Dealing with a visit from my grown daughter with BPD

[cdmom]

I have a 38-year-old gay daughter with BPD. She has lived outside the country since she was 23. She is a single, very intelligent but disorganized, high-tech businesswoman with a chip on her shoulder a mile wide. She is a radical activist. She tells me and my husband that we're pathetic, have led useless lives, and that our material success and accomplishments mean nothing. She claims that we are the reason that she is the way she is, that we never supported her in any way, and that we are the ones who need counseling rather than she. She hates the US and everything it stands for, especially with Trump in office. She has difficulties staying in relationships, and tends to choose other women with a lot of emotional baggage, perhaps because women with a stable personality steer clear. She has occasionally sought professional help (mostly after another woman dumped her), but usually after a session or two says that it's BS. She talks to us regularly on Skype, but more than half the time she picks arguments and hangs up on us. My husband refuses to speak to her on Skype any more. He walks out of the room. I grit my teeth and continue on because she is my daughter and I love her no matter what.

She has a bad temper, and has even become so enraged at us that she bares her teeth at us like a ferocious dog. Yet with other people she can be sweet and polite. When she is home visiting, she often holes herself up in the guest room with the door shut, as if she is fifteen years old. And in many ways, she does have the emotional maturity of a fifteen-year-old.

She is coming to visit us this month, and to be truthful, I am not looking forward to two weeks of constant confrontation and insults. She is attending a major athletic event, and I figure that this is the real reason she is coming to the US (which she claims is unsafe for gays and other minorities, and that she risks her life coming here)... .not to see us specifically, but for the free two-week room and board and shopping trips on our dime.

I have no idea how I will survive this two week ordeal with my sanity intact. How should I deflect her every time she verbally attacks or hurls accusations? What should I do when she is obnoxious and uncooperative? Please HELP!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[RunningWithScissors]

CDmom -

I'm glad you posted here - this community is full of awesome, supportive people.

I hope to post more, but may I ask how the arrangement of your daughter staying with you came to be?  Did you offer, or did she just assume she could stay with you?  It sounds like the relationship is challenging particularly when everyone is under the same roof for extended periods of time.  Can your daughter find other places to stay? 

I'm guessing that your reaction to these queries may be 'Oh - but I have to... .'.  Please, please know that you are in charge of your home, who gets to visit, who gets to stay overnight and how long these visits last.  It's OK to say 'I'm sorry, but we aren't prepared to have overnight guests.  We're looking forward to your visit - let's schedule when we can visit/go for dinner/etc.'.  If this conversation seems challenging, have a look at the resources on this website about 'FOG' (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) which keep many of us parents locked in a no-win cycle of conflict and establishing boundaries.  From your description, it seems that your daughter doesn't treat you with respect, so I would gently inquire if having a relationship with her at any cost is worthwhile.  Your feelings, peace of mind, and wellbeing should come first.

Please know that BPD Family is here to listen and support you.
RWS

[cdmom]

My daughter invited herself. As I already said, she really came for an athletic event and we're her room and board. As I also already said, she flew in from another country overseas. And we're supposed to schedule to meet for dinner some time? That makes no sense. You say "I would gently inquire if having a relationship with her at any cost is worthwhile.  Your feelings, peace of mind, and wellbeing should come first." Regretfully, she's our only child. How could I have peace of mind by having no contact with my only child, not knowing if she's in trouble, or even alive or dead? The way I see it, having her stay here is better than her sleeping on a park bench or cheap hostel (which she would surely do). So yes, I look at this as an obligation, as taking a dose of bitter medicine to keep her from self-destructing. The same sort of obligation you'd have to an ailing, elderly parent who you feel was never that kind or caring, but hey - they're your parent and you still love them. Guilt and fear?  Not really. They don't come into the equation at all.

She's here now, and to say that it's been hell is an understatement. In a fit of anger, she backed my husband's car out of the garage (after swiping his keys), and put a scratch on both cars in the process. When angry, she becomes completely irrational. There's no talking reason with her. After all, according to her, everything is our fault.

I am very disappointed to receive only one (rather generic) response to my initial inquiry on this forum. Generalized platitudes are not going to help here. I need to know how to refuse any of her frequent demands and handle the resulting melt-down. Guess we have to go this alone. 

[Wanttounderstand]

CD Mom - RWS took the time to answer your post and made some points about setting boundaries. I have a 25 year old gay daughter that has chosen to leave our family because in her mind she is happier when she doesn't have to interact with us at all. She has been gone six months now and I don't know where she is or what she is doing. She just missed her brother's wedding.

