How have your boundaries been lately?

[Tattered Heart]

After responding, please share why you chose your response and how your boundary worked, didn't work, or a scenario in which you need help with a boundary.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

My H has a history of attacking my faith. Anytime anything goes wrong in the world, he expects me to answer for every single person of my faith. He venomously call me "Good Christian" when he is angry with me. He points out ways in which I fail in my faith. He hates church and that I go to church. In the past I would try to argue with him about it and defend myself. He never accepted my answers as good enough answers and it just left me hurt and angry with him.

This week, I realized that my trying to convince him otherwise was doing no good. He really wasn't looking for answers to his questions, he just wanted to cause me to doubt myself. I decided that I would not discuss this topic with him anymore.

So this weekend when he brought up religion, I politely told him that I would love to have conversation with him, but this was a topic that I no longer wanted to talk about. He began to goad me a little and I remained calm, simply restating that this conversation does not go well with us and I wouldn't talk about it anymore. He wanted to continue talking about it and because the conversation had not gotten to the point of me needing to leave the house, I would quietly and calmly tell him that I wanted to converse with him, just not about this subject.  I excused myself and began to sweep the kitchen, file my fingernails, etc. After 20 minutes of him trying to get a reaction out of me, he changed the subject and I began to engage with him and we had such great conversation that he even thanked me for taking the time to talk with him.

Yesterday at lunch he tried to bring up religion again. He asked me a couple of questions about my new church and said "I guess I should go with you, but you probably don't want me to ruin it for you" I gently said, "I would like you to go, but I am not going to force him or demand that he go. If you would like to go, that would be great. If not, that's ok too." He began to push a little on the topic of religion and began to goad a little about why I go to church. I calmly said, "As I told you yesterday, this isn't a subject I want to talk about." Then I immediately changed the subject and he went along with the subject change.

[CMJ]

I chose "I tried to set a boundary, but I still struggle with how to do it correctly". I chose it because my situation's ongoing so I don't know how it turned out yet 
I struggle a bit with them. I understand the theory, but find it hard recognising when to apply them.

Currently I'm getting the silent treatment, my boundary is that I won't chase and to minimise opportunities to be ignored further. So far it's been 5 days and I've only sent 1 message (yesterday) to test the waters.

[isilme]

My husband started yelling last week, on Sunday.  I was trying to get him to stick to his own boundary about letting 'friends' use his time, skills, and labor on projects they then take credit for and often do not pay for in any way (he likes to do a myriad of things, right now it is leather-working season).  He wanted to talk about making something for a frined.  It went from a small item to a full elather skirt with a belt with pockets.  This is a considerable amount of work, he was already stressed about his own stuff which I am encouraing him to focus on.  He has done a lot for these people over the eyars and they have let dogs eat his work, have complained about fit after giving him wrong measurements, and then simply don't seem to appreicate that he has made them items that sell for $50 or more.  I am not trying to be mean, rude, or burn bridges, and simply pointed out a small item makes sense, a large one, not so much.  He was also coming down from all the hurricane prep, that thank goodness we did not get much damage from. 

After realizing he was not going to stop anytime soon, and his anger at the friends was what was ebings ent my way, I got dressed and left to go to the store.  It's my way of taking a break without making a big deal of taking a break.  I find an errand he can't aruge with.  I was accused of running away, but I knew we needed simple stuff like bread (stores have been out since before Harvey hit).

I came back, he was subdued, accused me of making him feel bad ("all of you" includes me as well as the actual people who have hurt his feelings.  I was guilty of making him remember they have taken advantage of him, not so much becuase they are terrible people, but because he never tells them how much time and money these items take.).  We moved past it (he blew up again this past weekend, but it was a little more fo the same). 

Internally, I also set a boundary for myself that I will not accept hurt or blame (any more than I can avoid letting in) for thigns that are certainly not my fault.

[IsThisThingOn]

I chose: I tried to set a boundary, but I still struggle with how to do it correctly

When my upwBPD and I decided to try and make this work we both agreed on taking things slow and committing to getting her into therapy (I already am in therapy) and finding a couples therapist. We also set the boundary that I would not be moving back in for quite some time. This was something we both agreed would be a smart decision in making sure the relationship was happy and healthy.

The relationship has been happy and healthy. However, the boundary of not moving in "for quite some time" seems to have held different meanings in both our minds. For me it meant after we had a proven track record of no discards, no drawn out rages, and effective communication whenever something did come up that we needed to resolve. In her mind, a month of being back together was more than enough time and should have been for me as well. This became an ongoing thing where she would have bursts of "Move in or else... " followed by lots and lots of communication that would eventually end with us setting different milestones for moving in... .those milestones being what I already mentioned.

