My pwBPD wants me to accept his emotional affair because he "needs" it.

[notjustus2]

This could be a very long post, and anyone reading to the end may want to pop some popcorn first... .

My husband and I have been married for almost 9 years now.  He had told me he had BPD but it never really seemed to affect us in the beginning.  We have two children, his daughter and my son.  When my son was 14 he said he wanted to kill himself because my pwBPD is mean to him.  My pwBPD is strict, but by no means has he done anything that I am aware of that would cause someone to want to die.  All that being said, my son was only 14 and I truly believe he is depressed and even though my pwBPD's actions wouldn't normally elicit such a response from let's say a typical adult, my son was only 14 and did not have the coping skills to realize how to handle himself when confronted with being raised by a strict step parent.  That day changed our lives forever, our marriage, my relationship with my son, his relationship with my pwBPD.  I took my son seriously and immediately took him to the crisis center.  They did not believe he was a harm to himself or others so they sent him home with me and we started counseling.  Over the course of the next 4 years I spent a lot of time worrying about my son, trying to do right by him so that he wouldn't off himself, and there was a lot of stress with me and my pwBPD due to this.  He said I was coddling my son, which is true to an extent, he always accused me of choosing my son over him which any reasonable parent would.  I handled my son wrong.  Instead of giving him rules and consequences I gave him rules, chores, etc and would often cave in on the consequences when it was time to deliver them.  I lived in fear.  Every morning I would wake up and check my son's room to make sure he wasn't hanging from his loft bed.  When I say I lived in fear I mean the fear controlled me.  And much to the detriment of my marriage.  I would often not take the advise of my pwBPD because I thought, "If I do that my son will become upset and possibly kill himself"... .It took me a LONG ASS TIME to realize that he was manipulating me. 

I thought when my son went to college he would be out of the house and my relationship with my husband would begin to improve because he wouldn't be constantly nagging me about what to do with my son, how to raise him, etc.  Well, a few weeks or so before my son went to college I found out my husband was hanging out with this girl the used to work with.  He had taken her to his friends house with his daughter while I was working my second job.  He had also snuck out of our bed at night to keep her company while she went to the car wash in the middle of the night, he swears he never touched her.  I was scared to death I was going to lose my husband so I invited her to our home.  One thing led to another and we ended up in a relationship with her for a while, a few months.  I will admit that I had fun with her, but when she started neglecting us things got bad.  It was weird, the days when I was distraught about her my husband was hopeful about her, the days he was distraught over here I would always be positive about her and try to talk to him about how great she was.  She wasn't great.  She was a drug addict that only came around when she needed stuff from us.  We spent so much money on her, it was ridiculous.  In hindsight I see that it was wrong, instead of inviting her into my marriage out of fear I should have just addressed our issues with my husband.  We did have the discussion that I never wanted him to have his own thing on the side, anything we do, we do together as a couple looking for a little something extra.  For the first 10-12 days it was awesome, then she started ignoring us off and on and just really being a terrible girlfriend.  We dealt with that for months before finally it became too much and we broke it off with her.  Sure, I miss having a girl around that I can talk to and do stuff with, but it's for the best, she really was a dirtbag.  My pwBPD has always said he can't get over one person unless another person is there to help him through it.  I thought that was me... .but because of all the stress of the past 4 years with my son he didn't trust me to be there for him even though a kind of "woke up" when we started seeing this girl, my fire inside for my husbands attention and love and all the feelings of when we were new came back.  My son was away at college and I was feeling less stress. I thought I was that person for him.  About a week after we broke up with her he admitted to me he was talking to someone that lives 5 hours away on the side that was helping him through our break up with our gf.  I felt like someone stabbed me through the heart with a knife.  I cry every day over this.  He says I need to accept it because he needs it to survive that he will end up offing himself because he can't get over the gf without someone else to take her place.  He says it's nothing different that when I talk to this other girl that lives 3000 miles away.  He introduced me to her and I only started talking to her because I found out he was talking to her.  We ended up hitting it off and we talk alot, mostly about girl stuff, we vent to one another etc.  I care for her, she cares for me, but as far as I was concerned she was a friend of me and my pwBPD.  He tells me he cares for this girl he is having the emotional affair with.  I asked him if he loved her and he said "In a way, not like you."  I am torn.  My therapist gave me her cell number so I can text her if I need anything and she said she was worried about me.  He insists he needs this and it's not fair to him that I am getting so upset over it because I am making him feel bad.  I told him I am not making him feel bad, the fact that he is hurting me is making him feel bad.  I did get on snapchat and introduce myself to her which he facilitated but it was clear that she wanted nothing to do with knowing me and then my pwBPD got mad at me because I made her sad.  Well, she should be sad.  What she is participating in is hurting me immensely... .and not only that but if her husband found out it could end her marriage and they have two small children.   PwBPD insists that one day it will be just the two of us but he needs more time to fully trust me to be there for him reliably without choosing my son over him.  And to make matters even worse, my son is dropping out of college but has been told he has to work and live with his dad, he cannot live at our house.  Mostly because of the affect it has on our marriage but also because he treats me like ___ and is very disrespectful and cannot manage to take care of himself (hygeine) and do his chores without being told.  I am not innocent in how my marriage has turned out, but I am not the only one to blame.  I do not accept this emotional affair but anytime I mention it he says he will get rid of her and hope he doesn't off himself.  My problem is, when he does get rid of her down the line when he trusts that I will be there for him... .will he choose me to get over her?  Will he need someone else?  He was dishonest with me over some things and admitted he should have never told me about her, so how am I ever to trust him again?  How do I enjoy my marriage without constantly worrying that he has something going on.  I am at my wits end.  He says it will take time to fully trust me again to be his rock, but I don't know how long I can hang in like this, constantly depressed, crying, etc.  Do any of you have any similar experiences you can share?  What did you do, how is your marriage now, etc?

