He wants to know why I'm not wearing my wedding ring - Do I know?

[BeagleGirl]

We had a rough conversation Sunday where (I feel) he tried to convince me that he was addressing behaviors that I use as my reason for separation and wanted to know when I am planning to come back.  I confronted the lack of mention of (much less addressing) his BPD diagnosis.  This triggered a display of the behaviors that I am not willing to live with and I walked out.

The little interaction I've had with him since then has felt like he is trying to show me how I hurt him and he's really doing everything he can, but that could very well be me projecting, because I've kept interaction very minimal.

This morning, at 5:00 am, he texts me.  He's not an early bird, so I feel like getting the text at 5 is supposed to send me the message that I'm causing him to lose sleep (that's been the stated message in times past).  He saw our counselor yesterday and, per her advice (my translation: he's putting responsibility on her for this decision), he will be starting DBT.  He also made sure to point out that he had found a group that was led by a former leader of the Christian sexual addiction group he used to attend but that our (Christian) counselor advised a secular group that probably had more experience (my translation: she's a bad Christian for not directing him to a Christian group).

I responded back that I would like to set up a time to discuss legal separation while he works through the DBT.  *This is the point where I imagine a group of you sighing and mumbling to the screen "text is not the best form of communication for that type of thing".   .  I know, but it feels much safer.   *  He wants "more support from our counselor and pastor before agreeing to a legal separation.  Maybe a joint meeting.  Can I ask why you are not wearing your wedding band?  That has hurt me beyond belief."

So now I finally get to the reason for my post.  I know that last bit was thrown in to inspire FOG, but it genuinely has me wondering.  For a while after our separation I wore a ring.  Then I started taking it off when I wasn't going to be around him or our sons.  Now I have stopped wearing it.  While I have made the conscious decision to put on/take off the ring numerous times, I don't think I have really understood why I was taking it off (putting it on was definitely to "pretend" that everything was normal when around him and the kids).

I don't feel like I'm using the lack of a wedding ring as a signal of availability to other men.  I don't feel like I took it off to hurt my husband (though I did know that it would and accept responsibility for that consequence).  I think I took it off for me.  I think it was a reminder of a relationship that I felt trapped in and hopeless for.  I think it felt like the proverbial "ball and chain" that had me struggling to keep my head above water often and long enough to suck in some air.  

Wearing a ring for nearly 22 years leaves an indentation long after the tan line has faded.  I still find myself running my thumb over the place it used to rest.  I still see where it used to be.  Those things still bring a wave of sadness, but they also are a reminder that I am not allowing myself to be weighed down by what I SHOULD do.  I am not a victim.  I choose.  

What he doesn't see is that I still wear a covenant ring in my heart.  If I didn't, I wouldn't feel so conflicted about living a separate life.  I am his wife.  I have no idea what that means, other than that there is no room for any other man in my heart or mind.  

So I have two questions:
1.  Am I missing anything that might be contributing to me not wearing my wedding ring?
2.  Is there any sense in trying to explain any of this to my BPD husband?

BTW, if you are wondering how I responded to his question, I texted back that I would rather not explain myself via text.  When he asked if he could call, I clarified that I did not want to have a conversation with him unless it was in a public place and at a time that would not impact our S14. 

BeagleGirl

[formflier]

Hmmm... .I generally like your answer.  I  think a better answer would be that you are willing to discuss it with a counselor present, vice a public place. 


This obviously is a loaded issue for both of you. 


I would also recommend that you be flexible, in your mind, with putting the ring back on as a gesture... .AFTER... .he has done several gestures.

A form of encouragement, so to speak.

I would stay away from a "deal" that says if you do 1, 2 , 3 I will put on ring.  It is likely he will do 1 and 2... .and then half of three and turn the debate into how you should be flexible and "meet him" partway... etc etc.

Perhaps "I will discuss wearing the ring after xyz"... .one of those things would be "completion" of DBT... .or even better a "phase" of DBT.

What are "concrete" things he could do that are verifiable that you would be willing to accept in exchange for putting the ring back on?

or

Is it a big enough deal that there are no trades.  If so, I would approach communication about it in a totally different way.

Thoughts?

