UBPDmom seeking child support for SS25

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

DH’s ex sought sole Guardianship of SS23 who has special needs resulting in huge legal bills and a hearing. In the end, DH was granted sole Guardianship. One of many things that came out in the hearing was that UBPD was taking money from SS23 without DH’s knowledge when they were joint guardians. The judge was not impressed.

UBPD has now switched her efforts to SS25. He is an addict who has recently been diagnosed with BPD. He is enabled by his Mom - they have a codependent relationship - and she tends to rescue him and pay off his drug debts. SS25’s latest debt is a large student loan.

UBPD is demanding DH pay ‘child support’. She wants him to go to a mediator to ‘settle the issue’ and says he needs to come to a meeting and bring his tax returns (and SS23’s ‘just in case’!) Last year she asked for a cheque for 25k for his portion of what she has paid out the last few years saying DH was obligated based on their divorce agreement. DH sent a reply saying SS25 is no longer a ‘child of the marriage’ based on his L’s advice.

UBPD”s new tactic is claiming that as a result of SS25’s recent BPD diagnosis, he can’t work. DH’s L sees no grounds for DH to have to pay for SS25’s expenses - he is an adult, is estranged from DH, has held jobs before, does not participate in treatment programs and is clearly not in recovery.

We’re fairly confident a judge wouldn’t award her a bunch of money or force DH to either pay her child support or provide SS25 with a monthly cheque. But of course, that may not dissuade her.

Any ideas if she could take DH to court? We aren’t sure if this is all just her attempt to bully DH into paying. Maybe a L has told her she doesn’t have a chance in court. DH hasn’t involved his L much but so far the L doesn’t seem to rule out UBPD advancing this further than just threatening emails. It is horrible thinking we may be in another legal battle with her.

Thoughts?

[NorthernGirl]

DH’s ex sought sole Guardianship of SS23 who has special needs resulting in huge legal bills and a hearing. In the end, DH was granted sole Guardianship. One of many things that came out in the hearing was that UBPD was taking money from SS23 without DH’s knowledge when they were joint guardians. The judge was not impressed.

UBPD has now switched her efforts to SS25. He is an addict who has recently been diagnosed with BPD. He is enabled by his Mom - they have a codependent relationship - and she tends to rescue him and pay off his drug debts. SS25’s latest debt is a large student loan.

UBPD is demanding DH pay ‘child support’. She wants him to go to a mediator to ‘settle the issue’ and says he needs to come to a meeting and bring his tax returns (and SS23’s ‘just in case’!) Last year she asked for a cheque for 25k for his portion of what she has paid out the last few years saying DH was obligated based on their divorce agreement. DH sent a reply saying SS25 is no longer a ‘child of the marriage’ based on his L’s advice.

UBPD”s new tactic is claiming that as a result of SS25’s recent BPD diagnosis, he can’t work. DH’s L sees no grounds for DH to have to pay for SS25’s expenses - he is an adult, is estranged from DH, has held jobs before, does not participate in treatment programs and is clearly not in recovery.

We’re fairly confident a judge wouldn’t award her a bunch of money or force DH to either pay her child support or provide SS25 with a monthly cheque. But of course, that may not dissuade her.

Any ideas if she could take DH to court? We aren’t sure if this is all just her attempt to bully DH into paying. Maybe a L has told her she doesn’t have a chance in court. DH hasn’t involved his L much but so far the L doesn’t seem to rule out UBPD advancing this further than just threatening emails. It is horrible thinking we may be in another legal battle with her.

Thoughts?

[livednlearned]

I'm so sorry you have to worry about this.

Do you ever feel PTSD type symptoms when it comes to the legal threats?

My experience in family law court taught me that people can use the legal system to harass you for anything, it seems. There was even a gatekeeping order against my ex to prevent him from filing frivolous motions, and it was pretty much useless.

If a disordered person wants their day in court, it seems like the judicial system is all too willing to engage them.

How far they get is another conversation. My ex never got far, and his constant attempts to litigate everything eventually lost him custody.

Meanwhile, I'm still paying off legal debt, 7 years after leaving him.

I guess what I'm thinking is that biomom can probably find a (bad) lawyer who will take her case, but it might end quickly.

If I remember correctly, you live in Canada, which may not be as litigious as the US, so perhaps that swings things in your favor.

[GaGrl]

My DH's ex (uNPD/BPD) could not understand the legal concept of dependent children. When DH divorced her, she was buying our his interest in v he house they still owned together, and she was going to move back in to it. Their daughter and granddaughter had been living with DH, and the ex thought they would continue to live there. So she wanted child support from TH for the 25-year-old daughter, who had a FT job, and the grandaughter, for whom child support was received.

Needless to say... .didn't happen.

[NorthernGirl]

Do you ever feel PTSD type symptoms when it comes to the legal threats?