Thank you for any advice or words of encouragement.

[notjustus2]

When I said it took a long ass time for me to realize he was manipulating me, I was referring to my son knowing exactly what to say to induce a state of fear and panic in me that would allow him to get whatever he wanted.

And I didn't mean to use a bad word, didn't even realize I had.  It was in the sentence where I am saying my son can't live with us because he treats me like CRAP... .I should have written crap... .oopsy.

[Cat Familiar]

You’ve got a lot of issues that you’re dealing with. Even one of them would be challenging for anyone.

Perhaps you can tell us which one is most troublesome to you at the moment.

With regards to the extramarital partner and your husband’s need to “get over her” by emotionally getting involved with another person, I’d have a hard time with that if I were in your shoes.

I was previously married to a man who had many affairs and it was really devastating to me.

I hear that some people are able to embrace a polyamorous lifestyle, but that’s not an option for me and nearly everyone I know who has tried that has really damaged their relationship in the process, but I suppose there are exceptions. And if there are people who can do this successfully, I would imagine they are emotionally healthy individuals, not people with BPD.

[Notwendy]

Although a polyamorous relationship may not have the traditional boundaries of monogamy- there still are boundaries. Examples could be like the one you have- no relationships that don't include the two of you. Pw BPD have difficulty with boundaries in general, so a polyamorous relationship doesn't solve this primary issue. They may still have difficulties with the boundaries in either monogamy or polyamory.

Whether someone wants monogamy or polyamory, it still comes down to your boundaries. Your H wants his extra relationship and you feel hurt by this. This is the source of your conflict at the moment.

I agree with Cat that to have a successful open relationship- if that is what someone chooses, then it would take more of the relationship skills than someone with BPD has- more communication, an ability to decide on what boundaries should be there and the ability to manage strong emotions like jealousy. I also think both people need to be in agreement with the boundaries and feel comfortable with them.

I also think it is important to know what we want. I know I could not manage an open relationship and I would be unhappy in one. Perhaps a first step is for you to consider your needs and what is acceptable to you. You can't control your H's choices- but first think about where you stand on them.

[notjustus2]

Thank you both.  Yes, I feel like his emotional connection to this other woman is my biggest problem right now and I don't feel like it is helping us move forward in counseling at all.  We see the same therapist but at separate times.  I told him I felt like the relationship with our girlfriend was a failed experiment as there were many times during it that I had intense feelings of jealousy and anger.  I don't think poly is for me, and I know poly with another male for me wouldn't be for my husband.  Oy.