FF

[BeagleGirl]

FF,
Great questions. 

I started to type that I would be willing to put the ring back on, no strings attached, to eliminate that as a source of conflict, but erased that sentence because it made me want to cry.  Honestly, I think I see wearing the ring as a promise that we will get back together and that is a promise I am not willing/ready to make.  I think I also see it as a symbol of "ownership" that says he can do whatever he wants to me.

I don't have much confidence that DBT will be effective.  I feel like (and our counselor believes she sees indications that) he is adept at jumping through hoops and checking boxes without real change occurring and that the heart change is not happening.  When I confronted him on the lack of addressing his diagnosis I was clear that he had lost an opportunity to show self driven willingness to change as soon as I brought it up.  His text had red flags all through it that indicate he's just doing this because it gives me less "excuse" to move forward with legal separation.  He can point to this and say "I did DBT and I'm all better and she has to come back".  Then the trap springs shut and I live in hell again.  Or I face all the people who say "(hwBPD) is such a wonderful guy and he's even admitted and repented of things he has done to hurt BeagleGirl.  We really should pray that God will soften BeagleGirls hard heart.  We should confront her with her sin so that she can repent and be saved."  I've been through this enough times for other things (5 rounds of marriage counseling, a sexual addiction program, numerous accountability partners, promises to put boundaries around people and activities that were damaging our relationship, and the list goes on... .).  In those cases I went back (emotionally, because I hadn't left physically until this year) and suffered in silence until I just couldn't take it anymore.

Wow.  All of this oozing out over just the idea of putting a stupid ring back on. 

Here's where I am right now, which probably indicates that there's nothing he can do that would make me want to put the ring back on.

- I don't want to give him signals that say we're making progress towards me returning to our home as his wife when I don't feel that we are.
- I don't want to give him another hoop to jump through that results in surface or temporary change for him but requires me to hold myself to the spirit of a promise that I made for reciprocal action (wearing the ring means I'm working towards returning home).
- I don't want to pretend or be fake by wearing it when around him and having to worry about remembering to put it on.  (somehow I don't have the same problem remembering to take it off)
- I don't want to wear something I have come to view as a symbol of being trapped rather than a symbol of a loving covenant.

I guess I have a lot more thinking and praying to do before I'm ready to discuss this with him.  I did text our counselor to see if she can meet with both of us and plan to discuss this in the meeting I already had scheduled with our pastor for tomorrow.

[formflier]

A first reaction: 

Focus less on "real change"... .focus more on what is verifiable.

Look more at your own heart, look less at his.'

Other people don't get a vote... .whatever you can do to eliminate consideration of them... .will help everyone out.

I've struggle with similar thoughts, so don't feel bad about that.

Break things down into much smaller steps, especially if the steps can be verified.

So, he has been to DBT for 6 months.  Very verifiable. 

He is "owning" his part of things... .it is a lot murkier.  Yet, openness with professionals and small steps will help with this.

Focus less on the booboos (there will be regression)... .focus more on "how he cleans up the spilled milk" when looking for real change.

I'll think on this more... .

FF

[flourdust]

The ring is deflection (on his part)

Why not just return the subject of the ring back to the topic you were originally discussing? "I'll be happy to talk about the ring in our next counseling session."

[DaddyBear77]

I think the ring is another "red dress" - a symbolic move to value yourself as an individual, rather than in the context of "wife"

It's really important to wear (or not wear) your ring for your OWN reasons. I don't think it should be something used as leverage or a bargaining chip.

About 10 years ago, I took my ring off. The day I took it off, I kept it off. Two and a half years later, about 3 or 4 months after we started talking about reconciliation, I asked her to bring her ring and I took my ring and I handed mine back to her and she handed hers back to me. We reexchanged vows and each put the rings back on each other's finger.

That's how significant I think the wedding rings are.

[Skip]

- I don't want to wear something I have come to view as a symbol of being trapped rather than a symbol of a loving covenant.

This is one aspect of the issue.

a signal of availability to other men.  

to hurt my husband

These are also aspects of the decision.

Removing the ring sends a lot of messages to a lot of people - husband, friends, kids, co-workers, unknown men, etc.

Technically, the ring is a symbol of being married for the couple and the outside world.