It's an out of control feeling. When she left we withdrew financial support thinking maybe setting boundaries we never thought we could would somehow make a difference. We have tried everything else.

 I'm going to go read the "FOG" resource about fear, obligation and guilt. I'm pretty sure I've been operating out of all three. This is not what any of us envisioned our relationships would turn out like And we have no control over making things better. RWS may just be further along in her coping mechanisms so she is able to live with this horrible situation we are in. For me, hearing how hard this is for other moms does help because so much of what has happened is inexplicable.

I'm sorry you are having a rough time with your daughter. I know how hard it is to be treated terribly yet put up with it. I was always afraid to give consequences for bad behavior because I couldn't tell what was coming from her disorder and if I would make things worse.

Sorry I don't have a great answer for you,  but I do know exactly how it feels to be the recipient of a BPD rage and hate the way it makes you feel.

Let's just keep talking to others in this forum and reading articles and try and live our lives in spite of the situation we are in. And pray - When I feel discouraged and scared all I can do is pray to the God who loves her and hand it all over to Him.

[No-One]

My daughter invited herself. As I already said, she really came for an athletic event and we're her room and board. As I also already said, she flew in from another country overseas.

I'm so sorry about your situations with your daughter.  It has to be very devastating for you.  The harsh reality is that you can't change your daughter, only she can decide to change.  The same drama, the same "hell of a visit" will repeat until you set your own boundaries and enforce them. 

RunningWithScissors brought up some good ideas. Having a BPD family member stay at a hotel, is an option that other have used successfully. Some may offer financial assistance for that.  Meetings in public places (restaurant for a meal, etc.) can set the stage for better behavior, as people with BPD are less apt to act out in public places. Unfortunately, it is common for BPD's to identify certain people as scapegoats.  It's hard to understand how they can seem so pleasant around others, but they do like to "unload their emotions" where they feel comfortable. I can understand why your husband has refused to join further Skype sessions - he set a boundary for himself and his own sanity.

Setting boundaries is important in any relationship, but becomes essential in relationships with people with BPD.  Boundaries are for your benefit and are for you to enforce.  Have you checked out the "Tools" and "Lessons" links in the right-hand margin?  There is some good information there on strategies and communication tools to use.  Have you tried any of the strategies in the "Tools" and "Lessons"?

Regretfully, she's our only child. How could I have peace of mind by having no contact with my only child, not knowing if she's in trouble, or even alive or dead? The way I see it, having her stay here is better than her sleeping on a park bench or cheap hostel (which she would surely do). So yes, I look at this as an obligation, as taking a dose of bitter medicine to keep her from self-destructing

.
If she can afford travel expenses just to travel back to the US to see a sporting event, she should be able to afford safe lodging that she can afford (even if she might make poor decisions on lodging choices).  You have no control over any of her bad choices, which will continue when she returns to the Country she is living in. 

Have you ever had any therapy to discuss your situation with your daughter?  Fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) is something you may want to explore with a therapist.  Most nons reach a point where they have to find some peace of mind and set boundaries.  No one has an obligation to stay in an abusive situation.

[livednlearned]

Hi cdmom,

I know so well how difficult two short weeks can be when you have a loved one stay with you  

Even without BPD in the mix, I think it's challenging. With my mom, I find myself easily triggered and surprised by how my own emotions regress, and neither of us are BPD.

Telling your child to stay elsewhere is not a possibility, and fortunately, there are other skills to help you stay grounded. I understand the position you're in  

People always say that BPD is like being on an emotional roller coaster and the hardest thing in the world is to stay grounded and not get on that coaster. When you're a parent, that can be especially hard.

In the NEA-BPD Family Connections classes I attended, the instructor said he didn't like the word enable because for their family, if they did not enable (so to speak), their daughter would be dead. Much discussion followed in the group about other skills, including setting boundaries, in safe and loving ways.

What is the behavior you would like most to focus on?

Making tiny little changes patience and practice, and the skills are not intuitive.

Rome was not built in a day

Maybe the most you can hope for is that you develop one simple boundary during your visit. Or perhaps you try a new communication skill to see if she responds.

A new boundary might be that you walk into another room if she becomes abusive. Ideally, you discuss this boundary when she is more or less emotionally regulated. "I want to hear how you feel, and I know you are having a tough time. When you call me names or shout at me, I have a hard time listening because my flight mode is activated. Going forward, when this happens, I will leave the room, and we can try again when things feel less intense."

Usually, people with BPD need to test the boundary to see if it's sticky. So sometimes, introducing a new boundary increases bad behavior in the short term.