Well, in the end it has led to her discarding me (yesterday) because I wasnt moving at the pace she in her mind expected regardless of the countless conversations we had reasserting our decision to wait.

I think when the boundary was initially set it probably should have included a timeframe. That may have been mistake number one. Mistake number 2 and 3 would be not stating the "milestones" from the beginning (although... .I think I may have touched on them. Should have been clearer) and then JADEing when the conversation did come up. I explained multiple times how these bursts were making it harder to feel confident that moving back in would be a good thing right now. She, eventually, acknowledged how it makes sense it would make me apprehensive. Mistake number 4 would be in how, even though I wouldnt 'officially' move in, I was basically 'unofficially' moved in... .staying over 4-5 days/nights a week. I allowed the boundary to be foggy.

Now, with being discarded and this being part of the reasons she gave as to why it was over, I'm not sure what to do. How to bring this back full circle and get me back to the "white"

A part of me wants to give in and say: lets get back together, I'll move in, do whatever you want.

The logical part of me knows that will only reinforce negative behavior and reinforce the cycle.  I want to move past this with her and get us back to a good place... .we have had no serious issues to speak of since deciding we'd try to make this work. None other than this never-ending Move-In-Debate.

I did not do a very good job at setting this boundary. I know I am to blame for it turning out how it did. But... .now what?

[Tattered Heart]

I chose "I tried to set a boundary, but I still struggle with how to do it correctly". I chose it because my situation's ongoing so I don't know how it turned out yet 
I struggle a bit with them. I understand the theory, but find it hard recognising when to apply them.

Currently I'm getting the silent treatment, my boundary is that I won't chase and to minimise opportunities to be ignored further. So far it's been 5 days and I've only sent 1 message (yesterday) to test the waters.

That's a great boundary. It focuses on your behavior and not the behavior of your spouse. What part of boundaries do you feel like you struggle with the most?

[Tattered Heart]

Internally, I also set a boundary for myself that I will not accept hurt or blame (any more than I can avoid letting in) for thigns that are certainly not my fault.

When those accusation come, what do you do to prevent yourself from taking them personally or to not take blame?

[Tattered Heart]

A part of me wants to give in and say: lets get back together, I'll move in, do whatever you want.

The logical part of me knows that will only reinforce negative behavior and reinforce the cycle.  I want to move past this with her and get us back to a good place... .we have had no serious issues to speak of since deciding we'd try to make this work. None other than this never-ending Move-In-Debate.

I did not do a very good job at setting this boundary. I know I am to blame for it turning out how it did. But... .now what?

You guys have been stuck at this impasse for awhile. From what I've seen in your posts it looks like you have really thought through your boundary on moving back in, but you're just nervous about it. Now that she has left, do you feel like your boundary as shifted? Or is it still important to you that you see improvement before moving back in?

[IsThisThingOn]

From what I've seen in your posts it looks like you have really thought through your boundary on moving back in, but you're just nervous about it. Now that she has left, do you feel like your boundary as shifted? Or is it still important to you that you see improvement before moving back in?

I have been extremely nervous about it. Stability is very important to me. As I'm sure it is to most people. The past was very unstable. I think I had a hard time accepting this isn't the past and I can't treat it as such given the great strides we have made.

Where I stand now: I recognize how my hesitation caused her to feel insecure and unstable. Completely not what I wanted at all. I also realize that unintentionally making her feel that way in turn caused her to act in ways that made me feel unstable. It's been an extremely counter productive boundary. With that being said... .it appears to me that my ultimate goal by setting the boundary in the first place would be met by taking a leap of faith. Trusting that the great strides we've made are examples of how moving in together again would be different this time around. For the better.

It seems pretty clear to me that doing so would ultimately solve both our problems

[isilme]

tattered,

I have a mantra going on in my head "this is not about me, he is dysregulating, just get past the storm and move on." 

When I am not tired or beaten down by being sick or stressed from my own job, I can usually hold to this, and refrain from horrible invalidation.  I kinda have translated a lot of the outbursts into a form of IBS kinda of word-vomit/diarrhea.  He can't keep it in, and can't get it out in a healthy way (not all the time, but he has improved a LOT since his late 20s and ealry 30s).  So, when someone has food poisoning, it's best for them to get it all out, even if it's smelly and gross at the time.  And someone suffering is not going to be nice the whole time.  I am there.  I am often the one blamed as the scapegoat.  But it's really not about me. 

