How do you know it’s done?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

We just passed our one year anniversary of a therapeutic separation (not living together, date nights once, sometimes twice a week). She’s been in a DBT  program for about six months now, doesn’t feel like she’s getting a lot out of it, and from my perspective, I’d tend to agree.

She still lashes out with an inappropriate rage at me, at least once, every time I see her. Sometimes more, alternating with sporadic realizations that she’s being irrational, then doing it again in the same sitting.

I love her, but even six months into DBT, there’s zero improvement. I could wait with the promise of improvement, but how long do you wait with no progress before giving up?

[DogMan75]

We just passed our one year anniversary of a therapeutic separation (not living together, date nights once, sometimes twice a week). She’s been in a DBT  program for about six months now, doesn’t feel like she’s getting a lot out of it, and from my perspective, I’d tend to agree.

She still lashes out with an inappropriate rage at me, at least once, every time I see her. Sometimes more, alternating with sporadic realizations that she’s being irrational, then doing it again in the same sitting.

I love her, but even six months into DBT, there’s zero improvement. I could wait with the promise of improvement, but how long do you wait with no progress before giving up?

[Cat Familiar]

Well, that is a really good question to ask--a question many of us wished we had asked years ago. Are you married?

[flourdust]

Is there any kind of family education component of the DBT program? Sometimes, these programs include an element for family members. At minimum, the program should be able to give you some basic information on the typical length of participation in the program. I think 9-18 months is a typical range, depending on success of implementation.

Has she shared any information from the program with you? Very likely, she has to complete worksheets describing her goals (short-term and long range) and track progress on a regular basis. Her idea of what she is trying to get out of the program and yours may be different.

[Lucky Jim]

I could wait with the promise of improvement, but how long do you wait with no progress before giving up?

Hey DogMan, Only you can figure out the answer to that question.  Most of us Nons wish we had left sooner, but that's easy to say in retrospect.

Presumably you still get something out of the r/s, because you see her one or two times a week.  What is it that keeps you hangin' on?

LuckyJim

[SamwizeGamgee]

Try, if you can, to look past whether she is improving.  I mean, it might be easy to set a limit such as; if she still is lashing out, acting out, and hurtful when we are together six months from now, then it's over.  But, a problem I sense from that is that once again, you're not making the decision, rather, you are letting an external factor determine your staying or going choice. 

What if she actually shows improvement, you stay? and you're still unhappy? then what?

It seems you would feel more empowered if you just owned up to the decision and decided (for example); if I still feel more hopeless than hopeful in six months, then it's over. 

I'm just pointing out the possible results of your thinking.  I'm stuck too deciding - and maybe I'm the worst one to give advice, but, I am doing it on my terms. 

[Steeplechase]

Ah the ultimate question! 

Man, I wish I had the answer.  I like what SamwizeGamgee said. 

I think you're in a better position than most of us to act on how you honestly feel about her.  I believe those with BPD deserve love as much as any of us.  My pwBPD and I love each other and she has made a lot of effort to manage her BPD but she's off the meds and tells me that she prefers big emotions rather than feeling flat.  What can I say to that?  While medicated we had maybe 1-2 meltdowns in the span of 5-6 months.  Now that she's off  and back to work it's 1-2 meltdowns a week, sometimes more.  I just had my birthday over the weekend and we had, without question, the worst meltdown of all time.  I went as far as drafting divorce papers this time!  It's day 6 of hostilities as I write this, and it feels like the end.  But, it's felt like that hundreds of times at this point.

If I were to go back in time to when we were first dating and I was absolutely obsessed with her regardless of the crazy emotional rollercoater -- I would tell myself to run, lose her number, and delete my dating profile.  Ghost her at all costs.

I hate that I feel this way, but I do. Life is pretty crappy these days and they have been for a long time.

Good luck!

[Red5]

@religispill wrote... .1-2 meltdowns a week, sometimes more.  I just had my birthday over the weekend and we had, without question, the worst meltdown of all time.  I went as far as drafting divorce papers this time!  It's day 6 of hostilities as I write this, and it feels like the end.  But, it's felt like that hundreds of times at this point.

If I were to go back in time to when we were first dating and I was absolutely obsessed with her regardless of the crazy emotional rollercoater -- I would tell myself to run, lose her number, and delete my dating profile.  Ghost her at all costs.

I hate that I feel this way, but I do. Life is pretty crappy these days and they have been for a long time.

@religispill... .Me2  ... .I can concur with everything you wrote... .and the holidaze approach, last year, Christmas was horrible... .and I am dreading it all... .again.