[Cat Familiar]

I can't say this with surety, but looking back on it, it seems that my ex's extramarital relationships with women were all about having a "fantasy woman". Since he didn't live with them on a daily basis, he could project all sorts of positives upon them, like they were the women of his dreams. He told me waaaaay too much, so I have some basis for saying this.

I think it's the BPD tendency to want to continue with the "honeymoon phase" which typically doesn't last all that long when people live together.

The toxic part for me was to be compared unfavorably to his fantasy woman du jour.

So, what is your next step in this relationship?

[formflier]

Can you clarify what types of therapy are going on in your relationship?  Is there marriage or relationship counseling?

Is there "individual" counseling for anyone?

I'm not asking because I suspect anything is "wrong" with anyone.  What I see from reading this post is lots of "signals" and things being communicated that could appear contradictory.

I also see lots of people claiming that others "make them" or "make other" people feel or not feel a certain way.  I see people saying that other people "don't fee" the way those other people claim they do.

I see lots of people that could use time to reflect on their own feelings and once they have sorted out their own feelings, communicate those in a healthy way to other people.

One of the things to get sorted out is poly versus  monogamy.  Either way is OK, although if disrespect is present (which it appears to be) a poly relationship is going to be much much more complicated than a monogamous r/s.

Thoughts?

FF

[notjustus2]

I can't say this with surety, but looking back on it, it seems that my ex's extramarital relationships with women were all about having a "fantasy woman". Since he didn't live with them on a daily basis, he could project all sorts of positives upon them, like they were the women of his dreams. He told me waaaaay too much, so I have some basis for saying this.

I think it's the BPD tendency to want to continue with the "honeymoon phase" which typically doesn't last all that long when people live together.

The toxic part for me was to be compared unfavorably to his fantasy woman du jour.

So, what is your next step in this relationship?

I don't know what the next step is really.  Right now I am tolerating it because he says he will spiral out of control and go into a bad depression and lose his job and possibly kill himself.  I am thinking I am going to set a personal deadline for me, say 6 months, if we aren't measurably better with him no longer carrying on this EA then I am going to start making some decisions... .because this is affecting me greatly.  I cried in the shower last night for 20 minutes.  I didn't need a shower but I was feeling hurt and didn't want to argue with him over it so I escaped to the shower.  This was after sitting across from him at the table for over an hour, us both doing our own things but him constantly texting her back and forth. I just really don't know what to do. 

[Cat Familiar]

I'm so sorry.   

It truly sucks to be an observer as one's spouse is carrying on an affair with an outside person. I remember how miserable I felt in those circumstances.

And like you, my ex-husband held me hostage with his suicide threats.

So you are waiting for him to get to a point where he won't "spiral out of control, go into a bad depression and possibly kill himself."

This sounds like you are taking responsibility for his emotional choices, which I understand, considering that the end result could be dire. But how long will you wait for a point of stability? And what if it's just another crisis du jour?

Yes, this is really wearing upon you. It's not your responsibility to protect him from himself. Although I can remember how that feels, it was the trap that kept me in that marriage for much longer than I wanted, now looking back upon it. I took little time to reflect upon what I wanted, because I was always responding to the current crisis that he created, whether financial, extramarital, or abusive. 

Please take the time to really think about what you want your life to be like a few years down the road.   

[notjustus2]

Can you clarify what types of therapy are going on in your relationship?  Is there marriage or relationship counseling?
We are both seeing the same counselor, just at different times.  We have tried marriage counseling before with no luck.  Not that luck has anything to do with it.   He is supposed to be going to get help with his BPD and learn some ways to cope, etc.  I am going to learn how to better communicate with him, learn how to create boundaries, validating responses, etc.

Is there "individual" counseling for anyone? Yes, both.

I'm not asking because I suspect anything is "wrong" with anyone.  What I see from reading this post is lots of "signals" and things being communicated that could appear contradictory.

I also see lots of people claiming that others "make them" or "make other" people feel or not feel a certain way.  I see people saying that other people "don't fee" the way those other people claim they do.