That was a big eye-opener, the day he confided he cannot deal with anger unless he can yell AT a person.  He cannot be mad at the weather without yelling at a person.  A flat tire.  Any score of events that have no real person to blame, he still can't process the feelings and needs to yell.  And his self-awareness there was huge.  He really is working on himself, even without me ever stating I think he has BPD.  It's not consistent, and is often 3 steps forward, two steps back, but it' still something. 

I know what I do (most of the time) and what I do and don't believe, feel, and am overall responsible for.  Sometimes, he has a point and I try to listen to that.  Much of the time I am able to realize he is yelling at himself, his mom, his work, his sugar is low/high, he has a fever, it's often about anyone BUT me.  I am just the person in the room - he'd do the same to his mom, his brother, or another person had he married them.  It's not ME as the individual who is Isilme.  It's the warm body closest to him physically AND emotionally that gets it, but the stimulus is rarely anything I have actually done.  And that somehow helps me, well, ignore the worst aspects of it. 

And then I do my very best to not let the replay of the event go on and on in my head.  I don't really let myself hold onto anger anyway, it's just how I am, so once we are past the crisis mode, I really don't want to rehash it, prove I was right, or other things along those lines.  I see them as counter productive.  If I need to vent or am mad enough to need to yell, I usually do it alone in the car when he is not with me. 

I know a lot of this is just the evolution of my coping mechanisms from a poorly managed childhood, but overall, I think it works for me.  He's lucky I was raised in such a horrible household that his outbursts are kinda low on the scale of shocking to me.  Dad's would go on for hours at a time and get really violent.  Mom's would rage and then she'd get him riled up and complain he beat me after she goaded him into it.
 Then both would shun/ engage in silent treatment for days at a time.

I have realized looking at my friends that I am so weirdly self-reliant, that I own up to the fact I CHOOSE to stay with H.  Other than cat-custody, I could pick up and go if I chose to at this time.  So I know I am making a choice, that I find his outbursts mostly manageable (with the help of tools like this board), and so I accept that I am choosing to endure the weird, the unpleasant and sometimes crazy actions of my H. 

[CMJ]

That's a great boundary. It focuses on your behavior and not the behavior of your spouse. What part of boundaries do you feel like you struggle with the most?

Mainly when to enforce them/put them in place. I have difficulty recognising when it's ok to say I'm not ok with being treated this way.

For example, the current boundary I'm enforcing, when/if I reach out to test the waters I wonder if it's sending the message that I'm ok with being ignored when I'm not. But I'm also scared that if I leave it to her to come to me that I'll never hear from her again.

[pearlsw]

Thanks for all the insights and support here! This is so helpful.

isilme, thanks for writing about how you deal with your anger.

"If I need to vent or am mad enough to need to yell, I usually do it alone in the car when he is not with me."

I think I am similar to you a bit. When I am alone I find I say a few choice things or sometimes have a few choice gestures for my husband when I think of things he's said or done, but I avoid behaving that way with him directly. I feel a little less of a jerk about it when I picture you driving around venting too.

[Tattered Heart]

I wonder if one of the reasons we have difficulty sticking to our boundaries is because it can be hard to understand what is and isn't a boundary. Boundaries are like invisible fences that define where my property ends and someone else's begins.  A boundary is distinguishing between what I am responsible for and what other people are responsible for. Boundaries keep the good in and the bad out. Some examples of things that each individual person is responsible for are:

• Feelings
• Attitudes
• Behaviors
• Choices
• Limits
• Talents
• Thoughts
• Values
• Likes & Dislikes

Since we have responsibility for these things then we have ownership of them, which in turn gives us control over these responsibilities. One aspect of control, especially in regards to BPD is to limit our exposure to negative reactions (including our own negative reactions).

Looking at this list of responsibilities, which responsibilities have you given away or given control of to your pwBPD?

What is a boundary you could begin evaluate to take your responsibility back?

[Tattered Heart]

For example: I find that I will often say things like, “I’ll never be happy in this marriage.”

Setting the boundary would look like this value statement:

“I will be happy”.

Then begin creating action steps and questions that will help you determine what is yours and what isn’t. For instance this could include:

1.   What parts of my happiness have I given away to my H?
2.   What does happiness look like to me?
3.   Make a list of my attitudes I’ve had that have led to my unhappiness?
4.   When I have been unhappy in the past, what thoughts led me to this? How can I change my thoughts when I feel unhappy?
5.   How can I choose to be happy today?
6.   Are there any limits I need to put on myself to improve my happiness? (Sometimes my limit may include removing myself from my H's presence, but it's not to change his behavior, but instead to support my value of happiness)
7.   Are there any choices I need to make to begin finding happiness in my marriage?

Notice that none of these questions has to do with my H’s behavior. Why? Because MY feelings are MY responsibility, not his.