A new communication skill might be that you avoid JADE (justify, argue, deny, explain). These are natural responses to falsehoods, and they rarely if ever make things better. If your D brings up a false allegation, perhaps your new response is to simply let her know that you are listening.

You know what she says is not true.

Please be gentle with yourself during your visit and take care of yourself.

We cannot be emotional leaders in these challenging relationships if our cup is not at least half full. That might mean that you do things that fill your cup. For me, I took on that challenge like I was recovering from a major injury   I visualized my day starting with a full cup, and tried to make small choices throughout the remainder of the day so that I could stay grounded and keep the cup from draining.

In practice, this meant not engaging D20 in the morning before she went to work because she's not a morning person, very disorganized, always a crisis, and more prone to perceive slights when she is stressed (usually about being late and disorganized).

I started mindfulness-based stress reduction classes and practices so I knew what the actual feeling was that I was going for, and to keep a check on my own emotions when I was in conversation with D20.

Little things like that.

I know it doesn't seem like a lot. Tiny little changes are sometimes the most we can bargain for.
LnL

[cdmom]

CD Mom - RWS took the time to answer your post and made some points about setting boundaries. I have a 25 year old gay daughter that has chosen to leave our family because in her mind she is happier when she doesn't have to interact with us at all. She has been gone six months now and I don't know where she is or what she is doing. She just missed her brother's wedding.

It's an out of control feeling. When she left we withdrew financial support thinking maybe setting boundaries we never thought we could would somehow make a difference. We have tried everything else.

 I'm going to go read the "FOG" resource about fear, obligation and guilt. I'm pretty sure I've been operating out of all three. This is not what any of us envisioned our relationships would turn out like And we have no control over making things better. RWS may just be further along in her coping mechanisms so she is able to live with this horrible situation we are in. For me, hearing how hard this is for other moms does help because so much of what has happened is inexplicable.

I'm sorry you are having a rough time with your daughter. I know how hard it is to be treated terribly yet put up with it. I was always afraid to give consequences for bad behavior because I couldn't tell what was coming from her disorder and if I would make things worse.

Sorry I don't have a great answer for you,  but I do know exactly how it feels to be the recipient of a BPD rage and hate the way it makes you feel.

Let's just keep talking to others in this forum and reading articles and try and live our lives in spite of the situation we are in. And pray - When I feel discouraged and scared all I can do is pray to the God who loves her and hand it all over to Him.

I appreciate your response.

A problem here is that we have other family in the area. With them, our daughter acts polite and thoughtful. Also, she's is a very accomplished woman in many ways, and seems to others who don't know her well as an amazing person. How could we complain about her? She, however, has complained about us to them. And my sister-in-law, in particular, loves schadenfreude and is eager to gossip. If we refused to house her when she comes to visit, I'm sure my SIL would invite her to stay there, and then portray us to the rest of the family as horrible parents for spurning our own daughter. The rest of the family has no clue about BPD, especially since she behaves like another person in their presence. But she DOES have problems in romantic relationships. It doesn't take long for a partner to see the ugly and/or intense side of her.

Her rages seem worse and worse the older she gets. After the car incident yesterday, I felt depressed for the whole day. She is still at the athletic event, but will return tonight. It will begin all over again. And yes, she is out of control. She knows she has what she thinks of as a slight problem, but she justifies it as being a result of her upbringing, and thinks we need therapy more than she does. She feels she is perfectly justified to insult, verbally abuse, and be inconsiderate to us.

As for the "FOG" stuff, I've never been into generic self-help literature. Everybody and every experience is different. Setting any kind of boundary only makes the situation much worse here. Talking "tough love" or just staying silent don't help either.

At least your daughter is not your only child. If I had other normal children, this situation wouldn't bother me as much, I think.

[cdmom]

Hi cdmom,

I know so well how difficult two short weeks can be when you have a loved one stay with you  

Even without BPD in the mix, I think it's challenging. With my mom, I find myself easily triggered and surprised by how my own emotions regress, and neither of us are BPD.

Telling your child to stay elsewhere is not a possibility, and fortunately, there are other skills to help you stay grounded. I understand the position you're in  

People always say that BPD is like being on an emotional roller coaster and the hardest thing in the world is to stay grounded and not get on that coaster. When you're a parent, that can be especially hard.

In the NEA-BPD Family Connections classes I attended, the instructor said he didn't like the word enable because for their family, if they did not enable (so to speak), their daughter would be dead. Much discussion followed in the group about other skills, including setting boundaries, in safe and loving ways.

What is the behavior you would like most to focus on?

Making tiny little changes patience and practice, and the skills are not intuitive.

