Adult Child

[Parents! Get help here!]

Our 27 year daughter has had 10 years of chaos interspersed with fairly long periods of seeming stability.  Until last month, she has held a job since she was 16 but the rest of her life has been erratic, chaotic. Relationships, finances, friends, situations.  Seemingly normal childhood.  Capable but disinterested academically.  good childhood friends though only 1 really close, she had a big group of friends.  As her mom, I always felt she was "just outside the group" - never because the group seemed to be rejecting her, she just held back and was anxious about initiating contact. And in hindsight, I see that early on, she was "whoever she was around".  Poor middle school experience, kids from 10 elementary schools funneled into 2 teams and she was split from her childhood friends and on the "bad team".  One team had lots of field trips, group activities, her team did none of these things.  As a Jr.  in high school, she bonded with one girl outside her group.  We found they were both cutting and she spent 3 nights in psych hospital. Psych told us "she is not a cutter-her marks are superficial, her pain is real" His take was it was copycat action to secure bond with her new best friend.  He also told us, she would be very difficult to treat, she knew just what to say but unwilling or unable to express her true self.  She went into counseling, did some DBT.  That psych brought up BPD but was very cautious in labeling as she was 17 - teenage brain or mental illness are sometimes hard to distinquish. 
shortly thereafter, she turned 18 and refused to go to DBT, "she was fine"  Sr year brought the "love of her life" in a boyfriend, he was an alcoholic, possibly abusive though she to this day won't admit that.  That lasted for about 16 mo when she dumped him and he was a horrible person.  Picked up with new boyfriend.  They moved in together and were together for about 3 years.  By this time, there was little to no contact with HS friends, when we would see these friends, they would all ask about her and tell you they'd invited her to get together but she would never show.  She would tell us they were all fake, mean, drunks or worse.  This seemed to be her most stable relationship but they lived in filth and had frequent financial difficulties, lost or broken phones, cars towed (lived in Mpls where they just couldn't manage to move car during snow emergencies), purses stolen on light rail.  Bad things would "just happen"... very much victim mentality.  She dumped him at a family member's wedding, ugly situation where the cousins, her sister and bf were all very drunk, her sister, just 21 and not a drinker, had never been drunk, after BPD daughter dumped the bf in front of everyone, he and little sister had sex - Drunken rape I would call it. BPD daughter took up with ex-bf's boss (similar ages), another severe alcoholic, didn't last long, no financial problems because he had enough money to fix problems, you could see she had no respect for him.  then there was a series of picking up strays, tinder connections.  phones, laptops stolen by losers she was hanging out with.  Found one girlfriend.  Another soulmate. They drank together, created chaos, let some acquaintence with a felony drive her car, got arrested and put in drunk tank for weekend. more chaos, legal fees, car impound expenses.  Brought some true loser, crackhead around our house one day, hung with him for a few weeks and through him me current bf who was a recovered heroin/crack addict but was still drinking.  The 1st guy was stalking her, slashed tires, through bricks thru windows.  New boyfriend had no job, she had a good job at time and supported him for a year in Minneapolis.  He was educated, truly clean from drugs but still had a problem.  We lived in 'burbs, they lived in city, one night we got a call to come, she had called police, he had grabbed her and taken her car keys.  We went downtown. she was drunk, he had run, was taunting cops by hitting lock button on car.  Ultimately, the cops caught him, threw him in jail. By morning she insisted it was all bs.  "He took her keys because she was talking about driving to store, she had really screwed up, messing up his life because she was an idiot... .".  Convinced us that she caused the problem and we should front bail money.  We helped them out... .Couldn't make out this guy, educated, from "good family", had to give him credit for kicking heroin, crack, opiods.  Weeks after that, they started partying with some neighbors, he passed out and some guy raped her in her bathroom.  Pretty brutal rape, choking.
Things kind of settled down, they significantly reduced drinking (but didn't totally quit just stopped hard liquor and drank beer on weekends only).  Her sister was living in Phx, BPD found a job in Phoenix and we had always had intention to retire in AZ so she moved with boyfriend. He at last found work and things were pretty stable.  We moved out here about 10 months later.  Things seemed pretty stable until about Thanksgiving and he began going off the rails, lots of drinking, crazy thoughts, she was spiraling with him.  3-4 late night, you need to come.  She was calling crisis intervention, cops.  He is finally convinced that he has not kicked addiction issues and agrees to go to alcohol rehab  She is supportive, encouraging, still insisting she doesn't have an alcohol problem.  But once he's gone to rehab, after a week or two, she is unable to go to work, social anxiety, hates job that she's been doing for 10 years, falling apart, he is her only friend out here.  He is trying to detach from her- telling her that he is being encouraged to end old relationship and really thinks he will need a year or more to restore himself.  She comes up with a grandiose plan (but we were open to her following through with this even though we were quietly skeptical of her ability to pull it off).  She is hanging onto the hope of their relationship in spite of his pushing her aside.  She had stayed sober through this 6-8 weeks of him being in rehab/sober living.  Then last Sunday morning, she called us drunk saying she needed to go into rehab herself.  We're torn... .is this another copycat, bonding behavior in attempt to be just like bf.  Don't know, we did check her into a rehab program.  Hope being that they have good psych's, good dual diagnosis methodology.  If nothing else, she will have at least 30 days of intensive counseling that may get her connected with support.  Her in-patient counselor did call me and confirmed that mental health is the primary issue.  Also confirmed, it's a lifelong issue and daunting.  We do not have a firm diagnosis of BPD but when I told this counselor that it had been brought up as a possibility years ago, that it may be valid.  The counseling staff is also concerned that her primary motivation is the boyfriend who they also think is trying to cut ties and she is not allowing it to happen. 

