extreme black&white thinking is making me really tired

[an-cat-dubh]

Hi everyone,

I've been in a relationship with a man with BPD for roughly a year. Things are very good between us, we have good communication, and though he split on me once when I decided not to move in with him and we had one rough week, he generally sees me in a very positive light.

However, it seems I'm the only person who escapes his splitting (well, not really, since I guess I'm all white). We have the same colleagues and he has problems with some of them, with whom I personally get along. They think he's too extreme and incapable of compromise (which is true), and it creates problems at work. He takes this as an extreme rejection and thinks they are crazy and horrible people. He is miserable and though he tries to hide it from me not to be a burden, it's obvious. He thinks everyone else is "a nazi" and that there's a personal witch hunt against him.

I've talked to those people and they don't hate him or anything, they just think he's sometimes hard to live with. Things could get better and normal if only he didn't think this way and talked to them about the few issues.

He's like this with everyone, whenever something goes against his value system or when he feels any slight rejection. I'm becoming very tired of it. I hate conflict and it's really taxing hearing him tear everyone else apart verbally all the time. I've tried to make him realise that he's paranoid (not in these words) but he just can't see it. I see myself becoming mentally and emotionally exhausted as I'm always in the midst of this.

I've told him I think he has BPD and he agrees with the diagnosis but seems uncomfortable accepting the fact that's he's "sick". He sees it as his personality and doesn't see why he should become "a robot" like everyone else. I wish he could go to therapy but he's clearly not ready since in his head he's a victim. Yesterday I told him again that I think therapy would help him be less miserable and teach him how not to be quite as overwhelmed by his emotions, since it's obvious he's the first victim of himself. I also told him we could start doing mindfulness together as I'm interested in it too. I cried like a lunatic before that because I was at the end of my tether, and it made him realise it's serious. He says he's scared of losing me now and sees there is a problem but I'm not sure he still quite makes the connection. I'm also scared of telling him straight: "you're paranoid" or any such thing because he might explode.

Any help in what I could do to make him see what he is doing, or in helping me not be so involved, would be appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[pearlsw]

Hi an-cat-dubh,

It sounds like you are interested in improving the relationship, and what's more you have made some first steps in this direction. What I want to suggest is instead of focusing on how he "should" think about his possible BPD I would consider giving up putting so much emphasis on that point. You say he agrees with the diagnosis, and I imagine he may even waver on this at times, but he's got it. He says he recognizes it and that is a lot. So, just let that be. That is something to build on, but not dwell on.

Do you have something in mind in terms of mindfulness specifically? Meditation? Or going directly, and deeper into buddhism itself or... .? I know that I have worked a lot with helping my partner "see" his thoughts. I have some words I repeat to him about this, to illustrate this and he is very open to this reminder when I bring it up. I think you may also find that working with the tools around Validation - when and how to do it and how to not validate the invalid you may find a way to deal with some of the paranoia he is expressing.

I think it is also helpful for you to do some work on adjusting your thinking around these issues. I think it is very important to do what you can to be a "team" about how you are facing these issues when that is possible, and it sounds possible as you've described your relationship. Perhaps making the illness into an impersonal thing rather than trying to "fix" him and his issues is a way to reframe this.

There is a lot in your message here, but I'll stop now adding in my two cents and I invite others to join us here in this discussion and sharing their insights, concerns, and wisdom.

wishing you the best, pearlsw.

[ArleighBurke]

Have you read about, and use, Validation?

He may not be able to change his emotions. He may always feel that sting when things rub him the wrong way. Therepy may be able to change his reaction (possibly), but you listening with VALIDATION should be able to reduce his outbursts and at least make YOU feel better.

There is a lot of information on the side bar ->>   about Validation. In essense, you are trying to understand what he feels. Not agree with it, but understand it. Remembering that he cannot control his emotions, he just probably needs some help to process them.  And coupled with Validation is the SET method of conversation.

Have a read... .

[an-cat-dubh]

thank you both for your answers!

I'm very empathetic (too much so) and up to now I think I used a lot of validation, and this way I sometimes even got him to feel safe & accepted enough to start seeing things from the other point of view after calming down (a bit, and temporarily. A fortnight later he's generally back to his old anger) - which is probably why he still idealises me.

The problem is that it's exhausting! It's exhausting knowing he's totally paranoid and not being able to tell him . I've read about JADE and now understand it doesn't work. Last week I tried to show him people actually like him, for some of them, or are simply neutral, and it made him really mad. I understand now I was probably JADEing and he felt I was telling him he was wrong to feel what he was feeling.