Rome was not built in a day

Maybe the most you can hope for is that you develop one simple boundary during your visit. Or perhaps you try a new communication skill to see if she responds.

A new boundary might be that you walk into another room if she becomes abusive. Ideally, you discuss this boundary when she is more or less emotionally regulated. "I want to hear how you feel, and I know you are having a tough time. When you call me names or shout at me, I have a hard time listening because my flight mode is activated. Going forward, when this happens, I will leave the room, and we can try again when things feel less intense."

Usually, people with BPD need to test the boundary to see if it's sticky. So sometimes, introducing a new boundary increases bad behavior in the short term.

A new communication skill might be that you avoid JADE (justify, argue, deny, explain). These are natural responses to falsehoods, and they rarely if ever make things better. If your D brings up a false allegation, perhaps your new response is to simply let her know that you are listening.

You know what she says is not true.

Please be gentle with yourself during your visit and take care of yourself.

We cannot be emotional leaders in these challenging relationships if our cup is not at least half full. That might mean that you do things that fill your cup. For me, I took on that challenge like I was recovering from a major injury   I visualized my day starting with a full cup, and tried to make small choices throughout the remainder of the day so that I could stay grounded and keep the cup from draining.

In practice, this meant not engaging D20 in the morning before she went to work because she's not a morning person, very disorganized, always a crisis, and more prone to perceive slights when she is stressed (usually about being late and disorganized).

I started mindfulness-based stress reduction classes and practices so I knew what the actual feeling was that I was going for, and to keep a check on my own emotions when I was in conversation with D20.

Little things like that.

I know it doesn't seem like a lot. Tiny little changes are sometimes the most we can bargain for.
LnL

The only thing that works for me in the way of stress reduction is getting away from her. Not in another room, but in another location. I cannot simply agree with her or remain silent. It makes her angrier. I cannot try to discuss things with her. It makes her angrier. I cannot ignore her. It makes her angrier. NOTHING seems to help. Before the car incident, I had told her she could use the car to visit someone a few hours away and stay overnight. Now, though, I think I should retract that offer. But my husband says to let her borrow it anyway. After all, it gets her out of our hair for a couple days. But from my point of view, it sends a message that swiping the car keys in a fit of rage and putting scratches on both cars when backing it out of the garage was forgiven... .that it was OK. What do you think?

What do I want to focus on?  Hard to name one thing, since she is one rude, insulting, uncooperative package. Every bad behavior is related to every other one. I feel helpless.

[cdmom]

I'm so sorry about your situations with your daughter.  It has to be very devastating for you.  The harsh reality is that you can't change your daughter, only she can decide to change.  The same drama, the same "hell of a visit" will repeat until you set your own boundaries and enforce them. 

Setting boundaries is important in any relationship, but becomes essential in relationships with people with BPD.  Boundaries are for your benefit and are for you to enforce.  Have you checked out the "Tools" and "Lessons" links in the right-hand margin?  There is some good information there on strategies and communication tools to use.  Have you tried any of the strategies in the "Tools" and "Lessons"?
.
If she can afford travel expenses just to travel back to the US to see a sporting event, she should be able to afford safe lodging that she can afford (even if she might make poor decisions on lodging choices).  You have no control over any of her bad choices, which will continue when she returns to the Country she is living in. 

Have you ever had any therapy to discuss your situation with your daughter?  Fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) is something you may want to explore with a therapist.  Most nons reach a point where they have to find some peace of mind and set boundaries.  No one has an obligation to stay in an abusive situation.

See my above response to wanttounderstand about her housing situation. As for therapy, I talked with a therapist for a few months about my general anxieties and my daughter in particular. When I described her mood swings, anger, outbursts, and so on, the therapist discussed BPD and bipolar disorder as the most likely causes. The most telling thing she said was this: "You can only hope she has bipolar disorder. That can be treated with drugs. BPD is very difficult to treat. But, of course, since she's a grown woman, she needs to take the steps herself to get help. You can do nothing for her."

As for this "setting boundaries" discussion all over the forum, to me it's just a buzzword. The only boundary that works is a physical one. Anything else is useless in our situation. So what it comes down to, then, is basically turning our backs on our only child. Quite an option, no?  :-(

[Feeling Better]

Hi cdmom

I hope you don't mind me answering, as it was to livednlearned that you asked the question as to what you should do regarding the car incident and allowing your daughter to have use of the car.