DogMan75... .I echo what others have said here on your post, only you, and you only can make the decision to scuttle or not... .at least your pwBPD is going to therapy, which means to me that she is aware, and has accepted that she is a pwBPD... .there you are lucky... .my u/BPD wife is in complete denial that anything is wrong, or has any issue, other than she tells me that she "has a temper"... .I have been with her for many years now, and married for over half that time, she is my second wife (marriage). I have been trying to use the "tools", such as SET, and at all cost trying to avoid "JADE"... .but I am a sucker, and when she comes at me (sustained), .I do get worn down, and as the "boundary" is then compromised, I try to defend myself, which never works anyways... .as she says to me, ."you have a temper too"... .I am tired, worn down, too have been through so many fights, and have gone to a solicitors office on two occasions now... .the ":)" word has lost all effect (desensitized), as it has been thrown out so many times now... .me too, if I could go back, I would take a pass on this one... .funny, she told me the exact same thing when I asked her... .hang in there DogMan75,

[Cat Familiar]

How I ended my first marriage with a BPD husband: I drew a line in the sand for myself, specifying what behaviors would cause me to call it quits if they ever happened again. To be specific: infidelity or violence.

I told myself that I'd either choose to end it or if I stayed regardless, I was just waiting to die.

When the inevitable behavior recurred, at that moment I ended the relationship. He didn't realize that he'd run out of chances and thought I'd change my mind. But for me, that was the last straw. I was done.

[DogMan75]

So, I may have answered this one for myself, I think, and I think I’m done.

Cat: No, we aren’t married, but I’d hoped we would be, assuming she could show some improvement.

flourdust: She doesn’t talk too much about her DBT group beyond how much one guy dominates the discussion and annoys her. She does talk about some of the skills, but doesn’t seem to implement them, at least, not as far as I can tell. When I ask her why she doesn’t try something like “opposite action” in certain moments, she says she hasn’t gotten to that yet.

Lucky Jim: when she isn’t being inappropriately angry, she is a pleasure to be with. Funny, charming, loving -I’m still amazed at how much I can just love her in a quiet moment on the couch.

Samwize: If she improved, would I stay? Hell, yes. In fact, it wouldn’t even take that much improvement. That’s one thing that’s so frustrating: I don’t need night and day here, just any progress.

That brings me to where I am now, which is: I am out. This therapeutic separation is over a year old, and literally nothing is any better -and some things are worse. I can’t talk to her about anything, even if I set it up as fundamentally inconsequential right from the start.

After a week where I saw her a bit more than usual, and she lashed out at every instance, once immediately following me supporting her through a tough time, and once as I was having a tough time where I really could have used a supportive partner. Instead, I got her kicking me while I was down.

Tried again to talk to her about the dire straights we’re in here, and got the typical deflection and obfuscation I get when she feels all the blame is on her.

True to form, she only got suddenly and frantically apologetic when I got up to leave, even though she waved off my repeated warnings that that was exactly what was going to happen if she couldn’t be more productive.

I do love her to death, she is the love of my life, but at this point, I really have done all I can from my end of things. My choices are now accept this as it is, or don’t. Well... .I don’t. I can’t live like this.

She asked me “Why now?” and I said, “Because I’m all out of patience and hope.”

I told her if she ever gets her (ahem) “act” (don’t edit my language, bpdfamily) together and can really accept, take responsibility for, and effectively change her behavior, to give me a call, be that in six months or a year. In the absence of that however, as we are now, I think no contact is prudent. Otherwise, it’s just the same limbo we’ve been living in for a year.

It’s so sad, and such a waste, but that’s just the way it is. Hope can only take you so far. It’s not her fault she’s ill, but if she knows she’s ill, knows how it’s destroying our relationship and doesn’t do her part to get better, well, that’s a different story.

I really do love her so much. I have from the very beginning, and I always will. So sad to think that even this much love isn’t enough. Such a waste.

[SamwizeGamgee]

There you are then.  Sometimes these message boards are good because we find ourselves writing out our feelings and they seem much clearer in print as we read them back. 
You must find yourself in a difficult spot since you still love her and yet have reached the point of saying “enough.”   However, maybe that voice is strong enough reason for you to split now.  Rip the bandaid off as they say. 

One thought I had as you wrote of hope.  Brene Brown writes that hope comes from power, crediting ML King.  If we don’t have the power to change the relationship, then we have no hope to do so.  And, maybe now you don’t have the power.

I hear you and I get it.  Good luck my friend.