If you balance (rather than isolate) all these issues, where do you come out?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey BeagleGirl, I took off my wedding ring, too, when separated from my BPDxW.  I didn't analyze my motivations at the time.  On some level, I think I knew that I was never going back to being the object of my Ex's abuse.  It was so peaceful to go home after work without the expectation of a confrontation.  Removing the ring was mostly for me, a declaration that I was no longer a prisoner of BPD.

LuckyJim

[Grey Kitty]

Wearing a ring for nearly 22 years leaves an indentation long after the tan line has faded.  I still find myself running my thumb over the place it used to rest.  I still see where it used to be.  Those things still bring a wave of sadness, but they also are a reminder that I am not allowing myself to be weighed down by what I SHOULD do.  I am not a victim.  I choose.

This resonated with me. I'm still married, although I've been separated for 2.5 years, and the last 2 of them with no efforts toward or realistic hopes of reconciliation.

I took my wedding ring off toward the end of the MC my wife and I had. I might be able to find the timeline in my diary, but it was probably around the time she told me "I don't want to be in a romantic or sexual relationship with you." I know I did it because I felt like our marriage was done.

My tanline faded by that summer. The callus on my finger around it, and the indentation took longer. Today my left and right ring fingers look and feel the same. I no longer run my finger where it used to be. It is still stuffed in a box with other things I didn't really want to ambush myself with the memories of. Haven't looked at it in a year, I think.

1.  Am I missing anything that might be contributing to me not wearing my wedding ring?

Not that I can think of.

Your feelings and how you get treated will vary from mine or Lucky Jim's, because in our society a ring on a woman means something a bit different than a ring on a man.

2.  Is there any sense in trying to explain any of this to my BPD husband?

There is a point when your marriage is over that you no longer owe your ex / stbex your feelings, and I know I'm there with my stbexwife. I suspect you should be too, whether you are there or not.

Given his BPD, it seems a particularly bad idea to try to explain your reasons/feelings. He doesn't have any real capacity to understand feelings that are separate from his own.

I think the most you owe him is something along the lines of "I took it off because I feel our marriage is over." (Your version/feelings may differ from "is over"; say what you feel instead.) Note that there isn't any reason WHY you feel that way in this statement. (I imagine you've tried to tell him this/ask for him to change a thousand times already to no avail.)

In a breakup, assuming it won't harm you personally or financially, the thing you owe is clarity that you are ending the relationship.

You don't owe him a reason. If you give him a reason, you don't even owe him a fully truthful one. If you can communicate such things to him and he can hear them, it is offering closure, and is commendable. But I don't believe it is needed. And in his case, I don't think he can hear and understand it.

[BeagleGirl]

Update:
hwBPD wanted to talk today.  He was very keen to express his hurt over me not wearing my wedding ring and get me to agree to put it back on.  I reassured him that I was not using the lack of a wedding ring as a signal to other men that I am available.  I did my best to express that the ring was a constant painful reminder of the broken state of our marriage and I didn't want to have that association with something that is supposed to symbolize our love for one another. 
I listened to his fear that it's just another step towards divorce, as is the legal separation I am asking for.  I tried to explain to him that if I wanted a divorce, I'd be asking for a divorce.  I am not looking for freedom to start another relationship, but I do want the opportunity to renegotiate the financial and custodial arrangements that I agreed to when I was "running from a burning building" 3 months ago and just wanted out of the house with as little drama as possible.  I also want legal protection for me and accountability for him, something I don't get with the informal agreement witnessed by our pastor or counselor that he his proposing.
Then the crazy began.  After about 30 minutes dodging emotional abuse techniques (gaslighting, blame shifting, minimization, etc) and tons of FOG, I got to the point of saying "If you can't stop focusing on doing things that you think will get me to come back and start focusing on doing what you need to do to become healthy, I will take away the hope you have of my returning to our marriage.  I will no longer be asking for a legal separation.  I will be asking for a divorce.  We've been through the "jumping through hoops" too many times for me to have any hope that short term actions and behaviors would be sustained if I came back." 
I tolerated another few minutes of crazy, then said I needed to leave the conversation.  He physically blocked me from leaving the room.  This is an action I have confronted in the past as something that makes me fear him and breaks trust because he knows I consider it abusive.  I looked him in the eye and told him very slowly and firmly to get out of my way.  I think that served to remind him of what he was doing, and he stepped out of the way, but then he chased me down the hallway begging me to come back and talk.