You say that your husband thinks she should have the car anyway but you feel as though you ought to retract the offer of the car. I personally don't think retracting your offer would be the best route to go down. I'm wondering whether you might actually be able to turn this incident to your advantage.
When your daughter is feeling calm, maybe you could speak to her about the car, perhaps let her know that you understand how she was feeling prior to her swiping the car keys. (I think you need to start the conversation with something like that, something positive.) Let her know that you were thinking of retracting your offer but on reflection you would be prepared to let her still have the car on condition that she treats you with respect whilst she is staying in your home. I know it's easier said than done, but it is just a suggestion

[livednlearned]

The only thing that works for me in the way of stress reduction is getting away from her. Not in another room, but in another location. I cannot simply agree with her or remain silent.

That is where you are, and it's ok. Her treatment of you is abuse, and your instincts are protective. That's normal!

The next step, when you're ready, and it's a doozy -- is to decide if you want to make changes over the things you have control over. This can be hard with a BPD sufferer who has created a chronic environment of blame and your defenses are triggered.

You have control over leaving the room and going to another location. There may come a time when you can be in the room with her for five minutes without feeling triggered. Then ten. Maybe you decide that you can only be with her when there is someone from outside the family.

You have choices -- and they aren't going to cure her BPD.

from my point of view, it sends a message that swiping the car keys in a fit of rage and putting scratches on both cars when backing it out of the garage was forgiven... .that it was OK. What do you think?

I think it is hard to make lasting changes when we feel overwhelmed, or overburdened, or triggered.

Our BPD loved ones have the ability to create in us the same intense feelings they feel in themselves.

I don't know if lasting change is possible without a conscious choice to not be infected by those feelings and manage our own emotions in response.

What do I want to focus on?  Hard to name one thing, since she is one rude, insulting, uncooperative package. Every bad behavior is related to every other one. I feel helpless.

Then self-care is probably all you can manage for now. It's the most important piece. Very little (if anything) will work if you don't have compassion for yourself.

The first summer SD20 lived with us was overwhelming and I spent a lot of time feeling grief and anger and deep resentment toward her. The second summer, I was prepared and things went more smoothly, altho not perfect. I created physical and psychological boundaries that were for me. Some worked better than others.

Think of boundaries like redirecting water so your garden isn't flooded.

Some take time to build. Some may not stand up to powerful currents, so you have to wait until things subside and start building more effective ones.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[cdmom]

Hi cdmom

I hope you don't mind me answering, as it was to livednlearned that you asked the question as to what you should do regarding the car incident and allowing your daughter to have use of the car.

I have no problem with that. In fact, being a forum, I appreciate all input.

You say that your husband thinks she should have the car anyway but you feel as though you ought to retract the offer of the car. I personally don't think retracting your offer would be the best route to go down. I'm wondering whether you might actually be able to turn this incident to your advantage.
When your daughter is feeling calm, maybe you could speak to her about the car, perhaps let her know that you understand how she was feeling prior to her swiping the car keys. (I think you need to start the conversation with something like that, something positive.) Let her know that you were thinking of retracting your offer but on reflection you would be prepared to let her still have the car on condition that she treats you with respect whilst she is staying in your home. I know it's easier said than done, but it is just a suggestion

I let her take the car. But only because it meant a couple days of peace and quiet for me. This was "setting a boundary" for me (I refuse to relocate for her. She must relocate for me). I made her promise to call when she got there, and she did so.

As for your suggestion, it's not just easier said than done. Rather it's impossible. I can never speak to her about her behaviors, in any way, in any tone of voice, using any approach. The only result of that is another flare-up, where she tells us to shut up and defends her actions by saying it was ultimately our fault. If nothing else, she is very predictable.

[cdmom]

The next step, when you're ready, and it's a doozy -- is to decide if you want to make changes over the things you have control over. This can be hard with a BPD sufferer who has created a chronic environment of blame and your defenses are triggered.

You have control over leaving the room and going to another location. There may come a time when you can be in the room with her for five minutes without feeling triggered. Then ten. Maybe you decide that you can only be with her when there is someone from outside the family.

Actually, I was referring to HER being somewhere else. I refuse to be chased from a room by her.

Then self-care is probably all you can manage for now. It's the most important piece. Very little (if anything) will work if you don't have compassion for yourself.

By this point, I am already sick and tired of her behavior and know I can never change it. She will never outgrow it. It just gets worse and worse, at least with us. So I already have compassion for myself in the sense that it is what it is and I will not feel guilt over it. My anger, on the other hand, I allow to happen. I would have to be a zombie not to get angry with her. And, regretfully, I am hoping she gets payback from others. I hope her current girlfriend soon realizes what she's up against and dumps her. Sounds awful, I know... .but enough of those experiences by someone other than her parents not tolerating her behavior may be the only way she gets a true picture of what she's really like. But even then, she would ultimate make it our fault somehow... .