That is our story in a nutshell.  We found the video on Validating/Invalidating to be helpful and we are going to try to commit this strategy to our interactions going forward.  We are still left to clean up the practical mess that is going on.  Financially challenging to decide how to handle the implications of no job, apartment lease, personal belongings in an apartment that may likely result in eviction notice, 2 cats that we can't take in as we are also renters and at our 2 pet maximum.  She is adamant that we don't move her stuff, get rid of cats.  She understands how much more difficult her life will become with ruined credit, eviction notice but her expectations on how this will play out seem unrealistic.  The only part of her treatment that we can currently help with are the practical... .we are willing and able to move her stuff to storage, find foster homes for cats while she is in treatment.  Torn about validating behaviors.  If we move stuff against her desire and she gets evicted when she can't pay rent next month, then we will have done the right thing.  If she is released to out patient and gets disability pay or returns to work, then we are complete losers for having moved her stuff out.  The boyfriends phone is on our family plan, if we cut it off, we give him an excuse to reconnect with her (because he will likely feed her hope that things will work out in order to maintain his phone service).  but continuing to pay for the phone, validates her belief that she must help him.  Hard decisions, as older parents nearing retirement, we worry for her sister having to manage this when we are gone or unable to physically, financially help.  Definitely a family issue.  She loves/resents her sister.  She deeply feels that we have invested more in her sister who was very academically gifted.  No way to get BPD daughter to understand how much we love her, our first born, how deeply we want to see her life normalize and for her to find some peace.  Nor to get her to see how much more we have physically, emotionally and financially invested in BPD daughter.  Yes, we helped youngest with undergrad school.  It was an option for both children.  The non-BPD child is responsible, has never needed or asked for help since graduating.  Lived frugally in college and afterwards.  Our hearts hurt, we are tired and hopeful that this site can help us improve our interactions and reactions.   

[Phoenix Mom]

