (and why... ."email, so that there are no misunderstandings or conflict between parents), how you exchange the children (and why... ."drop-off at school/pre-school in morning by one parent, pickup at school by other parent, so that there is no conflict between parents).  What else can you think of that will minimize conflict?  Think of medical, education, religious decision-making -- do you feel you need 50-50 decision-making with ability for tie-breaking if you and ex don't agree?

It sounds as if the court if asking for your solutions on what will become your settlement and parenting agreement... .holidays, vacations, exchanges, school decisions, you name it.  You can lay all this out in a way to communicate to the court that you can ensure that both parents are able to have time and parenting, while laying it out in a way that shows you will be the primary parent.

Always keep the childrens' needs at the forefront -- "so that children do not see their parents in conflict" or that "children are clear and secure on exchange arrangements."

[Sluggo]

GREAT POINTS Panda, Nope, Gagrl! 

Thank you!

Mike

[ForeverDad]

Present yourself to the court as the parent seeking solutions to the conflict.  Be the problem solver.  Gagrl had some excellent suggestions.  That was my problem, in person exchanges were excuses for her to trigger herself.  I used school and daycare as intermediaries in the early years, I used the sheriff's office too.  However, I did lose the pediatrician, her school (last 5 weeks of son's kindergarten) and one daycare, very nearly two daycares.  When they have the option, the various professionals want out of the conflict triangle and we got multiple "withdrawal of services" letters.

Learn from our experiences and collective wisdom.  In a misguided effort to avoid encounters I asked my lawyer to seek a change from 2/2/3 (AKA 2/2/5/5) to 7/7, going from two exchanges per week to one exchange per week.  He immediately cut that idea off, ":)o you want the court to think your son can be away from you for even longer periods?"  Remember, one of our best qualities (AND worst qualities in disordered relationships) is our sense of fairness.  Courts don't care much for fairness or justice, theirs is a judicial system developed over decades of laws, case law, procedures and policies.  If you get advantages due to that, don't sabotage yourself by trying to be fair and gifting some of it to Ex.  The court will go out of its way to make sure Ex is not used or abused by you.

My Ex also preferred phone calls so she could vent, rant and rage with impunity.  When she lost big time on that, being castigated by court for disparaging Father, she switched to texting most times after court listened to some of her calls.  I have concluded she did block my email address when we separated back in 2005, she has never responded when I emailed her details over the years.

What is hardest to deal with is the xPD need to control.  If she has majority time or equal time, then she will feel entitled.  As Gagrl suggested, you need some way to reduce her obstruction and sabotage.  It's hard to get full custody, generally doesn't happen unless it is actionable, substantive or intractable.  (Mine was intractable, disparagement continuing even after 7 years separated and 5 years divorced.)  Seeking Decision Making or Tie Breaker status is very helpful.  You don't have full custody in name but effectively you come very close to it.  Yes, she can still complain but if DM/TB are done right then it is her going to court while you proceed, not you hogtied while waiting for court to address the issue.

Probably the court won't praise you, they prefer to deal with the parents neutrally (not Winner vs Loser) if at all possible, but what they leave unsaid while making rulings will speak volumes.