I think that's what I'm wondering:

how to not validate the invalid you may find a way to deal with some of the paranoia he is expressing.

I find it hard to use validation for his feelings but not his thoughts. How to validate his feeling but show him that I don't share his conclusions about what caused them, or that people are against him. I'm looking into the SET method, thank you ArleighBurke. The truth part is the hard one...

The other thing is that I sometimes start being angry at the people who make him angry, even though there is nothing wrong with them. He's not actively trying to cut me off people and even tells me he's sorry I'm caught up in all this, but it's hard for me emotionally to not start being resentful of either one party.

I love him but honestly I can't imagine a future with him in these conditions. I've read somewhere that pwBPD have the emotional maturity of a 2 year old and it's really what it feels like. From what I read here I don't think he can change, and he doesn't want to, and I can't force him. And if I leave him after a while he'll probably think I'm a crazy person like all the others.

I've also looking into codependency and feel I'm definitely codependent, so I'm gonna try to work on that. I feel I'm starting to be angry at him for putting me through this and maybe by taking my distances and setting boundaries my resentment will die down as I take better care of myself and not give in to all his demands ie being there for him 24/7 to console him for hours when he's mad about people who have done nothing wrong. But I'm afraid he's going to resent this and try to pull me back in. I don't know.

[an-cat-dubh]

sorry about grammar and weird non-English sounding turns of phrase, I didn't double check.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I believe you're on a good path. I agree with the others' comments as well.

Being with someone who is BPD is exhausting. I highly recommend taking care of yourself. I'm also codependent and have been pretty much all of my life. I'm seeing a wonderful trauma therapist who is helping me with my codependency. I highly recommend the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie as well as a good therapist.

I understand that you want to help him as much as you can. You can only do so much, mostly with trying to support him and what he wants to do about it (if anything). It really is up to him as to whether he wants to work on his issues or not.

I think that some of your anger may be frustration. With my ex, I tried really hard to explain and point things out to him but it just made things worse. It felt like we spoke different languages and we truly were from different planets. It can be very frustrating to deal with. I almost constantly have to remind myself that his world is very different from mine. He sees things very differently and we may never agree on a lot of things.  It helps me with my anger and frustration. It took time for me to see that. I also believe BPD isn't really a sickness. It's a personality thing. I think their brains may truly be wired differently than ours. I think that if they know they have BPD and want to work on it, they can work to find better coping mechanisms to deal with the differences in people's realities. That's my opinion, though.

I believe that my ex has deep-rooted feelings of shame and lashes out in anger at me whenever these feelings were triggered. My ex seems super paranoid too. I've learned to just leave that one alone because questioning his thoughts and feelings can quickly trigger an outburst. Lately I've found that when I try to validate his feelings and point of view (such as "I can see where you're coming from on this", it quickly de-escalates his outbursts and sometimes he discards the conversation. I don't give him any more ammo to lash out at me. Even when I asked him a simple question to clarify his question to me, he seemed to take it as a personal assault on him. I kid you not! I sincerely asked him "why does that bother you so much?" because I really wanted to know. He went into a rage and said I was being mean to him. That one still boggles me from time to time. Once I stopped managing his emotions, our marriage quickly disintegrated. That doesn't mean it'll happen to you, though. We were together for close to twenty years and I realized later that he has profound abandonment issues that he isn't willing to deal with. That's a long story.

Anyway, it can take time and practice to figure out how to validate someone's feelings and such and being okay with yourself. Meaning, I may not agree with you on an issue but whatever you are feeling is okay because feelings are never "wrong". I don't need you to be okay for me to be okay. It's like someone seeking external validation. If we are truly okay with who we are inside, then it doesn't hurt us when someone else challenges that or has a different opinion on something. I hope this makes sense.

Maybe try to work on figuring out why you feel angry towards the other people. I've learned that anger can come from unmet expectations. Do you feel they should be doing something they aren't doing? If so, why? Maybe try to reflect on what you were thinking, feeling, believing during those times you feel angry towards them? Maybe it's not really them you're angry with. These are just some thoughts I have. I hope I'm not rambling and it makes some sense.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey an-cat, you seem quite perceptive and knowledgeable about BPD, which is helpful.  Of course it's exhausting, as I-am-the-fire notes, to be in a BPD r/s, in part because one is always waiting for the other shoe to drop.  Most Nons in a BPD r/s have codependent tendencies, because you sort of have to be a caretaker in order to hang out w/someone suffering from BPD.  So don't worry, you have plenty of company.  If I may suggest something, it would be to remove yourself from the equation at work and let the chips fall concerning your SO.  You can't "fix" him or force others to see him in a certain way.  Instead, I suggest you focus on yourself and your needs.  What would you like to see happen?  What are your gut feelings about the r/s?