I see lots of people that could use time to reflect on their own feelings and once they have sorted out their own feelings, communicate those in a healthy way to other people.

One of the things to get sorted out is poly versus  monogamy.  Either way is OK, although if disrespect is present (which it appears to be) a poly relationship is going to be much much more complicated than a monogamous r/s.
He keeps mentioning bringing in another girlfriend for us, one that isn't a dirtbag, one that will be better to us... .but I don't want that and I have relayed that to him several times and he keeps bringing it up.  I told him once we are healthier as a couple it could be considered a possibility but right now I am not ready to share him like that again. I can't even handle the emotional affair, how am I supposed to share him physically with someone again.  I also told him that there were plenty of times I sat at my desk at work in pieces knowing he was home alone with our GF, I experienced a ton of jealousy... .that's why when we finally broke up with her I was so relieved to have him to myself again only to find out that I don't.  As far as I am concerned an emotional affair is a betrayal as much as if not more than a physical affair.  We said in the beginning of this poly adventure that everything would be as THREE of us, never either of us with our own thing.  He says he feels bad for hurting me, like it makes him sick to his stomach that I am so hurt, yet he doesn't stop.  

Thoughts?  My thoughts are all over the place.  I am a hot mess.

FF

[notjustus2]

I'm so sorry.   

It truly sucks to be an observer as one's spouse is carrying on an affair with an outside person. I remember how miserable I felt in those circumstances.

And like you, my ex-husband held me hostage with his suicide threats.

So you are waiting for him to get to a point where he won't "spiral out of control, go into a bad depression and possibly kill himself."

This sounds like you are taking responsibility for his emotional choices, which I understand, considering that the end result could be dire. But how long will you wait for a point of stability? And what if it's just another crisis du jour?

Yes, this is really wearing upon you. It's not your responsibility to protect him from himself. Although I can remember how that feels, it was the trap that kept me in that marriage for much longer than I wanted, now looking back upon it. I took little time to reflect upon what I wanted, because I was always responding to the current crisis that he created, whether financial, extramarital, or abusive. 

Please take the time to really think about what you want your life to be like a few years down the road.   

Thank you.  My therapist always says, "What about what you want/need?"... .What I need is for him to own up to his part in where we are now.  He has always said that everything that is wrong in our marriage is the fault of myself and my son.  How is that supposed to make me feel like working on things when I know he is expecting that I will be the only one working on it?  I am being broken.  He keeps begging me not to give up on him, but how much does he think I can take?

[formflier]

My therapist always says, "What about what you want/need?"... .What I need is for him to own up to his part in where we are now.  He has always said that everything that is wrong in our marriage is the fault of myself and my son.  

What is your answer to your therapist's question?  It is a good question, one that you should take lots of time to reflect on.

How does your life change if he "owns up" to what he did?  What does "owning up" to it look like?

For instance... ."I own up to it... I did it... .now forgive me and let's move along"  Would that get it done?

When he says "everything" is your fault... .what is your response?  Can you give some context to those conversations?  How does your therapist advise you to handle those conversations?

Being a "hot mess" sucks... .most of us (perhaps all) on these boards have been there.  There are pathways to a "cooler place"... .Determination is required on YOUR part to walk that pathway.  Your hubby may or may not come along on your walk, yet your relationship will likely be much calmer. 



FF

[notjustus2]

What is your answer to your therapist's question?  It is a good question, one that you should take lots of time to reflect on.

How does your life change if he "owns up" to what he did?  What does "owning up" to it look like?

For instance... ."I own up to it... I did it... .now forgive me and let's move along"  Would that get it done?

When he says "everything" is your fault... .what is your response?  Can you give some context to those conversations?  How does your therapist advise you to handle those conversations?

Being a "hot mess" sucks... .most of us (perhaps all) on these boards have been there.  There are pathways to a "cooler place"... .Determination is required on YOUR part to walk that pathway.  Your hubby may or may not come along on your walk, yet your relationship will likely be much calmer. 



FF

Wow. I wrote this really long involved reply to you and somehow lost it.  I give.