He's supposed to be starting DBT at some some point in the near future.  He's trying to FOG me out of the legal separation by creating doubt that he would still be covered on my insurance if we are legally separated.  Everything general I have read about our state law indicates that legal separation would not impact his ability to be on my insurance policy, but I'll confirm with my employer tomorrow. 

I feel like he is making it so hard to move forward with the legal separation and fighting so hard for "his rights" that it is triggering rebellion in me.  I feel like saying "If you don't appreciate that I'm NOT divorcing you and am willing to foot the bill for your housing, food, care of your children AND treatment, then maybe I will just move forward to with a divorce and be done with you".  When he traps me in a room when I am asking to take a break so I don't speak and act out of hurt and anger I feel like he should understand that he's going to face the consequences. 

Tonight I don't really care that my actions are hurting him.  He kept asking why I'm so negative and don't give him credit for the things he's doing right (like putting $1000 in the joint account that I put money in and he uses to pay bills - he didn't actually tell me he did it.  He wanted me to notice on my own so he didn't seem to be boastful about doing it.)  I told him I feel like a dog who is repeatedly kicked and expected to lick his hand and love him when he occasionally gives me a treat.

I guess I should get some sleep and see if things look different in the morning.  At least he's not text bombing me.

[formflier]

  I looked him in the eye and told him very slowly and firmly to get out of my way. 

Solid work!     

I know the situation sucked... bigtime.  This type of interaction is what you need to focus on.  This is what I'm talking about when I say succinct. 

I'll take some time later and provide other comments.  There are still some big picture items about your story that I need to get a clearer view of.

When it mattered... .you did solid work.  You may have to do it again.  Wherever you found the resolve to say things the way you did... .you need to go back to that place more often.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

  Good job standing up for yourself, protecting yourself and getting out even when he was trying to block your exit. You are recovering yourself, your spirit, and your values... .and it is showing. It looks good on you (like the red dress!) And don't beat yourself up if these two steps forward are followed by one step back.

There is something you are doing or wanting to do with him in these comments:

I did my best to express that the ring was a constant painful reminder of the broken state of our marriage and I didn't want to have that association with something that is supposed to symbolize our love for one another. 

I feel like saying "If you don't appreciate that I'm NOT divorcing you and am willing to foot the bill for your housing, food, care of your children AND treatment, then maybe I will just move forward to with a divorce and be done with you".

I told him I feel like a dog who is repeatedly kicked and expected to lick his hand and love him when he occasionally gives me a treat.

You are sharing your feelings and motivations with him, or at least wanting to. You are wanting him to understand you, and (no matter how unlikely it is!) even validate your feelings and your choices.

I don't think you owe that to him anymore. And I'm not seeing any results that are good for you or your marriage in his response or reaction to it when you do try. Are you seeing anything good arising when you do this?

[Lucky Jim]

I tolerated another few minutes of crazy, then said I needed to leave the conversation.  He physically blocked me from leaving the room.  This is an action I have confronted in the past as something that makes me fear him and breaks trust because he knows I consider it abusive.  I looked him in the eye and told him very slowly and firmly to get out of my way.

Hey BG, You're right, it is abusive.  My BPDxW frequently blocked me from leaving the room, to the point where I made sure I had an exit available before getting into a discussion w/her.  Think you handled it well.  Trapping anyone in a room, in my view, is abusive and unacceptable.  Such treatment led to me feeling like a prisoner, which only encouraged my resolve to break free from her.

LuckyJim

[Grey Kitty]

Trapping anyone in a room, in my view, is abusive and unacceptable.

FYI, trapping somebody so they cannot leave like this is legally considered domestic violence in many jurisdictions.

If looking him in the eye and telling him to get out of your way doesn't get him to back down, the next step is telling him you will dial 911 for the police if he doesn't let you go.

From what you've said, BG, he sounds unlikely to escalate things to the level where you need to do this.