Our 27 year daughter has had 10 years of chaos interspersed with fairly long periods of seeming stability.  Until last month, she has held a job since she was 16 but the rest of her life has been erratic, chaotic. Relationships, finances, friends, situations.  Seemingly normal childhood.  Capable but disinterested academically.  good childhood friends though only 1 really close, she had a big group of friends.  As her mom, I always felt she was "just outside the group" - never because the group seemed to be rejecting her, she just held back and was anxious about initiating contact. And in hindsight, I see that early on, she was "whoever she was around".  Poor middle school experience, kids from 10 elementary schools funneled into 2 teams and she was split from her childhood friends and on the "bad team".  One team had lots of field trips, group activities, her team did none of these things.  As a Jr.  in high school, she bonded with one girl outside her group.  We found they were both cutting and she spent 3 nights in psych hospital. Psych told us "she is not a cutter-her marks are superficial, her pain is real" His take was it was copycat action to secure bond with her new best friend.  He also told us, she would be very difficult to treat, she knew just what to say but unwilling or unable to express her true self.  She went into counseling, did some DBT.  That psych brought up BPD but was very cautious in labeling as she was 17 - teenage brain or mental illness are sometimes hard to distinquish. 
shortly thereafter, she turned 18 and refused to go to DBT, "she was fine"  Sr year brought the "love of her life" in a boyfriend, he was an alcoholic, possibly abusive though she to this day won't admit that.  That lasted for about 16 mo when she dumped him and he was a horrible person.  Picked up with new boyfriend.  They moved in together and were together for about 3 years.  By this time, there was little to no contact with HS friends, when we would see these friends, they would all ask about her and tell you they'd invited her to get together but she would never show.  She would tell us they were all fake, mean, drunks or worse.  This seemed to be her most stable relationship but they lived in filth and had frequent financial difficulties, lost or broken phones, cars towed (lived in Mpls where they just couldn't manage to move car during snow emergencies), purses stolen on light rail.  Bad things would "just happen"... very much victim mentality.  She dumped him at a family member's wedding, ugly situation where the cousins, her sister and bf were all very drunk, her sister, just 21 and not a drinker, had never been drunk, after BPD daughter dumped the bf in front of everyone, he and little sister had sex - Drunken rape I would call it. BPD daughter took up with ex-bf's boss (similar ages), another severe alcoholic, didn't last long, no financial problems because he had enough money to fix problems, you could see she had no respect for him.  then there was a series of picking up strays, tinder connections.  phones, laptops stolen by losers she was hanging out with.  Found one girlfriend.  Another soulmate. They drank together, created chaos, let some acquaintence with a felony drive her car, got arrested and put in drunk tank for weekend. more chaos, legal fees, car impound expenses.  Brought some true loser, crackhead around our house one day, hung with him for a few weeks and through him me current bf who was a recovered heroin/crack addict but was still drinking.  The 1st guy was stalking her, slashed tires, through bricks thru windows.  New boyfriend had no job, she had a good job at time and supported him for a year in Minneapolis.  He was educated, truly clean from drugs but still had a problem.  We lived in 'burbs, they lived in city, one night we got a call to come, she had called police, he had grabbed her and taken her car keys.  We went downtown. she was drunk, he had run, was taunting cops by hitting lock button on car.  Ultimately, the cops caught him, threw him in jail. By morning she insisted it was all bs.  "He took her keys because she was talking about driving to store, she had really screwed up, messing up his life because she was an idiot... .".  Convinced us that she caused the problem and we should front bail money.  We helped them out... .Couldn't make out this guy, educated, from "good family", had to give him credit for kicking heroin, crack, opiods.  Weeks after that, they started partying with some neighbors, he passed out and some guy raped her in her bathroom.  Pretty brutal rape, choking.
Things kind of settled down, they significantly reduced drinking (but didn't totally quit just stopped hard liquor and drank beer on weekends only).  Her sister was living in Phx, BPD found a job in Phoenix and we had always had intention to retire in AZ so she moved with boyfriend. He at last found work and things were pretty stable.  We moved out here about 10 months later.  Things seemed pretty stable until about Thanksgiving and he began going off the rails, lots of drinking, crazy thoughts, she was spiraling with him.  3-4 late night, you need to come.  She was calling crisis intervention, cops.  He is finally convinced that he has not kicked addiction issues and agrees to go to alcohol rehab  She is supportive, encouraging, still insisting she doesn't have an alcohol problem.  But once he's gone to rehab, after a week or two, she is unable to go to work, social anxiety, hates job that she's been doing for 10 years, falling apart, he is her only friend out here.  He is trying to detach from her- telling her that he is being encouraged to end old relationship and really thinks he will need a year or more to restore himself.  She comes up with a grandiose plan (but we were open to her following through with this even though we were quietly skeptical of her ability to pull it off).  She is hanging onto the hope of their relationship in spite of his pushing her aside.  She had stayed sober through this 6-8 weeks of him being in rehab/sober living.  Then last Sunday morning, she called us drunk saying she needed to go into rehab herself.  We're torn... .is this another copycat, bonding behavior in attempt to be just like bf.  Don't know, we did check her into a rehab program.  Hope being that they have good psych's, good dual diagnosis methodology.  If nothing else, she will have at least 30 days of intensive counseling that may get her connected with support.  Her in-patient counselor did call me and confirmed that mental health is the primary issue.  Also confirmed, it's a lifelong issue and daunting.  We do not have a firm diagnosis of BPD but when I told this counselor that it had been brought up as a possibility years ago, that it may be valid.  The counseling staff is also concerned that her primary motivation is the boyfriend who they also think is trying to cut ties and she is not allowing it to happen. 