LuckyJim

[ArleighBurke]

Not to go off-topic, but... .

I_Am_The_Fire said:

I sincerely asked him "why does that bother you so much?" because I really wanted to know. He went into a rage and said I was being mean to him. That one still boggles me from time to time.

Your question to him implies that you don't understand, which implies that YOU (and other people) wouldn't be as bothered, which implies that him being bothered isn't "normal", which he takes as you being mean to him.

Perhaps a better question would be: I can see that bothered you a lot. What did it make you feel?

[an-cat-dubh]

If I may suggest something, it would be to remove yourself from the equation at work and let the chips fall concerning your SO.  You can't "fix" him or force others to see him in a certain way.  Instead, I suggest you focus on yourself and your needs.  What would you like to see happen?  What are your gut feelings about the r/s?

Yes, I've decided to let him face the consequences of his actions instead of sheltering him. I've given up on trying to change him, and with this comes the will to let him fail and take care of myself more. Maybe if he fails enough he will start seeing he is part of the problem, though I'm now realising chances are slim since he's had relationship problems with people for years and still doesn't think he could be the common denominator. Which is really what makes me want to give up on the whole thing.

My gut feeling is a bad one. I feel like sooner or later I'll go into burnout and leave him, and the break up will be horrible. The only hope I have is that I work on my codependency enough that I become healthy enough for myself - meeting my own needs in a way I realise I have slowly but surely stopped doing as I spend my energy on him - to not get into this burnout.

That means saying no to him though, for example when he wants to spend a lot of time with me and I need time for work or more importantly, time alone with myself. And I'm worried becoming more independant will create drama as he feels I am abandonning him or no longer loving him as much. I'm not sure.

I think that some of your anger may be frustration. With my ex, I tried really hard to explain and point things out to him but it just made things worse. It felt like we spoke different languages and we truly were from different planets. It can be very frustrating to deal with. I almost constantly have to remind myself that his world is very different from mine.

I believe that my ex has deep-rooted feelings of shame and lashes out in anger at me whenever these feelings were triggered. My ex seems super paranoid too. I've learned to just leave that one alone because questioning his thoughts and feelings can quickly trigger an outburst. Lately I've found that when I try to validate his feelings and point of view (such as "I can see where you're coming from on this", it quickly de-escalates his outbursts and sometimes he discards the conversation. I don't give him any more ammo to lash out at me. Even when I asked him a simple question to clarify his question to me, he seemed to take it as a personal assault on him. I kid you not! I sincerely asked him "why does that bother you so much?" because I really wanted to know. He went into a rage and said I was being mean to him. That one still boggles me from time to time.

I feel like you're describing my r/s, . It's happened a couple of times that he's been extremely upset by things I said that were not meant to be attacks at all (I understand why better now, in context). Sometimes (not too often fortunately) he also speaks to me quite rudely/aggressively because he's in a bad mood, and when I respond in a hurt/vexed manner he thinks I'm attacking him for no reason and later tells me he feels unsafe talking to me because I'm aggressive. I'm the most conflict-avoidant person on the planet for god's sake. He can never agree that whatever he first said was not nice. I'm the problem. It's extremely irritating! I understand now why he paints his ex as a crazy harpy. Idk if it's projection or what.

If we are truly okay with who we are inside, then it doesn't hurt us when someone else challenges that or has a different opinion on something. I hope this makes sense.

I try to keep in mind that he's the one who suffers most, and that he can't help his emotions. Often it's enough to dissolve my frustration but not always, when the truth is flashing in bright letters and only he cannot see it. I guess I'm not accepting him as he is, which is something he has complained about. Maybe I'm just not capable of staying in a r/s with a pwBPD.

Maybe try to work on figuring out why you feel angry towards the other people. I've learned that anger can come from unmet expectations. Do you feel they should be doing something they aren't doing? If so, why? Maybe try to reflect on what you were thinking, feeling, believing during those times you feel angry towards them? Maybe it's not really them you're angry with. These are just some thoughts I have. I hope I'm not rambling and it makes some sense.

I think I am/was angry at them because it's easier than being angry at my partner. Wishing they made efforts to understand him, but they don't know about BPD or anything so it's not realistic to expect much of them.

[Lucky Jim]

That means saying no to him though, for example when he wants to spend a lot of time with me and I need time for work or more importantly, time alone with myself. And I'm worried becoming more independant will create drama as he feels I am abandonning him or no longer loving him as much. I'm not sure.