I’d never thought of it like that, but it is a good point. We each have our own reactions to this stuff. DH shuts down, triggered by her aggression and successful pushing of buttons. I go into ‘research mode’ - pulling together dozens of emails, texts, etc. to ensure we have the facts when we talk to his lawyer. And I provide support to DH and insist on his self care, etc.

Just thinking about going through the madness again drains me - so, yes, there are probably PTSD symptoms coming out.

I am in Canada but UBPD has a brother who is a L. After SS23 spends time with his mom, a common phrase he uses for any little problem is ‘you should sue’.

When the judge decided UBPD should pay DH some costs after the hearing last year, DH’s L wrote in the agreement that the costs wouldn’t need to be paid until such time as UBPD wanted to take him to court again. Essentially she didn’t have to pay a dime. UBPD wrote a cheque that very day - making it clear she wasn’t done.

We think she has little chance of success, but we knew that last time as well. She has fired many L’s, including the most recent. She will try to find another. We can only hope the Ls will tell her that she has no chance. But if they are only in it for the money, they will take her as a client.

So now I will be checking the mailbox every day for legal papers to arrive.  

Thanks for your thoughts LnL and Gagrl   

[ForeverDad]

I too would classify ex's demands as entitled huffing and puffing.  Both those children are clearly adults.  Maybe two exceptions.  Are either of them legally disabled with standard causes?  You know, vegetative states or needing extended care not due to self harm, etc?  Or are they still in college and the divorce terms (or state laws) included support during college up until a certain age?  Otherwise don't fret.

And be careful not to make statements that could backfire and be used to make you liable for support in some weird way.

[NorthernGirl]

I too would classify ex's demands as entitled huffing and puffing.  Both those children are clearly adults.  Maybe two exceptions.  Or are they still in college and the divorce terms (or state laws) included support during college up until a certain age?  Otherwise don’t fret.

Unfortunately there is a clause in the divorce agreement that states “child support is payable unless each child past the age of 18 continues to be financially dependent on the parties and can’t become financially self-supporting because of physical or mental incapacity,” or is “attending secondary or post-secondary school full time for a first degree.”

DH can’t remember why this is in the agreement (lawyers say it is unusual) but we guess that his ex was thinking she wanted to keep SS23 with her, do nothing and have DH pay child support for years because of his delays. Instead SS23 lives with us, has a job and gets government assistance. In fact, she chose to take money from his bank account for ‘groceries’ when she and DH were joint guardians without permission, which clearly irritated the judge in the hearing for SS23’s Guardianship. When asked if DH should also be withdrawing similar funds, UBPD said no because DH had a job and she didn’t.

SS25 tried college a couple times but dropped out. He’s very intelligent but unable to remain sober and won’t engage in treatment for his addiction or mental illness.

DH’s L has said in the past that SS25 is no longer a child of the marriage and has long been estranged from DH so DH can’t be expected to pay his way.

UBPD’s angle is that his recent diagnosis makes it is clear that SS25 has had a mental illness for some time, because she has a T who will say this, so he needed help all along. And she believes her enabling (paying off drug debts, buying him new electronics and wardrobe) fall into child support, so she would like that paid retroactively as well. About $25,000 worth. And now because he doesn’t want to work, she should be given money so she can look after him.

We think there’s a good chance a judge would a) not view SS25 as unable to be self-supporting, b) not hold DH accountable for past payments made by his ex and c) not necessarily view UBPD as the best person to be given money to dole out to SS25 given her history. But to get to that, it may require going to court.

DH is talking with his L tomorrow to determine an approach should UBPD continue the push. Given that she had a slim chance at getting sole Guardianship of SS23 but still pursued it, we doubt she will back down unless she can’t get a L to agree to take her case.

[Panda39]

Unfortunately there is a clause in the divorce agreement that states “child support is payable unless each child past the age of 18 continues to be financially dependent on the parties and can’t become financially self-supporting because of physical or mental incapacity,” or is “attending secondary or post-secondary school full time for a first degree.”

So she gets child support on SS25 because he's an addict and isn't self supporting... .he becomes her meal ticket and then she has no incentive to try and get him help (not that it sounds like she has done anything thus far)... .Wow 

How is that in the best interest of SS25? 

Panda39

[NorthernGirl]

Update - chatted with DH’s L today. She thinks even if UBPD pushes this to the point of going to court, a judge is unlikely to rule in UBPD’s favour. She says there is no precedent that would convince the court that SS25 continues to be a child of the marriage (still requiring support from his parents). She also thinks a judge will quickly see how uBPD has enabled SS25.

We know UBPD likes a good battle even if L’s tell her she is unlikely to win. Sadly, as much as she acts as though she needs money (tried the poor single mom shtick last time), she actually has money, mostly from the divorce settlement. Which is why she hasn’t worked for years and yet can afford to keep hiring lawyers.

And so we will wait to see if court documents come our way. We may be in for more legal bills, but hopefully DH won’t have to pay UBPD any child support, and maybe another issue gets knocked off uBPD list: Fun ways to harass DH.