That is our story in a nutshell.  We found the video on Validating/Invalidating to be helpful and we are going to try to commit this strategy to our interactions going forward.  We are still left to clean up the practical mess that is going on.  Financially challenging to decide how to handle the implications of no job, apartment lease, personal belongings in an apartment that may likely result in eviction notice, 2 cats that we can't take in as we are also renters and at our 2 pet maximum.  She is adamant that we don't move her stuff, get rid of cats.  She understands how much more difficult her life will become with ruined credit, eviction notice but her expectations on how this will play out seem unrealistic.  The only part of her treatment that we can currently help with are the practical... .we are willing and able to move her stuff to storage, find foster homes for cats while she is in treatment.  Torn about validating behaviors.  If we move stuff against her desire and she gets evicted when she can't pay rent next month, then we will have done the right thing.  If she is released to out patient and gets disability pay or returns to work, then we are complete losers for having moved her stuff out.  The boyfriends phone is on our family plan, if we cut it off, we give him an excuse to reconnect with her (because he will likely feed her hope that things will work out in order to maintain his phone service).  but continuing to pay for the phone, validates her belief that she must help him.  Hard decisions, as older parents nearing retirement, we worry for her sister having to manage this when we are gone or unable to physically, financially help.  Definitely a family issue.  She loves/resents her sister.  She deeply feels that we have invested more in her sister who was very academically gifted.  No way to get BPD daughter to understand how much we love her, our first born, how deeply we want to see her life normalize and for her to find some peace.  Nor to get her to see how much more we have physically, emotionally and financially invested in BPD daughter.  Yes, we helped youngest with undergrad school.  It was an option for both children.  The non-BPD child is responsible, has never needed or asked for help since graduating.  Lived frugally in college and afterwards.  Our hearts hurt, we are tired and hopeful that this site can help us improve our interactions and reactions.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi there Phoenix mom

First of all welcome to the forum. I've read your post and am very sorry to hear about all the troubles, dramas and heartaches you've have endured. Our adult children and their bad choices are hard to bear.

My adult son was dx at 24 and he's now 26 so only a bit younger than your daughter. I've a younger child just like you, he's only 16. He's the complete opposite to his older brother. He's a good kid and I know he feels resentful, he doesn't understand how anyone at 26 is still living at home.

You've said your older daughter has managed to work for most of her adult life and that she's recently lost her job. It sounds as if she's been functioning (just?) and she's tipped over the edge. There has to be a motivation to change and crisis and drama is part of that territory, its extremely hard to watch our kids suffer and there's little doubt they're in pain and unable to cope with normal day to day life. You clearly love her very much.

It's great that she's in the rehab facility. Hopefully, she's ready to start taking responsibility for herself. She's an adult and remembering where the problems belong is important.

We're near retiring too and yes, there are hard decisions. We've accepted our BPDs26 back home, I've passed the responsibility for his life to him. I do not give him money, pay any bills, I'm willing to feed him and let him live with us if he pays a contribution towards his living costs. He was reluctant to take thevresponsibility, but it's his. It's not anybody else's and I'm glad my sons  aren't too close because We do not want our younger son to ever feel responsible. To behave like an adult, you need to be treated like one.

This forum has been my life saviour. Our lives were so caught up in the dramas, shelling out our hard earned money trying to help. I encourage you to read about BPD (take a look at the top right hand side of this page). The more I learned the more I understood and then the less I reacted. I got the knowledge I needed to be more effective as a parent. There's help here for you to learn how to better interact with both of your daughters, set boundaries and limits and find a life for yourselves.

Have you heard how your older daughter is responding to her treatment?

LP