Hey an-cat, Suggest you work on your boundaries and take the time you need by yourself to recharge.  I neglected myself in my BPD marriage, for the reasons you outline, to the point that there was nothing left in my tank, so-to-speak.  I crash landed, which was not fun.  Yes, it probably will create drama if you let it.  In my view, one's SO becoming more independent poses no threat at all in a healthy r/s.

LJ

[an-cat-dubh]

Hey an-cat, Suggest you work on your boundaries and take the time you need by yourself to recharge.  I neglected myself in my BPD marriage, for the reasons you outline, to the point that there was nothing left in my tank, so-to-speak.  I crash landed, which was not fun.  Yes, it probably will create drama if you let it.  In my view, one's SO becoming more independent poses no threat at all in a healthy r/s.

right. You're right. And here I clearly am guilty because of my codependency issues (ie I tell myself I will be more assertive and then worry about him even when he's not contacting me... .I realise I do have problems too haha). I'm going to work on this and if I use SET or something I think I can hopefully avoid too much drama. He's told me himself I need to set more time for my own work so I think he can understand!

I'm listening to "stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist". Hopefully it helps me help myself.

We also talked today and decided to use a key word for when something the other say is hurtful and they don't realise - instead of replying in kind. He's acknowledged that he sometimes hurts me verbally 1. without meaning to or 2. when he is in a bad mood (so he does recognise that he sometimes lashes out when I've done nothing wrong which gives me hope. Also hope that he can one day realise he does it to others too, because he gets triggered by others way more than by me.)

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Your question to him implies that you don't understand, which implies that YOU (and other people) wouldn't be as bothered, which implies that him being bothered isn't "normal", which he takes as you being mean to him.

Perhaps a better question would be: I can see that bothered you a lot. What did it make you feel?

That makes sense. Thanks!

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Sometimes (not too often fortunately) he also speaks to me quite rudely/aggressively because he's in a bad mood, and when I respond in a hurt/vexed manner he thinks I'm attacking him for no reason and later tells me he feels unsafe talking to me because I'm aggressive. I'm the most conflict-avoidant person on the planet for god's sake. He can never agree that whatever he first said was not nice. I'm the problem. It's extremely irritating! I understand now why he paints his ex as a crazy harpy. Idk if it's projection or what.

It could very well be projection. My ex did that to me as well. I agree how irritating it is. It is a tough one to deal with, though. From what I've read, this is where it really helps to know yourself. You know you avoid conflict. Me too! I'm probably right next to you as the most conflict-avoidant person on the planet.    So it may help to ask yourself "what is really going on here?" Much like my 5 year old child, sometimes I think my ex uses the wrong words to express how he feels.

Maybe he doesn't realize (or want to admit to himself) that his behavior is hurtful. I'm guessing it may bring up feelings of shame to admit something like that and he probably wants to avoid that at all costs. It's much easier to push it on to us than for them to deal with their own hurt in a more constructive healthy way. I've learned to not even try to argue or discuss things like this with my ex. It just added fuel to the fire and made it worse. I had to accept that I know me better than anyone else. I would then just say "I disagree" and walk away. I learned the hard way that he had also already made up his mind to what was "true" and anything I said that was different meant I was lying. That is aggravating as well. Basically, I had to disengage and walk away from it or it would just get worse.

In your case, maybe it would help to basically ignore the projection and say something like "It sounds like you had a bad day or something is bothering you. Do you want to talk about it?" or something to figure out what is really going on. Then maybe later you'd be able to let him know that when he does or says "x" that it hurts your feelings. Or start with "I feel hurt when you do x" or something that hopefully doesn't put him on the defensive and make him feel like he's being blamed or attacked. Sometimes I've had to approach my ex similar to how I'd approach my 5 year old about her behavior hopefully without sounding or being condescending. It's not easy but it helps me with my anger at times. I realized I had expected him to act like a normal adult in a lot of situations and now I know in some ways he isn't able to. It's like he is emotionally stuck in his adolescent years and didn't mature emotionally.  These are all just thoughts and I hope at least some of it helps. You know him better than we do and just because it didn't work with my ex doesn't mean it wouldn't work in your case.

I think the "keyword" idea is a good one too. It also sounds like he does realize his behavior towards you is hurtful at times. That is a good sign, IMO. I agree with the others too. Working on your boundaries and consistently enforcing them is very important.  It sounds like you have some good reasons to hope you both can work through this. Mine didn't work out and that's okay. I really do hope yours works out.